War a real threat and Europe not ready, warns Poland's Tusk

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has delivered a blunt warning that Europe has entered a “pre-war era” and if Ukraine is defeated by Russia, nobody in Europe will be able to feel safe.

“I don’t want to scare anyone, but war is no longer a concept from the past,” he told European media. “It’s real and it started over two years ago.”

His remarks came as a fresh barrage of Russian missiles targeted Ukraine.

Russia has intensified its bombardment of Ukraine in recent weeks.

Overnight into Friday Ukraine’s air force said it had shot down 58 drones and 26 missiles and Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said energy infrastructure had been damaged in six regions, in the west, centre and east of the country.

avater,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

I think we can handle Russia, nothing to fear from that shitshow of a country

Siegfried,

Russia has always fought wars the same way they are doing now. Its a shitshow? Yes, but they have won many wars this way, and they will eventually win this one unless the EU gets its shit together.

Olap,

Going to call nonsense on the headline: NATO is intact, and Putin wouldn’t dare invade a nato country.

Trump it’s the caveat, but even in that event France and the UK have a nuclear umbrella, and there is a shit load of troops. A war with NATO is unwinnable for Russia for certain.

Ukraine danced with the neutrality devil and lost, just as Belgium on WW1 did, and the NL of WW2. Any country now adjacent to Russia and not in NATO has a choice: risk the neutrality game or side with NATO. I know which I’d be picking.

RecursiveParadox,
@RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure your grasp of the situation in BE in WWI or NL in WWII is …accurate. It’s certainly no longer relevant.

Olap,

If we are on the brink of ww3, which I doubt, then Ukraine is the first casualty it appears. The parallels are easy to draw, but hard to back up certainly as the specifics do differ. But those not aligned will increasingly find themselves subject to pulls in either sphere of influence, which is my main point. Ultimately you could argue this all is a failure of foreign policy for a few governments with Russia being emboldened to invade. Which you could also say of both previous world wars too. To dismiss the comparison is to dismiss history, and those who fail to learn from history…

FarceOfWill,

You’re right about a Russia/NATO war being unwinnable for Russia. Even the current military of Europe alone would be enough to see off Russia.

So, what is he warning us about? I see two (not exclusive) things he could be doing.

Trump winning in America would cause such stress on NATO it would fragment, and even if they kick America out it still looks weak so they want all of Europe to beat the 2% requirement to try and keep trump’s USA in NATO.

Second, he’s warning of war with china. This is where my money is.

Maalus,

Putin wouldn’t dare invade Ukraine, it’s just training, right? They didn’t “dance with neutrality”. They were a former soviet state far east, that gave up its nukes for security guarantees that the US now wipes their ass with. They openly sided with democracy by throwing out a russian puppet - who wasn’t really “neutral”. You barely know the history of the country, yet you try to look like the expert.

Pilferjinx,

I agree. Nobody thought Putin would be stupid enough to invade Ukraine, myself included, but here we are. Putin is not working on the same logic as the rest of the world. Plus, no one is ever going to use nukes on any country that has them in parity, offensively or defensively.

Olap,

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace - here’s the hitlist if you’re Putin. I’m fully aware of Ukraine’s efforts with democracy, but you know who doesn’t care? Anyone on this list not making serious efforts to join NATO is writing their own invasion plan imo

tygerprints,

All of us are in the pre-world War III era and we're gearing up quickly for it. In many ways it's already underway, and we're just now starting to get ready go make it even more massive and global.

Welcome to the 21st century where men have evolved into nothing more than war mongering utter pieces of filthy shit. This is what will be all our legacy, a world scorched into oblivion and not a trace of humanity anywhere left on the planet. Perhaps that's for the best, really.

clark,
@clark@midwest.social avatar

Welcome to the 21st century where men have evolved into nothing more than war mongering utter pieces of filthy shit

They evolved into this many centuries ago. Sad development of the supposedly superior sex.

tygerprints,

I've never understood exactly what makes the male sex supposedly so superior. From what I've seen they are decidedly mediocre as a sex, very egotistical, gun loving, hate-filled, quick to anger, slow witted and quite dirty minded, with brains that make war and other filth. Extraordinarily gutter-type people.

clark,
@clark@midwest.social avatar

I agree. Many of them claim women are dreamers and driven by emotion, but look at all the wars caused by males and the day-to-day competitions they have with each other. Strange.

mean_bean279,

Shit was going pretty good until Russia fucked it all up. Biggest mistake in the last 50 years in Europe was allowing Russia to Annex Crimea. That set a tone that landed us on this path.

A_Random_Idiot, (edited )

who would have thought appeasement wouldnt work when it has, historically, also not worked?

FooBarrington,

When your own political standing is dependent on cheap oil, you won’t endanger it, even for the lives of fellow Europeans or even your own children.

MxM111,
MxM111 avatar

What was the alternative? Invade Crimea with NATO troops?

mean_bean279,

Not NATO necessarily, but trade blockades on Russian ports accessible through European waters, hard sanctions, actual seizing of Russian assets, and potentially coalition troops from various countries with approval from Ukraine. NATO isn’t an offensive pact, only defensive. However those countries could form coalition forces to strike back at Russian military assets in Crimea. Instead we just lightly slapped them on the wrist and said “don’t do that again” and then they straight up murdered civilians and attacked a non-aggressive border nation.

DragonTypeWyvern,

…wikipedia.org/…/2011_military_intervention_in_Li…

Turns out that when there’s capital to gain that the “defensive pact” part is negotiable.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

On 19 March 2011, a multi-state NATO-led coalition began a military intervention in Libya to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973

DragonTypeWyvern,

It’s incredible that you could put NATO led right in your quote and think it proves your point

Shitlibs, lmao

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Just gonna ignore my point to call me a name? Classy

DragonTypeWyvern,

Um, sir, cows are brown sometimes.

NOT_RICK, (edited )
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

If you’re implying my point is a non-sequitur, it’s directly from your source and relevant context. Not a single nation voted against the resolution, both the African Union and the Arab League strongly supported intervention. I think it’s pretty clear in hindsight it was inappropriate for NATO to handle but a one time intervention backed by the UNSC does not a doctrine make. It definitely doesn’t justify Russia invading Ukraine or stealing Crimea.

Edit: just to head off any Yugoslavia bombing rebuttals, UNSC 1203 was also passed with no votes against.

DragonTypeWyvern,

In other words

It’s negotiable when capital is on the line.

Because now the rape is a systemic revenge policy but all of a sudden the oil isn’t paying for everyone’s college and healthcare.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Negotiable when authorized by a UNSC resolution.

Not sure what you’re trying to say about a systemic revenge policy.

DragonTypeWyvern,

So

Negotiable when the capitalist vetos, aka all the modern vetos, agree. Glad we’re on the same page.

aljazeera.com/…/unspeakable-crime-rape-as-a-weapo…

france24.com/…/20120920-muammar-gaddafi-rape-weap…

The primary evidence that Gaddafi was a bad bad dictator in the eyes of public opinion were rape allegations. There wasn’t actually a lot of evidence of this, but there was enough that between that and his creepy women bodyguards/sex slaves that no one really denies it unless they’re on the full on unhinged America Always Lies train.

So whenever people would ask “what makes Gaddafi so bad besides not liking America,” bam, he’s a serial rapist.

The problem is he also did a lot of demonstrably good things for the Libyan people, but you start looking like a borderline Dave Chappelle sketch if you defend that aspect.

The other problem, as outlined in the first article, is that Libya’s systemic rape problem is/was way, way, WAY worse than before. Only now they don’t even get the social benefits they used to.

Which rather puts a point on the issue that NATO and the UN didn’t actually give a shit about Gaddafi being a rapist. That was just an excuse for intervention for the people unsure about bombing another group of brown people with oil.

Hopefully it calms down now that civil war is actually ending, but the problem is they’re an unstable African country with oil across from Europe so.

Good luck.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Those are some sad articles. The whole Libya intervention reminded me of “don’t let a good crisis go to waste”. The west once again naively thought they could be the harbinger of democracy and fanned the flames. I agree that it certainly doesn’t seem better there than it was 15 years ago, regardless of how much contempt I hold for autocrats.

mean_bean279,

That didn’t start as a NATO mission at all. It only became one after the US, UK, Canada and France had already started the mission and Italy wanted NATO to take control otherwise they wouldn’t join in. I don’t know the specifics of how it met criteria for NATO to be involved, but it certainly wasn’t something NATO started. It’s also probably better if NATO generals take over missions that are more western country based as that means all members have a say in what goes on and for how long. They even talk in the article about how the only ground forces were non-NATO troops and were not authorized by NATO.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Sure bro, whatever lets you sleep at night.

mean_bean279,

Sorry bruh, having a more powerful military than Russia definitely helps me sleep at night. 😴 although that’s not saying much since Ukraine was able to kick Russia’s ass…

DragonTypeWyvern,

Are you under the impression either America or Russia needs anything beyond nukes to protect themselves or…

MxM111,
MxM111 avatar

We do all that right now. The impact it is having on Russian aggression? Nearly zero.

mean_bean279,

Oh damn, I forgot if we had done all of that years ago instead of recently we’d still be in the same boat… it’s having an impact. Russia has an unsustainable market, however the US and its allies need to blockade. We don’t do that currently. Start forcing the population there to rethink their support for Putin.

Stop simping for a failed state and leader like Putin.

SteefLem,
@SteefLem@lemmy.world avatar

ppl like tusk saying “ i dont want to scare anyone….” Yet every fucking day all day this shit is on tv, social media, the streets whatever. We dont want to scare anyone… well guess what, no one is scared anymore just fucking tired of warmongeringDICKtator wannabee shitstains. Either pull the fucking trigger and burn everything to the ground (because nobody wants the other guy to have that thing where theres war over, i dont even know what anymore) or shut the fuck up and make shit better.

otp,

“I don’t want to” and “I have to” can coincide

Jax,

men have evolved

This is like a “children of men” type usage of men and not like, gender right?

JimmyBigSausage,

Meanwhile they rely on US but citizens bash US daily on Lemmy 😒

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