aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

Whenever an org says it wants to use ‘AI’ for a better customer experience, it is almost certainly lying.

Customers are not clamoring for shitty chat bots that extend the time to get to a real human. Customers are not asking for LLM-authored SEO-driven FAQ pages. Customers are not asking for yet more hero images of people with extra fingers.

The org is likely only interested in using ‘AI’ to reduce effort, save money, cut staff.

xorbit,
@xorbit@noc.social avatar

@aardrian "" is a prime example of the damage done by funding too. Considering the energy use, these services are operating at a loss just to gain market share, it's warping the real competitive picture and people are falling for it. Happens every. Single. Time.
By the time the VC money runs out, there's enough buy-in to make it hard to reverse, the damage to society will have been done, and the VCs can start raking in the dough...

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@xorbit They have learned from the Uber model how to buy a market at a loss. The ecological damage is someone else’s problem. As it is always someone else’s problem. Because their tax breaks will ensure it won’t be their problem.

silviar,
@silviar@mstdn.social avatar

@aardrian increase income. Always doing everything they can to make more money. One day no one will be able to afford to buy their crap and then where will they be. Support ethical companies. Research and spurn companies that are only interested in the bottom line.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@silviar Indeed, I do my best to avoid companies that care little for people.

docRekd,

@aardrian https://danluu.com/customer-service/ makes an important observation: customer service suck so much that replacing it with would be an improvement, or at least cannot worsen it.

docRekd,

@aardrian Quoting the above link: "The case against using computers instead of humans is that computers are bad at handling error conditions, can't adapt to unusual situations, and behave according to mechanical rules, […] but that's precisely the situation we're in right now with humans. It already feels like dealing with a computer program. Not a modern computer program, but a compiler from the 80s that tells you that there's at least one error, with no other diagnostic information."

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@docRekd I agree that telephone customer service does not scale, and chat bots are a viable approach.

But when an org straps a chat bot to its site for novelty, or when the ChatGPT chat bot cannot perform the same functions as existing chat bots, or when the chat bot makes shit up, or…

Anyway, I don’t like training chat bots for free when I just want to know where my shipment is.

Melpomene,
@Melpomene@erisly.social avatar

@aardrian Yup. Amazon is a great example... they've gone through great pains to make the process of reaching a human as difficult as they can without removing it entirely.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@Melpomene Indeed. One of many factors that has made me use it only to look up ISBNs and then order from my local independent retailer.

grumpasaurus,
@grumpasaurus@fosstodon.org avatar

@aardrian yeah ngl I don't think AI is close to this yet
https://fosstodon.org/@grumpasaurus/111501598473350783

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@grumpasaurus Was that a human on the other end?

grumpasaurus,
@grumpasaurus@fosstodon.org avatar

@aardrian yeah that was a human. No way would an AI appreciate a Bette Midler reference

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@grumpasaurus Lulz. Agreed on that point.

I have had a couple human-powered chats that were great — once I got past the scripted auto-responses.

grumpasaurus,
@grumpasaurus@fosstodon.org avatar

@aardrian probably where AI SHOULD be of value is my question on getting a direct link to the product but I don't think that is really the case.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@grumpasaurus Heck, NLP has been able to do that for years. Fuzzy searches, proper tagging in data structures, etc. No AI needed.

But yeah, a chat bot could at least follow a sequence of questions with language that sounds less like an algorithm.

tyler,
@tyler@restive.social avatar

@aardrian Personally, I am clamoring for an AI chatbot that gets me to Level II support automatically and then turns the call back over to me to actually fix the problem.

If it worked, I'd happily pay for it.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@tyler Same. The promise of Intelligent Agents. Sadly, the model has been flipped.

gajustempus,
@gajustempus@social.anoxinon.de avatar

@aardrian
as someone who has already modelled services and workflows for 1st and 2nd level, I'd liek to express an objection against this very narrow-minded look into this matter.

There's plenty of scenarios I could come up with where AI would be awesome to assist the agent on the telephone and enable him to both either deliver a quick fix to the customer or improve the whole incident handling process, which is what really stalls humans and prevents them from really interacting with others

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@gajustempus First- and second-level what? Chat bots? LLM-authored FAQ pages? Generated images?

gajustempus,
@gajustempus@social.anoxinon.de avatar

@aardrian
if "chat bot" or "image generation" are the only examples you can come up with when it comes to AI, it's pointless to continue talking to you

Goodbye

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@gajustempus I offered three in the post to which you replied. Your reply implied there were levels in one of those three.

If you are no longer interested in the conversation you started, no worries.

Have a good day!

nini,
@nini@bitbang.social avatar

@aardrian They've never wanted it, not since before voice recognition on automated phone trees, automated phone trees themselves or outsourced call centres. Every innovation has only ended up an obstacle set up to make sure you give up before you make it to a human.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@nini Indeed. The uptake of any new customer service technology by bigCorps is a function of how much they can put off customers.

rik,
@rik@opalstack.social avatar
aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@rik Totally on-brand. All the chatbots give each other thumbs, I’m sure.

Mdubbelm,
@Mdubbelm@mastodon.social avatar

@aardrian I posted this in our ai guild group chat today, also mentioning the costs/ amount of energy of using generative ai. One of the comments was: let’s focus on sharing knowledge. The other comment was: a calcuation of LLM carbon footprint vs an employee…

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@Mdubbelm Awesome.

Fingers in ears followed by trying to identify how many Watts a person generates.

Denial and dystopia in one quick chat.

krypt3ia,

@aardrian It’s always about the money

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@krypt3ia And if they say it’s not about the money, yeah, it’s about the money.

enantiomer,
@enantiomer@stoat.zone avatar

@aardrian

confusion between customers and investors seems common

"you know, the people the money comes from"

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@enantiomer For too many businesses, the investor is the revenue source and the customer is the product, and I am amazed that consumers overall still don’t recognize this.

enantiomer,
@enantiomer@stoat.zone avatar

@aardrian

that's what makes them consumers

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@enantiomer Bingo.

andrewhinton,
@andrewhinton@jawns.club avatar

@aardrian @danilo And they aren’t even always conscious of this. I have definitely experienced decision makers actually convincing themselves that changing (insert whatever) is “what customers want!” when it was really only about slashing costs and making lines go up on (shareholder-fixated) goals.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@andrewhinton @danilo

Because they are motivated to believe it. I think that was an Upton Sinclair quote that their salaries are dependent on believing it.

vick21,
@vick21@mastodon.social avatar

@aardrian I think they ar saying it more for themselves than for users! :)

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@vick21 Absolutely. Oh, and also saying it for their employees, marketing team, and investors.

Because they are all motivated to believe it.

whatzaname,
@whatzaname@kolektiva.social avatar

@aardrian when i see ai as an option, i find a phone number and carpet bomb it with phone calls until i get a human. Then i ask my question, however basic. When a human points out that there is an ai option i spend a lot of time explaining politely all the reasons 'ai doesn't work on my browser' or 'it keeps saying wrong answers'
Or whatever.
Then call again the next day, if i have another question.
I know it takes time, but putting their hold music on speaker is a small price to pay to gum up a shitty system.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@whatzaname I appreciate that you do it. I can never carve out the time, so keep fighting that fight.

Npars01,
@Npars01@mstdn.social avatar

@aardrian

True story:

Shipping company drops off box at the wrong address.

It took 2.5 hours with a chatbot to get the delivery company to agree to come get it.

The delivery company driver refused to pick the box up because it lacked a label.

Another 2 hours with a chatbot....

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@Npars01 Hell, you got a human to at least show up. That might be a win in some contexts. Shipping company might consider that part a loss, of course, since a human had to get involved.

Never mind the box. They have forgotten there was ever a box.

EMR,
@EMR@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@aardrian for some companies the goal of customer service is to frustrate complaining customers until they give up and accept whatever mistake has been imposed on them. Chatbots are the next phone tree.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@EMR Exactly. Just keep off-loading people to more and more arcane communication channels until they give up.

Reduce effort, save money, cut staff.

azonenberg,
@azonenberg@ioc.exchange avatar

@aardrian @EMR After all, when you're the only ISP in the area, what are people gonna do? Not keep giving you money?

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@azonenberg
Monopolies are gonna love this fake-AI-powered enshittified future.

@EMR

Coolmccool,
@Coolmccool@mastodon.au avatar

@EMR @aardrian Ahem. Just about to have a go at trying to get the compensation we're owed for a cancelled flight. I'll keep your sentiments in mind (cough).

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@Coolmccool @EMR Oof. Good luck.

brucelawson,
@brucelawson@vivaldi.net avatar

@aardrian So cynical, yet so beautiful.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@brucelawson I’m ready for my close-up.

brucelawson,
@brucelawson@vivaldi.net avatar

@aardrian I'm not sure I am...

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@brucelawson Blame the new window ghost.

FeralRobots,
@FeralRobots@mastodon.social avatar

@aardrian
Another motivation: 'So [we/I] can look cool & get a better performance appraisal.' Seeing a lot of that in my org right now.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@FeralRobots Oh absolutely that is why teams and managers are pitching it up the chain.

FeralRobots,
@FeralRobots@mastodon.social avatar

@aardrian
yeh if I weren't close enough to retirement that I don't think they'll bother to replace me, I'd feel nervous about being a LLM skeptic. I see people literally casting around despreately for something they can use AI for.
I think as a consultant one has potential to add "AI skepticism" to one's value proposition, but it's a bit touchier w.r.t. people in more regular jobs. I'm thinking a lot of individual-contributor contractors are in srs anxiety about it.

aardrian,
@aardrian@toot.cafe avatar

@FeralRobots Yeah, I assume more junior folks are the ones who may feel the most at risk.

But junior folks are powered by ramen, and LLMs are powered by shit-tons of energy. So it seems a straightforward value prop to some orgs. Obviously not to those who are paying pennies for compute time while fake-AI companies try to corner the market like Uber.

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