A four-panel comic called Pervis by Zach M. Stafford.
The first panel shows a young man in a brown button-down shirt and orange tie standing in a street with a house in the background. The young man is saying “I’m going to buy a house!”
The second panel shows a much older man, now bald but still wearing the brown shirt and orange tie, speaking to a man in a green button-down shirt and green tie. The elderly man is saying “…and that was how I bought a house when I was 23!”
The third panel shows a close-up of the older man’s face, he looks agitated, his eyes scrunched up and his mouth open wide as he yells “I worked at the drive-in all summer for that house!! Nobody wants to work anymore!”
The fourth panel shows the elderly man and the green-shirted man again, this time both are facing away from the viewer and the green-shirted man is holding the end of an electrical plug that he’s just pulled from the wall. The older man is saying “…why are you unplugging my lamp?” To which the green-shirted man responds, “I’m just practicing”
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
They’re so dense. My conservative uncle gave me a bunch of shit for taking out student loans. He worked at McDonald’s over the summers and paid his rent and tuition for the whole year! Meanwhile I was working full time year round going to school, barely making enough to pay rent without enough leftover to make a dent in tuition. Obviously that world doesn’t exist anymore. This was over 10 years ago, I’m sure it’s way worse now. At least I was able to find “affordable” rent.
I live in a small town in the SE US. I bought my house for $89,900, 12ish years ago. There are 3 vacant houses on my street and they are all listed for $250,00 or more. My house is bigger than all of them. They have all been empty for over a year.
Agreed, if no one is resident in the house then the taxes should go way up.
This way any house where the owner isn’t living there and it’s not rented would see the taxes increase quickly. We can even add a multiplier according to how many years the house has been sitting there empty.
In a way, some states do have this. Texas for example has the “homestead tax exemption” which puts a cap on the tax burden increases when prop evals 📈. This is only applicable to one home for the family and they must reside in it. You can’t claim this exemption if you are renting it out or have a summer home in this state.
Maybe the landlords will get really clever and start paying homeless people to live in their units, so they can pay a rock bottom price to avoid the tax …/s
absolutely agree. It’s insane that we allow corporations to hoard housing and artificially jack up the price. I’m just outside the city limits and I see soooo many homeless people now. A lot of them have jobs too, they just can’t afford a place to live. Some local churches have opened up their parking lots for people to sleep in their cars.
I just bought a house in the eastern part of the Midwest in the US. The tax assessment in 2021 for the house was about 193k. In 2023, it’s 275k. That is a 30% increase in 2 years. During those 2 years, nobody lived in the house, and no improvements were made in that time. Neat! My mortgage is still about the same as my rent for a 2br apartment in Oregon earlier this year. I suspect the Midwest is about to start hating Oregonians as much as Oregonians hate Californians soon!
The real problem is that it doesn’t cost practically anything to not maintain a property like a house. It either should or the concept of a rent should be abolished for that of affordable ownership. The housing bubble is crowdsourced greed.
Wait until Zoomers and Millennials find out that the house grandpa bought was probably under 900 sq feet, didn’t have any AC, had one bathroom and if he was lucky had 2 bedrooms for the 2 adults and 3 kids. And when he furnished it, at most the family had one 13" B&W TV (if they were lucky), the tiniest fridge and the washing machine probably had a handle which you needed to crank by hand and the dryer was the clothesline out in the tiny backyard.
Every prospective homebuyer under 35 these days would turn their nose to a house that small and with such few amenities. And god forbid it actually needed some work done to it. With how mechanically inept (and lazy) younger folks seem to be these days, they aren’t even willing to look at cheap fixer-uppers to save money in exchange for sweat equity.
Zoomers and Millennials would be lucky to find a small home for sale, as greedy real-estate and construction industries have pretty much decided that building starter homes isn’t profitable. My local 900 ft sq home costs just 20k less than a larger home, and they’re all over 300k
Kids? Who can afford kids? Zoomers and Millennials aren’t likely to be in the position to have multiple kids.
But go on claim a worldwide housing crisis is due to a generation of lazy people and definetly not due to giant investment industry that 's squatting on top of housing. Did you have to fight airBNB to get a bid in in your day, grandpa?
Ah yes the classic blaming the children for what their parents did re: participation awards. No wonder you’re so fucking stupid. I’m sure you had literally everything handed to you by your parents to have those views, because there’s literally no fucking chance that someone who is actually working from nothing could possibly think like that. I refuse to believe that level of stupidity exists.
You’re projecting grandpa. You were the participation award generation. You had it all handed to you and you preserved NONE of it for the next generation. And thats going to be the legacy of your generation.
Societies grow great when old men plant trees in whose shade they’ll never sit, not when you raze the forest to the ground for ‘as seen as TV’ garbage from China, you asshole.
I wish I was old, but good luck using that an an insult. Clowns like you think anyone old enough to drink is just a few short years away from needing a cane.
Come up with more excuses for all your generation’s failures. You’re going to need a whole hell of a lot of them because those failures keep on coming.
Don’t worry, when you come up with elders like yourself who start blaming the sins of the parents on the children by 5 years old (who really made participation awards happen? The kids or the parents?), you get pretty impervious to bullshit blame games.
I love the Gen X’rs who spout boomer “back in my day” lines with zero self-awareness that they’re in the same boat as the rest of us.
They forget that they were the OG slacker generation, but maybe if they shit on millennials and zoomers enough the boomers will finally let them drive lmao!
I’ve heard that before, then you tell someone they might have to add 10 minutes to their commute, or you tell them the closest Starbucks is 15 minutes away, or Gb internet wasn’t offered, or some other lavish luxury that people are spoiled with these days wasn’t available, and all of a sudden it is a dealbreaker.
Used to be in the /realestate sub on Reddit and the number of spoiled buyers who would endlessly complain about not being able to find a house was infuriating. And when you’d point out to them that with their budget maybe since they were single and had no kids, they might not actually need a 3 bedroom house, they would get all snippy.
Man, I saw houses in Portland that were smaller than 900 sq ft, did not have central AC, no appliances, and had water damage and wires ripped from the walls above $200k. That’s not the case in all markets, but it is for a great many. Get on Zillow and start looking around as if you were in the market. Ask yourself if you’d be willing to offer some of these asking prices.
I’m English so can’t comment on the situation in the US, but reading the comments in this thread it seems quite similar to the one here.
I bought a house in 2010, just before I turned 23 and I’m very much the exception to the rule. I live in an area with some of the lowest house prices in the country. I didn’t go to University and got my first full time job when I was 19. It didn’t pay well but I lived at home and I was a stoner. I didn’t go out much, just to friend’s houses to get high. My town is walkable enough that I didn’t need to drive (I get that not driving isn’t really possible in the US, or even in some parts of the UK).
This meant I saved up a lot of my money without really trying. The house I bought cost £41,000. I sold it in 2022 for £39,000 which should give you some idea of the state of it.
My Dad bought a house in 1986 for £12,000. I can see that house from the one I live in now, which cost me £79,000 in 2022.
Which city is it? I would very much like to move in. The housing market is so ridiculous now that even in my crappy city, in a terrible country that lost millions due to COVID, and is now at a goddamn war losing thousands of people by day, the prices are still skyrocketing. Currently, even the cheapest 12m² room inside an ex-USSR barrack costs like 20 grand, and the situation is even worse outside the cities.
Fore 3 years ago we bought a house in a decent size city at £103K at 133m2 in Denmark, and the houses prices is still pretty much the same the prices have gone up £11k on our house but mostly because I have renovated over the time.
But here in Denmark if you buy a house you pretty much need to could renovate by our self, because the professional is extremely expensiv, if I needed to hire a professional to replace my roof it would cost us £100k and I can do it by my self for £10k.
1 Krone is $0.14 USD. Holy shit. $14k for a roof? I just got mine done for $6k by a pro here in the US - I thought about doing it myself but realized that I’m a father now, have zero safety equipment or roof replacing skills (lack of experience never usually stops me) and knees that now randomly dislocate for no reason, and I’d probably die. That said, it would still have cost me more than $1.5k in materials. How can folks afford such prices? How can the market sustain such prices?
I didn’t know what the symbol for Krone is and incorrectly assumed they use the pound symbol (they don’t - Kr is the symbol). 100k pounds for a roof is absolutely insane, and now I absolutely need more explanation as to why.
And why the prices fore a professional is so damn high in Denmark is becous the labor force is very well paid in these proffesions, so price is: 50-60% salary, 10-30% taxes, the rest is material.
And the symbol is “DKK” i don’t think there is symbol like $.
Yes I figured as much from the “for 3 years ago”, which is totally Danglish, “3 years ago” is enough.
Sorry, I just found it funny, that I figured a Dane wrote that from the first 3 words.😀
And yes professionals are really expensive, USD 100k to replace an entire roof doesn’t even sound expensive, if it includes materials, it’s sounds dirt cheap.
Edit I just checked prices, and apparently you can get a new roof for a 100m2 house approximately 1000 ft2, for about USD 10000.
In Denmark, the cost equivalent of a roof replacement is 100k UK pounds? That price in the US is so high it shocks the conscience unless you’re talking about a mansion or doing some special kind of roof material like slate and hiring only engineers with advanced degrees as laborers.
I think I specified USD = US dollar, but that is cheap, our neighbor got an offer of USD 160000 for a house of about 180m2. That was with ceramic tiles, but afaik it’s not that much cheaper even if you chose cheaper materials, I think the cheapest was about USD 120000.
Edit
I have been misinformed, I looked up prices and you can get a new roof for a 100m2 house approximately 1000 ft2, for about USD 10000.
Oh, Canada, I wish you were my home and adopted land. Don’t know where the most affordable city is (and I won’t ask you), but Jeff Jacques (questionablecontent comic) has me pretty interested in Halifax/Nova Scotia.
Wherever you are it is better than here. We are on the cusp of an economic crisis. Ironically its our massively over inflated houseing sector thats putting us under.
US housing is unaffordable as well, but we’ve got mass shootings, 25% of our voters are white evangelicals that believe the earth is 6,000 years old and that we don’t need to worry about the environment because the more fucked it is, the faster a vengeful Jesus will come and crush non-evangelicals like grapes till the blood runs thick in the streets. I’d take a convoy of idiot truckers playing American over what we’ve got going down here any day. (EDIT: sorry, 25% of the GOP voting base, which is still awful but not as awful as I previously stated)
No, I bought a house for £41k. Not sure of the currency exchange rate at the time and how that relates to now, but pretty sure it’s always going to be above $45k
Those house prices sounds absolutely insane to me.
I’m also in the UK, but I’m in the South East, so house prices are very high. Still managed to find a “cheap” house recently due to the location being a bit rough.
For comparison, my house that I’m buying is £345k (it’s 2 bedrooms with a separate garage and 2 bathrooms). I saved up a £125k deposit by living with my parents for the longest time (I think it took me about a decade). The exception being for 3 years when I house shared - the rent was £325 per month with bills included, but my room was effectively a glorified cupboard.
I will also say that I was saving lots and lots of money with my old job. I’m a software developer, so my salary was good (started off at £22.5k, went up to £45k with about 10 years experience and being a senior dev, then our company got bought out and my salary went up to £55k). A year later and I switched jobs as the annual salary increase was £150 (for the whole year). Ended up with a £75k salary w/ bonus, private healthcare, etc etc. I really lucked out at that moment.
As to why I didn’t buy a house earlier with my deposit, there was two reasons:
I had saved up about £100k before for personal savings, then that money went to help a sibling (call this sibling A) with their property. My parents sold a property aborad to effectively give me back the money, but the money was split between me and another sibling’s bank account (call this sibling B) because of financial advice given by my uncle. What then happened was sibling B didn’t give me back the money and was being incredibly difficult about the money, and since they have a history of being difficult in general, I decided I was going to save that money instead.
Sibling A wanted to start their own business, but it effectively flopped for all sorts of reasons. They had amassed a loan of £15k, and I helped pay that off. This was while sibling B was being incredibly difficult.
Main reason: At the time, I didn’t know if I really wanted to stay at the job for so long, and if I did want to stay, I didn’t want to move into the area where my job was - despite the convenience, the area was incredibly rough - almost GTA like (and that is no exagerration). I didn’t know where I wanted to live, and the places I would be interested in, I effectively had no clue as I was living with my parents at the time.
So yeah, buying a house in the South of UK isn’t easy at all. It requires a ton of patience and luck.
My house has 2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom and no garage. It is, I’d say, in the second worst part of town but crime rates here are still fairly low. I paid over 4 times less for it than yours just 17 months ago.
TBF house prices here have increased since then and you’re looking at around £100k minimum for a place like this now, but still, that’s mental.
My grandparents bought a house on a corner lot in the northwest suburbs of Chicago for $6000. Which was about a years salary for Grampa, who worked as a welder. This was in the late 60s.
It’s disgusting. And even more disgusting at America and Canada’s disregard for the unavailability of owned housing at an even remotely appropriate cost.
I’m GenX as well and I will straight up admit that my wife and I got lucky, purchased a house in a “distressed” neighborhood in Portland because it was all we could afford, and now, 20 years later, the neighborhood is fully gentrifying and our house and property is worth way more than what we owe on it.
I’m conflicted as to how to feel about it. While on the one hand we very innocently bought the place because it was in a shitty neighborhood and was all we could afford, on the other hand I now know that we were what the urban studies people refer to as “bohemian colonizers,” meaning that without knowing it, we were, by moving into the neighborhood as poor artist types, part of a much longer process of gentrification.
Again, I am of several minds regarding how I feel about the whole thing.
I feel bad because I think the house I sold went to a landlord. At the time it didn’t really occur to me that a cash offer probably implied land lord. I put some blame on my real estate agent for pushing lower cash offers over higher loan offers but it still makes me upset. The HOA in that neighborhood only allower 10% of the homes to be rented out and when we moved in they had a ton of signs saying that. I assumed that would be the case when we were selling.
It was one of the nicest while still being affordable townhomes in the area.
It doesn’t keep my up at night or anything but at the same time it’s not like I’m going to be selling my current house soon. It’s an opportunity you only get so often.
Meh, gentrification is the result of bad policy, not personal, individual choices (except maybe for people flipping houses and landlords). Neighborhoods, and the people in them, should not stay poor forever. Rent controls, grants for people to start businesses or coops or whatever, allowing mixed-use zoning, and stuff like that can reduce the harmful affects of gentrification.
Where I’m from, the median house price has risen 600% relative to median income since the 70’s.
That means that we’re dropping more than the entire value of their home as our deposit, while we compete against capital-heavy boomers that benefited from that growth looking to downsize.
There’s a reason they could have a house and 12 kids on a single summer job income - they were handed a strong economy that they ransacked for their own benefit before blaming the poor schmucks that are inhereting the stripped wreckage they’ve left behind. Couple that with the cost of the massive environmental pivot we’ll need to make to survive as a species, and I’m sure you’ll forgive me for wanting to drive the nose of the next boomer that preaches about smashed avocado toast and bootstraps through the back of their skull.
I’m fascinated by how idioms have gone a complete 180. Now we tell people that they just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but that idiom is used to describe an impossible task. You can’t pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, it’s literally impossible. Same with it’s just a few bad apples to excuse bad behaviour. The idiom is a few bad apples ruins the barel, that one bad person or thing jeopardizes the whole thing. I don’t get it.
People are rather ignorant as a whole. Many of us here probably use our brains for genuine thought, but I find that to be the exception.
Look at the shit people focus on as important and how they mimic what they see and parrot what they hear and it becomes clear how they can’t even get simple sayings right.
Also I put my hand into a bag of apples last night and my finger dug into a rotten spot in one apple with mold in it. Thankfully it didn’t get a chance to spread… close one.
Last month I had this random conversation with an old lady while on vacation. She mentioned that quite lightheartedly, that “we bought our house just on our salaries, we worked hard back then and needed to settle down”. I wasn’t expecting to have to explain to her that this is not such an easy option for us right now. She seemed genuinely surprised and disappointed at the facts and I didn’t know whether to feel enraged or amused by her true or not ignorance.
Addressed this earlier, I mean I don’t blame you for not picking it up it’s since grown into a quite a comment tree. But no, my parents are doing average and I’m getting none of the average other than the socks they get me for christmas.
48k is a bargain though. I mean I checked google maps and yeah Toledo looks kinda ass (sorry Toledoans) but that’s a steal especially considering it was the boom before -08 bust. Prolly could’ve got a nice subprime to along with it.
That’s interesting because at the time, I knew the housing market was falling, and it felt like it was at the bottom when I bought. Previous the same house had been valued at near 70k.
It turns out that shitty places like Toledo were foreshadowing the crash.
The next year in 08, the market value of the house got as low as $25k
but that would take an unreasonable amount of work and effort
and your hesitation in comparison because of said difficulty is precisely the reason i did.
I feel like maybe there’s a language barrier or you hate the joke, dunno. The comic works because buying a house is harder than in the past and trying to convince some people of that is often impossible. Rather than understand, some people seem almost like they would rather not understand.
If you keep looking, you might find one of those folks yourself
The comic works because buying a house is harder than in the past and trying to convince some people of that is often impossible.
I never argued it’s as easy as it used to be. I mean, I didn’t buy a house when I was a baby, but my parents did (when I was a baby, not them) and they didn’t have any issues afaik. I surely had to work way harder than they ever did for a home that was arguably worse in quality and I never said otherwise.
The comic to me seems to imply the idea that to buy a home you’d have to do something ridiculous and unreasonable (such as letting your dad die earlier), which isn’t the case. It is more ridiculous and less reasonable than it used to be, I’m not arguing that at all.
Are you somehow magically bound to the place you live right now? My point never was that you could work at walmart for a year slipping tips down your sock until you can reach the downpayment for your malibu villa, if you don’t mind me exaggerating.
Not magically. Financially, socially, practically. Moving is expensive, viable places to live may shred your social connections, assuming your profession exists where you want to go.
Don’t pretend moving is easy on any level. No, you didn’t explicitly say that it was, but you implied it. Hiding behind semantics like you’re doing is very bad faith.
Just FYI I’m not the smart-ass type a poster with whom you have to write those disclaimers at the end for, though I can relate to the need to do so lol. If I have misread something - which I’ve done - I’ve noted it.
Moving isn’t “easy” per se, but it was far from impossible. There are always folk to make friends with, even if you move to the county some other commenter said had “4/5ths of the population afraid of the gays taking their guns”, which I found funny, it leaves with 1/5th of the people who seem nice enough to talk to. I do admit here that I come from a country where a call to someone per year is considered high social activity. Financially, it paled in comparison to the house itself and for all I know could be lumped as an insignificant factor to the cost of the house. Unless you get a friend with a van and some elbow grease which cuts costs substantially. Now the practicality-problems I do admit wholeheartedly I fucking hate packing and unpacking, but you have to do that regardless of how far you’re moving.
You’re partially correct. There are plenty of people for whom it is difficult but not impossible. The finances often seem more insurmountable than they are (said as someone who’s purchased two houses before I was 30. I’m very lucky).
That said, being poor is expensive (See: Vimes’ Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness). Hard to put up a down payment when you can barely afford to eat, which is a reality for a lot of people. One setback (like your shitty car finally giving up) will lock you in wherever you are more often than not. And even for the more fortunate, things like what you just mentioned become a serious reality. It’s all well and good to point at affordable homes in the country, but that 4/5 of the population you mentioned has a habit also being the kind that “don’t like your kind around here” on the subject of the gays (said as a gay man who grew up in such places). Be happy that you only have such a consideration as an annoyance, not something that could kill you. I am not being hyperbolic.
The argument “just move” is often made from a privileged position. Doesn’t make anyone a bad person to not have experienced such hardship, but it does tend to point to a person not realizing the enormity of the task they are glibly asserting as an option. For the people that have, it comes across as arrogant and blind (not necessarily that you are that).
I am completely aware that nothing is more expensive than being poor. But if I can nitpick just a bit, I would never have my day-to-day life be reliant on a car. I personally don’t own a car because I don’t want to be reliant on it, it costs like a bag of cocks and car-brainism is a disease. I just walk from place to place, it’s cheap as shit and keeps you in shape. And yes, I’ve also lived in the sticks, and yes, I still walked. But on that note yeah, something like an accident that leaves you immobilized for a while or something is quite destructive financially. Though, I’d call that more of an outlier than myself.
And yeah I’m white straight cis myself, the country fellas would prolly like me tbh, and am not really in touch with the realities of the yeehaw-lifestyle. I find it difficult to believe some folk actually care about anyone’s sexuality, but I doubt I’m alone on that. It’s not really an experience I’d feel comfortable commenting further on so I’ll take an L on that, but there must be cheap places to live in the US that don’t necessarily involve being hunted down for your lifestyle preferences.
I’d assert that you’re the outlier on that one, but am willing to agree to disagree. US infrastructure passionately hates foot traffic most places. This assumes you are in the US, so it may be a bit apples and oranges there.
I’ve found most people really don’t care, or don’t care enough to be violent assholes about it. But the ones that do care have a tendency to be dangerous. And in isolated places like small towns, it’s real easy to follow the herd on things like that if you don’t personally know someone who’s gay. The issue there is more that you can’t really tell that about a place easily when you’re looking so it’s a bit Russian roulette.
Side note, without judgement: I wouldn’t recommend referring to being LGBT+ as a ‘lifestyle preference’. It implies that it’s a choice, which has been a sticking point for a long time. No one chooses to be an oppressed minority.
US infrastructure passionately hates foot traffic most places.
Sure, if you live in a literal gridmap (of which I’ve seen pics and yeah nah, pass) but even googling “US suburban hellscape” brings multiple pictures of suburbia with alright sidewalks. And I live in the main car-brain purgatory of my country which actively and purposefully fucks over pedestrians but it’s still fine, feet don’t need all that much to get you from place to place. Going offroad is serene when you’re unbound by the limitations of the tire.
I’ve found most people really don’t care, or don’t care enough to be violent assholes about it.
For sure, but it takes just one.
I wouldn’t recommend referring to being LGBT+ as a ‘lifestyle preference’
Thanks for the heads up mate, translated the phrase from my native language, where I think it’s fine to say, but admittedly I’m now frantically looking into is it really. I hope hatred towards anyone doesn’t seep from my comments. I only and exclusively hate on weebs, commies and furries, which are all the same people really.
I have no cosigners on my loan and my parents aren’t all that wealthy, not that it matters unless you count the socks I get each christmas as a gift from them large enough to warrant such financial relief.
And I make around 30k a year (4-day workweek btw, excluding summer months) and am single.
Like I said I too was surprised at how easy it was, literally try it before knocking. Though admittedly interest rates were much easier a few years back when I applied for the loan, so that probably changes your mileage.
Just adding context to it all, buying a house is entirely possible without too much effort and I doubt many of the doomers here have actually tried to own a home. I get the sentiment and how easy it is to fall to despair but try it before you knock it.
If that motivational speech doesn’t get your gears on a roll, let me remind you that by paying rent you are literally feeding the parasites known as landlords, rewarding them for fucking you over, and positively reinforcing that leechy lifestyle they live. Make an effort to be your own lord and fuck yourself over.
Just like your attempt at winning an argument dude took the reigns and fucked himself over, people like this are the ones that rarely can take it on the chin, Jesus that’s sad.
My man are you good? There is no argument, I’m not yelling at you for not being a houseowner or arguing for or against any philosophical or political ideology lmao. I’m just saying it’s entirely possible to buy a home, while acknowledging that it’s super easy to fall into despair like I did. If you choose to not try then don’t, it’s just sad to see you rather help your Lord to live a wealthier lifestyle.
Why you decide to be mad at me is something I really don’t understand but it’s fine.
What is “too much effort” to others is definitely not the same as “too much effort” to you.
Are you above the median income for your age group? If so then your not too much effort could easily be way too much effort for more than half the people in your age group.
Checked the stats and I did slightly less than median income of my age group then (~2500€/month vs a median of 2966€/month). And honestly my effort was to home cook as much as I could and not spend money on things I didn’t need. The unironic boomer-tips I know, but it worked.
Maybe my distaste for avocado toast was enough in the end.
As someone who just bought a house this year. I think your case is an outlier. My wife and I make decent money, and didn’t want anything too big. But it still took 3+ years of saving and living in a sketchy part of town just to get a down payment. As rent was increasing and the market was increasing. It would be entirely impossible for someone who is barely scraping by to afford a down payment on a house in a metro or suburb.
It’d be interesting to compare budgets. Not because I want to lecture anyone on avocado toasts and netflix subscriptions but I find it really difficult to figure out where your money goes. I mean I know folks in the US (which I assume yous are from) pay more in weird shit like insurances and stuff that’s mostly granted by social services here, but my income is way lower especially compared to tax rate which provides those services. And just for reference my mates who want to own a house, own a house. Some of them are still moving a every now and then from town to town so it makes sense to stay on rent but yeah I started this thread on the point that it doesn’t take much effort into getting a house.
Possible and feasible are two different things. It’s possible for everyone in America to buy a house, there is no law against it, but it’s not feasible for everyone to. This concept of “you just need to work harder and you can” is the brain dead, privileged AF fallacy this is calling out.
Do the math - Median house price, median wage of a 20-something, median cost of living.
How would an average 20-something achieve this without assistance?
It’s not impossible, but do you think that’s what we should be shooting for as the leaders of the developed world - you win with intergenerational wealth or a snowball’s chance in hell? Have a little more pride in your country and be less cucked by the interests of those that have ransacked the economy.
Have a little more pride in your country and be less cucked by the interests of those that have ransacked the economy.
I just pointed this out to someone else here, but how I see it, doomer-propaganda like this comic is exactly what keeps the status quo. Making young people scared enough to not even try to improve their situation is exactly what keeps their positions untouched.
I mean we here had this same type a sentiment shoved down our throats, press talking about how impossible it is for young people out there. That was true to me, until I tried out and learned that nah, it aint that bad. Badder than what it used to be, for sure, but not that bad at all.
If you look at the data, the problem is objectively not young people.
I’m about to buy a house in a market where median property value has risen 6x faster than median income since the 70s, meaning I’m being lectured by people who took out a 30 year mortgage to pay off what I’ll have to drop as my deposit (relative to median income). I’m also bidding against the beneficiaries of that capital growth now that they’re downsizing, and my generation’s survival relies on us paying to correct the environmental vandalism they’ve done too.
This is intergenerational class war that’s stomping the brakes on the economy as the majority pours everything they have into keeping a roof over their heads. I’m glad you managed it, but things are dark, and we should be doing better.
If you look at the data, the problem is objectively not young people.
Never said it was.
I’m about to buy a house in a market where median property value has risen 6x faster than median income since the 70s
Glad that’s on you radar and you seem committed to it! But is it necessary to buy a property from exactly where the prices have skyrocketed like that? Maybe you do due to work-related issues or something that I don’t know and doesn’t really concern me, but it’s something to think about. Though the folk in this thread have made it look like Finnish property prices have stagnated since the war, that is not the case it some areas where the pricing is absurd but I just didn’t move there, simple as.
I’m also bidding against the beneficiaries of that capital growth now that they’re downsizing
That’s true and I wish you the best of luck in beating them. Just think of the mad landlord who got fucked over by a millennial scrub and you’ll get to sleep your nights good.
This is intergenerational class war
I wouldn’t perhaps go that guillotinie on it, but yeah, what motivates me is causing trouble and havoc among the people I dislike, landlords being one of them. And if I won the bidding war for this house against someone looking to rent it, I know my cock will stay hard for years to come, and I can’t wait to do it again, and I will no matter what encourage people to try to do it too.
I didn’t have issues. Saved for about a year, nothing crazy, and asked for a loan. Now I own a nice two-story house about a 15 minute walk from the city center. I don’t really get this “buying a home is impossible” -meme, I believed that too before I actually tried and was surprised how easy it was.
Imma be honest, I’m not from the US so I have only a superficial knowledge of what a credit score is, but I’d reckon that’s something you can affect, no?
Just saying that despite the memes it’s completely possible for a normal dude to buy themselves a home. I believed the meme until I tried. The more people I get to try buying a house, the more people get to buy a house, making their lives better and landlords lives worse which is a great win-win in my books.
Why fall into despair when there are things you can do to help your situation is what I’d ask you, knowing full well you didn’t answer the question I laid.
That would be because the question is as ridiculous as asking a blind person why they don’t just open their eyes so they can see.
Just because you may judge it is ridiculous doesn’t mean it actually is ridiculous.
If you’re having an intellectually honest conversation with someone, and they ask you a question to make their point, you really are supposed to answer it and not avoid answering it.
By avoiding answering the question you basically signal that you can’t answer the question for whatever reason, not that it’s not worth answering, and that your side of the argument is weak.
You can’t have an intellectually honest conversation if there is a bad actor. Intellectual conversations of any kind are predicated on at least two parties doing the mental work necessary to understand the other side, rather than arguing simply for a feeling of being right.
The moment a question like that is posed, it’s no longer an intellectual conversation, it’s one person put in the position of teaching something basic to someone who doesn’t want to learn. No adult owes that to anyone, unless they are being paid to do it.
The moment a question like that is posed, it’s no longer an intellectual conversation, it’s one person put in the position of teaching something basic to someone who doesn’t want to learn.
That’s one hell of an assumption / straw man you have there.
I would challenge you to consider that you might be incorrect about that, to consider not doing that classification if it’s just questions you don’t like, or more importantly, don’t have an answer to.
So when you want information you have to pull up your big boy pants and ask for it.
Well 2 really jump out and illustrate my point, lets see, you said:
I doubt that’s the case in all of the US, there must be places with more modest prices.
There must? I mean you just admit in that sentence that you don’t know but you doubt (based on nothing), then go right off into an assumption and using that assumption ad justification.
Imma be honest, I’m not from the US so I have only a superficial knowledge of what a credit score is
So you’re not from the US, which means you lack knowledge by just not knowing the laws, culture, systems, etc. But you then go on to say you only have a superficial knowledge of what a credit score is, a VERY large part of buying a house.
You don’t know fundamentals of how buying a house in the US works but you feel confident in telling people that you’re really helping them out by saying “Buy don’t rent” like it’s some huge revelation.
There must? I mean you just admit in that sentence that you don’t know, then go right off into an assumption and using that assumption ad justification.
OMG, guys, he found a single house. The housing crisis is over, someone alert the press. This single house destroys the entire market shift that is happening right now, we need to alert real estate companies. What an idiot. The fact you think this proves your point just shows how naive you are lol.
Pro tip, maybe read the things you send. Like the fact that the property is an online-only foreclosure sale? You know what that means right? Who am I kidding, of course you don’t lol.
Bro I know you’re a kid but please
I think grandpa needs to go back to bed. I’m a kid? Based on what? I’ve told you I own a house and I’m in my mid 30s… You really weren’t kidding when you said you know nothing.
Googled “real estate ohio” and that was the literal first option of the first page that popped up. Really had to dig deep for that gem. Think that’s the only cheap house in the country though.
In all honesty, no one with a matured frontal lobe is that emotional, actually spazzing out to strangers online. I literally do not believe you to be an adult.
Googled “real estate ohio” and that was the literal first option of the first page that popped up. Really had to dig deep for that gem. Think that’s the only cheap house in the country though.
Really love how you glossed over the fact that you linked an online-only foreclosure house to prove your point of affordable housing. Hey when you can’t dispute the facts, ignore them.
In all honesty, no one with a matured frontal lobe is that emotional, actually spazzing out to strangers online. I literally do not believe you to be an adult.
I mean coming from the guy saying people should be able to afford houses without even knowing what a credit score is, that means nothing. Talking about purchasing a home without knowing what a credit score is, well that’s literally how children talk about buying a home. Also the fact that you don’t seem to understand what a foreclosed house is and why it’s not “an affordable house” also makes me think you’re a child. Adults know and understand these things, and you will too one day.
Ah sorry I forgot the money paid for them is actually 10-fold. Lmao, keep grasping straws for as long as you need bud
that means nothing
Seems to mean everything to you. I mean, you LOVE misery. Otherwise you would’ve closed this tab like a day ago. It’s actually and legitimately sad to see young people getting addicted to rage. No matter the irrefutable points I bring forth, you must not make your Lords life any harder. You will go to hell for them as long as it means you don’t have to take control of your life or admit that there are things you can do to improve your life.
Ah sorry I forgot the money paid for them is actually 10-fold. Lmao, keep grasping straws for as long as you need bud
What, it’s ten-fold? No… Do you know what foreclosure means? Do you know how that impacts inspections and negotiations? Do you know how it impacts insurance? I mean I’m just a dumb kid right, could you explain those things to me?
Seems to mean everything to you. I mean, you LOVE misery. Otherwise you would’ve closed this tab like a day ago.
Oh you think I’m miserable? Dude, I’m clowning you nonstop. I’ve screenshotted a comment you made and posted it in my work chat for us to laugh at. I’m far from miserable, I think you’re a big joke and I’m enjoying the laugh.
It’s actually and legitimately sad to see young people getting addicted to rage.
Well then give it up, you don’t have to be addicted man.
No matter the irrefutable points I bring forth
Big big lol. Big lol. “Irrefutable points” lol. From the guy who doesn’t know what a credit score is or what a foreclosed house even means. You are the definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Oh you think I’m miserable? Dude, I’m clowning you nonstop. I’ve screenshotted a comment you made and posted it in my work chat for us to laugh at. I’m far from miserable, I think you’re a big joke and I’m enjoying the laugh.
I’m so sorry but jfc this is literally the most smirk-crying-wojak post I’ve seen. It’s perfect in every way. I don’t even know what to say I’m flabbergasted. I’m sorry but I will return the favour
Wait, so what I did was “literally the most smirk-crying-wojak post you’ve seen” but you’re going to do the exact same thing. Well, at least you’re consistent in your hypocrisy.
Wow, seems like you’re starting to dodge and run away as soon as I ask a hard question that would make you face your absurdity. Wow, I could have never anticipated this…
Lol, when someone can’t defend their point they attack the person. Please be less transparent.
So do you ever plan on trying to back your point or have you just accepted that you’re an absolute fool and are trying to save face now in the most childish way possible. I mean, I thought you were a child for many reason before, this is really just driving it home, I can’t believe you spent time on that, wow. Top-tier pathetic try-hard my dude.
I get you might think I’m cringe, but look at your post history everyone thinks you’re cringe and an idiot. And the weird idiot thinking I’m cringe doesn’t really bother me that much, people don’t really value that guy’s opinion. I sure as shit don’t lol.
Still waiting for answers to my questions and this mysterious “proof that I’m 16” which I’m really excited for.
Edit: just realized you forgot to have my username in there. Rookie mistake.
I’ve done so all thread. Remind me of something that was unclear to you and I’ll explain it for the 10th time alright? Apologies but I can’t go back on the read messages anymore, there’s some gold there
I can’t believe you spent time on that, wow.
Yes you can. You love misery.
edit: imma hit the bunk now btw, thanks for the earlier comment, it’s still perfect. Imma get back to you tmr, can’t let you miss your rage-appointment
That put you in awe? Yah you legit seem like a child if that put you at awe, not been on the internet much I guess, jesus.
I’ve done so all thread. Remind me of something that was unclear to you and I’ll explain it for the 10th time alright? Apologies but I can’t go back on the read messages anymore, there’s some gold there
You’ve not do so at all lol. I’ve asked you multiple questions about the things you say right after you say them and you ignore my question.
The first one was the first line in a response… Reading comprehension is a really stumper for you huh? Ok, lemme spoon feed it back to you, again. Maybe this time you’ll put those words together and get somewhere.
You: Ah sorry I forgot the money paid for them is actually 10-fold. Lmao, keep grasping straws for as long as you need bud
Myself: What, it’s ten-fold? No… Do you know what foreclosure means? Do you know how that impacts inspections and negotiations? Do you know how it impacts insurance? I mean I’m just a dumb kid right, could you explain those things to me?
So waiting on an answer there.
Also
A person in a small town, with a disability, crippling medical debt, and only 1 or 2 options for a minimum wage job, who has no car. How does that person just work hard and fix it. They have no car, they have special needs that keep them in crushing debt, they have no borrowing power, and they have no money to move to a place with better job opportunities. What does that person do huh? If it really is just that easy, help me figure out how to help that person.
And waiting on an answer here. I mean should be easy enough right?
Yes you can. You love misery.
Wow, more wild assumptions from the resident narcissist. Color me surprised.
imma hit the bunk now btw, thanks for the earlier comment, it’s still perfect. Imma get back to you tmr, can’t let you miss your rage-appointment
Based on your reading comprehension and lack of… well basic intellect I’m sure something shiny will catch your attention by then. They say true idiots are the happiest people on the planet, and you sure seem really happy with yourself. Enjoy that.
Hey, sorry for coming back late, had a bit of an unforeseen overtime type a day!
Do you know what foreclosure means?
Yes. If you’re interested in more information, don’t let me stop you from googling more about them. Please note there are slight differences between states.
A person in a small town, with a disability, crippling medical debt, and only 1 or 2 options for a minimum wage job, who has no car. How does that person just work hard and fix it.
That’s an outlier. How does an inmate with a life sentence buy a house?
Based on your reading comprehension and lack of… well basic intellect I’m sure something shiny will catch your attention by then. They say true idiots are the happiest people on the planet, and you sure seem really happy with yourself. Enjoy that.
Yes. If you’re interested in more information, don’t let me stop you from googling more about them. Please note there are slight differences between states.
I mean you listed a foreclosure, online-only sale as an affordable home. Please tell me how that is an option as your one and only home if you understand what that means.
That’s an outlier. How does an inmate with a life sentence buy a house?
That’s a starwman. Either way, the inmate could still buy a house, they very much could. But you said it was easy, that people just need to do it, that they just don’t want to try and that’s the reason. I gave you an example, a small town person that is trapped and under medical debt. That is not an outlier. I get you’re not from the US, so you don’t know (which makes it even more odd that you would claim it’s an outlier) but it’s not. Big companies like Walmart or Amazon will move to small towns and trap people in these jobs on purpose because they have no options.
But ok, that’s an extreme outlier. What about someone who is working a partime job, they have to work overtime, so no real free time, just to survive day to day. Just to afford to live. They have no credit score or a poor one due to not being able to afford things like health care and sudden expenses like a car breaking. How does that person buy a house? They work 60 hours a week to just make ends meat, thats a reality for tons of Americans, not an outlier at all. How do they buy a house if it’s that easy?
Uh, sleeping is now idiotic?
Lol that’s not what I said, but that being your take away kinda proved my point.
Took like 2 days to come up with such weak material.
Took me 2 days? Dude I legit forgot you existed. I get you might not have a life, but some random idiot online doesn’t rank high on things I think about. I opened the app today and got reminded. That mindset of it “taking 2 days” really makes me think I got some free real-estate up there buddy. Been going to sleep at night replaying it in your head over and over huh? Thinking about come backs in the shower? Lol
As one of them, how is that supposed to change the fact that there are affordable houses in the states?
Oh it doesn’t. The gap between cost of living and income does and that’s will documented. It was just showing how much of an idiot you are to use it as an example.
I’ve given you resources for you to educate yourself
Lol I think you need the education. See what you did wasn’t provide information. You provided a horrible example and then when brought face to face with it you did the most classic deflection of all time “do your research”. If you actually understood how you could explain it. But you don’t, so you can’t, and we both know it, no matter how much you try to save face.
No, it’s an outlier. Not an, uh, star w man?
You’ve never seen a typo? Really, you have so little you’re going after typos? Wait wait, my bad. You may have never seen or even know what the term straw man is, so I can see why you’re confused and you still think it’s just an outlier. Oh to be 13 again.
Lol that’s not what I saidIt’s just what you replied to me going to sleep lmao.
Yes, that’s when I replied. Very good. But you’re still missing the entire point of that message and it’s hilarious to watch you thrash around with your cute little reading comprehension.
Pathetic answer, come up with more of that salty-ass-shit from earlier.
Wow seeing a while lot of high school insults and no substance. Guess that’s what happens when your argument is garbage and based on a transparent lie.
The gap between cost of living and income does and that’s will documented.
So, that isn’t supposed to change the fact? Cost of living can get more expensive yet affordable houses still exist. It’s like your complaining about an orange while eating an apple. Not that you understand the difference.
Lol I think you need the education
Well stop asking it from me lol, what’s your point? Trying to dodge the fact that buying a house is possible as long as you’re not being a bit of a whiny bitch haha?
You’ve never seen a typo?
Just wanted clarification on whether you were talking about Saruman or Star Wars men. Two completely different franchises.
Yes, that’s when I replied.
As idiotic as this sounds, you need to sleep kid.
Wow seeing a while lot of high school insults and no substance.
I’m literally carrying the intelligence and informative side of this conversation.
I’m seething? Well that’s projection if I’ve ever seen it. You think if I was seething I’d be responding right away, like you. But I forgot for days. I can get why you’re mad though, looking through the post again, people are just running all over you. It’s hilarious lol.
So, that isn’t supposed to change the fact? Cost of living can get more expensive yet affordable houses still exist. It’s like your complaining about an orange while eating an apple. Not that you understand the difference.
Lol just when I think you can’t get any dumber you say the gap between cost of living and wage doesn’t matter when buying a house, a literal cost of living. Not even realizing that when cost of all good like food and utilities go up, that what is “affordable” changes, people have less money to buy houses, even if they are cheap. I’m %100 certain you are a teen that doesn’t own a house at this point, no adult is this ignorant of basic economics.
Well stop asking it from me lol, what’s your point? Trying to dodge the fact that buying a house is possible as long as you’re not being a bit of a whiny bitch haha?
So when you want to know if someone actually knows something, you ask them about it. If they actually know about it they’ll tell you, if they don’t know about it they’ll throw a little fit and tell you to look it up on your own. So, that’s my point.
As idiotic as this sounds, you need to sleep kid.
Like a baby, every night. I’m my actual house I own, not my make believe home in my mom’s basement lol.
I’m literally carrying the intelligence and informative side of this conversation.
Lol, and there’s the narcissistic personality. I’ve again asked you questions and posed situations that you’ve not addressed. Just like before. You’re unable or unwilling to address topics I bring up end instead resort to whatever this little tantrum is.
Dude, I’m just dunking on you over and over like a child. Reading through the comments, so are other people. Any rational person would have a little self reflection, take the L, and move on. But not you, your ego clearly will not allow it. So all you’re left with is telling transparent lies and throwing a fit. It’s pathetic man, get some self respect.
Lol just when I think you can’t get any dumber you say the gap between cost of living and wage doesn’t matter when buying a house
Where did I say that lmao? I said they are different things. You can have affordable houses and rising living costs. I mean, my expectations of your intelligence are low but jesus, that’s bad.
So when you want to know if someone actually knows something, you ask them about it.
Why should you when I’m literally right now schooling on you? Literally just told you that houses and living costs are two different things.
Like a baby, every night.
I do not doubt that one bit. Not one bit.
Lol, and there’s the narcissistic personality
Honestly, it’s just realistic. It’s been purely me who’s been bringing in facts, analysis and statistics to this, when you just spout about star wars men and living costs=house costs. Actually lmao
This just really speaks to your ego again. You have to think you know everything, how housing works in a country you don’t even live in or understand. All the way to thinking you know how a stranger online you’ve never met feels. What a lonely life man…
Where did I say that lmao? I said they are different things. You can have affordable houses and rising living costs. I mean, my expectations of your intelligence are low but jesus, that’s bad.
You’re just right there. If one brain cell could just band into another you might get it. Lemme try to break through that ego and actually try to teach you something. Housing is part of cost of living. If cost of living goes up, that means housing costs are going up. If housing costs go up, that means they are not affordable, they are going up. Also what is “affordable” changes, since people have less money due to increase cost across the board. So you saying something ignorant like cost of living and affordable housing are like apples and organs just makes you look like the child you are, trying to have big boy convos you’re not equipped to have. Clearly.
Why should you when I’m literally right now schooling on you? Literally just told you that houses and living costs are two different things.
I mean you’re trying to educate me, but it’s not working well when you don’t know anything about the topic you’re trying to educate people on. Again, you’re trying to dodge the question because it would make you have to admit you don’t know something and are wrong. Easier just to beat your chest and say you know things without ever showing you know a damn thing. If anything you’ve shown over and over how out of your depth you are.
I do not doubt that one bit. Not one bit.
Yah man, try it. When you don’t go around telling BS lies and trying back them without bruising your ego it’s easy.
Honestly, it’s just realistic. It’s been purely me who’s been bringing in facts, analysis and statistics to this, when you just spout about star wars men and living costs=house costs. Actually lmao
You haven’t brought in one fact. You saying you have doesn’t make it so lol. You listed a house and I asked one question about it and you refuse to answer telling me to look myself. I have, I know, that’s why I’m asking the question. I also presented a very common case where people can’t afford a house, a thing you say everyone should be able to do. I asked you how those people would and you just ignored the question. You’ve done nothing but throw some grade school insults and say you’ve show proof without showing any.
when you just spout about star wars men and living costs=house costs.
And this is why you’re an idiot lol. The cost of your house is part of cost of living. You are dead wrong here and you can’t accept it because of that massive ego. You can’t admit when you’re wrong, even if it’s just a google search away. You dont think housing costs have anything to do with cost of living? You want facts, how about this. “The cost of living is the amount of money needed to cover basic expenses such as housing, food, taxes, and healthcare in a certain place and time period.”
That’s not a source lmao. Tell me where I said it, you know, a link or something.
I mean you’re trying to educate me, but it’s not working well
Yeah, hard to reach these kids with tiktoks and all taking your attention
Yah man, try it. When you don’t go around telling BS lies
Are BS lies truths? Do double negatives work like that?
You haven’t brought in one fact.
I mean for sure if you haven’t read my comments, it’s easy to get that impression.
“The cost of living is the amount of money needed to cover basic expenses such as housing, food, taxes, and healthcare in a certain place and time period.”
Hell yeah dude, color me surprised actually. You did do your own research and now we agree that living costs doesn’t equal to house prices. Housing includes stuff like rent AND mortgage among many other things. Hence your comment on living costs=house prices WAS wrong! Just like I told you it’s wrong.
See, the one time you did your research and actually looked into what you’re talking about, you start to agree with me. Isn’t it curious? Or, you know, how I told you to look into foreclosures and after that you haven’t bitched about them either?
Someone more intelligent might come to a realization at this point, but I don’t have high hopes for you despite the flash of sunlight there at the end.
That’s not a source lmao. Tell me where I said it, you know, a link or something.
Linked at the end of my post showing how rising cost of living means rising cost of homes, which means they aren’t affordable.
Yeah, hard to reach these kids with tiktoks and all taking your attention
Lol tiktok, cute, is that the thing all you kids are hooked on now.
Are BS lies truths? Do double negatives work like that?
No they don’t. BS isn’t always a statement to the negative, sometimes it’s just an adjective.
I mean for sure if you haven’t read my comments, it’s easy to get that impression.
It is, it is. But then you read them and you don’t need to have the impression, you know. Just because you link something that doesn’t prove your point then dodge questions about it, that doesn’t make it a “fact” lol.
Hell yeah dude, color me surprised actually. You did do your own research and now we agree that living costs doesn’t equal to house prices.
It says “basic expenses such as housing”, expenses are quantified as prices. It is literally saying that cost of living is includes housing prices… I never said your cost of living was ONLY housing prices. But housing price is the largest expense in most cases. I get living with your mom she pays for everything so you might not realize it, but it is.
Housing includes stuff like rent AND mortgage among many other things. Hence your comment on living costs=house prices WAS wrong! Just like I told you it’s wrong.
Jesus fuck dude. Cost of living includes the cost of being in a home. The biggest expense to being in a home is not your gas bill, it’s your rent/mortgage. At this point, you’re willingly burying your head in the sand. Remember what I said earlier about actually taking the time to learn instead of assuming you’re right? Maybe try that.
See, the one time you did your research and actually looked into what you’re talking about, you start to agree with me.
What? I don’t agree with you at all, and you just said I was wrong. Dude your ego is a legit problem, like legit talk to someone. You don’t do research assuming your right, you’re shown you’re wrong and can’t accept it, then when facts are shown proving you wrong you try to act like they back your point. Dude you are legit delusional.
Or, you know, how I told you to look into foreclosures and after that you haven’t bitched about them either?
I gave up because you refuse to speak on it outside “do your won research”. I did, they are viable. Instead of demanding proof nonstop how about you provide some to back your point? Tell me how an online-only, no inspection, as is foreclosure is a viable affordable home. I’ve stopped asking because I’ve accepted the fact that when you’re wrong you do nothing but name call and dodge questions. It’s a clear pattern here, most likely driven by your massive ego.
Someone more intelligent might come to a realization at this point, but I don’t have high hopes for you despite the flash of sunlight there at the end.
I mean this is a nothing statement that’s just fluffing yourself up. When you have no substance it’s all talk, like this. I get it, you think you’re very smart, no matter how many times your proven wrong of made to face the reality that you aren’t.
Lets not forget I’m the only one of us actually backing my claims up.
rising cost of homes, which means they aren’t affordable.
That’s not what it means. Rising cost of homes means rising cost of homes. Less affordable for sure, but not unaffordable. Like, third grade logic would’ve get you there mate.
BS isn’t always a statement to the negative
So “BS lies” means what exactly in this context?
I never said your cost of living was ONLY housing prices.
Lets not forget I’m the only one of us actually backing my claims up.
Saying something over and over doesn’t make it true. I’ve asked you to back up your claims multiple times and have gotten nothing lol. I’ve asked simple questions and you’ve dodged them. Because we both know I’m right but your ego won’t let you accept it. Keep saying it, you might convince yourself. With an ego that massive it’s not hard.
That’s not what it means. Rising cost of homes means rising cost of homes. Less affordable for sure, but not unaffordable. Like, third grade logic would’ve get you there mate.
Jesus, it’s exactly what it means. The rising cost of homes means the homes cost more. Things that cost more are less affordable. So more expensive homes are less affordable. Then you look at wages vs cost of living.
Cost of living = How much does it cost to live, how affordable is it to live in a given area. Cost of living changes based on the area. Guess what determines if that cost of living is affordable, what is the biggest factor? Homes. So you’re saying cost of living can be really high, but the major factor that decides if you can afford that cost of living can be cheap. Dude you have clearly never had to manage your own finances or move areas with different costs of living. It’s pathetic to see you flounder like this.
When you grow up you’ll learn what all these things mean.
But I’m glad third-grade logic “would’ve get you there”. Seems like your literacy is 3rd grade there bud.
So “BS lies” means what exactly in this context?
Lol it’s your hypothetical you made up. But according to you BS lies, which is not how it’s used. But I mean, you don’t really care do you?
Reality is your biggest opponent
I think you mean greatest ally there buddy? I love how you didn’t quote anything, almost like I never said that so you have nothing explicit to point to. This is your version of “backing up your claims” vague statements. Lol I might as well say something and link google as my “backup” because that seems to meet your standard.
Like I said, it’s great you learned something! Keep it up lil guy and you’ll get the point
Lol I love the ego. You act like cost of living, which is the measure of how affordable things are, has nothing to do with how affordable a house is, which is part of the cost of living. You need to look up a few terms and learn what your talking about before you puff your chest up anymore.
I’m still waiting for the showing btw
I’ve provided tons of proof backing up my claims. I can’t make you read or understand them, sorry.
I know, I know
Yes, because a smart person doesn’t play pigeon chess.
Saying something over and over doesn’t make it true.
Fact that it is true makes it true though.
Things that cost more are less affordable.
Ahahahahah dude. less affordable doesn’t mean unaffordable. Like, I literally wrote it there, “Things that cost more are less affordable.”, the clue was there right in front of you.
But according to you BS lies, which is not how it’s used.
I sent this sentence down at the lab for the boys to take a look at. I’m going to get back to you when I figure out what the hell this even means. Just to be clear, “BS” here means bullshit, right?
Lol I might as well say something and link google as my “backup”
Honestly, anything goes at this point. You’ve lowered the bar that much.
You act like cost of living, which is the measure of how affordable things are, has nothing to do with how affordable a house is, which is part of the cost of living.
Still missing the point. Still missing it. Still thinks cost of living is equal to house prices. Renters aren’t affected by cost of living in your reality it seems.
I’ve provided tons of proof backing up my claims
Sure kid, they must’ve gotten defederated out since I haven’t come across one.
Yes, because a smart person doesn’t play pigeon chess.
A smart person wouldn’t say the cost of living equals to house prices yet here we are.
Honestly I’m a bit scared to fuck you any more since it might be classified under pedophilia.
You’re right. Something is right or it’s not. And again, you saying it over and over doesn’t make it true. You gotta use this thing call proof. The thing you keep saying you’ve showed without ever showing. The thing you could just show me and destroy my stance. The thing you don’t have so will never show.
Ahahahahah dude. less affordable doesn’t mean unaffordable. Like, I literally wrote it there, “Things that cost more are less affordable.”, the clue was there right in front of you.
It’s so sad, honestly, to see you say something like this. So confident to the point of arrogance while being so ignorant. If something is less affordable, that is how it becomes unaffordable. It’s affordable, becomes less so, and is now no longer affordable, that’s how inflation works bud.
I sent this sentence down at the lab for the boys to take a look at. I’m going to get back to you when I figure out what the hell this even means. Just to be clear, “BS” here means bullshit, right?
Yep, and you and your buddies can work on it. 3rd grade reading level and all, I’ll give you all the time you need.
Honestly, anything goes at this point. You’ve lowered the bar that much.
Lol, yes. Me calling out the absurdity of your “proof” is me lowering the bar. Please, you have no proof and we both know it, you’re just puffing your chest at this point.
Still missing the point. Still missing it. Still thinks cost of living is equal to house prices. Renters aren’t affected by cost of living in your reality it seems.
Jesus, we started this off by talking about homes and not renting, that was the context. I never said cost of living equals housing cost. I never said they were the same, if I did quote me, show me exactly where I said that. Because I didn’t and this is the only weak stance you have, even though I’ve explained it 10 times, you just can’t seem to grasp it. Housing cost, the cost to be in a home, regardless of what it is, is the biggest contributor to cost of living. Not the only one, but the largest one in nearly all cases. I’ve said this multiple times, maybe this time it’ll stick.
Sure kid, they must’ve gotten defederated out since I haven’t come across one.
Yah, selective reading will do that. I’ll say this, I’ve provided much more proof than you have lol. What have you sent, a listing for a foreclosed online only sale house as an example of affordable housing lol. If anything the only proof you’ve shown helps my stance not yours. So thanks for that.
A smart person wouldn’t say the cost of living equals to house prices yet here we are.
Well looking through our chat history you’ve said that a bunch and I haven’t said it once. So I gotta agree with you on that one. Hell even in a world where I did say it, I’ve explained probably 6 times now how it’s not the same, it’s just the largest part. So even in your delusional world where I said that, I’ve explained in detail how I view it. So even in that world you’re hanging on to one thing I said and ignoring all the explanation I’ve laid out in front of you. Because you know you’re wrong lol, but your ego just won’t let you move on.
A smart person would look at their comments in this thread, see that an overwhelming number of people disagree with you, and maybe have a little self reflection. Maybe just entertain the possibility that you might be wrong. But you’re not a smart person are you? You’re just a person with more ego than sense that can’t accept being wrong.
Honestly I’m a bit scared to fuck you any more since it might be classified under pedophilia.
Is this really the best you got? A weak stretch of a pedo joke. Come on man, do better.
Yep. And like I said, like reality has shown, and as the undeniable sources I’ve got have pointed out, I am right.
If something is less affordable, that is how it becomes unaffordable.
Not quite. Less affordable = less affordable, unaffordable = unaffordable. I understand these are extremely complex issues for you to handle but seriously, try.
Yep, and you and your buddies can work on it.
Still haven’t figured out what it meant. 3rd grade writing is honestly a tad bit too generous.
Jesus, we started this off by talking about homes and not renting, that was the context.
Uhh, we can’t redefine words by context. Use the word like it’s meant.
I’ve provided much more proof than you have lol.
You can keep lying to me but not yourself. We both have read the thread.
Well looking through our chat history you’ve said that a bunch and I haven’t said it once.
I literally linked it to you the other reply. Not surprising at all that you don’t read my replies, otherwise you would have apologized already.
overwhelming number of people disagree with you
Downvotes just mean people don’t want to face reality. Plenty of folk I talked to in this thread later turned out to agree with me.
Yep. And like I said, like reality has shown, and as the undeniable sources I’ve got have pointed out, I am right.
Lol I very much believe you think you’re right. Ego does that. But you’ve not shown any of these sources, or any proof. So I think ego is all you got.
Not quite. Less affordable = less affordable, unaffordable = unaffordable. I understand these are extremely complex issues for you to handle but seriously, try.
Can’t tell if you’re being over pedantic or trolling. Something that is unaffordable is less affordable than something that is. If something costs $10 and that is affordable, and then it becomes $20, which is less affordable, I may no longer be able to afford it, making it unfordable for me. Less affordable impacts everyone as prices change, something being unaffordable has to look at the context of the person. Less affordable = big picture, unaffordable = individual. Clearly you’ve never had to put together a budget in your life lol.
Still haven’t figured out what it meant. 3rd grade writing is honestly a tad bit too generous.
And yet you still can’t seem to grasp a, what, lower than 3rd grade writing level. Quite the self burn there lol.
Uhh, we can’t redefine words by context. Use the word like it’s meant.
Words have different meanings in different context you absolute idiot lol. Cost of living means something different to a person living at home than it does a home owner. You can barely keep up when we’re talking about houses now you want to expand that to all expenses associated with cost of living? Oh boy.
You can keep lying to me but not yourself. We both have read the thread.
Yes we have. But you’ve demonstrated already that you have selective reading. You’ve had to have me repeat things you’ve missed. It seems you conveniently don’t notice anything that challenges your ego.
I literally linked it to you the other reply. Not surprising at all that you don’t read my replies, otherwise you would have apologized already.
Ah yes, the link to the comment where I didn’t say that. See this is a perfect example. You could quote what I said and shut me up, but you didn’t. Because you know you’re wrong. And it’s easier to keep pumping up your ego. You even ask for an apology, because in your mind you could never be wrong, every interaction you have is you trying to prove you’re right to everyone while waiting for an apology. Oblivious to the real world around you.
Downvotes just mean people don’t want to face reality. Plenty of folk I talked to in this thread later turned out to agree with me.
“Plenty.” Lol, gotta pump up that ego. And people disagreeing with you have no valid point, they just don’t want to face reality. Jesus dude you are a legit narcist. No way everyone else could be right and you’re wrong, it’s everyone else who’s wrong. The whole world is wrong except you and some sycophants. God that’s pathetic.
People hate to be told they have responsibility.
Not really, people don’t mean being responsible. What they don’t like is someone who doesn’t live in their country, understand their housing laws or market, didn’t even know what a credit score is, and makes up some lie about owning a home trying to tell them they can afford a home when they very clearly cannot.
Listen bud. You clearly think you’re right about everything. I’ve linked sources showing you your wrong, spelling it out, quoting the source where it says your wrong. I’ve tried hypotheticals that you’ve just ignore, I’ve tried pointed questions you’ve ignored. You obviously have a world view where you’re right and everyone else is just wrong. I’m sure you like to think you’re very smart, even though it’s clear you very much are not. Not even close honestly, maybe average if I’m being kind. So now that I’ve realized you haven’t brought up a single talking point for a few responses now, just avoiding your responsibility (guess you were projecting when you said people hate being responsible) of answer questions, a key part of a debate. Coupled with the fact you can’t show one shred, one tiny bit of evidence, then this is pointless. No one is going to read down this far in the comment chain and you’re not interested in having a debate, you just want more ego fuel. This is a waste of time. I hope all this was just trolling because the alternative is honestly depressing.
Enjoy responding, I know your ego won’t let you leave without getting the last word. I won’t read it of course, and I’m sure you’ll have more insults to say about that, but honestly insults only have an impact if you respect the person their coming from. And I would respect a stranger more than I do you.
Have a good life man, and honestly, on a human level, try to have some self reflection, you can learn a lot about yourself and how people view you. Jesus, just looking at your recent comment history, it’s so full of hate, attacks, and “I’m better than you” vibes. Is that really how you want to live your life?
Can’t tell if you’re being over pedantic or trolling.
Realistic of the things we’re discussing here. Someone has to be.
And yet you still can’t seem to grasp a, what, lower than 3rd grade writing level.
Yeah I’m really not used to material like that, you’ll have to step it up
Words have different meanings in different context you absolute idiot lol
And we already have our context. Don’t go changing it by yourself young lad
You’ve had to have me repeat things you’ve missed.
You have repeated things that I have time and time again shot down. Not my fault you are unable to know the difference between less- and unaffordable lmao
Ah yes, the link to the comment where I didn’t say that.
You were supposed to click it and read it. Also, like, you’ve been on the defense on it for like 2 weeks now, I mean high time for you to start backing off, but again, I’d like to have an apology from you for being such a dum-dum.
“Plenty.” Lol, gotta pump up that ego.
I mean again, if reality reflects my ego, is it really ego?
What they don’t like is someone who doesn’t live in their country, understand their housing laws or market, didn’t even know what a credit score is, and makes up some lie about owning a home trying to tell them they can afford a home when they very clearly cannot.
Kid I’ve already went through these with you like 10 times. I understand it better than you do, and probably ever will since you are unable to educate yourself.
it’s so full of hate, attacks, and “I’m better than you” vibes.
You just said you don’t know the US housing market
In this comment you state you’ve read my every comment, yet I missed this one, care to point it out for me? Throughout the convo I was looking for dope houses on the market, many of which were totally in the range of around 150k. That one guy bought a big lot for less than 50k.
Anyway you sent like 100 comments over the night, mostly with points I’ve already addressed so I’m not gonna reply to most of them. I am perplexed about the perceived hostility towards me, surely your landlord is happy knowing full well their walking-talking rainy day fund is out there defending them and making sure the situation never changes. Buying into this doomer-propaganda is exactly what lets your Lord to live a happy and fulfilling life. Make no attempt to change it.
But in all seriousness, I know how nice it is to crawl into misery and feel defensive when someone tries to nudge you out. I’ve never felt THAT defensive but despair is very addictive. I’m just saying that if there are things to do to improve you life and reach your goals, you are probably better off doing them rather than sperging out on randoms online.
You’re being a cheerleader at the edge of rapids butthurt because your chant of “be aggressive” isn’t actually helping the drowning people feel better.
This reference flew right over me mate. Also, I never intended anyone to “feel” better, but to do better. A concerning amount of pro-landlord hysteria out here to be quenched, how people perceive it is really not my prerogative.
Being “I’d much rather pay my dear Lord more money in exchange for doing literally nothing to improve my situation” is exactly what the Lord you love so much wants you to do.
Why you seem to be mad at me who’s at least trying to help you out, instead of the leech that sucks the money out of you is something only pro-landlords will understand apparently.
Even though admittedly the credit rating system sounds ass, I really can’t fathom anyone who’s down for saving just a bit not getting a loan for, say this 22k 1301sqft house in bumfuck ohio. Like if you can’t then you are the outlier.
You absolute bell end. Read what people are saying. No one wants to pay a land lord, everyone wants to own a house. They literally can’t. All your “try hard” chanting doesn’t make it any not possible.
You’re not trying to help out anyone. You’re the guy telling the person who’s depressed due to chemical imbalance to “just try being happy” then you get confused when they tell you it doesn’t work like that and insist it does.
You’re the guy telling the person who’s depressed due to chemical imbalance to “just try being happy”
Next time I want to say something, I should just ask what visions you’ve been having lmao. Like literally your every comment is about a comment you think I made, yet I never made one. Actually delusional
I can see how someone who lacks reading comprehension and basic understanding of the topic they’re speaking on may think other people are delusional. You’re in a world you don’t understand and lack the comprehension to grasp it, I get that, so I’ll help you by spoon-feeding it.
You said:
Why you seem to be mad at me who’s at least trying to help you out, instead of the leech that sucks the money out of you is something only pro-landlords will understand apparently.
Are you trying to help people out? Really? Kinda like you telling a depressed person to “just be happy” would be helping out? What help do you think you’re providing actually? Telling people that owning a house is better because you’re not throwing away rent money? Everyone knows that it’s not a choice they want to make, it’s simply the only option they have.
Kinda like you telling a depressed person to “just be happy” would be helping out?
I still don’t know where you got this one from mate.
Telling people that owning a house is better because you’re not throwing away rent money?
Yep
Everyone knows that it’s not a choice they want to make, it’s simply the only option they have.
Sure, the defenses seen here in this thread truly reflect upon that lack of options. I’m sure no one will forcefully drag you out of your comfort zone, as that might actually improve your life. And that’s scary. But earlier you said you were 16yo, so I’ll give you a few years to grow up and perhaps something I’ve said stuck in your mind and helps you to become a better person, instead of this excuse blabbering coward.
I still don’t know where you got this one from mate.
It’s because it requires critical thinking. I need to spoon-feed harder. Ok. People can’t control chemical imbalances in their brains, and that’s what drives depression. People can’t control their socio-economic situation when they are trapped in the cycle of poverty.
Telling someone to “just be happy” when it’s not that easy is just like telling someone to “buy not rent” when again, it’s not that easy.
Yep
Well, I’m glad we figured out why you think you’re being helpful. News flash bud, it’s not helpful. It’s about as helpful as telling someone to be rich because life will be better with more money.
Sure, the defenses seen here in this thread truly reflect upon that lack of options. I’m sure no one will forcefully drag you out of your comfort zone, as that might actually improve your life. And that’s scary. But earlier you said you were 16yo, so I’ll give you a few years to grow up and perhaps something I’ve said stuck in your mind and helps you to become a better person, instead of this excuse blabbering coward.
Aaaaand there it is. Spoken like a person who has never had to struggle. People live in towns where they have no money, no jobs available, and have crippling debt. Some have disabilities that limit their options. Some are single parents with just enough hours in the day to keep their heads above water. They struggle and fight to survive every week. It’s not that they don’t want to be uncomfortable, every day is uncomfortable, if you had ever actually struggled in life you would know this. But not every person in a hard situation can simply work hard and get out of it, that’s an extremely naive worldview.
Also I never said I was 16 yo and I said I own a house. So not only do you lack critical thinking, knowledge of the topic you’re speaking on, and reading comprehension, but you’re also delusional lol. Look at my comment history. Please link the comment where I said I was 16. But I loved to have that insight on how you would talk down to a younger person, really shows your character. For context, I’m in my mid 30s, and actually spent my younger years in the USMC. Oh and like I said I own a house, and make good money, but I grew up dirt poor. Like hunt for food not for sport kinda poor. A struggle you clearly have never faced.
Telling someone to “just be happy” when it’s not that easy is just like telling someone to “buy not rent” when again, it’s not that easy.
For the latter, it is tho. And since all but a few of yall commenters have been so defensive, it just sort of enforces the idea that you guys HATE being reminded you are living your lives and are in control of it. It’s easier to shitpost on lemmy tho I agree.
News flash bud, it’s not helpful.
If it wasn’t my original comment would’ve been buried without much notice. At least now you’re aware that crying in your bed isn’t a viable option for success.
Also I never said I was 16 yo
Actually you did. I’ll provide the proof after you point out where I said I knew nothing of US housing markets. After that we’ll talk about your earlier comment on the holocaust, that was just sick man.
See, I can be as intelligent as you are :)
Spoken like a person who has never had to struggle.
Getting banned from roblox isn’t a struggle kid. I’ve had my worse moments, but I’m in control and I made it better. It’s literally that easy.
But shitposting is lemmy is way the fuck easier so keep at it. Do NOT make your Lords life any harder, they deserve their holiday at the Bahamas.
Just proved my point lol. But yes, everyone disagreeing with you doesn’t mean you’re wrong, it just means everyone else is. There’s no way you might be wrong, no way. I mean you admitted to not understanding multiple aspects of the US housing market, but no way people who live and buy houses in the US could know more than you, a non-US resident. Lol the ego just blows me away.
A person in a small town, with a disability, crippling medical debt, and only 1 or 2 options for a minimum wage job, who has no car. How does that person just work hard and fix it. They have no car, they have special needs that keep them in crushing debt, they have no borrowing power, and they have no money to move to a place with better job opportunities. What does that person do huh? If it really is just that easy, help me figure out how to help that person.
If it wasn’t my original comment would’ve been buried without much notice. At least now you’re aware that crying in your bed isn’t a viable option for success.
People are roasting you lol, that’s why it’s not buried. You’re a joke and people are clowning you but you’re too narcissistic to even realize it lol.
Actually you did. I’ll provide the proof after you point out where I said I knew nothing of US housing markets.
Lol I explained it in another comment you responded to. But yah, I’m sure you’ll provide proof, I’ll hold my breath there bud. Anyone can look at my comment history and see I didn’t say that, I don’t need you to prove anything.
After that we’ll talk about your earlier comment on the holocaust, that was just sick man.
Ok, now I’m legit worried you missed your meds or something.
See, I can be as intelligent as you are :)
Oh buddy, it’s great to have dreams.
Getting banned from roblox isn’t a struggle kid. I’ve had my worse moments, but I’m in control and I made it better. It’s literally that easy.
Your right it isn’t. And I’m sure your struggle of having to buy an economy car was rough. And having to go get your food instead of having it delivered, I mean how did you survive that?
You sound exactly like the boomer in this comic! You took control and worked that drive thru job all summer to make your life better why can’t everyone else? I mean it’s not like the income and cost of living gap is growing at a rapid rate.
But shitposting is lemmy is way the fuck easier so keep at it. Do NOT make your Lords life any harder, they deserve their holiday at the Bahamas.
With how much you keep saying you love landlords and defending them I’m starting to think you are one. It would make a lot of sense actually.
Never said I read every comment you made, I said “reading all these comments” which is very diffent.
I didn’t send 100, it was like 3. Yes you addressed them, just extremely poorly, so I called them out again.
I’m not defending any landlord, I’m just calling out your naive and uninformed statements. You even admit to ignorance on topics you’re speaking to. I own a house guy, I don’t know what angle you’re trying to play lol.
I’m not in any sense of despair, like I said I own a house I love. You’re problem is you assume, just like you assumed I have a land lord and don’t own a house. You assume people have just given up, you can’t even fathom the concept that it is unattainable. You have this boomer mindset of “if you work hard enough anything and everything is possible” which ignore reality and the very real obstacles it has.
Keep dodging? There’s nothing to dodge lol. You misrepresented the statement and I corrected you. I get you may not like being wrong, but it doesn’t make you less wrong lol.
Making up claims? Like you saying I made 100 comments when anyone can look and see that’s factually wrong? Or do you mean more vaguely making up stuff, like how you admit you don’t know how credit scores work but think people should be able to buy houses, which rely on credit scores, a thing you don’t understand?
I hate landlords, nice assumptions and reach though, but super transparent. 2/10
A source for what? That I own a house? Sure, I’ll show you proof, right after you show me proof that you own this magical house that was super cheap and easy to get.
The problem is that you’re being extremely naive and ignorant of the rapidly worsening material conditions the majority of people in the west are experiencing. Your suggestion that “there must be something you can do to improve things, why are you whining?” comes across as tone deaf and dismissive.
People are struggling to keep their bills paid, and most are doing everything they possibly can to try and improve their situation, yet are still failing to keep their heads above water. It’s like someone is screaming “Help!! Help!! I’m drowning!!” and you’re screaming back “I’m swimming just fine, isn’t there something you can do to stay afloat? Why are you panicking?”
“there must be something you can do to improve things, why are you whining?”
If the “why are you whining” part is how it came across that’s on me. I meant it more like, “there are always possibilities to improve upon your situation and that is always a better option than falling into hopeless despair which merely keeps you misery”. And no I don’t mean just get a fifth job lmaoo, but literally anything that’s reasonable and realistic.
Nipping off anything off your budget so you can get 20 bucks saved a month is a better option than giving up on the dream of owning a house.
Unionizing for a better pay to get 20 bucks saved a month is perhaps a bit more provocative option but an extremely healthy one at that.
You get the jist. Like I said to the other fella in this comment tree, I’ve been reading into credit rating system during this convo and yeah I start to understand where the high emotions come from.
That $20 a month you’re saving up dries up really quick when you get sick or hurt and have medical bills that can lead to debt. Most people in America can barley survive month to month, there is no saving. Not to mention saving $20 a month would take you 500 years to afford a cheap 120k house. You sound like someone who has never faced actual financial hardship beyond “I should eat out a little less”.
Lowest prices I’ve seen for houses in Finland sits at about €200k.
Please look more before spreading misinformation.
Who knows, all I know is your math doesn’t add up.
For sure, since I literally said that by saving 20 bucks a month for a year anyone can buy a house lmao. I wonder what giving up on your dreams have ever done for you? I know exactly what it’s done for your landlord though
After less than a minute of search found this for less than 7k. Fully renovated, walking distance from the town center. Saving up money at 20€/mo for just 3 years gets you 10% deposit for this one.
And as a plus, if you translate that page you’ll notice how it’s being marketed towards investors. Fuck them.
I’ll help you move after you’ve “verified” whatever that means.
I rescind my earlier statement. You aren’t lying, but you’re missing a key point of reference.
This is no where near the average plot size in the United States. Average plot size in California, for example, is 8,327 square feet. Priced the same way, at €315 per square meter(alongside translating from square feet to square meters, 773) , you end up with a whopping €244,197.xx.
I’m sure there are lower price points, but you should see what I’m saying. Not to mention, it isn’t nearly as easy as you say to just “move to Finland”. It’s not like I speak Finnish, and who’s to say how I’d make my money?
I mean, shit, in a few months here in California I could buy a house in Finland. It would not be anywhere close to the house I’m currently paying mortgage on, not in size or value, but I’d absolutely be able to swing €6.5k.
All in all, I get what you’re saying. The reasons above are why you’re getting such vitriolic responses. I’m sorry for being a part of them.
This is no where near the average plot size in the United States.
I wasn’t aware this was a goalpost, I thought we were just looking at houses to live in and there definitely are houses below the claimed 200k which is quite an outrageous figure.
I’m sure there are lower price points, but you should see what I’m saying.
Well yes and no. I’m not fighting the statistical fact that the prices of houses have increased dramatically, and that it has affected mostly young people. I’m just saying that with a few concessions its is perfectly viable to find a home. Not perhaps as lavish as your parents had during their time, but still. I’ve linked a couple cheap shits in this thread from around the US that I just quickly found by googling “real estate + first state to come to mind”.
as you say to just “move to Finland”.
That was an attempt at humor, I wasn’t expecting you to move here. Tho you totally could as long as your profession isn’t strictly customer service. Afaik most IT-offices run on english anyway.
I’m sorry for being a part of them.
No worries mate it’s all good! Hope all the best for you!
Idk if that’s a passive or active you, but anyway that level of effect sounds quite large, maybe folk should find ways to make their credit rating better.
But I restate I have no clues as to the inner workings of this “credit rate” and if it’s indeed impossible or otherwise unrealistic to effect, I’m willing to grab an implied L on that one.
You positively affect your credit rating over long periods of time by taking out loans and paying them back. If no one will loan you anything, you can’t affect your score. If you can’t pay the loans back, it damages your score.
if you never take loans or use credit cards, your score won’t be very good. you have to prove that you can take on debt and repay it, not just that you can be responsible with your money (by, for example, never taking debt).
Yuh we need you to take these small credit loans constantly, to build your way up to bigger loans. Having to take small loans all the time is actually a sign of a healthy financial situation lmaoo
I mean if I’d have to choose between giving money to someone who’s never before had to take a loan vs someone who lives from credit to credit, I’d choose the first guy any day.
i mean, yeah. i agree. but those are rules of the game for plebs in the US. (i’m sure things are different for the super-rich.) you wanna rent an apartment or buy a new car? you have to show good credit or have someone with good credit co-sign any agreement/loan. you might do it on your own if you can show enough income (for rent) or can purchase a car outright (pay the total amount).
you can do these things with bad credit, but you will pay a higher interest rate or settle for something sketchy.
i can’t speak to house-buying (looooool, add me to the list of americans in this thread who will never own a house), but i’m pretty sure it’s the same.
That’s just kind of nonsensical, isn’t it better for someone to not have needed a loan before? To me that seems like the more mature creditor compared to someone who’s pulling credit constantly, regardless how well they pay it back.
That indeed does seem to suck, apologies for having to deal with a system as shit as that sounds.
this is what i thought and did not use credit cards for years. i was only able to buy a car with a co-signer. since then, i pay for everything with credit and pay it off all the time to build a credit history. i will need another car at some point.
It just seems silly to “force” people to use credit just for that. Out here credit cards are only used for international payments, if even that. I mean I don’t have a credit card and probably never will.
You have to take loans and make financially risky maneuvers to prove you can pay back the bank (which incidentally is covered by FDIC, unlike the average person).
The credit score system is the yoke upon which the millennial/zennial generation has been shackled while Gen X and Boomers ride the wagon of home ownership and comfortable living due to not having to deal with that bullshit in the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s.
I was born in 1971. I can’t speak for all of Gen X, but my experience growing up in the 80s is that I was presented with “everything’s fine, you just need to get a job and it’ll all work out.” So that’s what I did, and got nowhere fast. Married too early to the wrong person because pooling our resources seemed to be the only way out, then still struggled to get anywhere. Everything pointed to “I guess we’re just not trying hard enough.” Follow this with depression, divorce, working multiple jobs at a time to keep a roof over my head…
I think plenty of Gen X were just on the the earlier edge of the wave that became what it is today.
How much did you save in that year and what are your monthly costs?
I plugged my numbers into a mortgage calculator while back and I’d have to save like 20% of the total cost to get the monthly payments low enough. I have an okay salary and I’m still not making enough to do that in a year.
I can’t remember the exact figure, it was around 10k I had saved up, so roughly a third of what I had made that year. This was during covids lockdown phase, so I didn’t really have anything to spend my money on other than a savings account. My monthly loan payment is between 700-800€, I was smart enough to get a fixed interest rate which was ridiculous at the time but a literal moneyprinter now.
You might be interested to know that in the European country where I live this is completely impossible. No bank here will give a loan to a single person with that income and only 10k euro saved.
You didn’t mate, it’s all good, and I don’t consider myself successful for saving money for a year. It appears to have been on a bit of an easy-mode.
Feel like emotions are high here, and I’ve been looking into this credit rating system during this convo and I kinda start to understand the emotions coming off.
Yes, but I missed your point unfortunately. Price of houses soared during Covid, I thought it was common knowledge. If anything I bought it at the wrong time.
I know this may be difficult for you to understand, but a whole lot of people lost their jobs during Covid, and had even less to spend. That is why it was relatively easy for those with money to buy housing.
Saving isn’t an option when your entire wage is spent before you make it, just to exist. Or when you aren’t allowed to work because of external circumstances.
Not calling you a liar, but my parents’ house is half that size, pretty far from the nearest small city, also in the Midwest, and is worth almost 600k.
Also, just saying people can just move if they want to own a home is pretty stupid.
The small city I work for in Texas has a median home price of nearly $3,000,000. The cheapest home currently available in the city is 1.8 million.
The median income doesn’t support those numbers. How does that work? Those same houses were 1/5 the price 10 years ago, and 1/3td the price in early 2021.
Areas with historically cheap housing are seeing house prices double annually, but wages aren’t keeping up because people who already opened a house 3-4 years ago still have a cheap house with 2-3% interest.
A 400ft 1br studio apartment in the town I work costs $2,300/month. That would have gotten you a hell of a house 5 years ago.
A 400ft 1br studio apartment in the town I work costs $2,300/month.
That’s insane. Not even 20 years ago, you could throw a stone and find an apartment for like $500-$800 in that general part of the country (TX/OK). Not a slum or a hovel, and not in the sticks. Just a normal apartment.
My monthly mortgage payments have been flat for 15 years now. I pay less than 1/4 per month that someone buying my house today would.
Even though we make 2X what we did back when we purchased the first house (graduate degrees), we would still struggle to make the payments on our current place if I had to pay the market price today.
A couple years back during covid, in Finland. House prices here have been creeping up as well but not as aggressively as where you have lived. I doubt that’s the case in all of the US, there must be places with more modest prices. I “downgraded” to a smaller city when I went from renter to owner, couldn’t have bought a home to my liking in Helsinki due to the prices.
So when you said it’s possible to buy a house in your 20s you meant in Finland. Then you make a wild assumption about the US to try to justify what you said? Wut? Dude you are misrepresenting the situation left and right.
To change the subject completely. I hope my country embraces the work from home option. Especially the public sector should experiment with this form of hiring. People living in all parts of our country is a political goal.
I don’t know why southern or “cheaper” states haven’t embraced legislation guaranteeing a right to work from home when available. It seems like it would only be a boon to low-COL states to have a larger number of well-paying professionals in the state.
Sure, just move to a place whose best restaurant is McDonalds, the available job market is K-Mart or construction, internet is satellite at best, and 4/5ths of the people think the gays are coming to steal their guns.
I get what you mean, but cutting the hyperbolics out, it doesn’t sound too bad. You can’t have it all and I had to make concessions about a thing or two.
As an amusing sidenote, the second worst thing about the town I moved to was the lack of mickey Ds. I have to resort to the Finnish off-brand trash version instead.
This dude and the people upvoting him are braindead, just stop, they are never going to get that things are different in other parts of the world, obviously everyone just needs to move to Finland to solve all issues.
That’s not hyperbole, that’s people’s reality. You are just so privileged and out of touch that it seems crazy to you. You have to make concessions about a thing or two? Well in the US those concession are not going to the doctor so you can afford rent. It’s not like people are just blowing money on BS.
Sure there are places houses aren’t insanely expensive, but they are generally many hundreds of miles away from where there are jobs available that may pay enough to purchase said house.
Having lived in Europe it amazes me how many Europeans believe that because it’s still in the country, it’s not all that far. But if you compare directly a few hundred miles is usually in another country in Europe, where in the USA it’s more often still in the same state.
“Social services” can hold a wide range of stuff and arguably every country does have social services, but yeah it’s one of the nordic social democracies with an extensive social safety net in place. I’m extremely grateful for it, even though I personally don’t use those services (apart from you know, like roads and shit) and they get funded through my income.
Back when people would happily buy a house in Cleveland, Ohio or Milwaukee, Wisconsin or Buffalo, NY. Coincidentally those places still have much affordable housing.
People want the things you mentioned AND they want it in NYC, LA, San Francisco, etc. The entitlement is the issue.
Because there aren’t good jobs in those places anymore. So entitled wanting access to jobs…
And acting like NY, SF etc are the only places with a housing crisis. And the only places people want to live. It’s pretty much a housing crisis in any town with jobs.
I grew up in a bad neighborhood. My parents house cost them 20k in 1980.
It sold for 450k in 2001. The original house is still there, a postwar concrete prefab with zero wall insulation capacity that freezes and weeps in winter and broils in summer, but the yard is looong gone with a subdivision.
The RENT on that fucking house is now more per year than my parents paid to own it. Without the yard.
In this instance i kinda agree, but there’s a line that gets crossed where that doesn’t apply, so perhaps sturdier logic is needed.
EDIT: For instance, if this Ricky Gervais meme were posted to justify a joke making light of police brutality against black people, that’s clearly far over the line. This joke isn’t even close to the line IMO. But where is the line? And - genuinely, out of curiosity because dark humour is a deep love of mine - what is the correct line of reasoning? I really do think “just take a joke, it’s fun, have a laugh” like the meme implies is the correct stance in regards to things like this. But, since the logic doesn’t really hold up at the extreme, it to me implies the logic may be a little off.
That is a very privileged position to take. They aren’t separate issues at all; the fact of someone being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of it being damaging. And to consider it a choice is absurd even on the face of it. Being offended is an emotion. You can’t genuinely, fully control your emotions. You can control what you do about it, sure, but not always, and not completely.
And apart from that, even if we entertain the idea of it being a choice - who on Earth would choose to feel offended? It feels awful. And it never goes well. If you even have the guts to say something about it, you generally get mocked and laughed at. Who would choose to go through that?
While I understand your perspective, it’s worth noting that reactions to offenses, like many emotions, exist on a spectrum. Some individuals might experience deep hurt from a comment that others brush off with ease. While we can’t always control our immediate emotional responses, we can cultivate resilience and perspective over time. Claiming that no one would choose to be offended might oversimplify a complex web of human emotions and social dynamics. Some might lean into being offended as a defense mechanism or to further a personal or societal narrative. Emotions are complex, and so are the reasons behind them.
While I understand your perspective, it’s worth noting that reactions to offenses, like many emotions, exist on a spectrum. Some individuals might experience deep hurt from a comment that others brush off with ease.
I believe I addressed this. Of course that’s true. That’s why I said you can control your actions, “but not always, and not completely”.
While we can’t always control our immediate emotional responses, we can cultivate resilience and perspective over time.
We can, but certain things are bound to simply be offensive, no matter what. “Perspective” is a buzzword in this conversation. No amount of perspective will get me to react kindly to statements like “women belong in the kitchen”. The onus should not lie with the offended party to just not be offended, it should lie with people trying to not be offensive. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
Claiming that no one would choose to be offended might oversimplify a complex web of human emotions and social dynamics.
No, it really doesn’t. Saying people choose their emotions is the oversimplification. Would you “choose” to be angry, sad or scared? No. You can only choose your actions. I think you’re conflating emotions with actions.
Some might lean into being offended as a defense mechanism
Being offended doesn’t protect you whatsoever. Again, maybe you’re conflating actions with emotions. But what actions are you talking about here?
or to further a personal or societal narrative.
This just seems like a dogwhistle to me. What narrative is furthered by feeling something?
Emotions are complex, and so are the reasons behind them.
Yes, which is why we should put in more effort than just saying “they’re doing it on purpose”, and justifying that with a truism. “It’s complex” is easy to say. Digging into that complexity is harder, and maybe that’s why you’re not doing so.
The onus should not lie with the offended party to just not be offended, it should lie with people trying to not be offensive.
Jesus, I didn’t really want to respond to you in another thread but this line I had to say something. Anyone can be offended by anything, so you’re saying everyone should go out of their way to not offend anyone? Ok I’m offended by your user name, change it. I’m offended by the way you speak, the onus is on you to change it. I mean a society with that mindset wouldn’t function, anything I didn’t like I would just say it offends me and demand you change. We need to follow laws, that’s why we have them, and we should strive to be good people, but suggesting that a person should try to conform to every little offense anyone could have is unreasonable, that’s a VERY slippery slope.
No amount of perspective will get me to react kindly to statements like “women belong in the kitchen”.
Unless you live in a world where that is normal for decades on end and it becomes your normal. Nazis never saw themselves burning people in ovens, it’s not a switch that happens over night. What can become your normal is very scary.
What narrative is furthered by feeling something?
For example saying that you are offended by pride flags because you are homophobic. Maybe you “feel” (general “you”, not you specifically) that gay people touch kids, many homophobic people do “feel” that. Feeling that way and expressing your offense to pride flags in that way very much is pushing a homophobic narrative that can be damaging to the gay community.
Being offended doesn’t protect you whatsoever
That’s not what defense mechanisms are in psychology. They are subconscious responses, usually to avoid anxiety or facing any cognitive dissonance. If you point out that they hate gay people but are best friends with a gay guy, they may get offended as a way to avoid confronting that cognitive dissonance.
It’s not privileged at all lol, you’re just wrong.
Someone can put their elbows on the table while eating and offend someone. That person is hurting no one. The fact that it offends someone doesn’t make it damaging. Stop acting like being offended in and of itself means anything. Either that or explain to me the real harm of it. Or any other stupid little thing that can offend someone, like taking the lords name in vain or wearing white after labor day to a party. These are BS nonsensical things that people get offended by and you’re trying to act like they cause real harm. Get out of here with that pure nonsense.
Who chooses to feel offended? No one, but you chose your world view and that dictates if you will be offended.
Bottom line, you said “the fact of someone being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of it being damaging”. Explain to me how putting your elbows on the table while eating is damaging. Who is it harming?
It’s not harming anyone, and that person is just being an asshole. They are linked, yes, but not always directly correlated. Some people just be crazy.
This whole time I’ve been talking about bigotry, and I’ve been consistent on that. These little kooky “Don’t put your elbows on the table” level stuff in my own opinion is not a genuine form of offence, it’s an enforcement of conformity and tradition. “Offending” tradition is its own can of worms. If you ask me, before we consider if offending a tradition is something actually bigoted and offensive, we must first consider if that tradition might actually be batshit insane.
They’re inextricably linked but not correlated, that makes no sense.
You said being offended causes harm, I said it doesn’t, there were no classifiers. Someone being offended by something stupid doesn’t make them any less offended, they still are. I would argue a lot of people who are offended are because they see some form of tradition or cultural norm they value being upset. Whether that norm is them wanting to be racist or wanting you to eat a certain way.
My point is, people can get offended by literally anything, and I’d say 9/10 times it’s not damaging and they’re just being professional victims. Yes there are racists and horrible people, and the things they do are damaging. That’s why I care, because it’s damaging, not because it offends someone.
I don’t think you realise you’re agreeing with me, lol
Yes, harm and offence are linked, butthat doesn’t mean every offence was caused by harm. It just means every offence perceived some harm. But that harm may just be some kooky belief of theirs
I didn’t say offence causes harm. I said harm causes offence.
And “professional victim” tells me you’re just not taking this issue seriously.
They aren’t separate issues at all; the fact of someone being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of it being damaging.
Saying being offended and being damaging are inextricably linked means they are, well inextricably linked. Meaning it is impossible to seperate the two. Meaning one always comes with the other, always. This means, by your very own logic, that every instance of being offended is linked to harm and every instance of harm is linked to being offended. That is your logic, using your argument.
I’m not taking it seriously? You said being offended and damage are inextricably linked, but don’t always correlate, and doesn’t mean one always implies the other. You’re either back peddling hard or you didn’t know what the term “inextricably linked” meant when you said it.
Also if you think the concept of a professional victim is outlandish or some such you need to watch more Karen videos online, those people %100 exist. And me acknowledging that doesn’t make me any less serious, if anything it makes me less naive.
Yes, the fact of them being linked means the offence is always to do with some perceived harm. But we must take it on a case by case basis, like I’ve said before, and determine whether harm has truly been done, or if they’re just nuts. Like the Karens you mentioned.
Wait so now we’re at “perceived harm”, you didn’t say that at all. You did linked to harm, full stop. Those are two very diffent things.
I originally said that being offended and harm are not connected, they are two separate things. You said I was privileged and wrong. Now you seem to slowly be back peddling to agree with me…
If I’d known you’d be this pedantic, I’d have said from the start, I just thought it goes without saying - all harm has to be perceived to be known at all, doesn’t it? And can our senses not deceive us, either simply through illusion or misperception, or more deeply through our intellectual biases?
It’s not pedantic lol. You said all offenses cause damage. You said they are inextricably linked. That’s not just a common term thrown out there in day to day convos, it has a clear and purposeful meaning. I said the two can exist seperately, you said they couldn’t, and now you’re saying they can. You’ve contradicted yourself.
Harm is measurable, you said being offended means its damaging. Those are your words yet you’ve still not told me how eating with your elbows on the table causes damage to anyone. It can offend, so where is the damage?
I’m lying? I think you just don’t like being held accountable for the things you say because it makes it harder for you to back-peddle.
You said:
They aren’t separate issues at all; the fact of someone being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of it being damaging.
So I guess I need to break it down and explain what you said back to you. Inextricably linked means they are impossible to separate, they are together forever and always. Now you said it is linked to “it being damaging.” You say in this very statement, very clearly, that all offenses are linked to being damaging. I’m not lying I’m just confronting you with what you said as you try to back-peddle and shift the narrative by introducing things like “perceived harm” instead of damaging like you originally said.
There you go. Proof i didn’t say being offended causes harm! Why on earth would i even have said that? Earlier you were claiming i said all offence was caused by harm, no idea why you switched them.
Also, what does damage do, my friend? When you are damaged, it harms you. And you can perceive harm anywhere if you’re warped enough.
Let me make this very simple. When you are offended, it is because some amount of harm has been done. That amount can be zero. In programming terms, the offence variable comes in a data container that also contains a damage variable. The damage variable does not have to be greater than zero.
There you go. Proof i didn’t say being offended causes harm!
Jesus dude, you are really trying to dance to the point of me needing to break it down, ok here we go.
They aren’t separate issues at all; the fact of someone being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of it being damaging.
So someone being offended is inextricably linked to something. Ok, that part I hope you get, I mean you wrote it. Now what is it linked to. It is linked to “the fact of it being damaging”. Now what is it? It is the offense. So restated the sentence would be: “the fact of someone being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of the offense being damaging”. Now if the offense is damaging it would cause harm, by your very own words: “When you are damaged, it harms you”. So lets put this all together. Someone being offended is linked to them being damaged by that offense, which means that would experience harm.
When you are offended, it is because some amount of harm has been done. That amount can be zero.
No and no. People can get offended by something that causes no harm to them. A person can get offended that I fly a certain teams sports flag, that causes zero harm. Also zero is the absence of anything, so it is not an amount.
In programming terms, the offence variable comes in a data container that also contains a damage variable. The damage variable does not have to be greater than zero.
Ok, now I love this. I’ve been in software engineering for over a decade so lets look at this. I would say if you have a container with 2 variables, then in this case one variable would be null, which is the absence of value, not 0 value like you stated. If a variable has null value it has no reference to the heap, meaning it is nothing. So in that situation, the “offense” container would have only 1 value, offense, alone and by itself without damage.
Are you done?
I mean, that’s up to you. I can keep explaining to you how you’re wrong in a buncha different ways if you like.
The float would be 0, dude. No need to change its type. Even in common language we do this. “How many mls left in the jug?” “Zero.”
I don’t get why you don’t get this. Yeah, being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of damage. But you can be mistaken about the damage! And thus are offended by zero damage.
The float? What a weird random data type to pull out of nowhere. Why not int, why not decimal, why not a double, why not a dozen other data types, how random. Someone just did their first hello world.
Also, a float can be null, it’s not changing it’s type, it’s saying that the variable of that data type has no reference in memory. And if it’s a loosely typed language that means there is no data type at that point, until it has a value. Jesus, you really do make it a habit to talk about things you have no idea about.
I don’t get why you don’t get this. Yeah, being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of damage. But you can be mistaken about the damage! And thus are offended by zero damage.
You seem to not understand what the concept of 0 is. Having 0 damage means there is no damage. Not that there is 0 damage, there is NO damage at all, it does not exist. You saying being offended is linked to something that may not exist makes no sense. You can not inextricably link one action to something that does not exist. There is nothing for it to be intertwined with.
Also inextricably linked means intertwined. Meaning it goes both ways. Meaning that all damage must have an offense and all offense must have damage. You can’t have damage if none exists, and you trying to act like “well there is damage but it’s 0” is the biggest cop-out ever. That’s like saying “I was going to give you money for it, just 0 money.” That means you weren’t giving any money, none exists that you are giving. I’m not trying to be mean, but I don’t think you understand the words you’re using.
Yes there are other variable types. Why exactly does it matter whether it’s a float or int or otherwise? We can say it’s a string if you want. What’s weird or random about using a float? I use floats all the time in the games i develop to keep track of values with minute variance. There’s really no reason i can see for you to object, since you didn’t provide one. Seems all you wanted to do was prove you know something.
Yes, you have changed it from a normal float to a null reference. There is no reason to do that. You just seem to want to avoid using the number zero.
Yeah, zero damage means no damage. Do you think you’re the first person to realise that?
Of course it doesn’t make sense to be offended by something that doesn’t exist. It’s irrational. And emotions are irrational. Like i said, you could be offended because you think harm is done, but no harm has actually been done. Offence doesn’t come out of nowhere, and even so called professional victims are still offended by something, whether that something actually caused harm or not. It is an action with a damage value of zero - no damage. Yet in their heads they see damage and react as if it were some higher value.
I’m getting tired of this. We’re going in circles. I don’t know why i have to explain the concept of someone just… being wrong about something being offensive.
Yes there are other variable types. Why exactly does it matter whether it’s a float or int or otherwise? We can say it’s a string if you want. What’s weird or random about using a float?
Well you said “0” harm so I assumed you were using a numeric data type, so String is out. Just felt odd to pick a random numeric data type instead of saying “the variable” is all. I would say that by you calling out “float” as a data type when it has no relevance on the topic sounds like you trying to prove you know something. Works both ways.
Yes, you have changed it from a normal float to a null reference. There is no reason to do that. You just seem to want to avoid using the number zero.
Wrong. If you are in a strongly typed language, which by you saying it’s games and using the term String I’m assuming it’s C# or Java, my guess would be C#, then it doesn’t change it. A variable declared as a float is still a float even if it is null. A float will null value is still a “normal float”, I don’t even know what an “abnormal float” would even be? A corrupt address? The data type doesn’t change. You can’t declare a float, set it to null and then use it like it has no data type, it is still of float data type. I dunno what you’re talking about man. You’re mixing the concepts of data types and value types. Having a float with a 0 value vs a float that is null are VERY VERY different. You thinking the only difference is me trying to avoid using 0 shows a gross misunderstanding of data architecture within software development.
Yeah, zero damage means no damage. Do you think you’re the first person to realise that?
No, but I don’t think you’ve realized it yet. You said there would be damage, but it would be 0. That means there is no damage. How is one thing linked to another thing that doesn’t exist? You’re now talking about perceived damages, not actual damages, which is very different. I classified my original statement as “damages” not “perceived damages” and you replied the exact same way. This concept of “there is 0 damage but someone may think there is”, is nothing but trying to change the narrative of what you said.
Listen I don’t want to have to keep explaining this, but you have muddied the waters constantly, shifting between “there being damage” and there only being “perceived” damage. Those are not the same thing, you said it is linked to damage. If it is linked to damage there must be damage that exists for it to link to. If there is no damage, then the offense is not linked to anything and my very original statement is right, they are separate.
Like i said, you could be offended because you think harm is done, but no harm has actually been done.
You keep contradicting yourself. If an offense is linked to harm, like you said, there has to be harm it is linked to. You are saying offense can exist without harm which was exactly what I said to start with and you called me wrong.
I’m getting tired of this. We’re going in circles. I don’t know why i have to explain the concept of someone just… being wrong about something being offensive.
And I don’t know why someone disagreed with me only to slowly back-peddle into agreeing with me. I originally said offense and damage are independent. You said they weren’t, now you’re saying they can be. That there can be offense without damage, without any damage, the damage that it is linked to. What you’re basically saying is like saying “To enter this building you must pay. You cannot enter without paying. But you can just pay $0 because you still paid, it’s just 0.” That’s not how logic works. You can’t pay someone $0, and you can’t experience harm/damage that doesn’t exist and you can’t tie offenses to harm/damage that doesn’t exist.
If you wanna play the “perceived harm” and “perceived offense” game. Sure anyone can perceive anything, but that was not what I said, and that was not how you responded when you called me wrong.
Offense and damage are not separate. People can just be wrong about how damaging something is. But they are still offended by something, because you can’t be offended by nothing. And harm cannot affect you, imagined or otherwise, if you have not perceived the harming action - as I have said before, all harm is perceived harm. And foe you to be offended, there must exist something for you to be offended by, whether or not you’re wrong about how much damage it has dealt.
Take the elbows example. Really, it has a damage of 0. But to someone who is a complete snob, they see it differently, with some other damage value. So they are offended not by something that doesn’t exist, but instead by their misperception of something that does exist.
That is it. There is no reason for us to continue. I am sick of this.
Yes they are, if there is no damage there is nothing for it to be tied to. How do you have damage tied to an offense when there is no damage. Again, you’re trying to pay someone $0, that is not a thing.
as I have said before, all harm is perceived harm
This is %100 wrong. Perceived harm is something like I thought you stole from me but you didn’t. Real harm is you stole money from someone and you now have that money. One is real harm that did actual damage, the other is a perception. They are very different, that’s why you can’t go to jail just because someone perceives you stole something.
And foe you to be offended, there must exist something for you to be offended by, whether or not you’re wrong about how much damage it has dealt.
If someone is offended by me flying a sports team flag they don’t like, there is no actual harm. No one is hurt, and there is no measurable damage. You can be upset without there being damage. There isn’t damage every time you get upset about something. If I left my phone in the other room and I have to go get it, is there damage? No. I could be slightly upset I forgot it, but I’m not damaged in any way.
Take the elbows example. Really, it has a damage of 0.
So, you agree with me. That’s the end of the debate. There was an offense with no damage. Case closed.
But to someone who is a complete snob, they see it differently, with some other damage value.
Damage is not a value like that though. You dot just experience 5 damage like a video game. Damage needs to be measurable. If I’m at home with my mom say, and she gets upset I put my elbows on the table, where is the damage. What harm was caused that there is actual, legit damage. Not someone might feel bad, what is the actual damage?
So they are offended not by something that doesn’t exist, but instead by their misperception of something that does exist.
Jesus you are bending over backwards to avoid admitting you were wrong. So you went from every offense causes damage to now the perception of an offense may lead to the perception of damage that doesn’t exist. Jesus dude, just say it doesn’t always cause damage, it’s a much easier way to say what you’re saying without dancing around admitting you’re wrong.
That is it. There is no reason for us to continue. I am sick of this.
As soon as you started changing the narrative and saying BS like “all harm is perceived harm” and “damage can be perceived damage that doesn’t exist”. You said offenses always cause damage because you can’t have cause and effect without the effect. They don’t. Full stop. I’ve explained in detail how you’re wrong and even entertained all your narrative shifts.
Perceived harm is something like I thought you stole from me but you didn’t. Real harm is you stole money from someone and you now have that money.
These are both perceived harm, because you saw (perceived) money missing. You were just wrong in the first instance. All harm that offends us has to first be perceived by us in order to offend us. And since our perceptions can deceive us, we can mistakenly think an action is harmful.
These are both perceived harm, because you saw (perceived) money missing.
No they are not lol. One actually happened and is real damage, the other is a misconception. One cased actual damage (lost money), the other case they did nothing wrong. You perceived the money was gone, then it actually was. That’s the actual damage. With that last part there is no damage for the offense to be linked to, you would be referencing something that doesn’t exist. You have trouble understanding that, which is the same reason you have a problem understand the difference between a value of 0 and null. One exists with no value the other doesn’t exist at all. I mean would you say I lost money because someone stole it, or would you say someone stole my money? You would say the latter because that’s the actual case, you perceived something and confirmed it was reality. A perception can’t take things from you, a person can. If your whole stance is every offense can cause a perceived harm that doesn’t even exist, well then like I said, there’s easier ways to say that. Such as, not every offense causes actual harm or damage. You called me out for trying to hard to not use 0 when I was talking about null, even though those things are extremely different. And yet here you are trying to act like all damage, perceived and actual, are all the same.
All harm that offends us has to first be perceived by us in order to offend us.
Jesus, yes, if you want to be so pedantic to the point of everything we ever experience is perceived. But there are things that cause actual damage and things that don’t. You thinking I stole money doesn’t mean there is any damage, me actually stealing money causes damage.
we can mistakenly think an action is harmful
Yes, so there might not be actual harm. So not every offense causes harm I don’t know how to explain it any simpler. You can be offended in a situation where there is no actual damage done. How hard is that to understand? And in that situation, there is no damage driven by the offense because there is no actual damage done. There is a cause with no effect. There is nothing for it to be inextricably linked to, there is nothing to link it to at all, it doesn’t exist. It’s not that it exists with a value of 0, it doesn’t exist at all. It is null, void, non-existent.
I’ve said this a million times.
And I’ve explained the flaws in it a million times.
Listen dude you said you were done, just be done with it and move on then. Don’t keep engaging with me and then bitching about engaging with me lol. You can keep saying the same thing and I’ll keep explaining why it’s not accurate. How many times you wanna go around that circle is up to you. You keep setting em up, I’ll keep knocking em down.
No they are not lol. One actually happened and is real damage, the other is a misconception.
That’s what i fucking said. Why did you cut off the part where I said that, and pretend I wasn’t aware of this?
you were just wrong in the first instance.
This is outright lying by omission. We agree on this fact, yet you’re pretending otherwise in order to troll me.
People feel emotions based on misperceptions all the time. Happy because we thought we heard our significant other’s car driving home, but it was someone else. Sad because we thought we heard them crying, but they were laughing.
That’s what i fucking said. Why did you cut off the part where I said that, and pretend I wasn’t aware of this?
Because you constantly contradict yourself. You do say “And since our perceptions can deceive us, we can mistakenly think an action is harmful.” So, there is no harm. So, an offense didn’t cause harm. So, you agree with me?
We agree on this fact, yet you’re pretending otherwise in order to troll me.
I’m not trolling I’m trying to keep up with your distinctions between real damage, perceived damage, no damage, and 0 damage. You seem to be creating new metrics and measurements constantly to fill gaps in your logic.
People feel emotions based on misperceptions all the time. Happy because we thought we heard our significant other’s car driving home, but it was someone else. Sad because we thought we heard them crying, but they were laughing.
Yes but FFS look at what you said. You said offense is inextricably tied to damage. Not perception of damage, not feelings, damage. Damage means there was actual damage done. You feeling like there was damage done doesn’t mean there was damage done. You feeling like I stole money doesn’t cause damage. So you being offended doesn’t mean there is damage at all, in any sense. Me and another adult can be alone in a room and they can get offended I say “fuck” in front of them, that causes no damage at all to anyone. There is no harm at all. It is a single word that has no impact or real meaning. They are not damaged or harmed by me saying a single word. By your logic they would be damaged in some way, what way would they be damaged in?
Edit: I’ma go ahead and enjoy the rest of my day since I just wrapped up work. If you wanna keep going back and forth feel free to have at me and I’ll respond tomorrow.
You have to perceive damage to be offended by it. And you can be mistaken in perceiving it. And that doesn’t actually deal damage. I’ve said this before. You keep arguing for no reason.
Perceiving means nothing, stop trying to change your stance lol. You said “They aren’t separate issues at all; the fact of someone being offended is inextricably linked to the fact of it being damaging.” The fact of it BEING damaging, not perceived as damaging. There can be no damage at all, meaning there was an offense with no damage.
And that doesn’t actually deal damage. I’ve said this before. You keep arguing for no reason.
Because you contradict yourself constantly because you’ve realized that what you said makes no sense so you’ve taken this new “perceived damage” angle in order to save face.
You said an offense is linked to the FACT OF IT BEING DAMAGING. The fact. Of it being damaging. If something is damaging it causes damage. That’s how that works. It something doesn’t cause damage it’s not damaging. So if an offense happens and it’s damaging, like you said, there would be damage. Full stop.
I think “the line” you’re talking about is all in the delivery of the joke. Poor delivery could make a relatively tame dark joke really bad, and great delivery could make a heinous joke the talk of the night.
I’ve always considered “I find that offensive” to mean “I think what you said means you’re a dickhead and I want you to know that”. That’s why I’m offended by people who say “Hitler did nothing wrong” un-ironically but not offended by people who say “Hitler did nothing wrong” as a joke.
“I find that offensive” seems to be a bit of a straw SJW. I’m sure some exist that make things all about themselves like that, but if someone said “black people are lazy criminal scum”, I don’t think the response would be “I find that offensive”. I think the response would be “that’s racist garbage, get out of here. Black people are just people”. Point being, the response to an offensive statement generally consists of an argument explaining why it is harmful or factually incorrect.
I mean the argument will always require context. You could stab Gervais in the leg and say “but I found it funny, I must be happier than you.”
There is a line and there isn’t. Some audiences are big, some a small, the same audience can like one thing and dislike another and there’s no way to tell, the exact same audience could like the opposite the next day.
In the end, we sometimes make work, and sometimes it’s good and sometimes, regardless of the quality, it is liked, and regardless of all, it is popular.
I had to make the choice to do that with a loved one that spent 11 days in a coma on life support but was declared brain dead. So I didn’t really find this funny when I finally got the joke. But I’m not offended or anything… It just reminded me of something painful.
It’s funny because the one character in the comic would better serve the world as a corpse
If you got the opportunity to literally remove the power cord plug for your loved one’s life support form the power outlet, I’d agree that something is a little messed up
Meanwhile, my wife has an AD and has repeatedly instructed me to shuffle that mortal coil on offa her, so this really isn’t super controversial
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