Whilst I am sympathetic to the overall aim of this, things like this:
She would have expected people to name figures such as Quintus Lollius Urbicus, who became governor of Roman Britain
…do stand out as being a a bit unrealisitic. I mean, how many governors of Roman Britain of any race or nationality can the typical Briton actually name? I’d be surprised if it was more than 1 and probably less than that.
And if the expectation is that anyone would know of this guy only because his chief contribution to history is “being black” then I am not sure what we are gaining here.
This isn’t just a race issue, how many historical figures in general can people name?
I’d gamble that 7% of British people think Winston Churchill signed the Magna Carta at the end of the first world war, and I include former prime ministers in that.
I’m no Briton and i just know a few bits here and there of British history, but isn’t the UK a traditionally mostly white country ?
I’m guessing half of say, Norwegians, also can’t name a black Norwegian historical figure either. I’m betting it’s even more than that and they’re the most immediate neighbors of the UK.
I’m not saying they’re not important to be remembered, or that there weren’t black people in Europe since the Roman times, here and there, but statistically speaking, black people were the overwhelming minority.
Norway didn’t colonize the West Indies or Africa (though they ran the Société du Madal for Portugal), thereby increasing the number of black Norwegians to include residents of entirely new majority black countries. There are a lot of black Brits.
Also, why Norway and not France (physically closer, comparable colonial history) or the Republic of Ireland (former colony, significant “shared history” during the colonial times, literally touching)?
You would get the same results in France or Ireland. And if you want to get into figure in former British colonies, you’d be talking half the world. Name a famous black person from pre-revolutionary America that more than half of British would know.
I very much doubt you would get the same result from France, given the very different historical attitudes towards black people in the two countries, as well as a higher number of black people whose stories are taught (due to the difference in attitudes).
Name a famous black person from pre-revolutionary America that more than half of British would know.
Clearly, it’s impossible to do so, given the story we’re commenting under. I assume sally Hemings or (probably less likely) crispin attucks would be the figures they’d be most likely to name.
The more relevant aspect of the colonizing point was that Britain colonized Kenya (as an example) in the 1960s, not the US in the 1700s. They can’t name a single black Kenyan person from that time period?
Oh right yeah the colonial times. I guess when i was thinking about historical Britain i was thinking about celtic/roman/viking/medieval times. I tend to gloss over colonial times, i find that part of history not to be very appealing to me, but yeah, makes sense. Lots of black people because of the slave trade.
I picked east, i could’ve picked west, or south sure. No reason in particular.
It is sad, but this is also because of the generally low level of interest in classical music.
I will say that even within classical music, he does not get the correct level of recognition. Possibly (likely) due to racial issues of the time.
I have noticed more is being done to address this recently, which is a positive. Classical radio stations are featuring his music more and running features discussing his life and music. He was also featured in this year’s proms, which is probably most of the general publics only exposure to classical music.
Yeah, I couldn’t name one either (I’m from the US). The first name that popped into my mind was Jimi Hendrix but he wasn’t British. I guess Othello wasn’t British either, and may not have even been historical. I had heard of Idris Elba but didn’t realize that he was British. No idea about the Spice Girls.
There is a story (maybe apocryphal) that former US Vice President Dan Quayle (famous for malapropisms) once referred to Nelson Mandela as a “great African-American”, fwiw.
I'm American so I thought I didn't know any Black British historical figures. Thanks, OP, for posting about this because it's inspiring me to educate myself on the subject.
I've only heard of Mary Seacole out of the black Britons from history we're expected to know of.
I actually googled the musician and he has a relatively interesting story but it's also not at all surprising people don't know who he is today - he had one piece which was very popular called the Feast of Hiawatha which according to Google was played regularly until 1939 and then doesn't seem to have been revived. Seems he was much better regarded as a conductor.
Anyhow, historically this country's establishment has made it hard for black people to get famous until the 20th century, something that this academic surely knows. She's either naive or deliberately skewing her results for headlines by asking for names from a time when her top rankings include a Roman Governor!
How many people could recognize any but the 3-5 most repeatedly displayed historical figures from significantly before their own birth by sight or describe their appearance? I mean in Britain it might be a few more because they are so obsessed with their past monarchs but I doubt it would reach double digits.
I am not talking about school or documentaries or anything like that. I was more thinking there is a lot of media that portrays some of the past monarchs in always the same way, e.g. queen Victoria or king Henry VIII. It is not that the people know what they did or who they really were but their images are plastered in a lot of places in ways that others countries do not.
Most have things like statues or that mountain you mention, things that do not represent things like skin tone or hair colour accurately so unless someone differs ethnically a lot from the rest of the population you would never know those details from those kinds of portrayals of their appearance.
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