U.N. report: ‘Convincing’ information Hamas raped, tortured hostages

A team of United Nations experts tasked with gathering information on sexual violence linked to Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel found “reasonable grounds to believe” that some victims were sexually assaulted, including rape and gang rape, according to a U.N. report released Monday.

“In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed,” a press release announcing the report’s findings said. “The mission team also found a pattern of victims, mostly women, found fully or partially naked, bound, and shot across multiple locations.”

The 23-page report said the team also found “clear and convincing information” that some of the women and children taken back to Gaza that day by Hamas as hostages were subjected to “rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.” There were “reasonable grounds to believe,” it said, “that this violence may be ongoing.”

sin_free_for_00_days,

Oh no, all those people who weren’t subscribed to the NYT times but said,“That’s it! I’m cancelling my subscription!” anyway are really going to have to rethink their imaginary subscription.

harderian729,

Meds.

avidamoeba,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

I’d believe it. Doesn’t excuse the 30000+ deaths.

MeanEYE,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Though those deaths are on booth sides’ hands. Not just IDF.

avidamoeba, (edited )
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

If you mean the Palestinian deaths, I could’ve bought that argument when they were 2K, 5K maybe 10K. When there was some semblance of proportionality. When we are where we are, when hunger is used as a weapon for so long… I can’t personally. At this point I don’t think anything could wash the Israelis’ hands. What’s worse, the people who remain alive, the images of emaciated kids with missing limbs that will be broadcast worldwide once the media blockade loosens will keep reminding the whole world what went down. Parallels will be drawn to Nazi Germany, because it will look similar, even if the scale and details are different. I don’t think any amount of human shields arguments can recover them from this. Personally I think this shit show is gonna break Israeli society long term.

Oh and the political blowback can’t be contained to the region because there are Palestinian immigrants all over the world and many if not most have lost family and they won’t stay silent, just like Jews didn’t stay silent. You can’t argue them into accepting that loss just like you can’t argue Jews into accepting theirs. Except the numbers are way larger on one side. Expect Palestinian political activism across the West to continue and perhaps intensify as the full scale of death comes to light over the years.

xmunk,

The precisely correct take.

Netanyahu and Hamas are both awful but I really feel for the civilians on both sides that are caught up in this.

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Aside from I. Oct 7th itself, are there substantial casualties to Israeli civilians?

We can ignore casualties caused by the IDF, here.

boredtortoise,

Any innocent life lost or harm caused is a substantial thing.

FuglyDuck, (edited )
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

So that’s a no.

It’s rather disengenous to suggest “both sides” in defense of a genocide.

Was oct 7 a terrorist attack? Absolutely. But you’re acting like this war is an even match. It’s not. It is a genocide.

boredtortoise, (edited )

Sorry but I’m not the one you’ve meant to reply to. I just added a comment and have no such views you present

The situation is definitely asymmetrical and qualifies as a genocide. That’s not even something to be unsure of

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

No. I meant reply to you. I asked a question (about Israeli citizens outside of Oct 7), you responded with something interpreted as “both sides.”

Of course, all life is important. At the moment, and the past five months, it’s been entirely one-sided.

boredtortoise, (edited )

No. The information I added wasn’t to be interpreted in any such way, it was not charged with “both sides” or even sympathies towards fascist Israel, but thank you for elaborating on your process.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I think his point is that only one side is currently actively being slaughtered. Which makes the sympathy for both sides right now rather pointless.

boredtortoise,

Yes. Maybe they just hopped too quickly to conclusions that sympathies were the topic

xmunk,

There’s a lot of history of terrorism from both sides - Netanyahu is clearly more in the wrong here but Hamas are still a bunch of assholes. On both sides civilians are suffering from this war - Palestinians are certainly suffering more, but even Isreali civilians are suffering from family members lost and the ethical turpitude of living in a genocidal state when most of them do not want their state to be enacting a genocide.

I’m not saying that both sides are suffering equally, I’m saying that civilians on both sides are suffering… and their governments have no desire to lessen any of that suffering.

Grimy,

I think it’s insulting to say what the Palestinians are going through is comparable to the Israel population having to feel bad about being the villains.

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

So outside of Oct 7th itself,

Has there been substantial numbers of Israeli citizens being harmed?

Yes? Or no?

Was Oct 7th a terrorist attack? Does anyone contend otherwise. And yes, I understand how losing loved ones to terrorism is hard.

But I find it patently ridiculous that I’m expected to sympathize with a nominally democratic nation when their leaders go full fascist; when they were elected with the full knowledge that they’re fully fascist.

Sorry. But as a whole, they voted for that.

This is in direct comparison to the fact that the majority of people who are dying in Gaza, weren’t even around to vote the last time there was an election there.

Miaou,

Hamas was too voted into power. Do you believe Palestinians deserve their fate then?

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

The last election in Palestine was in 2006.

Over half the Palestinians that are alive today were not alive then. Even then; less than half the voters voted for Hamas- they used a plurality system and Hamas had ~40% of the votes.

Further, Hamas was given/allowed funding by Israeli leaders (Netanyahu in particular saw to it) specifically to destabilize any Palestinian state.

So, no. I wouldn’t describe the government in Gaza as “democratic”; when the last election in Israel was about a prior to Oct 7’s attack.

DarkGamer,
DarkGamer avatar

If only there were a magical form of warfare that only killed intended targets with zero collateral damage....

DolphinMath,

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QuestioningEspecialy,
QuestioningEspecialy avatar

thanks

bartolomeo,

Despite concerted efforts to encourage them to come forward, the mission team was not able to interview any of these survivors/victims

This is a report about information gathered from Israeli sources, including the IDF.

MeanEYE,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Who did you expect to come forward? Rapists?

Dasus,

Victims or evidence, perhaps?

Are you really pretending you don’t see the bias in trying to use UN as a source of information that’s actually just second hand zionist bullshit.

That is not to say Hamas is innocent of rape and torture,

The point being that this is clearly Israeli PR, so they can try loaning the UN’s credibility and pretend like hostages getting raped excuses the genocide they’re doing on Palestinians (Palestine=//=Hamas).

You can find accusations of rape on both sides, ofc.

Israel/oPt: UN experts appalled by reported human rights violations against Palestinian women and girls

And if we’re going by what the UN says, the UN is also of the mind Israel is committing war crimes and is mandated by the ICJ to take actions against the genocide and to condemn and punish any genocidal rhetoric. (Such as“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” said by the Israeli “defense” minister.)

hrw.org/…/israel-not-complying-world-court-order-…

un.org/…/gaza-is-running-out-of-time-un-experts-w…

ohchr.org/…/gaza-un-experts-call-international-co…

DolphinMath,

This is a report from a UN team that flew to Israel and made a comprehensive assessment of all the evidence. I’ll also state the obvious, the UN team would can’t interview dead victims of rape.

If you’re going to post that kind of nonsensical statement, at least read the executive summary of the report.

bartolomeo,

nonsensical statement

Inability to distinguish facts from nonsensical statements, check.

Ilovethebomb,

Everyone involved in this conflict is awful in different ways. Doesn’t surprise me at all.

GONADS125,

Absolutely. I cannot fathom how people can justify Hamas’ terrorism or Isreal’s genocide.

I’ve condemned both groups since the beginning and support only the innocent civilians being starved, tortured, and slaughtered.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Initially they hostages said they were not raped. Then slowly they started saying they had to use psychological warfare to not be raped, and now they are raped. Very dynamic stories.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIMfc1y59mM

This UN report is citing Zaka (40 beheaded babies) as a “credible source,” it is complete propaganda.

New breaking points video debunking this report with an important takeaway:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b9fede28-1f91-4006-8ec9-485c05ba1d40.png

neuropean,

I think it’s important to separate the narrative of the hostages themselves versus the scores of dead bodies left on October 7th, which were the focus of this report. I have been looking for evidence to confirm or refute these allegations for months, and the issues surrounding it can be summarized mainly as stemming from evidence collection.

Due to the active fighting in the area, forensics did not arrive to process the body until days later, leading to a significant loss of forensic evidence as the bodies decayed in the heat for days. Without that, there’s no evidence to indicate exactly what transpired in terms of sexual crimes and why the investigation has gone down its current path.

I don’t know how much of the evidence they’ve collected will be made public, but the descriptions in the linked report are very graphic and leave little doubt that sexual assaults took place.

DolphinMath,

What a load of shit.

That clip is pure propaganda, deceptively edited, and completely out of context… The stories of Chen Almog-Goldstein and her 17 year old daughter Agam have not changed.

If you don’t believe me, try watching the full interview.

vimeo.com/899212136

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Your video is login-blocked but those people were in fact not raped. If anything they are further evidence that no rapes happened.

DER SPIEGEL: Your daughter Agam wrote in an article that she was afraid of being raped. How did you try to protect her?

Goldstein-Almog: Our guards were relatively respectful towards us, but I remember that once one of the men asked Agam to cook with him. I kept going into the kitchen to check on her to make sure nothing was happening.

After that the article derails into some hearsay about anonymous unconfirmed rumors. Strangely the people you are citing have certainly not experienced that.

The UN report being filled with the same claims used by NYT which have been completely debunked does not lend it any credibility either.

DolphinMath, (edited )

Rapes, murders, and acts of violence were absolutely committed by members of Hamas. This is perhaps an uncomfortable truth for you.

Your video is login-blocked It’s not my video (I didn’t upload it) and it’s not “login blocked” in the US. Here is another link that should work regardless.

but those people were in fact not raped. If anything they are further evidence that no rapes happened. Those people meaning Chen Almog-Goldstein and her 17 year old daughter Agam? The ones who in the full length interview said they were not raped, but said other women were? (19:55 in the interview). “Girls, only 19 years old…they went through horrible things. On a personal level… they were abused [sexually] and hurt…”

DER SPIEGEL: Your daughter Agam wrote in an article that she was afraid of being raped. How did you try to protect her?

Goldstein-Almog: Our guards were relatively respectful towards us, but I remember that once one of the men asked Agam to cook with him. I kept going into the kitchen to check on her to make sure nothing was happening.

After that the article derails into some hearsay about anonymous unconfirmed rumors. Strangely the people you are citing have certainly not experienced that.

I think you mean the people you used as evidence by posting a chopped up propaganda clip. I merely linked to the full interview where they did not speak highly of their captors.

Strange how the UN is infallible when they agree with Hamas, but when they don’t it’s “hearsay about anonymous unconfirmed rumors.” /s

The UN report being filled with the same claims used by NYT which have been completely debunked does not lend it any credibility either.

That report has not been “debunked,” despite what you claim, or what The Intercept published about the New York Times.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The video you linked contained zero evidence of anyone being raped. Alongside everything else you claim.

In fact it shows this girl struggling between being gaslit by the IDF which tells her she went trough the Holocaust and her own experiences which boil down to “we were not tortured nor sexually violated in during our captivity”.

The UN report goes out of the window the second they used the Nova festival for their evidence as we factually know that those claims were fake. In the UN report there is also no forensic evidence. Everything hinges on “anonymous witness statements”

Another big difference is that the Palestinian women raped by the IDF themselves claim they were raped. Whereas this current report only quotes “witnesses”.

bigMouthCommie,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

i haven't reviewed the un's claim, only the AP writeup which was pretty thin. all the "evidence" I've subjected myself to is, as you said, hearsay or innuendo.

I had been pretty cavalier, saying it didn't happen, but the headline on this post does give me pause.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Every time one of these reports comes out I check it to make sure I’m not wrong. And every time it’s just a load of horseshit. This is like the 5th time we’re hearing the same allegations without evidence after the last 4 were debunked.

I was called crazy when I said the NYT report looked like a complete fraud three months ago since there was no evidence. Now that report is falling apart the UN comes in to rescue the day with more completely unverified claims.

Maeve,

Oh Jesus. Let me delete my last comment.

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