My Uber driver was on insta watching reels the entire hour+ drive, and then missed the exit at rush hour and added 20 minutes to the trip. AITA if I rate him down for it? I get bored too, but like, damn.
@hacks4pancakes that’s exactly the kind of driver we don’t want on our roads all day every day … if ever.
They’ll find another job that doesn’t involve endangering everyone around them. The family they might kill while watching insta reels behind the wheel deserves empathy too.
@hacks4pancakes Looking at the entire thread, I think, "couldn't you have just told him to turn it off or you'll get a negative review/ complaint", but then you're instantly a one star review from the driver and you have to carry that and the knowledge the next person may be more meek than you.
The rating -> ban system is broken because as @mattblaze put it, they outsource QA to customers and drivers are customers too.
@kellan it’s not cavalier but we have zero employment protections or unemployment support - a negative review could cause someone to be living on the street with no food
@hacks4pancakes sure, but like… distracted driving literally kills people? I don’t see the equivalence there. Why is his livelihood more important than someone else’s life?
The behaviour you described, at least the way you described it, isn’t bad like “checking a text at a stop light” is bad. Shit like that should cost you your license. My 2c 🤷
I agree that education > punishment and I would never want someone to be on the street for any reason... So if you won't report it bc of that, then YOU have a responsibility to speak up when you see criminal behaviour that literally endangers people.
And if you're not cool doing that because of your anxiety or w/e fine but then maybe don't make AITA jokes about it on the internet because ... well, ESH will be the answer 🤷♂️
@kellan it’s not a joke, I’m legitimately weighing a single parent of a small child losing his job versus me, childless, dying. Sorry you thought it was cute.
@UnderpantsGnome@kellan it might have unfortunately sounded like I was being glib, but every single toot in the thread was sent completely seriously. I really don’t know.
@hacks4pancakes fair! But then: what about everyone else on the road?
FWIW I think it’s noble that you chose valuing his livelihood over your life, but my argument is your compassion for him came at the expense of everyone else.
@kellan it’s really tough. Seriously, I think in America that people who are empathetic towards others enable a lot of broadly harmful behaviors with tipping and ratings, because we know nobody has any protections or reliable unemployment and the job market is awful. You’re always choosing between saving individuals and families from fire-at-will practices and zero safety net, and enabling whatever bad thing they do. Again I am very sorry for sounding glib but I was 100% serious. A four star ratting may mean no money for weeks for someone.
@hacks4pancakes It did sound glib to me, and I read it that way, but if I’m honest Leslie I don't think I would have said much differently (other than calling it a joke).
I'm 100% aligned that the job market is terrible. But this person watched video.
while driving.
for an hour.
There no situation in which that person should have a job driving a multi-thousand pound vehicle. none. If you're not going to say something to them, you have a responsibility to say something to someone else.
@kellan I just don’t think you have the same perspective, but I appreciate you listening and trying to understand. I’m glad you don’t have to make choices like this routinely.
@hacks4pancakes@kellan Lesley, that's admirable. Seriously. It's amazing that you’d put potentially depriving a child of food over a distracted driver killing you. But you're important and loved too. And this is completely unacceptable. That driver shouldn't be driving. You absolutely should be reporting them.
@hacks4pancakes it amazes me how some people really do not understand that economic violence is real violence. that "the free market" has pinned workers against each other while the real violators, the capitalists who bought themselves de-regulation, are laughing themselves silly all the way to the bank. this lack of awareness makes is what's keeping us back. it doesn't breed solidarity across paycheck sizes.
@hacks4pancakes@blogdiva As a German, I'm privileged by having worker protections and I'm aware of it; however most folks here aren't and this makes me angry. Feeling entitled is a very German trait.
Guess I just don't do Uber/Lyft often enough to encounter it like you do, but I've asked drivers very politely to slow down, pay attention, etc. any time I feel like what they are doing is unsafe. Never had one get offended and it boosts the tip if they're considerate about the request. I guess my point is, anyone call fall into bad habits and if no one points it out, the behavior won't change.
@hacks4pancakes@friz Its never rude to demand that someone doesn't put your life in jeopardy. Sure you can use "I'm sorry" in the phrase if you must, or even promise a higher tip, but distracted driving can be worse than drunk driving. (The drunk driver typically drives slow because they KNOW they don't react quickly) Not that I'm advocating either activity! Stay safe!
@hacks4pancakes something like that is a 1100AUD fine and four demerit points where I live. 12 demerit points in a three year period and you lose your license.
@hacks4pancakes Airport taxi in Vancouver years ago. Driver took a call (holding phone to ear) then started writing notes with pad on passenger seat, steering with knees. On highway. Growing horror, mute, thinking how mad I’m going to be if we all die, it takes a near miss for me to blurt out “please get off the phone”. They grumble the other driver was at fault. I obligingly agree but say all the more reason to be vigilant.
The conflicting desire not to die v not to be rude…
@hacks4pancakes driver watching video while you are in the car and it's moving? About the only thing that would lead to me rating zero. I don't care how good you think you multi-task, you can't drive and watch videos. Dangerous to themselves, passenger, and the other people on the road.
@hacks4pancakes I don't recall "How do I browse Instagram, while doing 60 on the Freeway?" on my license test.
Downrate them, and even report the incident to Uber. The thing Uber and Lyft have taught me is that there are a lot more dangerous drivers on the road than the 15 yo that just got their license.
@hacks4pancakes Professionalism is part of the job. Down rate, go for the partial refund, and report for unsafe driving habits. We do not need uber/lyft drivers like this on the road.
@hacks4pancakes I'm curious how uber, which only just arrived locally in the past few months, encourages drivers to obey the "no electronic devices while driving" law here. There's a bit of a carveout for hands free interaction, but what are the odds ... reels while driving? That's a paddlin'.
I’m so Midwest that shit like this happens and I have an existential crisis about whether to tip 18 or 20 percent, and then I say “sorry” about something.
@hacks4pancakes gig work is a strange things in a « developed » country. Safety is safety. No matter if the gig worker have nothing else. US should solve his social problem, like most developed country, instead relaying on third world way to solve social problems. Outside US, Uber drivers are almost on par with taxi driver and compete fairly in a open market. Each country have specific Uber rules and it’s sometime confusing to understand those… but still, I’ll prefer the previsibility given by Uber. But taxi companies started to change, like with Curb in US. So, no clear cut answer on a such complex matter.
I definitely need to explain this better to people who aren’t American, because it’s reading like a callous joke - and it’s really completely honest and serious dark humor. Let me explain what happens when I rate a person down for unsafe rideshare driving in America:
They’re probably immediately banned from driving for the service, and they’re not paid for the (lengthy in my case) ride or tip, so no money that evening, and they now need to find a new job. In this economy.
Most people in America live paycheck to paycheck. Now no money is coming for them or their family that day. They have no safety net of savings.
Most rideshare drivers don’t have the most basic protections as employees that general American workers do. They may not qualify for unemployment quickly or at all. Either way they aren’t getting any food, shelter, or money immediately. They own or lease expensive cars, too.
If you don’t get food or rent assistance through those convoluted and hard to qualify for assistance programs, you’re pretty much dependent on charities with resources that week that do or do not deem you and your family godly enough to help. Unhoused people are all over in most US cities because there just are not enough resources or eligibility.
That’s the math empathetic Americans do every time we choose how to rate or tip service workers. Especially gig workers at unscrupulous companies. It’s legitimately- “ha ha… I could die, but this driver has little kids who need to eat and I don’t… ha… ha…”
In this case I did because it was honestly so so dangerous, but I’ll feel guilty for months because I know the driver had little kids and I may have cost them a meal. Or more than just one, or maybe going to school this week.
@hacks4pancakes As many, MANY others have pointed out: It's not just about this driver and his family, it's also about the safety of all the other people he shares a road with and their families. Yes, it sucks that something as trivial as a rideshare review can have such a devastating impact on an individual, and that whole economic aspect is fully dystopian.
But bruh. Insta reels while driving. What the fuck.
@Legit_Spaghetti yeah, that’s why I commented on it. It was totally insane, and because of our corporate dystopia I still have to feel awful for a long time for reporting it.
@hacks4pancakes@Legit_Spaghetti It’s really a shit sandwich. But one of the many possible outcomes is: you don’t report, they continue to IG while driving, and next time they never make it home to their kids
We all have to make decisions, including this driver and now you. I feel like you made the one that most reduces potential harm
@hacks4pancakes@Legit_Spaghetti yeah, this is just not a borderline case. Inattentive driving while watching videos (with a passenger in the back!) is putting lives at risk. You did a good thing, even if it also has some unfortunate consequences.
@hacks4pancakes@Legit_Spaghetti And don’t get me started about the way all these gig-economy services have completely outsourced their quality control and screening to their customers.
@mattblaze@hacks4pancakes@Legit_Spaghetti honestly, you could have died in a traffic accident because the driver was looking at the phone. You rating them down may have saved lives!
@hacks4pancakes@mattblaze And to think, in the '90s we were worried the computers would start WW3, when in reality we should have been worried about the machines helping bring about an entirely different kind of hell.
@mattblaze@hacks4pancakes@Legit_Spaghetti There is absolutely nothing new about the ”gig economy”. It’s exactly the same thing as when hundreds of people would show up outside the factories in the hope of getting work for a day. The thing that fixed it? Unions.
@hacks4pancakes@Legit_Spaghetti Gig-economy really sucks. I think we used to have Uber, maybe we still do, but they have to be licensed taxi drivers, the "anyone can drive"-tier got banned.
We have food delivery gig-service, but they agreed on signing the Union CBA for their workers. It's not perfect, but it's a start.
Package delivery is still a mess though.
Hopefully it's not too late to fight the exploitation of workers. Even for dark dystopian America.
@hacks4pancakes@Legit_Spaghetti I read "Sometimes doing the right thing feels bad." It feels like whole systems are built around us that make doing the right thing suck more more often and in greater quantity. But it's still the right thing done.
@hacks4pancakes I think you did the right thing to report it, because it was putting lots of peoples' lives at significant risk, but your reservations about doing so are also valid (and thoughtful).
I was thinking about what proactive steps one could take to avoid this sort of conundrum; I guess maybe trying to avoid ride sharing services would be one, but that's probably easier said than done. Old-style taxis weren't great, but it seems like they were less bad than the ride sharing situation; they seem to still exist in my area, but I'm not sure if that's true everywhere.
People who do that whilst driving should be banmed from participating in traffic unsupervised even as a pedestrian due to gross neglect and disregard for everyones' life amd wellbeing, including their own!!!
@hacks4pancakes I had a similar situation many years ago (2016-17) where the driver was obviously not wearing a seat belt. Reported and 1 stared immediately after the ride. Dude was young, and it was a new car as well. I lacked the understanding of the nuance of what my report could do until I read your toot about your moral fight about this.
Maybe I thought at the time "rideshare company will call them, reprimand, and tell them not to do it again". At that point I never worked for a large corp before, but since I have now I know how ruthless the rideshare companies can be from social stories.
It's a good pause to have, but if the driver couldn't take his safety seriously, would he do so with others?
@hacks4pancakes This person absolutely needs to be off the roads. You being charged an extra 20 minutes is frustrating as hell, but it being because your driver wasn’t paying attention on the road, watching Instagram Reels - that’s a menace to society and needs stopping. Just hateful that you’re the one having to do the job that Uber should.
@hacks4pancakes Did you talk to the driver about it? I think that is more important than the rating anyhow.
More interesting than what will or will not happen to his kids - which you have no influence over anyhow, is the question of why you are using and thus supporting a rideshare company that works like this? And which you know works like this?
Maybe don't use rideshare services which force you to make this decision, let them know about your concern. That is within your area of influence.
@hacks4pancakes hi lesley. i’ve been resisting responding because i can see you’re already getting plenty of folks with a similar opinion to my own. but i think it’s worth reaffirming. reporting this driver is not your fault. it’s your duty. he’s going to get someone hurt maybe himself. maybe his kids. if he’s driving like that while working, where he could lose his job, he’s probably doing it while he’s carting his kids around. it’s eventually going to end badly.
@hacks4pancakes Don't feel guilty. If they were doing this with you in the car, they were probably doing it with others. Think of the potential lives you've saved by possibly getting a dangerous driver off the road.
@hacks4pancakes I used to ride my bicycle everywhere. I have been hit by inattentive drivers 4 times. Two times they had to be brought back to the scene because they didn't even realize they had hit someone. 3 of those times I had to go to the ER.
@hacks4pancakes That driver could also die, in which case those kids would still not eat. If it was genuinely unsafe driving (it was) then you have a duty to report for the sake of the driver and anyone they might put at risk. I feel your pain though.
@hacks4pancakes I hear ya. My personal policy is to never complain to someone’s boss, and never call the police unless there’s a preventable life-and-death situation unfolding. You never know if that’s going to be the call that ruins their life, and I don’t want to be the one responsible for sinking them. It shouldn’t be that way, but for a lot of people it really is.
@hacks4pancakes Maybe an option would be to ask him to pull over for a sec to talk (with the unmeter running). And tell him everything in this toot. That might hit home. Is that safe to do?
@hacks4pancakes Yeah, I get that you can't do much about this one. But maybe it's a useful strategy for next time. I expect a lot of drivers do this, and I'm now thinking about how I should handle it.
@hacks4pancakes
One time I had a ride that felt totally unsafe. Ran a red light and almost ran another. Other things happened too. At first I tipped and did normal review and thought about it overnight. I decided to contact the company and tell the truth. I finally decided the safety of the next person who might ride was more important.
@hacks4pancakes it’s about collective responsibility, not only your driver’s finances. He wasn’t as concerned as you for his kids, how could he be concerned about his passengers (and others) safety? I think reporting such a prick does more good than harm.
@hacks4pancakes I so hate the damage someone can do to a life just by not giving a perfect score. I've thought about how we might fix this and make a 5 star scale have 5 actual values rather than 5 stars or fail. I'm pretty sure I'd need to go get a sociology or psychology degree to do it right, though.
@eagerpebble@hacks4pancakes Don't make the mistake of thinking the system is the problem. That presumes the corporation running the metric doesn't want a five-stars-or-fail system when they very much do.
Consider: why would Uber want to retain a driver who has 3.2 stars? Since the passenger doesn't choose the driver, are you going to feel confident or comfortable seeing that a 3.2 star driver is on their way to pick you up? And even if you, personally, are, how do you suppose the average customer would respond?
No, this works exactly the way Uber wants it to work. Uber wants to be able to pair you up with a 4-5 star driver whenever you ride, and that's what creates the five-or-bye dynamic.
@erickolb@eagerpebble I disagree. If we took stars out and made it say, “Excellent” “Good” “Average” “Below Average” I think I’d have a different cut off. Lots of us stay in 3 & 4 star hotels. We are conditioned by online retailers to demand 5 stars.
@hacks4pancakes@erickolb@eagerpebble it's fascinating to see the replies in this thread, some get close, but none point to the actual problem: no food/shelter/money/healthcare for the family or individual just because they lose a job.
You Americans have lived like this for so long, you don't even notice how insane that is.
You can try to optimise the 5 star system all day, as long as the consequences of a simple review are so dire, you won't get anywhere with that.
@eagerpebble@hacks4pancakes I do wonder if a 3 option system might work- default to OK (everything went fine), it went exceptionally well, and there's an issue ( what was the issue)
@keen456 Sure, I think that's less cognitive load for the customer, but I'm not sure it changes how the companies will treat it. They could easily present the 3 options and then say that anything other than the top option is bad, regardless of how it's labeled. The benefits of a real feedback system to workers (useful feedback which can help them improve) and customers (workers that learn and improve to provide better service) are pretty clear. We just need a way to convince the companies that it's good for them too (which I believe it is).
@hacks4pancakes I’ve had one driver put me in tears, and I nearly got out to walk the last mile, but I still knew I had to give him 5 stars and a tip 😞
@hacks4pancakes This is dark.
Basically, the driver looses, obviously; the customer looses, because a basic feedback turned in a moral challenge; the company wins, by burdening others with all the hard parts of daily business, including optimizing their workforce.
Coupling the feedback to drastic punishment is also a cheap way to handle the staff: instead of educating their people, just take those already qualified, shoving the qualification into their own time.
@hacks4pancakes
Its sad that this is exported. Imagine how jarring this is when you live somewhere with a still functioning employees actually have rights and get paid a wage by their employers and don't survive off tips (just as well, they don't get any) and then on the way home from the restaurant in an uber you are thrown into "I must give 5 stars" and a tip if there was any actual effort at all and.. Its a pandemic.
@hacks4pancakes As a Non-American, has uber/similar ride share apps, pushed out the competition? Here, my choice to never use Uber has had very little impact on my life.
@hacks4pancakes@ksaj unfortunately, 'minimum wage' != 'living wage'. Chicago just prevented them from including tips as part of their base wage calculation, when complying with minimum wage. Living wage is something entirely different.
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