davidzipper,
@davidzipper@mastodon.social avatar

As I told NBC News:

“If we’re serious about reducing greenhouse-gas emissions, we have to be serious about reducing transportation emissions, and in order to do that we have to address the main source of those emissions, which come from cars and trucks on highways."

“And to that extent, we need to rethink how much we want to expand highways.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/countries-spurn-cars-us-continues-embrace-highways-rcna145681

forteller,
@forteller@tutoteket.no avatar
cra1g,
@cra1g@sciences.social avatar

@davidzipper Specifically, it's GAS-powered cars and trucks that increase carbon emissions. EVs, when charged from renewable energy sources, do not. Blaming all cars and trucks for the sins of some is less than ideal, just as it is with people.

enobacon,
@enobacon@urbanists.social avatar

@cra1g @davidzipper EVs are not without emissions problems, besides the standard problems of geometry and safety that makes cars ruin cities. There are enough gas cars on the road that decisions about roads are about gas cars for the next decade or two. Electric cars will be great for car companies and not much use toward reducing emissions.

cra1g,
@cra1g@sciences.social avatar

@enobacon That is objectively incorrect. China's transportation sector has greatly reduced its carbon emissions over the past 5 years largely because of the shift to EVs. And Norway has reduced theirs even more. Being an "urbanist" doesn't mean you have to hate all cars without exception, and acknowledging the benefits of EVs over fossil fuel-powered vehicles doesn't threaten your cred as a progressive.

cra1g,
@cra1g@sciences.social avatar

@enobacon Just noticed the "ban cars" note in your bio, so I don't think we'll reach common ground on this. So don't worry about replying. Good luck.

enobacon,
@enobacon@urbanists.social avatar

@cra1g no free parking

enobacon,
@enobacon@urbanists.social avatar

@cra1g citation needed for your china "greatly reduced" claim. Why didn't it make a dent in global emissions?

enobacon,
@enobacon@urbanists.social avatar
atthenius,

@davidzipper

When they rebuild Francis Scott Key… will they add express bus or tram lines? A bikeway?

Or will it be a double-down-car carbon copy with mega-bollards on its base.

HayiWena,
@HayiWena@mastodon.online avatar

@atthenius @davidzipper The Key bridge carried less traffic than a local street. It carred ~4,000 trucks a day, but I haven't been able to determine how many of those were Hazmat trucks that can't use the two tunnels. Does the bridge even need to be rebuilt? https://www.fleetowner.com/safety/article/21285334/how-baltimores-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-affects-truck-traffic-and-fleet-operations

guigsy,
@guigsy@mstdn.social avatar

@HayiWena @atthenius @davidzipper it carries $28bn of goods per year. But $400bn to replace. If they charged each truck $300 per crossing, it'd take 100 years to make the cost back. Doesn't sound like there's a good business case.

HayiWena,
@HayiWena@mastodon.online avatar

@guigsy @atthenius @davidzipper I think you have two zeros too many in your estimate. There is zero business case for rebuilding the bridge, but we don't do business case analyses for highways. We assume they are a positive net good when it's clear the opposite is the case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_U.S._public_works_projects

guigsy,
@guigsy@mstdn.social avatar

@HayiWena @atthenius @davidzipper $400bn ÷ 100years ÷ 365days ÷ 4000trucks/day = $2700 per truck... So my calc didn't have enough zeros.

atthenius,

@guigsy @HayiWena @davidzipper

Wow. Next time someone talks about a bike lane subsidy… I’m going to start telling the a story about a bridge in Baltimore. Geez!!

HayiWena,
@HayiWena@mastodon.online avatar

@atthenius @guigsy @davidzipper It's two orders of magnitude off on the cost to replace the bridge, and then maybe still a factor of five. More like $800m to $4bn range. E.g. $1.5bn for the new Goethals Bridge.

enobacon,
@enobacon@urbanists.social avatar

@HayiWena @atthenius @guigsy @davidzipper even $15-30 per truck for a hundred years is still higher than any politician would ever set tolls (that's without inflation adjustment or interest.) I love the idea of highways trying to break even though 😂 wish we would try harder.

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