It can be done right: local only connections (no cloud), segmented vlan for iot devices with strict firewall rules, Internet access blocked for anything that doesn’t need it, etc.
Unfortunately that takes a lot of knowledge and effort. The cloud based devices that phone home every few minutes are preconfigured and just work, so most people will just use that and not think about it.
If you’re worried about the devices themselves that’s why there are radio protocol standards that decidedly don’t use the internet, like zigbee, z-wave, and now matter.
The communication method isn’t relevant to its security. If you are a house in the suburbs, a WiFi device in your house you isn’t going to be hacked directly by someone wardriving. The wifi device is going to be hacked by someone coming in over your router which is cat 5/6 Ethernet.
Similarly any other wireless device like zigbee will be hacked over the Internet. The packets will come through your zigbee gateway just like they go through your wifi gateway.
You always want a light on when someone enters a room? Always, no exceptions?
Sometimes I go in the kitchen and I don’t want all the lights in my face. Other times I need the extra light. Until home automation can read my mind, a physical switch is easiest.
I had a pair of physical switches that were motion sensing in my last house basement. Very handy for coming down with a laundry basket and having the lights turn on when going over to the washing machine. No connection to the Internet at all.
Home automation is so far beyond just “motion -> light”.
I have profiles of profiles for different reactions based on time of day and different conditions. The only light that comes on no questions asked is the kitchen light and even that is dependent on the time of day – IE at night it only turns on to 50%. You’d be amazed at how much you can simply with a few different conditionals and not much else. Highly implore you to head over to the Home Assistant page/wiki/forum/community/subreddit – its a VAST community.
I miss my android notification LED so I just went ahead and built my own little LED box based on WLED and HA. The app on my phone sends the notification conditional to the HA server in my basement which then sends the signal to the WLED fixture over WIFI to change colors and patterns. When notifications go back to zero the pattern returns to normal. Did i mention the change over takes 30 seconds? No jarring vibrations, sounds, or signals. It’s all just smooth and silent. I love it.
I’ve got some home automation. I wrote my own stuff with a lcars style javaScript front end. Home Assistant couldn’t do what I wanted when I last looked at it 5 years ago.
Sometimes you want light and sometimes not despite the time of day. Then there’s my wife who usually wakes up much earlier and has vastly different preferences on light. So 2am means me with lights at full blast because I’m up late working on a project or no to dim lights if it’s wife waking up for some water or she wants brighter lights to unload the dishwasher. I turn lights on full while making breakfast for the kids. Kids don’t like light when they first wake up so I turn them down after breakfast is on the table and I go wake them up.
“Never touching a switch” isn’t possible without mind reading and knowing the context.
You’re just thinking so small. Program up a macro button if you want to flip a switch and have it do so much more. Put that button right where you want it. I’m building a headboard with an integrated his/her reading light and each side is going to be a momentary, backlight push button with varying intensity based on time of night.
Home assistant, tasmota, zigbee, valetudo and some bluetooth stuff work very well for a secure IoT setup. Only smart stuff connected to the internet is the TV. Haven’t found anything to replace it’s functionality, maybe some HTPC would work, but that’s a project for another time.
Car enthusiasts: Check out this list of mods that’s so long it’d need legal paper to print out. I even have stickers with the chassis code on it and a Japanese license plate on the front so you know it’s JDM.
If I could make my Model S a “dumb” car, I would in an instant. As it is, retrofit-electrifications are still really clunky, infinite pits of expensive despair.
I have a 2012 Civic and a 1997 Prelude and my favorite thing about both of them is the lack of distractions. The Civic gives you a radio and tells you the MPG. The Prelude doesn’t even shift your gears for you lol (it’s also missing a radio but that’s low on the list of repair/maintenance priorities)
I really am dreading the day both of those cars die and there are no cars from before ~2014 left to buy anymore. I really hope dumb cars make a comeback the way dumb phones kind of have. I’d love to see Toyota build the 1993 Camry again.
Oh and when I poke fun at enthusiasts, I’m including myself. I really thought about buying a Japanese style license plate with the BB6 chassis code on it. Until I realized that I’d cringe if I saw that in the wild and so used my better judgment.
As the owner of a German car from 91 with the wide license plate mount molded into the bumper; The urge to get a sauerkraut plate with something car-nerdy on it is strong, but I’m still resisting, for now.
sound recordings, visual recordings, information synched with other smart lg devices you own to completely map your pattern of behaviour in and out of your house, your spending habits etc etc. take your pick.
Probably not, it’s probably just part of some Mirai bot farm purchased for $50 to ddos a TF2 streamer or something. The dip was when the rental expired and it was waiting for new orders.
I mean, not like I’d be super surprised to hear that it was AV on everything, but that sounds like an investment in hardware expenses LG would never make.
Direct Drive tech reduced the number of moving parts so low that it put Big Washer Repair out of business and they had to develop other ways to monetize your laundry.
If you want IOT stuff so bad, connect it to a separate network that has no internet connection. You can then interact with most devices with something like home-assistant
They’re catching on to that. A large number of IOT devices simply won’t work if they can’t hit the internet now.
What really pisses me off is stuff like Sonos. They’re networking code is so bad, I literally have to be on the same subnet to use their app on their speakers.
There is absolutely no reason that my washer needs internet access and if I ever purchase a washer and find that it won’t work without an internet connection, that washer is getting returned immediately.
There is absolutely no reason that my washer needs internet access
Need to function at a basic level? Agree
Need it to, say, notify me that my load is done if I’m on the other side of my property or out in town? Legitimately useful feature for my ADHD riddled ass
Heh my microwave/oven combo that came with my house, it has wifi capability. I was all NOPE, absolutely not. So I set the clock and went about moving in.
Next day, it’s off by 1 minute. hmm, I must have caught it right near 00. Next day it’s off by 2 minutes.
Looking through for options to turn off the clock, NOPE.
It came with the house so i can’t return it. Dual Oven/Micro combos are expensive as hell. So I can either Have a clock in my kitchen that’s perpetually wrong, set the time on it every day, or put it on an IOT isolation network.
Microwave/Oven is the most useless integrated appliance.
At least my washing machine would be able to bug me that it’s done and remind me that it has been sitting for a couple of hours with wet clothes.
Tbh, I’d just put another clock in the kitchen and let that one be as wrong as it wants. It’ll still be right twice a day (rimshot). In my kitchen actually the microwave is already right above the oven, which also has a clock lol.
Yeah, I’ve got 0% chance on that. It would irritate me every time I looked at it. It does make me feel better however knowing they’re not getting any of their telemetry and that the microwave is not capable of touching any other piece of network equipment in my house
I’ve had my washer and dryer for 9 years now. I bought slightly better models than the cheapest ones at Home Depot. The washer has a dial for mode, a dial for temperature, a dial for softener, a dial for extra rinse, and some buttons to start and stop it. The dryer has a dial for time, a dial for temperature, a dial for post-dry tumbling, a dial for buzzer volume, and a button to start it. No screens or displays or wifi or bluetooth. They clean and dry my clothes and nothing has ever gone wrong with them. I don’t know why in the world I would ever want ones with more technology in them.
Push notifications are nice. Especially when the washer is uneven. But especially nice just to get a notification when it’s done.
Maintenance reminders too.
Best is when you leave the house with a blanket and a hoodie in the dryer on “remote start” mode. Turn it on when your 10-15 minutes from home and have a hot blanket and hoodie to snuggle up in as soon as you walk in the door.
I low-key love the little 8-bit-sounding victory songs all the little machines play when they’re done. Makes me feel reminiscent of how I pictured the future when I was a kid… or maybe or beating a very old video game.
Thank you for trying so hard, little rice cooker!
But still, put all that shit on a different subnet or a different network if you can. I use the “guest wifi” network for all our iot devices so i can still access things from the apps when I’m not home, but it’s segregated from our actual internet devices.
My washer tells me when it’s running an unbalanced load by making an extremely loud THUNK THUNK THUNK noise and dancing across the floor until it hits the wall.
See, the old washers are smart washers. They know they’re unbalanced, and they then bang to get your attention while running nervously around your utility room.
I bought a house a few years back that came with a washer and dryer. Let’s just say they were “gently used” models from around or before 2008; practically time capsules. The dryer even still had the protective plastic peel on the console. What’s key is that not only were they practically new, but are just dumb, analog, electric appliances. No frills, no digital displays, no IoT, and possibly no micro-controllers of any kind.
These things have given me over eight years of maintenance-free service and now I dread ever having to replace them.
I just bought a dehumidifier that has wifi features. It’s the best dehumidifier according to all the reviews, and it just also happens to have wifi. But why the hell would I want it connected to my network?
So that you can turn it in and off and control the humidity in your space with advanced timers and automations. Maybe someone is using for their plants and wants it run on an as needed basis.
Washing Machines don’t need to be Internet enabled.
Am I crazy, or is this trend of making random appliances and devices internet connected fucking ridiculous. I’d much rather that manufacturers focus their R&D money on making appliances that last longer or can be repaired. Adding wifi and shitty ‘smart’ features to these things is just a gimmick.
I was looking for a bbq thermometer yesterday and all I could find was smart wifi/Bluetooth thermometers. Why the fuck does a thermometer need wifi/Bluetooth?!?
I could see that being useful. Would be nice for barbecuing in bad weather. Keep an eye on temps without having to go brave the elements unnecessarily.
Not needing a wire to go to the probe part of it is pretty handy. Likewise, a washing machine that can send a push notification to my phone for “Hey, laundry is done.” sounds slightly useful to me as a forgetful person.
My problem with timers is it always goes off when I’m in the middle of something, so I turn it off because it’s annoying and then forget for another 2 or more hours that I needed to get it out. I remember faster without a timer to silence for some reason
My Bluetooth thermometer connects to my home assistant server and sends me notifications to my phone when I reach temp. It goovee app does it too, but now I’m off the cloud shit.
Those are actually a pretty practical smart device. A smart instant read thermometer would be near useless, but the ones you’re describing replace the type that you’d leave in a hunk of meat while it roasts / rotisseries / smokes / slowcooks for hours at a time. In that case it’s super handy to be able to check the temperature to make sure it’s still at target without having to go back to the kitchen or out into the cold / rain, and they’ll actively notify your phone if either the internal temperature goes out of range or the ambient oven temperature does.
The only two I can see that could possibly benefit from this technology are ovens and fridges.
Ovens: Turn them on 5/10 minutes before getting home to preheat, also useful to make sure it’s turned off if you go out. My mother and I have had plenty of times when we go, “Did I turn it off?”
Fridge: keeps track of what you do amt don’t have. Of you go out, even with a list, there’s bound to be something you forget. Also could be useful for recipes. Unless it’s basic stuff, I usually always use recipes, my memory is horrendous, having that on a big screen fridge would save the hassle of having to wash your hands, pick up the phone, put the phone down, wash hands again. The recipes could also be generated from what you have. I think, and I could be wrong here, samsung is trying this.
Anything else seems really dumb though. A washing machine? If you leave it on when you go out, it’ll turn off anyway. It makes even less sense when you consider that you have to manually put things in anyway.
Easiest way would be to use RFID tags. Many products have them hidden in their packaging already, and for those that don’t you can use a reusable RFID sticker
Image recognition would be somewhat possible, but honestly, a far more intensive process and over engineered.
All that said, this is overkill for the average home. Even me, with ADHD and forgetting what I have if I can’t see it, thinks this is a bad solution for me. I’d rather just keep my fridge at no more than 60% capacity so I can easily manage my fridge by always seeing the contents when I open it.
On the did I turn it off part, I’d always be worried if the app actually did turn it off, or is it stuck, or did the app randomly turn it on in the middle of the night while updating, or did someone maliciously hack and turn on my oven, etc etc.
as someone that forgets that they’re in the middle of doing laundry frequently, it was great getting notifications when it was done. I rented a place for a bit that had a smart washer, I actually really miss that.
maintenance and such I’m sure were worse, and I’d much rather it be all local and have open apis, but fundamentally, having a connected washer is actually really nice
I’ve tried vibration sensors on the current not connected wadher, but I can’t get anything reliable enough to be useful
A fridge keeping track of inventory is a massive PITA until all food has NFC chips in it and that raises further concerns.
I’d rather have a barcode scanner over the trash can if I’m gonna connect that much. Or even better, a full on camera. Then I can use it to scan barcodes on stuff as I throw it in the trash, plus semi-important mail and receipts.
To me, a “smart” laundry machine should just be “derrr, I can click a button on this app which turns it on!”
Once it grabs my clothes from the basket, sorts then by colors/whites/delicates/etc, runs them through a way cycle, puts them in to dry and runs a cycle on that, then presses and folds them for me… THEN maybe I’ll consider putting it on the network.
Washing machines do not operate on a fixed timer. They show you a suggestion but if the load of clothes is lighter or heavier the wash cycle will take varying amounts of time. I can’t hear mine either and rely on the notification on my phone.
That’s actually a cool little gimmick of some of the smart features. Downloading extra finish jingles.
Of course these are only a few bytes (or so I’d hope). And limited to what they do. Still sometimes they have seasonal selections. It’s cute and gimmicky and totally unnecessary, sure. But that’s the charm.
My ancient washing machine already has a notification system, no smart features needed. When it’s making an awful noise it’s still washing, when I can hear myself think again it’s finished.
100% agreed. The only appliance I’d ever want with that kind of feature is an oven, just in case, but otherwise, I don’t need everything in my house to be internet connected 24/7. That just leaves way too many ways for people to mess with you if any exploits and stuff are found for the smart things you have.
don’t even need it on an oven just put a timer function on to turn it off automatically at a set time like a microwave that’s why I love using the oven setting on a microwave and hate actual ovens
The problem comes from wanting something “simple” like “tell my phone when the dryer is done.” Because we lack anything resembling a “home wireless notification protocol”, the alternatives are practically non-starters for a range of reasons. Assuming that we need a wireless leg to the user’s device, here’s the state of the art:
SMS requires the dryer to also be a cellphone
Bluetooth range is too short to be useful for everyone
A private dryer network would require your phone/device on multiple WiFi networks at once
Email or any other online chat protocol requires the dryer be online too
Phone app that only talks across the home LAN WiFi (e.g. 192.168.x.x) requires user to understand IP networking*
Packet radio would work, but is non-private, would be a disaster in apartment buildings, and nobody has a receiver
A solution that uses a phone app that talks to an online service, and a WiFi connected device that does the same is the path of least resistance. And I say this as someone who really doesn’t like this fact.
(*A device that can display a QR code to auto-configure a phone app would work a treat, but dot-matrix displays cost)
There’s zwave and zigbee. Downside is that you need a central hub, alot of hubs I’ve seen (cough hue cough) only really work with their products. It’s a cool technology that has been ruined by corps refusing to play ball with each other, even when in different market segments.
It’s a gimmick and is scary as fuck. Look at open cameras like www.insecam.org/en/byrating/ and imagine people using the bare minimum setup on their devices out of ignorance and getting wrecked by scammers and creeps.
Even Amazon employees were busted looking into ring camera users personal cameras,searching for cameras called “bedroom”, “bathroom”, etc.
They don’t want devices that last longer, they want to make something that seems like a neat gimmick that makes you pick them over the competitor, and they want you to come back and buy another in 5-10 years right after the old one fails about 3 months past expiration of the manufacturer’s warranty.
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