Or, you know, we could use robots to slowly transform our society into a robotic utopia, where people get universal basic income and can do what the fuck they want, because robots do most of the work to keep our lives running.
But yeah, currently they are only attractive because they save costs. And that is attractive because we live in a capitalistic, profit driven society and not one where the well being of everyone is prioritized. (Although they can also help out in areas where human workforce is not available anyway, e.g., elderly care in several countires. Then again there are insufficient financial incentives to work in that area.) That’s why it’s highly probable that they will – for a long time – continue to be tools which will ease lower level work, so that humans can focus on higher level tasks. However, this level of capability is increasing over time, requiring even higher qualified humans to do very high level tasks until even those are replaced by thinking machines.
We currently have a pyramid of work. Most jobs require low to mid level education or qualification. The higher the qualification level is, the less jobs are available (but usually very well paid though). What we are going to see is that robots wil replace one by one the lower level parts of this pyramid. And that’s bad, because unemployment rates will increase, because of that. A lot of people don’t want to or can’t improve on their education / qualification. And even if they would, I doubt that there will be a sufficient amount of jobs available. (That would be a good question for a research project though, since I don’t really know how many new jobs could be created by requiring less lower level work. I am just pessimistic right now.) ChatGPT caused a lot of concerns in text writing industries. Image generating AIs caused similar distress in the creative industry. Developments like this will continue at a high speed. At some point machines will be able to improve machines completely on themselves. Then we will have an explosion of machine intelligence.
Society is not prepared for this.
That’s why I am advocating that politics have to speed up creating laws and rule frameworks in which robots are allowed to be developed and operated and which also take care of those who are in danger of unemployment and financial starvation.
The thing is we already live in that world. Labour saving automation is all around us but we work as hard as ever. My generation witnessed the arrival of the two parent income, women entered the workplace in order to afford better housing and foreign holidays. The result? More expensive housing and latchkey kids.
That’s the worst part isn’t it. You see all these problems but I have no idea what to do about it. Even theoretical solutions don’t hold up, let alone practical limitations.
Real talk we’re probably all gonna get final-solution’d as soon as the rich perfect robotic automation and AI if we allow them to get that far. Because at that point we’re no longer useful to them and will be gotten rid of like an investment that’s no longer making profit.
AI and automation are not the enemy, they’re just tools. The rich are the enemy and are using those tools to oppress us.
Related “rich elite man” after replacing all of his human workers for robots
In all seriousness tho – robots require energy (and lots of it) in order to work efficiently. While “any ordinary human” has to pay for his own expenses. Which means, robots will be (best case scenario) a “gimmick” for a selected few and no way a popular thing, in a way that will make all humans irrelevant for ANY kind of job.
tl;dr: It’s okay, robots won’t take over the world.
Robots are already a veeeeeeery popular thing. Look at any car factory.
There won’t be much difference between those and general purpose AI robots, except that the general purpose ones will be WAY more capable and profitable.
Humans will always have jobs, but that doesn’t mean the trend of automation and advances replacing jobs won’t continue, and maybe accelerate too.
In the early 2000’s there was a documentary on Hyundai’s fully automated factory. Required 3 full time workers, all of them maintenance. Every system had redundancies, to prevent the line from shutting down. Parts were delivered by truck (on special trailers that coupled to specific docks that automatically supplied the assembly line) or were made on site. It took 16 hours to fully assemble a car from start to finish and once the assembly line was full, a new car rolled off the line every 24 minutes.
It was something incredible to watch, as the factory was a closed ecosystem. Cameras filmed from behind observation windows used to monitor the activity. Even if an assembly robot was to break, the line would halt, the faulty machine was rolled out automatically through a maintenance line/door and the spare would role in, in a matter of seconds.
I really don’t understand your logic, guys. Why would that (supposedly evil) guy give you anything for free? Why are you his responsibility? Why don’t you go and build your own robot? Or maybe you don’t need a robot. Find a land, and start farming your own food.
I really don’t understand this logic… who taught you that you’re entitled to other people’s achievements and successes?!
I used to think this way. But when tens of millions of people are struggling to pay rent, put food on the table, and buy medicine, it becomes that rich guy’s problem. In general you really don’t want huge chunks of your population to be desperate with nothing to lose. That’s bad news.
If you want to talk economics, this isn’t the rich guy’s problem. This is the problem that the government is so huge and that it’s printing money so much that it’s causing inflation to fill the pockets of big corporations. The ethos in lemmy, apparently, is communism due to ignorance, more than understanding economics and trying to implement self-responsibility to fix these problems.
Like I told another guy here: You either shrink the government to get a deflationary economy and make your money better, or you expect your government to solve all your problems and face inflation. You can’t have it both ways.
It’ll become the rich guy’s problem when tens of millions of desperate Americans with nothing to lose grab their pitchforks. We are slowly but surely getting there.
I really doubt it. Have you seen the movie Elysium? It’s gonna be the same, except that the ending isn’t gonna be that nice because all those with power will side with those who can fund them.
Except that they have planes now. They can fuck things up so bad while accumulating wealth, then fly away and deal with none of the consequences while they spend money from their vast bank accounts in Switzerland.
What kind of logic is that? What’s stopping you from being rich? Did someone assign who gets rich and who isn’t?
Go make a company, build something the people need, and make money!
Did you see how Jeff Bezos looked like in the 90s? He was begging for investment money to create Amazon, while investors asked “what is internet?”. No one is entitled to anything. You work hard and you might succeed if you do it right.
Let’s say this is right. Then you should try to explain this: Why are most people not rich?
Because most people are lazy. This is not only a fact based on anecdote, but it’s a statistical fact even assuming a normal distribution of effort. And while everything I say is up to debate, this fact is absolutely not up for debate. In fact, I don’t waste a single day without learning something new, and I see Every. F-ing. Single. Person… around me not even reading a book and wondering “why do I get paid like shit?”, well, “because you’re replaceable by anyone, dumbass”. Learn a skill that only a small handful can do, and see how the money will fly your way. So, yeah, you guys are lazy. You have no idea how much work success takes on average.
Are they? Or is it because everyone knows their efforts are not compensated properly?
If you want people to not be lazy, pay them. You pay 10 dollars, you get 10 dollars of effort. Blindly labelling this as being lazy is quite a… hear this, a lazy way of thinking. Heh. Millions are studying in university to get a job, I would say that they are working really hard! But are their efforts reciprocated properly?
Effort doesn’t mean shit. I can go to the street, pick a rock, and put back down, and redo that 100 times. That’s huge effort, but it isn’t worth shit. Value isn’t measured like this. People who only know how to do one thing anyone can do and don’t want to improve are lazy. No other label is appropriate. Make something needed that only a handful can do and you’ll be rich.
And btw, learning in a college doesn’t qualify as working hard, and more importantly, learning in college isn’t a requirement for success. Your whole worldview needs shaking… I feel bad for this generation!
And there are college graduates making 90k/yr in the US. That’s why I said efforts are not being compensated properly. The fact that other trades are earning more does not affect this conclusion, think about it more.
Imagine basing your judgement on generational stereotypes. Oh no, millennials. Oh no, Gen Z. Oh no, it must be facebook. What other contributional points can you guys provide?
Again, if you’re a failure in college, maybe college isn’t for you. However, unfortunately, college has become a placeholder for anyone who spent their teens with video games instead of planning their future. Everything you know about life is fucked up to the point where you think that it’s a rule of thumb that going to college must mean making more money. No, boy. Again, good plumbers make more than mediocre college graduates. Make a plan and stop following what your failed society has planned for you.
All my friends, including myself, make shit loads of money because we do things that are rare in the economy, and our skills are rare. So don’t bother being valuable with skills, I guess you better keep serving coffee in Starbucks and wonder why you get paid so little. You are ignorant and hopeless as hell.
And just FYI, I grew up in the gutter and learned alone. Go read a f-ing book instead of complaining on social media.
You’ve gotta stop thinking people serving coffee at Starbucks are inferior. They may not make giant contributions to society, and that’s their prerogative. They should still have a nice life, since you still need coffee made by someone else.
If you don’t need coffee, cool. Low quality morons like you are just background noise to the rest of us living in harmony.
Kind of makes it easier if you can get a 60 million dollar loan from daddy like Trump did.
Or if White Daddy owns an Emerald mine in Black South Africa, taken by force by military from Europe, like was the case for Elron Musk. So how was that fair to all South Africans?
You are completely blind if you think there is an even playing field.
Yes there may be the occasional anecdotes, like Jeff Bezos who weren’t born rich, but for them it requires both insanely hard work and luck.
Anecdotes are not a statistic that proves anything. And the statistics clearly say that if you are rich, chances are overwhelming that you were born into it.
Yet the rich have a sense of entitlement that they somehow deserve to be rich, but not the people who have to work two jobs, and never have a vacation. How do you arrive at that is a fair system?
Yes, of course. Everything is a straw man. Prove me wrong and stop saying… oh sorry, “hinting” that there’s no point in trying. More importantly, stop making that impression to people. We need more people to build new things and work hard. Not more losers in Starbucks serving coffee.
I never said he would give you anything for free. I said quite the opposite. Idk how you interpreted “everyone will have nothing and fight over garbage to eat” as “we’ll be given free stuff”. It seems you’re arguing a point I never made.
It starts with a basic idea like all people should have access to food, clean drinking water, shelter, healthcare, and a basic minimum quality of life. For most people, access to these things are currently granted by working and earning a wage.
Wealth and resources are finite. As a company generates profits and it gets hoarded by a minority of people, that means there are less and less resources every single day for the rest of the population.
As companies implement more automation, there are fewer jobs. With fewer jobs, that means there are fewer people who can afford the basic necessities of life. As companies introduce technology which can work faster than humans, it devalues a humans value to companies meaning less pay for employees, many of whom are living paycheck to paycheck as it is.
Furthermore, with these reductions in cost to produce a product through automation and robotics we do not see a related decrease in consumer prices.
In short, a person earns less while prices of goods continue to rise. The quality of life of the vast majority of the populace is continually going down.
Not everyone can be a CEO, executive, or high earner. It’s just a physical impossibility. In addition, these same people weild disproportionate power in the legislature. They are able to manipulate the rules that increase the barrier of entry into a business as well as manipulate markets to prevent my goods from generating a significant profit, if they so desires.
So while I do not feel entitled to what they produce, finding land and starting a farm would not secure those basic necessities of life and the opportunities to do so decrease daily.
It starts with a basic idea like all people should have access to food, clean drinking water, shelter, healthcare, and a basic minimum quality of life. For most people, access to these things are currently granted by working and earning a wage.
No one is entitled to anything. You’re confusing what “would be great” with what reality is.
Again, no matter how much automation there is, you can always build your own thing. You don’t need a job under anyone. You can go start on your own, fail 100 times, and succeed at time 101. I’ve seen tons of people do that, including millionaires.
So while I do not feel entitled to what they produce, finding land and starting a farm would not secure those basic necessities of life and the opportunities to do so decrease daily.
What you call “basic necessities” aren’t really basic. You want to enjoy modern civilization without contributing to it. Find a way to be part of it, or go back to farming and no one will have beef with you. Your health care today is better than the richest elite 100 years ago. Never forget that, and never forget you’re not entitled to any of it.
In short, a person earns less while prices of goods continue to rise. The quality of life of the vast majority of the populace is continually going down.
Because you keep voting for governments that keeps increasing government spending and printing money. You refuse personal responsibility and you think the government should solve all your problems. You can’t have it both ways. Either solve your problems by yourself to have a deflationary economy with less government spending, or make the government spend more and enjoy more inflation. It’s simple math.
All these are problems you’re creating. You’re still free to leave to another country to farm your own land.
How? By coercing them to give up their success? Hell no. I’m not gonna be part of this! If someone gives up something voluntarily, that’s cool. Otherwise I’m against it.
No, you should stop telling people what to do just because you’re not even trying. You’re free to be the failure you always wanted to be, but you’re also free to do the same and build your own empire with hard work.
You’re way off. I already got mine, thanks to my own hard work and the support of friends, family, and the free gifts of civilisation in which we all partake.
I don’t deny that I got help to get where I am, and that’s it’s only right that I pay back into the system that has helped me prosper. It would be criminal not to pay back what I can easily afford. It should be criminal IMO.
Ps if you’re seriously interested in continuing this convo in good faith I am too. I promise I’ll be less chirpy and more open minded.
A. All humans exist on the virtue of other’s achievement except for Mowgli, and even he was raised by wolves.
B. The social contract between citizens and the sovereign means that the people give up freedom so that the sovereign will provide - thus bringing order into chaos. If a nation fails to provide said order to an individual, he is right to be mad.
I mean, unless you’re talking about authoritarian government, in which case… well… no, you aren’t entitled to anything the government doesn’t allow and you do as you’re told.
Governments are not a bunch of benevolent gods. It’s a bunch of people seeking their own interest (like everyone else), and they will do everything they can to keep the racket going. This idea that the government is there to solve your problems is ridiculous. Especially that the primary cause of the whole economy being in the gutter comes from money-printing by the government. When people predicted inflation because of all the “stimulus checks” in 2020 and printing over 60% of the money supply in a fe months, they were called conspiracy theorists. Look at where we are now. The economy is going to shit and no one cares, including your “non-authoritarian government”.
No one is there to save you or help you. Get this out of your head. There’s no “social contract” except for what you believe to keep you tamed.
I’m from Germany. Would you like to talk about the energy policies in Germany that have caused inflation to sky rocket? Or maybe the ECB printing money to oblivion? You wanna talk about how business are getting wrecked with electricity costs?
Governments are people, no matter where. They have their agendas, and they’ll do what it takes to achieve them whether alone or by coordinating with the devil. If you agree with them, it’s a coincidence. One day you’ll disagree with them and they’ll screw you over and throw you under the bus. It’s a matter of time.
During crisis times that are severe enough, everyone becomes animals. That’s an extreme moral judgement.
And Europe as a whole definitely screwed up by drinking cheap Russian gas for heating, instead of investing in more localized, sustainable energy production. That is true and valid criticism. It is crippling Europe right now, and makes the closure of all those nuclear power plants seem so wrong…
However, your assumption that governments only work as the devil or with the devil are wrong, or we wouldn’t have days off, public healthcare, right to unionize, or even the famous German tap water.
0.5 Euro per kWh is ridiculously high, but people aren’t killing each other for water. Missiles aren’t in the air.
It is not so black and white. It is not all doom and gloom.
Health care? Don’t make me laugh. At times we waited 6 months for a doctor’s appointment to the point where we had to book based on an emergency to just see the freaking doctor. Another story, my mom was almost hooked on morphine because the doctor wasn’t authorized to prescribe MRI after MONTHS of treatment because of the dumb regulations in health care. Taking an xray is an appointment. Give me a break!
You know how long it takes an xray where I live? 10 minutes. MRI never took more than a few days. I can’t tell you where I live, obviously. But hey, I got out of that freaking hell in Germany.
Crisis, huh? You know, when the covid “crisis” was going on, my company was begging me to stay when I was quitting to leave Germany because I’m very skilled and productive. They told me “don’t worry, the covid crisis is almost over”, you know what I told them? I told them “you still don’t understand politicians, do you? Do you know how politicians make you forget a crisis? With another crisis”. And see how right I was. I’m the best at predicting the future, not because I’m smart, but because I’m not brain-washed, and your future isn’t so bright. So, enjoy the series of crises in your “democratic socialist” countries.
Anyway, besides all that, you’re just pawns. The “government” doesn’t really care about you except to vote for them to stay in power, and they’ll do the bare minimum to win that. The time will come when food becomes unaffordable with all these businesses closing and the Euro inflating. I assure you, the pawns will justify it with another “crisis”.
Yep, I’m an asshole. At least I’m an honest asshole that isn’t trying to paint the sky pink with “democratic socialist” countries as if that’s the best thing that ever existed.
Though I’m not an asshole for no reason. I want EVERYONE to be powerful like me. I want everyone to determine their own fate. I want everyone to serve their community and be strong with clear goals and not need an 8 Euro/hour job. And that’s where you’re wrong. Europe is doomed because of that, not because “everyone is doomed”.
If everyone understands the consequences of the pink sky picture you’re painting, which is the awful politics, health care, standard of life due to inflation and being a pawn, etc, despite living in one of the most industrial countries in the world, then people will know that something is wrong and will be able to squeeze politicians more to get more, or they can leave and hurt them by lowering their economic output. Though if everyone served coffee in Starbucks, and got UBI from the government, they’ll never have a chance to have a better life, and that’s exactly what I’m fighting for, and besides all the facts against communism and socialism that gets people to argue online, this is why it’s bad. Because normally the government serves the people, but if people get paid by the government, then people serve the government, and voting becomes nothing but a game where whoever bribes the people more with their own money gets more votes, and that’s where we’re headed.
Solution? Stop saying that there’s no point in making power, wealth and money, and do it! That’s why I’m here telling people to try.
In a way, but not exactly. I’m saying that the goal of every individual should be to become as strong, independent and powerful to have the choice to leave if the government messes up. This whole idea that “it’s great the government is giving free stuff” is the problem, which extends to the idea of this post. People should be pissed when the government gives free stuff. It only means that society has failed because, normally people should be strong and self-sufficient. But politicians benefit, as explained earlier, and love it when the people become dependent on them. It just makes them more powerful. And it’s not like the government is creating anything. It’s just a bunch of parasitic elites who become more powerful the weaker people become.
Am I saying we shouldn’t have a government? No. This isn’t what I’m saying.
I’m saying that there should be a balance of power, where people understand that the government is there to serve them, and the first step there is to reject all notions of socialism and encourage self-sufficiency in a strong economy, where individuals and their communities don’t need the government, but the government needs them. But we’re headed in the opposite direction, where people are propagandizing how great it would be if they get free money from the government, while they sit home and be lazy because “there’s no point in trying”. A person that receives their allowance from the government has zero say or freedom in anything, because once they open their mouth, the handouts can stop and they don’t know how to get out and make money, as opposed to someone who doesn’t need anyone (except their local community in emergencies) to survive.
So basically more segregation in which a confederation of cities declare certain things unified. What is to be unified? What is the point of the government then? Military?
It seems like you’re problem is more with the implementation of government then it is with it’s function.
Also, how would you say we should treat the cripple? The ignorent? The recovering in hospitals?
I have to say I’m having trouble understanding your first sentence. The English is a little broken. And btw, it’s “your problem”, not “you’re problem”.
But from what I understand, you seem to be taking the opposite extreme and creating a false dichotomy. It’s not “all or nothing” for governments. Having a small government (i.e., a government that doesn’t spend a big fraction of the GDP) doesn’t mean we don’t have a military, but it just means that the government serves the people, which seems to be fading away now when people depend on the government’s paycheck.
The cripple, the ignorant, etc, should be taken care of by their own communities and families. This is how it always has been, like 100 years ago. This is the best way to deal with this because not everyone deserves free help, since it’s close-to-impossible to know whether someone is being willfully lazy or really needs help. When the government mandates theft from working citizens (whether with money printing or taxes) and giving it to the lazy, you’re basically providing an inventive to be lazy, which is why the welfare recipient numbers just go up, and it never goes down. While on the other hand, in a closed community, people know the behavior of each other and each individual, and when someone needs help they receive it (and I have always helped my community when problems happen), and if they’re being willfully lazy, they can be punished to adjust their behavior by the community members that know whether they deserve the help. This should be the goal: To incentivize productivity and support of your local communities… not to throw money at people. Money alone has always only made things worse, by increasing dependence and entitlement and even inflation.
The golden question here is: How do we get back people to the workforce after having created this huge dependence on free government money and reducing their freedoms as a price. I think society will have to collapse first, which is what’s happening slowly by a reduction in the standard of living. The day will come, sooner or later, when collapse will create many angry people, and those will eat each other. We don’t need Thanos for that. People will destroy themselves with their stupidity.
Yes, I made some mistakes. Writing on the phone during lunch.
I’m using extremes to accentuate a point where your system fails.
If your country is constantly providing welfare to people consistently, it is not functioning correctly.
That is, unless they’re crippled or ignorent. In which case you said “If I’m not rich enough, I rather watch my daughter die to leukemia then to have a lazy son”. I know, extreme, but that’s the length of which your philosophy stands -
You prioritize productivity (catching the willfully lazy), over helping a needy person (which the willfully lazy are good at faking). I’m also equating it to your children in order to drive home the full extent of the law, since all are equals to it.
Instead of reworking legislation you just wanna burn everything down.
Claiming that something has always worked well as an argument falls flat on it’s face with one name - Galileo Galilei. You could argue Newton as well.
Punished by the community? Isn’t that already happening by having local and national judiciary?
Unless you’re talking mob justice… then I’m sorry I don’t believe we should go back to living in caves. An impartial court that relies on facts adheres more to the scientific method then my neighbor or even myself if I am involved in a crime.
Sure, you can move the social aspect to the cities instead of the government, but you’d make small cities less appealing to live in, intensifying over population, and at the same time lower the quality of actual services delivered as they are smaller in effect then possible then a national scale.
Your golden question comes up whenever any society heads towards survival terms, not the species.
I do think that nature will bring us worse problems than we can create, though. And soon. But that’s a different topic.
For some reason you think that the society can be efficient as much as communities are. This isn’t true. Judgment from your community is much more accurate from a judiciary that doesn’t know anything about you. I think this is your only problem in your thought process. Once you realize that people should be helped only by those who care about them, and helping people you don’t know by giving them money wrecks them 99.99% of the time, you’ll know where I’m coming from. Reworking legislation doesn’t help, because humans have always been better at loopholing laws than following them. Politicians manipulate them to reach their goals (maximize dependence of the population), and people loophole them to maximize their benefit. This will never work. You will never, ever, find the set of rules that will make a perfect society, but you can find the set of rule that makes a perfect small community where people care for each other.
You don’t need to move to villages to make this work, btw. You can just keep the government out of it, and make help come from local communities. People will help each other (and have always done that).
A person that doesn’t know you will judge you by the law and the situation at hand, and will also take into account your past - should it be relevant. If he doesn’t, then he/she is failing their role as a judge.
A person that knows you will be biased, either to hate or love you, or anything else in between. They cannot remove the bias, as bias always exists and a judiciary needs to minimize it for a fair trail to take place.
By the same way you claim the government will always be wrong and corruptable, I argue that your community will always be an easy target for manipulation, nepotism and corruption. Stop using that argument as justification for anything other than human tendencies, you are repeating a moot point.
Communities are weaker than governments. Supporting 150 people due to a closing factory is hard on a city of 10,000 until they get back up. It is nothing for a nation.
You could delegate more authority to the local administration, but that’ll move the seat of corruption from A to B.
Communities are how humanity survived for thousands of years. The governmental structures, that are today corrupt and aren’t made for us, simple people, have been up for only short period of time. I think the evidence isn’t on your side. You’re talking ideals about governments, then judging communities on points that are at best questionable and at worst a complete misunderstanding on how the world works today.
For example, you think judging a person by “absolute law” is possible. This is not realistic. Judges in law, today, try always to take the circumstances into account, include personal and daily behavior. A criminal who fights every day with everyone and/or ex-convict isn’t like a good man who takes care of his family and does a mistake. This is actually the fault of our schooling system… they make you think that courts today, which are the playing field of the rich and whoever has the money wins, are the castles of absolute justice. This is beyond ridiculous… and shows that you’ve never went to court to get what’s yours. Go and try to get what you deserve in court and good luck with that. Not once… not once I was able to benefit from police or courts because they’re not for us, including cases where things were stolen from me. Yet schools brainwashed you with ideals that are never true in real life. You not realizing how the courts work today, yet defending them with ideals is the rubber stamp that proves that society is successfully brainwashed to defend its oppressor.
I like this saying because it accurately describes you: “We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying”.
I’ll use few words since you clearly aren’t reading what I’m writing -
Go read about the scientific method. Go and read about what truth is.
Hint - talking as if the only thing that matters is what you see is not just wrong, it is meaningless. You wouldn’t be able to live in a world that you describe as true.
I don’t know why you think I’m not reading what you’re typing, though I am actively avoiding following you into subtopics because I want this to end. So, have a good life.
FYI, I have a PhD in physics from a top university in Europe. So, believe you me, I know what science is way more than you.
Dude, your arrogance is another level. Of course you won’t believe me, because that will shatter your whole belief system… “how could someone really smart believe all the things I disagree with?”… it’s much easier for you to not believe that. Don’t worry. I understand. Whatever makes you happy!
“Apocalypse”… says the guy living in the crashing economy where his heart could blow up before he gets a doctor’s appointment, while my principles work in a capitalist country where I go to a doctor whenever I want and don’t even pay that much. You really need a reality check on your arrogance and brainwashing. Learn how to end a conversation without being smug. It’s unfortunate that I wasted my time with you and you learned absolutely nothing, not even that your health care sucks that you should be a little humble. Wow. Go have a good life and stop trying to convince me what they brainwashed you with. Just end it.
Treat slaves who think they’re rich with respect? Treat a belligerent dick who condescended me with every wall of text that blatantly ignored my neutral arguments with “the truth” as you provided 0 facts but your shitty life experience?
Go be humble in a library. Or buy one since you’re rich and I’m poor or some shit you tell yourself to feel good about leaving your country.
I recommend reading John Stewart Mill, Thomas Hobbes and jean jacques rousseau.
Your perception is not capitalistic, it is child like anarchism.
Oh, yeah. It’s not the truth that your standard of living is shit now and going down by the day. It’s all lies… you know. I’m making it all up. I should’ve made fun of you when you sent the Lebowski meme and ended the conversation, because that was when you realized that everything I said is truthful and called me an asshole. But here I am I learned my lesson. When an ignorant pleb calls you an asshole, it basically means they don’t have a logical answer and it’s the best concession I’ll ever get. So, you go enjoy your dumb socialistic dream, and I’ll enjoy my “childish anarchism”, aka, capitalism, where I practice personal responsibility and reap the fruits of my labor and create a better life for my family and community. Just remember that the more you fall, the more I’ll be watching and laughing. Your electricity is 0.5 Euro/kWh, and it was 0.3 when I left. And it’ll just keep going up, and I’ll just be laughing. When I see you cry on social media, I will only laugh more and say that you deserve worse, because I’m always right, and I will always be right, and that’s why my standard of living is better than yours. Have fun licking the boot while convincing yourself that giving the homeless drink money is how societies prosper. Heh. Ciao!
I am not German. I assume you aren’t German too. In fact, I think you’re a bot.
Standard of living isn’t dropping where I am, it is just getting more expensive. It’s ok, I make a very good salary, unlike physics doctors.
You hold such dichotomous opinions you strike me as a child, who wandered in after a Joe Rogan marathon. I’m surprised you didn’t talk about Crypto this whole time.
I have plenty of logical answers. If you would’ve pulled your head out of your ass, you could’ve read some.
Again, they are mostly paraphrases of the founding philosophical fathers of the modern democracy, something you don’t seem to understand or have read.
You just parrot capitalism, while ignoring Adam Smith’s own requirements for free markets, and call it “realism”.
I’m interested in your programming now. To see how much effort was put into a propaganda tool.
Hahahahahaha… you’re amazing! You’re so brainwashed to the point you’d rather believe I’m a bot than micro-challenge your view of reality. Dude, that’s a new level of pathetic.
And FYI, I make high 6 figures in USD, so kiss it. You think I would stay in research in Germany accepting money stolen from the population? I’m a man of principle, and you’re a clown.
Never forget. I’m watching and laughing as you fall.
I do understand that you all come from an assembly line, but guess what, I’m not like you. I’m an individualist. That’s why I’m having a better life while you spend more and more of your little pay while the government steps on you because you don’t matter. I have a brain to use that wasn’t washed in believing that the shitty life you’re living is great, just because the homeless get monthly money for beer.
And that stupidity of not understanding stealing from public… big ooof… dude, your brainwashing is so strong. I can see why you’d call any fact I say “gaslighting”.
Cheap bot, yet it’s good enough to keep you on your toes… hahahahahahaha!
The rich guy didn’t built the robot by himself. Most likely he only financed by paying the people who actually built it. He didn’t built his business by himself but paid people to built it for him even if he had the idea.
He had an idea because he’s smart and had the education to support his intelligence. He had that education because someone paid for it, either family or the state. Even if he paid for it he had the upbringing that taught him the value of education and had the luck to be born in a country where that education is valued and pays off.
Nothing he has was built by himself only. The only thing we do by ourselves is taking a shit.
“most likely”? So basically there’s zero success stories from people who started in their garage and made a multi-billion empire? Go check how Google and Apple started. No one is stopping you from doing something great and becoming a billionaire other than your delusion of entitlement to free money and work from others.
Even those people needed others’ work to start their own company my dude. The chips in Apple computers or servers that Google relied on didn’t grow on trees. Not to mention that the billionaires you mentioned were educated.
Guess who funded their education. Either directly or indirectly.
You’re not gonna convince anyone here that you lack the resources to start a company in your bed room. You’re just lazy and you don’t want to work. It’s that simple.
Evidence? Tons of millionaires don’t even have college degree.
How many of those millionaires contribute something positive to the world? There are some who’ve made systems to automatically reset power breakers on distribution lines, automate management of water flow to large farms, etc.
Then there are morons like you who sell pillows filled with low quality foam out of their garage.
And who decides whether it’s positive… you? You, Mr. Loser on lemmy who wants to quantify value, not based on people’s valuation for it, who freaking paid for it, but based on whatever standard gives you free money so that you don’t feel like such a loser serving coffee in Starbucks? Get out of here!
Uh, moron, look up the difference between “quantify” and “qualify”. You’ve swapped them, but I’m not surprised.
Anyway yeah, in discussions with a large number of people across different walks of life, the important things in life seem to be clean running water, quality food and the ability to make positive change in the world we had no choice being born into.
What is positive change? Slightly nebulous, but it seems to center on making people around them happier and have an easier life. Money doesn’t seem to factor into that, it’s more about “quality” of life. Wouldn’t you want that for your friends and family too?
Google began as a research project at Stanford and was funded by over a million dollars from stanford people and family of the founders. The guy who wrote the code wasn’t part of the founding.
Idk much about apple other than the guy who designed the apple 1 wanted to give away the schematics because it came from his time at a computer club but the other guy said no.
Dude, google started in a garage. There was even a story about that lady Suzan who was the YouTube CEO and how she was part of that garage. There are videos out there from the 90s showing how it looked like. Stop making shit up! There are f-ing videos proving you wrong! It was in a garage.
So what, just because there are investors they didn’t start in a garage? Anyone with a good idea and a plan can get funding from VCs after booting up the idea.
What’s wrong with you people? Seriously.
What are you trying to prove exactly? That no one can start a company? Everyone can it costs pennies. No one can get funding with a good idea and hard work? Anyone can and everyone does and I’ve seen this with my own eyes (recently I saw two brothers get 8 million USD funding for a freaking dumb NFT project). That no one can succeed except with connections? Not true, and examples are everywhere, including big tech today. What’s the mission here exactly? Because the mission I see here is encouraging people to not even try and just be lazy because “there’s no point”.
What am I trying to prove? I’m trying to prove that anyone working hard has a chance, but sitting your ass and being lazy will give you no chance.
You said anyone could start a successful company with nothing and used google and apple as examples, using their onetime occupancy of garages to imply that they’re examples of companies starting from nothing.
They’re not examples of people starting with nothing and the presence of garages doesn’t change that fact.
Why not use some different examples to prove your point?
Because you don’t know the personal examples I know. You can look up statistics of small businesses and startups and learn how to get funding. I think the average exit from a successful startup is in the 10s of millions USD after 5 years of work. It needs hard work, and it’s not easy, because no one is gonna invest in your project unless you’re dedicated. BUT, it’s totally possible and I’ve seen it tons of times. I’ve seen idiots get more than $15 million funding. Some fail, some succeed. In fact the majority fail, but while they’re failing they learn, and VCs have interest in investing because their expected returns based on statistics are higher than their investment on average.
There’s so much work to be done before calling it quits, especially for someone who doesn’t know what a VC is and how it works.
I don’t think it would be doxing to just say the startup examples you are thinking of. Certainly they’re not so small and insignificant that a person could easily narrow down your identity simply by the businesses you’re familiar with…
BLS says 25% of new businesses fail in the first year and only half make it to five. Zippia says only 40% of startups turn a profit and 90% fail.
you just drink the kool aid from billionaires thinking you’ll be like one but you never will, the amount of money the 1% has is an amount noone should ever have
Because rich people don’t cry on social media “the world is not fair, and I’m entitled to other people’s free labor because I’m a loser”. I have people around me from both sides of the aisle, and guess who complains like you are? Hint: It’s not those who have good jobs and rare skills they busted their asses to get.
wtf are you even talking about?? when did I ever say anything like what you said?? I said that the myth that google and apple started in a garage is fake. That’s it. Get the fuck out of your head and learn to read.
And you criticize my sources and provide a video without them.Really smart guy move.
Well, you can physically SEE THE FUCKING GARAGE. You’ll believe some text over your own eyes?
Getting funding doesn’t mean it’s not a garage. Facebook started in a house in SF and before that it was in a freaking dorm, and got funding later. So what?! Does that mean it didn’t start in a dorm room?
Yeah, go believe whatever makes you happy to believe that you’re a loser no matter what. Believe that.
If you know anything about today’s economy you’ll see how to get money from VCs, thanks to all the money printing and inflation. But you’re so ignorant you can’t recognize that. Go read a book on VC funding, but I guess you’re too busy complaining on social media.
And no, I’m not backpedaling. You’re either poor or too young with rich parents you don’t understand basic reality and think you’re helping with your stupid, uneducated ideas.
if your reading comprehension and assuming is even similar to what you show in this thread, I doubt you even understand basic shit. So yeah have a great day!
There’s so many assholes on lemmy and the internet. Best not to engage this moron.
Between you and me though this is my “favorite” part of this delusional thread:
Because rich people don’t cry on social media “the world is not fair, and I’m entitled to other people’s free labor because I’m a loser”.
That Australian real estate billionaire literally just got on social media the other day whining about how employees need to be put in their place because they think they have rights and empowerment. It was one of the most outrageous things I’ve ever heard and I’m a pretty pro business person.
The simple fact that Gates’ school even HAD a computer HE COULD RESERVE TIME ON for a personal project really highlights how much wealth he had access to. Gates was never super rich growing up, but he and the rest had access to privileges few had in those days because of the wealth they had access to.
Even if they truly started the business from modest means, they still benefited from living in a strong stable educated society with all the resources and infrastructure etc that provides. There’s a reason you don’t see many entrepreneurs from sub Saharan Africa.
Yeah it helps if daddy is rich, like Donald Trump who claims he did it all by himself, on a “small” ($ 60 mill.) loan from his dad, and then he inherited a huge fortune.
Or Elron Musk who grew up on the benefits of daddy owning an emerald mine.
Both are absolutely the worst kind of narcissist sociopaths that come from privilege, so the old claim of the rich having heavy responsibilities they learn to manage, is complete bullshit too.
Manpower will always cost less that a robot, no matter in what time, we are easily to replace and even use. Quality of work do no matter, quantity can be but still you need people to buy your shit, no manpower no economy.
A robot works harder, does more, performs better and costs less than unskilled workers. A robot also does not harass coworkers or suddenly start working at another company. It would be incredibly stupid to keep hiring people who have no value to the company.
The only risk is that these unemployed proles would suddenly decide to seize the means- oh wait guns are banned
A robot is finicky, fails constantly, performs slower, and requires me to fucking babysit the piece of shit all night to deal with faults and errors. Theoretically the robot does the entire job of welding and bending and etching, but in practice they need me to make sure it doesn’t shit itself.
I’m sure, at some point, they can replace me. We aren’t there yet.
Not OP, but I’m an industrial field tech, my two cents:
“Robot” is a very wide term used for a bunch of different stuff, but mostly for industrial automation devices, which, unfortunately, at the moment are still very dumb. Industrial automation improves output, if your robot really is slower than a human, somebody messed up very badly.
What it doesn’t improve, and instead reduces, is adaptability; humans can perceive and reason on a vastly superior scale to a machine, and they can adapt their actions to changing factors in a process much better than a machine can, and they don’t need to be programmed for every single possibility.
It’ll take a while before machines can replace humans in non-repetitive tasks, but in those task they excel, provided they are properly designed, built and maintained.
Oh it’s “faster” but constantly fucks up and needs to retry the same job over and over, so it averages out to being slower than me just manually putting parts into a welding press. Also, constantly down and needs maintenance to come troubleshoot because it’s angry that a fixture got stuck sideways in an aperture or whatever.
I suspect they’re not actually properly maintained, because the company decided it would be better if there weren’t manuals for the robots. They don’t want us wasting time reading!
I’ve worked in multiple factories, this is just how robots are out here in the Midwest. Maybe you costal elites have nice robots that work, but here in the heartland they’re all shit lol
Hey thanks for considering me elite, though idk if being 100km from the sea counts as coastal… around my parts I’m as far as you can be from the sea, tbh
I bet it’s just running scripts though. It won’t have any actual intelligence.
When people talk about robots taking over human jobs they’re talking really about AI powered robots. Ones capable of at least some actual thought processes rather than just blindly moving around based on what some unchanging computer code tells it to do. Ones that are capable of adapting to new situations and error handling on their own.
Companies don’t really have those robots yet.
Comparing current industrial construction robots to AI robots of the future is like comparing a spinning wheel to a 3D printer.
Robots are a different discussion from AI, because as soon as AI can replace human labor basically all desk jobs will vanish almost overnight. Manual labor will take longer to replace because it’s not just a matter of programming, but installing and engineering the robotics necessary to do the work.
And even then, humans might still be cheaper since we’re just disposable meat lol
Yup, it’ll probably take a few generations after work robots become commonplace for capitalism to finally shuffle off. Life will just suck a whole lot more in the intervening time as you fight for the few unskilled jobs and spend 25+ years in education to get the few skilled jobs available
The problem with automation is that the unions lose power. Collectivise? We’ll just replace you with scab bots.
We’re not set up to use automaton as we should - the basis for a transition to a decommodified society where people’s needs are met and they have more leisure time. Instead, we’ll just further centralise economic resources until capitalism breaks down because noone can afford food or shelter. At that point, if we don’t eat the rich, we’ll consolidate back into autocracy thanks to their disproportionate economic power.
I’m not proposing we smash the machines - I’m proposing we share the benefit of the productivity they take over, and use it to fund people to work less rather than pouring all the benefits of the work that those machines do into the pockets of the likes of Bezos at the direct expense to workers.
Use the machines for good rather than amplifying evil.
I agree. I was talking about right now. If people did this today, nobody would be replaced as everything would collapse, which only shows how much power the working people actually have.
Most people (by design) underestimate the power of unions and strikes. Just look up what countries had strikes and what happened after. It’s always the same (if the country is democratic). Employers lose, employees win.
The trick today is to keep this info from us and feed us anti union propaganda. This encourages the sentence you just used (we‘ll just replace you).
No they wont, not until we built their robots. After we did that, we have actually ruined ourselves.
Yup. Whether related to robots or not, Walmart is DECREASING wages and others may yet follow their ghastly example even as consumer prices and corporate profits soar 🤬
Add comment