Why is the government targeting incels?

You may have heard of the “Countering Violent Extremism” program under DHS.

They’ve deployed the tactics used to fight terrorists against domestic citizens. For example, incels. When I posted on the web forum incels dot is, I didn’t know it was Department of Homeland Security operation against men who say they are romantically deprived. I didn’t know I was interacting with larping feds who encourage extremist rhetoric. Consequently I was put on a watchlist and am subject to intrusive monitoring.

I share a lot of my experience here.

twitter.com/WrongedIncel

My question is, is it far that the government is so targeting incels?

jordanlund,

Have you LOOKED at the recent shooters?

npr.org/…/jacksonville-florida-dollar-store-shoot…

White male, early 20s, lives with mom and dad, writing manifestos… Why SHOULDN’T the authorities be looking at incels?

MrHand,

that’s a recipe for civil liberties violations

MrHand,

I lived by myself until feds harassed me from my secure job (back in early 2022) and then started subjecting me to sleep deprivation this year.

roguetrick,

Friend, I recommend you consider visiting the hospital. There's a high chance you have an undiagnosed condition that they can help you with and make your life much easier. That you think the government is interfering with your sleep is a paranoid delusion, but it's very controllable.

MrHand, (edited )
  1. I am under intrusive monitoring because I posted on forum incels.is (run by DHS.)
  2. I lived in apartment and feds rented the units next to and above me.
  3. This year they started engaging in sonic harassment (sleep denying irregular sounds) meant to keep me agitated and mentally exhausted, likely with view to mental decomposition so I end up hospitalized. People who get involuntarily hospitalized for mental health are deprived of 2nd amendment rights.
Wookie,

Friend, you need professional help

roguetrick,

Yes, I understand that you believe that and that I can't convince you otherwise. I am a nurse, however, and am assuring you that you will receive help for it at a hospital. It's not something I can help you with though.

MrHand,

dissidents have often marked as crazy by governments. indeed, they often take a hand in driving that person crazy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung

roguetrick,

In the end, you choose the route you'll take. My recommendation is to check yourself in to get help before you spiral into a real crisis. Government or not, if you can't sleep you're going to need to go somewhere for help eventually.

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

Yeah, but zersetzung was used against credible political targets. Not against some random guy that can't get laid.

MrHand,

I’m not a random guy who can’t get laid. I spoke forthrightly about incel macro issues, got put on a watchlist, am subjected to intrusive monitoring and fed harassment (sleep deprivation, various other things) etc etc.

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

None of those things happened because no one cares that you talked about incel macro issues

MrHand,

are you saying you are privy to why they really happened (and you acknowledge that they happened?)

nicktron,
nicktron avatar

Nothing happened. Nothing is happening. Nobody is watching you. Nobody cares pal. You’re an insignificant nobody just like the rest of us. No government enforcement agency is going to waste resources “spying” on and “sonically harass” on some fella who doesn’t know how to talk to women. Get a grip.

Go see a doctor, fix your life, be a healthy and happy person.

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

And how did they do that exactly?

MrHand,

They’ve shutdown all incel spaces across the web and worked with tech platforms like reddit to likewise ban incel spaces. They set up honeypot forums in their place operated by feds so ANY would be incel poster gets scrutinized. When the person ends up in that space and says something a fed doesn’t like, they’re immediately hacked and subject to NSA tools. I became aware of this when, a month or so after posting on incels.is, I started receiving “advice” based on content retrieved from my phone! It goes much further than that – they use metrics to see what threads a reader (not even a user) clicks on and then hack that user. They are often surprised that so many of their readers clicking on violent-endorsing threads by the larping feds end up being women. 😆

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

And how did that cause you to lose your job and sleep?

MrHand,

explained upthread jackass

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

Except no one is doing sonic attacks on your apartment. Insomnia is linked to schizophrenia and can make schizophrenia worse.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4855992/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614792/
https://www.healthline.com/health/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-and-sleep
https://www.sleephealthfoundation.org.au/schizophrenia-and-sleep.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0920996419305237

MrHand,

Considering the resources the government has, they can induce insomnia on an individual in order to get them labeled as schizo, and as I was (am) under intrusive monitoring that might’ve been just the intention so I end up hospitalized and deprived of 2nd amendment rights. Assholes. Indeed, from the FBI’s “Making Prevention a Reality” report, they pretty much say they desire an individual get involuntarily committed solely to deprive them of 2nd amendment rights. That’s very close to saying they’ll undertake action to have that outcome.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/03148d39-fce7-46f1-b5bd-6b98bef8adc0.png

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

That would be an incredibly bad idea as most people with insomnia do not have schizophrenia

MrHand,

…just the ones they want to drive to the madhouse.

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

But that's more work than they need to do to discredit or lock someone up. It makes no sense for them to do that to you. It's much more likely you have a health condition.

MrHand,

but they did and it happened. also incels.is = dhs. incels are subject to political repression.

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

Please at least consider getting mental health just in case you're wrong

MrHand,

Bro they broke into my apartment and replaced my prozac with super-depression inducing crap. I took a few of the pills and fell into super depression. Then they started teasing me on reddit “does he notice? does he notice?” etc etc. The pills were colored differently. Not sure what their purpose was. Plus if I see a therapist they’ll be privy to what I say (under the 9/11 bill they can pull your records.)

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

None of that makes any sense though. To what end would they put all all of this time and effort into? How could the government be so incompetent yet so powerful at the same time?

MrHand,

okay, it doesn’t sense to you, i’m just a yelping loon. please stop interacting with me

Montagge,
Montagge avatar

I think you're sick and you need help

roguetrick,

To be clear, you cannot be held without a judge's order even if you go in voluntarily. They will not keep you for long and based on your symptoms may not even admit you but instead give you resources to use after visiting the ER. I think you're in a good position to head in before a real crisis that will get you involuntarily committed.

MrHand,

For sure, but you can drive someone to insanity by depriving them of sleep. I say I am subject to intrusive monitoring. I realize that if I try to express this to normal everyday people, I will come off as schizo. On top of that to be going around sleepless – a mental zombie – is going to make me look crazier, and make everyone around me think I’m a loon. Maybe this leaves a “trail” of mental-health issue history that, should I snap in public or something, can be used to commit me.

roguetrick,

You will be told that you are having paranoid delusions by healthcare professionals. I am a healthcare professional and am telling you that. We don't expect you to believe us. But what I'm also telling you is that not matter what, you know that you are heading to a crisis without any sleep. Not believing me about that, or other professionals about that, doesn't change the fact that you need help with what you're experiencing. As far as a record goes, a judge decides if you are an ACTIVE threat. Past doesn't matter for that, unless you have a past history of being violent. Being delusional is NOT an active threat.

MrHand,

I’m not having paranoid delusions. This was my experience: I posted on the web forum incels.is – run by DHS – and have since been subject to intrusive monitoring which escalated into direct fed harassment of me in various ways. Part of this “intrusive monitoring” entails monitoring of my communications and online activity. Hence it’s not out of the realm of possibility that some of the people here eager to label my claims as paranoid/delusional are feds…

roguetrick,

I understand that, I'm not particularly trying to build a therapeutic relationship with you to prevent you from thinking I'm a fed. I'm giving you honest advice and expectations as to what you'd experience if you go to the ER, which is what I recommend.

MrHand,

lmao

JoBo,

Blaming others for all your problems is a strong risk factor for doing violence to others. Grow up, get a fucking grip, and you’ll be fine.

MrHand,

but incels.is = dhs

JoBo,

So the fuck what? You’re dangerous. You need help. But that help comes with measures to protect other people from you. Whatever anyone might think of their tactics, they can’t just do nothing. You’re doing this to yourself. Accept whatever help is on offer to climb out of that miserable, bitter, little hole.

MrHand,

If they really thought I was dangerous they wouldn’t have subjected me to sleep deprivation and various harassments…

Excrubulent, (edited )
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I’ll agree that state violence is bullshit. If they really wanted to help people, they could give them counselling, or maybe do something about our nightmarish society that atomises and impoverishes everyone - including men, women and others that fall outside that binary - and drives people to extremism out of desperation.

Unfortunately they are part of the problem. When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. When all you have is state repression, you’re going to treat every problem like political dissidence, and that’s going to create more terrorism, not less.

This something you need to understand: the state and capital are our common enemy. They work together to keep us poor and separated. Women are not your enemy, they are suffering under this system too. Our actual enemies are the ones that want to push narratives that divide us along lines of gender, race, sexuality, ability, poverty, whatever they can find, because the more we blame one another, the less we pay attention to our oppressors, and the less we work together to fight against them.

To everyone else here attacking OP: saying “fuck you, you deserve repression” is not only false, it doesn’t help. This language I’ve used here has been shown to be effective at combating bigotry, probably because it’s true.

To OP, if you don’t understand why you’re being targeted, this article explains how terrorism is being connected with incels, and also why state responses to terrorism aren’t actually all that helpful: theconversation.com/why-charging-incels-with-terr…

MrHand,

I’ve actually said not much that is directly misogynistic. But if I say “the sexual marketplace has taken a polygynous turn,” that’s deemed misogyny. Good article but that advice has went unheeded especially in the United States. Fact of the matter is that incels are POLITICALLY loathed and a politicized justice department has been set loose on them.

Excrubulent,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Coded language like that may not sound misogynist to you, but so many people use it in a misogynistic way that by saying it you are identifying yourself with misogyny whether you want to or not.

Also, sex isn’t a marketplace. People are not products to be consumed, bought or sold.

There is a reason women reject a lot of men, and it’s not because they’re rolling in good dick. It’s because they are afraid of being killed for a start.

I would recommend you spend more time figuring out where your real problems come from. They don’t originate with half of all people, they originate in capitalism and patriarchy. That doesn’t mean the problem is “men”. Patriarchy is bad for men too.

MrHand,

lol just a description of the sexual landscape and it’s polygynous turn is misogyny. and then you run to the government to ban spaces were those ideas are discussed. i bet you’d call him misogynist too

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/231d2cd9-1896-4f31-b21c-16940dcbb00a.png

MrHand,

How am I dangerous? Is it dangerous to say “emergent polygyny is a problem and men have a coalitional interest in rolling it back”? “They” have a selfish interest in self-promotion and guaranteeing work for themselves which is why they’re wolfishly turning on domestic citizens.

JoBo, (edited )

It’s dangerous and deluded and makes you a danger to others, and also to yourself.

I know it’s hard to deal with the self-hatred but turning it outwards will not help you. It will just dig that miserable hole deeper until you cannot climb out of it without doing serious harm. You’re missing out on so much joy simply because you’re too much of a coward to take a look at yourself.

Pandoras_Can_Opener,
@Pandoras_Can_Opener@mander.xyz avatar

Thoughts and prayers!

  • a trans person
MummifiedClient5000,

Get help man

MrHand,

I need sincere help in spreading the fact that incels.is – and their network of related forums – are run by DHS.

pragmaOnce,

God help us, a fucking incel feels victimized

Falmarri,
@Falmarri@lemmy.world avatar

Yikes dude

MrHand,

yikes indeed. that it has come to silencing incels and repressing enough – and that incels.is = dhs – is very much a yikes.

jimmydoreisalefty,

edit: added archive link

They target a lot of groups.

They target “lone-actors”, most likely due to asocial behavior and more extreme view points.

web.archive.org/…/OPSR_TP_TEVUS_Comparing-Lone-Ac…

Direct Link: dhs.gov/…/OPSR_TP_TEVUS_Comparing-Lone-Actor-Terr…

MrHand,

what’s so extreme about the emergent polygyny hypothesis which I enthusiastically endorse? that’s just going after people for their 1st amendment rights. also the larping feds at that dhs run website themselves encourage extremist rhetoric

fubo,

Understanding the ideologies that motivate and support ideological crimes is a pretty useful step for preventing those crimes; also for investigating them once they happen. Same goes for (e.g.) violent religious movements, white-supremacist gangs, etc.

MrHand,

I have no problem with that but incels.is = DHS and violates the civil liberties of its unaware users (who in fact never see content from people like themselves.)

ForgetPrimacy,

I think it’s important to acknowledge that yes, the government absolutely does have shadow organizations that violate American citizens constitutional rights. No one is disputing that.

The point that most people here are trying to help you notice is that there is help. A professional , trained therapist can help. A therapist, if they’re at all qualified, won’t dispute your stances in regard polygyny etc.

What follows includes some assumptions of who you are and I want to acknowledge that these might not look like your struggles. Guessing by analogy of my own experience, you feel a kind of helpless. You understand the situation as it is and you recognize that it is irrational to hope blindly that your understanding is wrong and tomorrow everything is just going to be better. A therapist isn’t paid to tell you that you are seeing your situation incorrectly, a therapist is paid to learn what you tell them you understand the world is like and help you find steps you can take from the position you’re in now.

The ideology you identify with is associated with a tendency toward terrorism / violent actions. That is what everyone here is trying to warn you about. You sound like what a rational person becomes in hopeless situations. Seek a therapist not because they will change your mind but instead so that someone who will work to understand how you’re rational and help you take rational steps from that place to one less hopeless.

MrHand,

The ideology you identify with is associated with a tendency toward terrorism / violent actions. That is what everyone here is trying to warn you about.

This has been hyper-exaggerated by people who don’t like that perspective itself and have lobbied the government to stigmatize it by overly associating it with terrorism. It needn’t have been. It’s politicized horseshit. How is a therapist going to help me after I say incels.is = dhs? I want to share that with the internet not a therapist.

I understand, I could perhaps benefit from a therapist with regards to my personal issues but that’s outside that incels.is = DHS.

intensely_human,

It’s not fair for the government to target anyone who hasn’t broken the law.

MrHand,

they essentially put people in an open air prison (subject to intrusive monitoring) for merely sharing a perspective deemed objectionable by elites who think that perspective becoming commonplace isn’t in their interest.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I think it’s a little fair to monitor groups that border on the edge of committing crimes to make sure they don’t. If someone is going around saying they’re going to kill people, even if they haven’t, I’d keep a fucking eye on them.

Considering how much rhetoric incels and well known terrorist groups share, it doesn’t seem unreasonable why they are included on terrorist watch lists.

MrHand,

I haven’t said I was going to kill people.

MrHand,

what does monitoring entail? it’s one thing if the person is unaware of it but they also let the person know. that’s putting them in prison without trial. also that incels = violent is charged up rhetoric meant to invalidate their perspective.

OwenEverbinde,

Yeah, the FBI has caught bombers by monitoring them before the bombers were able to break the law.

Secretely surveiled them right up until they dropped the duffel bag on the sidewalk.

My memory isn’t great right now, but I think I recall reading somewhere that they catch over a hundred would-be bombers a year.

MrHand,

It goes beyond secret surveillance though – creepy enough as that is. If one were unaware of being surveilled that’s one thing but they let you know so they can take credit for “prevention” even if that person wasn’t going to do anything wrong. So essentially put in an open air prison without trial.

OwenEverbinde,

Ah… So that’s what you’re saying.

Well I can believe it. The CIA once tried to murder Fidel Castro with, like, shaving cream or something one time. Our agencies can go back and forth from “we are a daunting, all-knowing panopticon” into “hi, we’re the Keystone Cops” a dozen times in a weekend.

If that’s the case, and they’re targeting someone who didn’t even get in that deep, then: ouch. My condolences. I hope you if you really aren’t a threat that they figure out they aren’t needed anymore.

MrHand,

Yes but they defined a certain perspective as irredeemably linked to violence, even if that perspective is sociologically true. It’s straight up repression. I’m not the one who mandated that the sexual revolution devolve into polygynous mating habits rendering many men partnerless.

GONADS125,

Let’s not forget the mass killings perpetrated by and celebrated by incels. They are an extremist group and should be monitored as such.

theguardian.com/…/toronto-van-murders-court-victi…

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43892189

abcnews.go.com/US/…/story?id=91388041

nbcnews.com/…/california-man-promoting-incel-ideo…

cbsnews.com/…/incel-threat-secret-service-report/

MrHand, (edited )

The Ohio case was one were feds encouraged that guy up until the point were he was going to do something. In fact, he posted on incels.is and the feds there trump up that one case as a huge victory justifying their work. But they duped him and were egging him on. The California guy didn’t actually do anything. There has been one verifiable incel related mass shooting – Elliot Rodger, and that has been used to tarnish the whole community from a place of distaste. Feminists get to tarnish an emergent group that gives them the jeebies and feds get work to replace the dwindling War on Terror. Indeed, feds control the entirety of the incelosphere now and they self-servingly define it as a place of violence and radicalism. Some soros funded outfit that goes by the name of “Center for Countering Digital Hate” did a report on the incelsophere some months back – but they based their report on incels.is, which is operated by feds. This is straight up lying.

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