I still can't understand why americans still tolerate tip culture.
We don't have mandatory tips in Europe and still have people working at McDonald's or similar restaurants : In France, it's even one of the biggest employer of the country.
Where I live we pay for the "service", however this is only on restaurants with waiters, you can choose not to but I've never had a problem with tipping a waiter. Now tipping on an automated transaction? Yeah nah
Because in some places it's the only way for the staff to make livable wages. If our store didn't allow tips I'd be missing 10 - 20% of the pay I get, and with the situation I'm in, everything helps.
And while I would love for tips to go away, and for our minimum wage to reflect the reality of our economy, that doesn't seem to be happening nearly fast enough, or in some places, at all.
I see accepting that is part of 'tolerating tipping culture'. Indeed, the system as it is now would not realistically allow for tipping to be obliterated. But just saying "it doesn't work, for this and that reason..." and then continuing the status quo, will not change anything.
You've seen what happens in France when the workers are unhappy. What America needs, first and foremost, is powerfull unions, make the minimal wage reflect a decent living wage at least, make the waiters wage an acceptable wage, and then abolish tipping. Accepting the status quo is tolerating it.
I'm in a store that would quite literally shut down if the owner was forced to raise the wages. That cock would rather cut the losses instead of provide something decent for his staff. I have a very schedule at the moment, my car broke down, I live in butt fuck nowhere, and I work as much as I can before I have to rest and focus on things at home, the job isn't too hard but the one miscommunication here is that I'm "accepting" tipping being the norm.
Fuck no, I hate it just like everybody else, but holy shit passing over the fact that these tips are some peoples life lines is a joke.
Also while unionizing is great and fantastic, it is so hard to pull off in the US, especially if you work at a chain restaurant.
You can say that unions are the solution, and yes they are, in the long term, but to seriously go for making one requires strikes and protests that a lot of the lower earning public cannot afford to do. Maybe in the next 3 - 5 years? But definitely not soon.
I do see society changing though, A lot of people are just opting out of traditional employment entirely, either doing side hustles or my states favorite drug trading business. The businesses are hurting, just not enough to care.
I can't say for all of Europe, but at least in France it's simply included in the bill at most restaurants. Around 15%. It's not that different in the end. Just easier to forget about it as the prices on the menu are service included.
For restaurants at least. Not talking about fast foods.
Source:
Les serveurs reçoivent un salaire décent et ne dépendent pas des pourboires, et les cafés et restaurants sont tenus par la loi d'inclure des frais de service (personnel et les couverts pour un montant généralement 15 %) sur la facture depuis 1984
Okay, let me rephrase then, it's not that different for the customer. You have to pay for it, it's included in your bill...
OP said we don't have mandatory tips in France. We literally do, they are including in the bill. They are not called tips but service charge, but that's the same thing considering tips are in fact service charge in the US. But yeah sure they don't have to ask for it.
Not going to happen as long as tipping culture persists.
If patrons stopped tipping, and restaurant staff stopped working until a living wage is paid to them, what options do restaurant owners have? They'll have to accommodate or close their doors.
Either way is better for everyone, since a business that can't pay their employees isn't a viable business anyway.
I had no idea until recently that coffee shops are allowed to pay tipped wages instead of regular minimum wage. Right now, I am reading up on my state (Florida)'s minimum wage laws, and apparently any employee who receives tips can be considered a tipped employee, meaning if your workplace has a square POS, congrats, they are allowed to pay you $5.44/hr! The tip credit explanation is also absolutely blowing my mind with a combination of confusion and corporate greed. The fact that there is an under-20 minimum wage of $4.25/hr is absolutely mind-boggling. I could MAYBE understand this for people under 18, but people from 18-20 are adults and plenty of them have already moved out of their parents' homes. How is this okay?!?
Which leads to a more ridiculous expectation that customers should know local labor laws, and then start asking employees about their wages to determine if we should tip them or not. Its really frustrating, and I just wish people paid for labor instead of playing on our emotions.
It’s absolute BS that the “tipped” minimum wage is lower than for everyone else. Tipping is supposed to reward you for excellent service, not subsidize the fucking company
The problem with tipping culture is that it works.
I read an article the other day about airlines moving toward cheaper air fares, but charging more and more fees for basic things that should be part of the air fare. That trend is accelerating because customers reward it, period.
People only look at the base price of things, and shop around the best base price. Mentally, humans are mostly awful at factoring in extras and comparing one place's apples to another place's oranges. The company with the lower base price wins, and shifting prices over toward fees and extras doesn't seem to hurt them as much as just including those costs in the base price does.
Same story with tipping. If a Moe's burrito costs $10 but you're asked to leave a $2 tip, while a Joe's burrito simply costs $12, then I'm pretty sure the average consumer is only going to look at that $10 vs. $12 comparison and favor Moe's. It's dumb. It's awful. We all say on social media and chat forums that we don't think that way. But most of us kinda sorta DO, unfortunately.
The result is that generous people end up accommodating the increased tip culture, while less generous people just stop tipping altogether. So instead of employer paying their workers fairly, and spreading the costs among their customers fairly... we get an awful system where the employers still make the same profit, but the workers and customers are negatively impacted. For the employees, the dignity of honest work erodes, as they shift toward being part worker and part panhandler. For the customers, generosity is punished and a selfish mindset is rewarded. It's an extremely toxic cultural trend, all around.
I don't know what the solutions are. I fear that there really IS no solution other than changes to law and regulation, but our culture is too fragmented and government too broken for that.
Well said. Such huge culture shifts are hard because of the pain involved in the transition. On the Other side we have employees being paid fairly and predictably and customers not being punished for their generosity. But the in-between will be employees being paid less but not earning via tips which just keeps the status quo.
I only tip at full service restaurants, barber shops, and for specialized full services that I want prompt responses (bars, hotels, rideshares).
Convenience stores, fast food, self service kiosks, medical services, oil changes, I'm not tipping you for doing a low skilled task or something insurance covers.
I'm an American who has lived abroad for over a decade now. I'm amazed at how stuff has changed. When you don't go back all that often it really hits you
If tipping culture dies because of this and workers are actually honestly compensated that would be a good thing.
I tried to do grocery shopping at instacart recently.
The prices looked good, I spent some time making a bigger basket(around 100$) and went to checkout. Then I found out that they charge service fee about 13$, delivery fee 4.50$, heavy fee and at the very end they also added tax. My 100$ shopping was now over 120$ but then they asked me to tip the driver and options were 10% or 20%. I tried to enter custom amount but was discouraged with a scary prompt saying that my driver will see the tip and that tips under 15% are highly discouraged as my order might be deprioritised... so all those service fees, delivery fees and heavy fees are just used to run the website?! But actually paying your own employees? Nooo... that's up to you, kind stranger on the internet! Please, be generous (we are tired to look for another poor bastard every two weeks or so)!
Yeah, whenever I see a fast food restaurant ask for tips before I receive my food, I give them nothing. Is this a threat? Will my food have boogers in it if I don't tip?
traditional service industry where their employer pays them $2/hr. YES, but I wish your employer would just pay you. I'm still tipping not going to punish their employer for that but seriously try not to even go to these places anymore.
Other traditional services industries, barbor, nail salon,etc. Yes as appreciation. They personally took care of me so yeah.
Baristas, it any other ipad station. NO. They are paid a standard wage. I might drop my change in a tip jar every now and then when paying cash but that's it.
Food trucks and other independently owned stores. Generally No. Food trucks are independently owned and not service industry. If they need more money charge more for the food.
Even for point 1 it's just wrong. They should not work there for that wage and if the business needs to charge more money to pay them more then charge more money.
Relying on tips for worker pay not only shifts the responsibility for paying the employees away from employer to the customer but also makes employees getting paid optional (depending on how a random person that walked in feels).
I always ask the person helping me if they actually get the tip money when using some kind of kiosk. A ridiculous number of places "tip out" not only to cooks, but to managers and owners.
If I have cash and I think they deserve a tip, I will give them the cash directly and tell them to pocket it.
Yes! Just do this! I promise you seeing more expensive prices on the menu will annoy me FAR less than getting the check and seeing a surprise 18% "service fee."
I’m American but lived in Japan for a couple of years. I was so shocked by the amazing customer service the Japanese workers gave me but never asked or expected a tip.
I was so confused coming back here and seeing all of stores implementing an option to tip and I’m trying to figure out… for what? Most of the workers hardly acknowledge me when I’m there and it feels as if I’m bothering them coming to order something, and then they turn the iPad around asking for a tip.
I always say it’s shocking what us Americans are accustomed to here in the US, and those that have never been outside of the country would never know these things. I also visited Australia for a bit and noticed no one asked or expected a tip as well.
Glad I had the opportunity to see how other countries do things outside the US 🙂
I once asked to have an automatic tip removed from my order at the cheese bar in Camden and they seemed ready to bite my nose off. Supposed to be a place that knows a bit about labour history, Camden. Not going back, the food was late and it all came at different times.
As a terrible seppo immigrant I feel like I'm being chased by the terrible seppo shit I ran away from, sometimes.
I think thats more to do with Japanese culture than anything. Staff at even convenience stores were super nice and helpful when I stayed in Japan. But here people don't really care that much. You cant expect a culture of people to change. Id much rather permanently live in Japan if my work and family didnt tie me down.
Oh I definitely agree. The Japanese were taught at a young age to show respect to others and to do your best no matter how small or insignificant the job may seem to others. At this point, it is what it is here in the US, I just expect it now. It was just more of a reverse culture shock coming back here after living in Japan for a few years.
I’ve also got my mind set on moving back and staying in Japan permanently when I get the chance.
One time at the Starbucks drive thru, waiting several minutes for a cold brew, only a cold brew, I was irritated to see a very obvious tip cup on the drive through. After waiting much longer than it should have taken to pour a cold brew, the guy tried to solicit a tip on my card... seriously....It is absolutely irritating to have them not only provide slow service but then aggressively demand a tip for shitty service. I'll tip when it's appropriate, bartenders, waiters (20+%) and straight food delivery (fuck Uber eats, door dash etc, I won't pay 50.00 for 30.00 in food and then tip, that's stupid, so I don't use it.)
Edit(I don't use the food delivery services, I am not going to stiff their folks delivering food. )
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