Read the title of the thread. While half of Britons can’t name a black historical figure, I bet 99% of Americans can name a Black British historical figure either. I sure can’t.
Ugh George Washington Carver is known by a LOT OF people. Not to mention we have days dedicated to some of the greatest historical black Americans, Martin Luther King Jr for instance. But outside of that nearly every American knows a decent amount.
Even the hateful useless Americans know President Barack Obama.
Others of note when I asked several friends at work (blue collar average Joes and Jills, hotel maintenance):
Booker T Washington Rosa Parks Harriet Tubman Jackie Robinson Malcolm X Hattie McDaniel Fredrick Douglass Oprah Winfrey (yeah I don’t know if this counts but I included it)
Out of the 15 or so people I asked all of them said Obama and MLK Jr.
Lots of Americans know Crispis Attucks, he’s covered in history class. They may not associate him with britian but he was shot years before the revolution so he was a British subject.
How many people could recognize any but the 3-5 most repeatedly displayed historical figures from significantly before their own birth by sight or describe their appearance? I mean in Britain it might be a few more because they are so obsessed with their past monarchs but I doubt it would reach double digits.
I am not talking about school or documentaries or anything like that. I was more thinking there is a lot of media that portrays some of the past monarchs in always the same way, e.g. queen Victoria or king Henry VIII. It is not that the people know what they did or who they really were but their images are plastered in a lot of places in ways that others countries do not.
Most have things like statues or that mountain you mention, things that do not represent things like skin tone or hair colour accurately so unless someone differs ethnically a lot from the rest of the population you would never know those details from those kinds of portrayals of their appearance.
Okay. So half of britons can't name a black british historical figure? So what? That means HALF of britons CAN name a black british historical figure.
Personally I cannot name a single black british historical figure off the top of my head. But I also kind of find it offensive that people want to separate historical figures into "black" and "white" (and maybe others.. who knows?). Do we need to have a catagory for every type and mix? Like ffs.
It’s important because whitewashing history is cultural erasure. Whether or not it’s intentional, the education system is failing to properly educate students on the contributions of all types of people.
It matters to British children of color to see their cultures represented in positive ways and as great contributors to the world they live in.
Being “colorblind” ignores the fact that history was very much not and ignores that racism of the past still impacts so many people today.
It’s not whitewashing if your entire country was white for almost all its history.
Most non whites came over after ww2. It’s not racist to say their just really wasn’t that many historical black people. Forcing a narrative is stupid. This is why so many people have issues with wokeness.
Our kids don’t know enough about history anyway. That could be solved. But it doesn’t mean they should know about some random black guy that did almost nothing of note just because he is black. Plenty of people did almost nothing of note and we don’t know about them.
It matters to British children of color to see their cultures represented in positive ways and as great contributors to the world they live in.
I might agree with this if I wasnt a British child of colour at one point in time. Anecdotally, I never cared about the colour of anyones skin. If you were a British historical figure then you were a British historical figure. As a kid I never cared to put people into different boxes based on race. I'm all for teaching kids about history from people of all walks of life, but I dont feel the need to say "this was a black british person" or "this was a white british person". They are British people.
This bothers me as well. The headline might as well be based on some other survey about sexual orientation or height or hair color. What a strange thing, to further propagate association by race.
It is sad, but this is also because of the generally low level of interest in classical music.
I will say that even within classical music, he does not get the correct level of recognition. Possibly (likely) due to racial issues of the time.
I have noticed more is being done to address this recently, which is a positive. Classical radio stations are featuring his music more and running features discussing his life and music. He was also featured in this year’s proms, which is probably most of the general publics only exposure to classical music.
Whilst I am sympathetic to the overall aim of this, things like this:
She would have expected people to name figures such as Quintus Lollius Urbicus, who became governor of Roman Britain
…do stand out as being a a bit unrealisitic. I mean, how many governors of Roman Britain of any race or nationality can the typical Briton actually name? I’d be surprised if it was more than 1 and probably less than that.
And if the expectation is that anyone would know of this guy only because his chief contribution to history is “being black” then I am not sure what we are gaining here.
I’m no Briton and i just know a few bits here and there of British history, but isn’t the UK a traditionally mostly white country ?
I’m guessing half of say, Norwegians, also can’t name a black Norwegian historical figure either. I’m betting it’s even more than that and they’re the most immediate neighbors of the UK.
I’m not saying they’re not important to be remembered, or that there weren’t black people in Europe since the Roman times, here and there, but statistically speaking, black people were the overwhelming minority.
Norway didn’t colonize the West Indies or Africa (though they ran the Société du Madal for Portugal), thereby increasing the number of black Norwegians to include residents of entirely new majority black countries. There are a lot of black Brits.
Also, why Norway and not France (physically closer, comparable colonial history) or the Republic of Ireland (former colony, significant “shared history” during the colonial times, literally touching)?
You would get the same results in France or Ireland. And if you want to get into figure in former British colonies, you’d be talking half the world. Name a famous black person from pre-revolutionary America that more than half of British would know.
I very much doubt you would get the same result from France, given the very different historical attitudes towards black people in the two countries, as well as a higher number of black people whose stories are taught (due to the difference in attitudes).
Name a famous black person from pre-revolutionary America that more than half of British would know.
Clearly, it’s impossible to do so, given the story we’re commenting under. I assume sally Hemings or (probably less likely) crispin attucks would be the figures they’d be most likely to name.
The more relevant aspect of the colonizing point was that Britain colonized Kenya (as an example) in the 1960s, not the US in the 1700s. They can’t name a single black Kenyan person from that time period?
Oh right yeah the colonial times. I guess when i was thinking about historical Britain i was thinking about celtic/roman/viking/medieval times. I tend to gloss over colonial times, i find that part of history not to be very appealing to me, but yeah, makes sense. Lots of black people because of the slave trade.
I picked east, i could’ve picked west, or south sure. No reason in particular.
This isn’t just a race issue, how many historical figures in general can people name?
I’d gamble that 7% of British people think Winston Churchill signed the Magna Carta at the end of the first world war, and I include former prime ministers in that.
Yeah, I couldn’t name one either (I’m from the US). The first name that popped into my mind was Jimi Hendrix but he wasn’t British. I guess Othello wasn’t British either, and may not have even been historical. I had heard of Idris Elba but didn’t realize that he was British. No idea about the Spice Girls.
There is a story (maybe apocryphal) that former US Vice President Dan Quayle (famous for malapropisms) once referred to Nelson Mandela as a “great African-American”, fwiw.
She would have expected people to name figures such as Quintus Lollius Urbicus, who became governor of Roman Britain
Look, I know everyone in Britain is required to know the names and dates of all the monarchs going back to the 9th century, but expecting everyone to be able to come up with that name when put on the spot is going a little too far.
I wouldn’t really think of Roman governors of Britain as a “British historical figure”, more like a “Roman historical figure who happened to be stationed in Britain”, same as with modern diplomats or military leaders.
Also, is it even confirmed he was black? I mean Algerian people are not exactly black. Could be wrong though. Don’t know if there are any ancient scripts describing him.
Yeah you’ll see this a lot with Roman history anyone who lived on the continent of Africa has to be black. It’s a way of oddly, well I guess whitewashing isn’t the exact right term I’m looking for, but oversimplifying I guess history? I’ve taken the Nuance out of things. Also of diminishing other North African cultures.
It’s not just Roman history. It happened recently with the Cleopatra show. Some people can’t get their head around the idea that not all Africans are black.
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