How do I fix these god-awful seams?

I have trouble fixing the terrible seams I’m getting. I’ve followed Elli’s print tuning guide and calibrated extruder, tuned PA (it’s now 0.035) and extrusion multiplier.

I’ve tried adjusting both retraction length and speed, but it doesn’t seem to have much impact. I’m not using “wipe on retract” or “retract on layer change”, I only retract if travel distance is longer than 3mm. Retract is 0.3mm @35mm/s.

I’ve tried reducing PA smooth time too, but this also doesn’t seem to have a noticable impact.

I’ve tried reducing seam gap from the default 10% in Orca all the way down to 0%, but the bad seams persist.

I’ve tried with “wipe on loops” both disabled and enabled with no difference.

I’ve tried with both arachne and classic wall generator, no difference.

I’ve tried different wall orders, inner/outer, inner/outer/inner and outer/inner, all with the same bad seams.

Filament in the picture is matte PLA, it is without doubt dry and generally prints well aside from the seams. It’s stored vacuum sealed with silica, and I use a filament dryer to dry if I suspect wet filament.

I’m running out of ideas for where to tweak to get a decent result.

Creat,

In what can only be described as “perfect timing”, the 3d printing channel teaching tech uploaded a video about just this problem literally a day ago: youtu.be/vl0FT339jfc

DreadPotato, (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yeah I can see that the seams of his “before” models is actually look like what I’ve been able to achieve on mine now. I guess I was trying to fix the last bit with standard seam options which might not have been possible.

I’ll download the noisyfox orca slicer and test the scarf seams out.

maxwellfire, (edited )

Is the bad side of the seam where it stops or where it starts printing the outer wall? I assume it’s where it stops and then it cross the wall to form the infill?

To add to the PA questions, are you sure that your PA setting actually are changing anything?

What printer is this and what firmware?

Does a spiral mode print work fine?

What if you print the part significantly slower (to rule out rigidity/acceleration issues)

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Is the bad side of the seam where it stops or where it starts printing the outer wall? I assume it’s where it stops and then it cross the wall to form the infill?

Correct, but this still happens when printing without infill, although less.

To add to the PA questions, are you sure that your PA setting actually are changing anything?

When printing the PA pattern, I can clearly see a difference. I haven’t seen a huge difference in the actual print quality. It doesn’t seem to have the any effect on this issue.

What printer is this and what firmware?

It’s an anycubic kobra 2 bedslinger running klipper

What if you print the part significantly slower (to rule out rigidity/acceleration issues)

Tried printing at both 30mm/s and 100mm/s, it looks the same aside from slightly worse ringing at the higher speed.

Mpatch, (edited )

What printer do you use. This is a mechanical issue. It’s something binding as the one x or y is traveling could be a bearing or the stepper motor it self. It prevents the arc from being fully formed even though the machine thinks it is key point you made is that randomized z seam leaves the same mess, but if notice it’s not all the layers are cut short only some.

Take the belt off and move the axis by hand slow and easy do you feel anything that isn’t smooth like silk? That would be it. Feel the stepper is the drive gear tight any slip ?? Any play in the shaft side?

Edit

Looking at the pictures again I’d bet that if you went taller and printed faster, it would be even worse because the bad part got hotter and more bound up more Alternatively printing faster might make it better because you have the inertia to push past the binding spot.

DreadPotato, (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

It’s an anycubic kobra 2 running klipper.

Randomized seams leaves the same mess, but randomly distributed around the model and not aligned like in the picture. But each seam is equally bad everywhere on the model.

Speed doesn’t seem to affect the issue, I’ve tried both 30mm/s and 100mm/s

I disassembled the X and Y axes yesterday to check the motion system, moving by hand seems as smooth as it’s ever been, no slip that I could feel. I think one roller on the X axis is very slightly oval unfortunately, but moving the model to different locations have no effect on this, and rotating models so seams align differently on the axes doesn’t change anything, so I don’t think that’s the source of the issue.

Mpatch,

Can you post the g code ?

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

I’ll post it later today

Imgonnatrythis,

I have one just like that on my scrotum and was told it’s normal so I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

Rolive,

Yeah it’s just part of the injection molding process.

Jon_Servo,

I wouldn’t know anything about that.

SomeGuy69,

Have you tried being nice to the mold for a start?

callcc,

Actually, it’s part of the vulva closing process.

bigredgiraffe,

So I stared at this for a while, particularly the pattern of the seam, I have a few questions. What type of infill are you using? how many outer wall loops? How much infill overlap (or whatever it is called)?

Also what happens if you rotate the part on the bed 90 degrees so the seam is on a different axis? Or maybe 45 degrees? This will make sure it’s not some sort of mechanical issue in one direct that shows up in this specific situation.

I know that all seems random but those are what I would check hah.

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Issue seems to be following the seam when I rotate parts. in this particular example I am using 5% gyroid, if I switch to grid the defect is uniform along the part. This is just 2 walls, can’t remmber infill overlap, I’ll check tonight.

mildbeard,

Duct tape.

callcc, (edited )

Most probably PA. You should try adjusting it while printing using some g-code console. This way you get immediate feedback. What they often don’t tell you is that pressure advance is not something you can calibrate once and forget, it’s dependent on material, temperature, nozzle diameter and also a lot on feed rate and extrusion rate.

The need for PA and precise tuning is more pronounced the higher changes in extrusion rate you have eg, you print very fast or with wide or high layers.

Just play around with it a bit and I’m sure that you’ll find a better value after some layers.

There are even macros that try to remove the feed rate dependency by effectively replacing every g-code that adjusts feed-rate by a combination of the original g-code pre-ceded by an adjustment of PA. I haven’t tried them out yet though.

What’s weird is the differences of the effect between the layers. Is the every layer the same or is the path different for different layers? Maybe post some images of the inside of the model.

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

This is a good idea. I will further add that Klipper lets you dick with the linear/pressure advance parameters mid-print via GUI with its Fluidd interface. Other systems probably have similar capabilities.

A good test model for this might be a thin walled hollow cylinder with the Z seam facing the user (i.e. out the door or front of the machine) only 2 layers thick or so. That sounds like it ought to make the issue visible quickly, and with minimum of wasted time and filament on infill (not to mention ruined parts).

ShadowRam,

_ I’m not using .... “retract on layer change”_

There's your problem.

DreadPotato, (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

No, I’ve tried with that enabled as well, same issue. This isn’t before a layer change, it’s when it goes from extruding the walls to extruding the infill.

But even without infill this happens. It’s the end of the outer wall that doesn’t connect to the beginning of the outer wall and it’s not really fixed by reducing seam gap, so I’m not sure what’s actually causing it.

ShadowRam,

What slicer?

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

I’m using orca slicer

ShadowRam,

Then I recommend Prusa Slicer.

This is likely a slicer issue.

DreadPotato, (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Just tried, prusa slicer results in the same seam issue. I just loaded the default printer profile from anycubic and only changed gcode flavour from marlin to klipper (since I’m running klipper) and left the rest at default. Looks the same.

ShepherdPie,

Have you tried checking the belts and all the bearings/rails for tightness and smoothness? It almost seems like layer shift at the seam, and if you compare both seams side by side, layer by layer, it almost seems like the print head shifts equally on both prints for any given layer (e.g. left print looks over-extruded while right print is under-extruded, next layer up, it flips and right print looks over-extruded while left print looks under-extruded).

If not the belts or other hardware, perhaps it’s a flow issue. Do you know if the gross looking seams are the start or the end of the layer?

ThePantser,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

There is a setting in super slicer called Seam gap, do you see a setting like that you can play with?

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yes I’ve already tried that, and it doesn’t make much of a difference.

ThePantser,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Wiggle the nozzle is there any slop?

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Nope, it’s rock solid.

CluckN,

Does the nozzle taste normal?

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

No clue, the heat completely numbed my tastebuds /s

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Have you tried turning it off and back on again?

DreadPotato, (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

I’ve tried both on and off, but for some reason it’s not printing at all when its off…guess I’ll have to troubleshoot that some other time 🤷‍♂️

neidu2, (edited )

Disclaimer: I’m not into 3d printing. I’m just a wannabe with not enough time on my hands, so take this post with a bucket of salt. I have, on the other hand, worked a lot with automated machinery.

But if I were to make a guess, I would suspect some slack in either the X or Y direction, resulting in inaccuracy when the nozzle changes direction. This should in theory be less visible when the nozzle is not making sharp turns.

Are your belts tight? Any gears with poorly meshed teeth?

Also, are you able to turn the print (and the seam) 45 and 90 degrees? Do they show up just as ugly? If not, the issue is mechanically limited to one axis.

callcc,

It’s worth a look but I really suspect PA to be the culprit here. The differences between the layers are probably explained by the feed rate after or before the turn due to different path planning.

B0rax,

No, that issue would show a problem with layer stacking as well, which is not the problem here.

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Actually yeah, you might be on to something there. OP could try adjusting belt tension.

If you do end up adjusting belt tension though, make sure to recalibrate your e-steps after.

dual_sport_dork, (edited )
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

That retract distance seems a bit low to me. My (direct drive) printer is happier around 1mm to 1.5mm. I’m not convinced that has anything to do with your particular problem, though.

Anyhow, to my untrained eye that looks like underextrusion at layer change and/or the perimeter lines not actually hitting each other. Are you sure your pressure advance/linear advance values are correct for that filament?

Also, does Orca Slicer allow you to specify a negative value for the seam gap? If so, that might be worth fooling with to see if it has any impact. That’s probably a band-aid, though. I think your issue lies in pressure advance tuning still.

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

This is the filament I’ve tuned PA with, and to my best ability this is what Elli’s guide suggests is the optimal value 🤷‍♂️

But I agree, it does actually look like PA is tuned incorrectly and stopping extrusion too soon/starting it too late.

rambos,

Try without PA, also try another filament

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Tried without PA but there was no difference, going to try different filament next.

As I mentioned somewhere else in this post, it seems to relate to the infill. I’m using gyroid, and the seam lines up with the anchor point for the infill.

rambos,

You can also try without infill 😉

Im throwing many things to try, but not in any particular order

rambos,

Also try normal brass nozzle and check if your new hotend is not loose

_haha_oh_wow_, (edited )
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

Randomize Z seam and make sure your flow/retraction settings are as good as you can get them.

Messing around with your nozzle temperature might help too: Keep in mind that the thermistor in the heat block might be off by a few degrees so if you can measure the temperature directly as a comparison, it can help you figure out how much it’s usually off by and adjust accordingly.

ShadowRam,

Randomize Z seam

There is never a situation where this is a good setting to have on.

_haha_oh_wow_,
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

Can’t say I agree but you print how you want.

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Randomised seams just spreads the issue out on the entire model surface, it looks even worse like that.

_haha_oh_wow_, (edited )
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

It will probably help more once your settings are dialed in, otherwise, yeah it’s just going to distribute the mess. Alternately, keep everything as is and fix it up post-print via filler and sanding.

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a really weird looking z-seam, something is going on there that I’m not quite sure the cause of.

However, in this case I think you could try randomizing z-seam position. It’s not gonna fix the issue completely but it might help you with this particular part.

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yeah I’ve tried that, but it’s still really bad, almost worse, with these scattered all over the surface.

Betch, (edited )
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I thought that might happen too. I’ve never seen seams like that before. What temp are you printing at?

DreadPotato, (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

It’s printing at 200C with fan at 100%, using a 0.4mm hardened steel nozzle.

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Have you ever done a PID tuning?

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yes, I recently switched the hotend from a proprietary one to a regular volcano hotend and did PID tuning.

Betch, (edited )
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Did you notice this kind of thing happening before you switched your hot end? I’m assuming you’ve tested printing at a higher temp already but I have to ask anyway. 200C is kinda low for some PLAs.

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yeah I’ve tried 190-220C, which is the range specified by the manufacturer of the filament.

I don’t remember seeing this issue before the change, but I’m still new to the hobby and may just have overlooked or accepted it earlier.

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Is there a way I could see the file you’re trying to print?

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

This is just the basic cylinder that’s part of orca slicer that I’m using to troubleshoot the issue because it’s quick to print and the issue is clearly visible.

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Hmm, I’ve never tried OrcaSlicer. I’m curious, installing it now.

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

I did also switch to orca around the same time I changed the hotend…I’ll give my old slicer a go as well, maybe it’s a slicer issue.

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Well, I just printed a cylinder and my seams are just fine with “default settings”.

I say “default” because originally I saw some weird stuff in the preview but it turned out to just be because for some reason spiral vase mode was on by default.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/576e14c8-caa8-4622-96cf-818a64a32958.jpeg

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

I just noticed, after intensely staring at my print from an awkward angle to see the nozzle while printing, that the gyroid infill has an anchor to the wall at the seam line. What kind of infill and infill settings are you using?

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Actually noticed my settings were not “default” at all because I had selected options in the calibration test section. I just started an actual default print with a top, bottom, multiple walls and infill hahah.

I’m printing with grid infill. Gonna cancel and try with gyroid.

DreadPotato, (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

I’m getting a 100% uniformly bad seam with grid infill, instead of the one in the pictures that kind of “switches side”, which in guessing is because of the direction changes relative to the wall made for gyroid throughout the model, but grid always moves away from the wall at the same angle.

Edit: tried without any infill, same result as grid infill. So it’s would seem it finishes the wall before it actually fully connects the wall-end to the wall-beginning on the outer walls, before changing to next layer or infill.

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I got the same thing where it seems to pull when it’s switching direction but it’s nowhere near as bad as how it is on yours. I’m thinking it might be a physical issue with your printer.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8aec83e3-ee40-4728-9335-924064a9eef1.jpeg

DreadPotato,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yeah you’re probably right…I’ll take a looks at the motion system then

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Hopefully it’s not too much of a pain in the ass, or at least leads to a fix. Good luck!

Betch,
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah that’s definitely a possibility. I’m just finishing up my start g-code, gonna see what happens if I try to print that cylinder. Hopefully my printer doesn’t blow up or something 🤞

Betch, (edited )
@Betch@lemmy.world avatar

Could you tell me where in OrcaSlicer you found this cylinder? I can’t seem to find it in the calibration tests.

Edit: Nvm found it hahah

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