exploding-heads are infiltrating our discussions

The screenshot shows the recommendations from join-lemmy.org.

Still being federated with exploding-heads does not mean the instance supports them. But it means that shit-heads are allowed to take part in the discussions on their communities. They do intoxicate the discussions we will have. They will attack minorities. Maybe you will not be harassed by them, more vulnerable people will be. They are allowed to moderate communities on these instances. Exploding-heads members actively guide young and unknowing people to their hateful instance.

They try to start discussions about the holocaust sh.itjust.works/post/227268. They create communities only to crosspost exploding-heads content lemmy.world/c/pharmaThey take over discussions against them exploding-heads.com/comment/132189 “WHY are vulnerable people joining a decentralized system? Isnt this why you want a closed, not for public eyes community?”

This was a link to exploding-heads, because when someone copies a permalink of a comment from them on another instance, it will be a link to their instance.

Are we building a place where vulnerable people are welcome and safe or are we building a place where nazis are welcome and safe?

They want you to block them, they comment that everywhere. They block people who are in favor of defederating them sh.itjust.works/post/225714When their opponents won’t see them anymore, they can harass and recruit without being noticed.

Blocking will not solve the problem. They will spread even when you close your eyes.

Maybe this was not done intentionally, but now there is a post with a list of ‘health communities on Lemmy’ with the first entry guiding to exploding heads. lemmy.world/post/396561

It is still possible that some of the mentioned instances do support them. The owner of sh.itjust.works says that because of “free speech” all other instances would be allowed. It is suspicious to me that his line is drawn only for lemmygrad sh.itjust.works/comment/130474

The decision to block the Lemmygrad instance was less a question of censorship, and more an issue of personal conviction. As a volunteer dedicating my personal resources and time to facilitating a space for users to create, discover, and discuss - not just on this instance, but across the Fediverse - I admit that this choice was made alone, selfishly, without the consent or thoroughly considering the collective opinion of the community. With the above said, sh.itjust.works has had the lemmygrad instance blocked from its first day.

I’d like to also point out that the lemmygrad instance has far more blocked instances than what is currently blocked here. Maybe you can create a post on that instance to see what that’s all about and report back?

At the same time they seem to ignore the call and vote to defederate with exploding-heads sh.itjust.works/post/433483.

They rejected to delete The_Donald from sh.itjust.works until they feared to get isolated from the other instances: lemmy.ml/post/1467310. They where aware of The_Donald and ignored early warnings. (lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/266248). TD was more important to them than keeping the only mod of their 4th biggest community c/patientgamers (sh.itjust.works/post/291747, sh.itjust.works/post/388922)

Since The_Donald was removed, I did not find more racist content on the mentioned servers. That is part their tactics. They act harmless but recruit to their instance, attract likeminded people and chase others away. Discussions on sh.itjust.works about such topics are very toxic already, soon they might be able to do more harm.

(My research is very limited, as i could not search for all exploding-heads member content on other instances by entering their domain. I know there are nice communities on sh.itjust.works.)

What can be done? On joinmastodon.org there is a Mastodon Server Covenant with very few useful rules, one of them is “Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia”. joinmastodon.org/covenantIt would be a first step to implement these rules for join-lemmy.org. At least instances that want to be recommended on there should have to agree to that rule.

More actions should be taken now. Please make suggestions. Things will only become more complicated. The next reddit wave is incoming.

For those who did not already know:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-ki…

This is not the first time new platforms face these problems, do we really have to repeat the same mistakes?

DrNeurohax,
DrNeurohax avatar

I'm all for free speech, but if the fediverse is going to have ANY chance of catching on, new users can't be bumping into Nazis and the like. The main on-boarding instances need to be akin to network TV - safe for pretty much everyone. From there they should be able to opt-in to more contentious communities. If that means a tiered system, so be it.

Have you ever turned on the TV to a positive commentary over the display of goosestepping twats? No. And if you did so within the first few channel flips, you'd just say, "I guess TV isn't for me." You don't have a big free speech debate in your head. There's no middle ground. It's amazing that they're so universally reviled that they are the default bad guy in every form of media. Why? Because everyone knows the universal rule - Nazis can fuck alllll the way off. It even runs past THAT goal post straight on to being illegal in the home of the movement. There is no bigger, "Whoa. We reeeally fucked up," than that.

As for other harassment, it has pretty much the same effect. Everyone knows that shit is out there if they look for it. The people coming here to compete for space in our latrines aren't worth having. If anything, we should be sending them back to Reddit.

I've seen a lot of refreshing, civil, reasonable discussion since moving here, to the point where I almost feel bad for not thanking someone for thanking me. It's almost like the entire community is recovering from social media PTSD. It's not about being fragile snowflakes. If anything, it's the exact opposite, with no internal dialogue beyond, "Oh, it's this? If I stay here I'll end up dead or in jail, and this isn't worth either. Bye."

Usually, new platforms have a few months before the garbage starts to accumulate, but everything here has been moving at a much faster clip. There isn't a ton of content here yet (and almost no OC), so interaction will make it or break it. I suspect we have a month, at most, before "free speech" turns to "open hate" and the platform dies.

LostCause, (edited )

Yeah I saw a controversy and blocked them a while ago, I lost family members to Q antiscience bullshit so I ain‘t going to deal with anything like it online. Only thing is I don‘t know if kbin instance block hides the users too and stops me from interacting with them? I really don‘t want anything to do with these guys.

iNeedScissors67,
iNeedScissors67 avatar

Anyone here reading from kbin know how to block the exploding heads domain? Been trying to find the domain through kbin to block it but can't really figure it out.

Kaldo,
Kaldo avatar

https://kbin.social/d/exploding-heads.com

and then click the block icon, same as you would for a magazine

deelightful,
deelightful avatar

For an instance, does the block icon hide just posts from that instance or also comments from users on that instance, do you know? I'd hate to have to individually block users on top of blocking the instance.

CarlsIII,

@Kaldo

@Menu @iNeedScissors67

What exactly is the block icon?

iNeedScissors67,
iNeedScissors67 avatar

The circle with the line through it to the right of the follow button

CarlsIII, (edited )

@iNeedScissors67

@Menu @Kaldo

I should have clarified I’m on mobile. Do you know where it is there?

Edit: Found it. Once again you have to scroll all the way to the bottom. That seems to be the rule of thumb on kbin: whatever you’re looking for is probably all the way at the bottom.

Kaldo,
Kaldo avatar

Yeah, mobile layout just tosses the sidebar stuff at the bottom since it can't fit to the right. Hopefully it's gonna improve once we get some actual apps for it.

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

Thank you!

Cube6392,

They're playing the traditional Alt-Right playbook, and they're playing a bunch of instance admins like fiddles. I've noticed a consistent pattern of abusive trolls being from that instance. My secondary account is on sh.itjust.works, and I'm looking for another instance to be my secondary instance that I use to look at lemmy.world content I can't see from this, my primary account. Thus far, there aren't any instances I can find that have a federation / defederation list that matches my ideal list, so for now, I have my happy account and my "it stresses me out" account.

It seems like there are two camps here in the threadiverse. People who are excited to find an instance admin who moderates the way they like, and people who think an instance admin is only responsible for uptimes and that this entire experiment should be fully unmoderated

Ignacio,
Ignacio avatar

In the meantime, we can block communities or users from that server. It's not the same thing as defederating, but it's something.

OtakuAltair,

Absolutely agree that instances featured in join-lemmy.org should all follow those basic rules:

Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia

Concerning to see that both vlemmy.net and lemmy.world are federated with them; I’m mainly on these.

imPastaSyndrome,

“Yes but who gets to decide that What is racism, sexism and homophobia and transphobia?”

Who watches the watchmen Batman? Who Rorascshes the big blue dong? Hmmm??

We should pretty much give up and let society be nothing but anarchism because trying might lead to failure, and then where would we be??

Ohio. No one wants to be Ohio.

Except maybe Ohio. Disgusting

gabuwu,

They are going to cause issues sooner rather than later in communities that don’t defederate from them. It’s quite literally just a given. I’m shocked some of those instances haven’t defederated from them already.

Cube6392,

A mix of naïveté and bad faith actors taking advantage of the naïveté are leading to the current environment, it seems like to me

gabuwu,

I think the whole attitude of "oh just block the community and ignore it" really comes from a privilege of not having to deal with the way those communities tend to intersect negatively with vulnerable communities when they were ignored on reddit and the mess that caused. Blocking their biggest communities from your own account does not stop them from giving them the potential to join discussions in bad faith, DMing threats, open up potential doxxings, community brigading, harassment, etc. There comes a point where simply ignoring them does not work as they always try to force their bullshit into communities outside of them and stir trouble if they aren't cut off preemptively. You aren't deplatforming them by defederating them, you are taking away their megaphone and potential to cause real harm those exact communities have shown to do time and time again in the past.

Cube6392,

The question I always find myself asking is, why is it that people only expect the targets of abuse to do the filtering of that abuse, and why, other than you yourself would like to enact abuse, would you want to leave people engaging in abusive behavior in position to continue being abusive? Beehaw has lamented there not being more flexible moderation tools allowing us to perform more powerful moderation actions, enabling the filtration of abuse on otherwise good servers, but until those tools exist, what good reason is there to ignore and enable abuse?

VoxAdActa,
VoxAdActa avatar

They're already causing issues. I've had two different people from that site, in two different, unrelated comment threads go all in on calling me a f*g and other slurs just right out there on main, while talking eugenics and forced sterilization.

Some of them are more subtle than others, but they are absolutely already going hard.

Rhabuko,

It’s this (mostly) American delusion of unlimited free speech on the internet and it never works out 🤷‍♂️.

fragmentcity,

Americans who understand the first amendment will tell you that freedom of association is inseparable from freedom of expression. The government (plus its agents) is the only entity constrained by the First Amendment. Everyone else benefits from it, including certain instance owners who don’t want to associate with certain others.

Landrin201,
@Landrin201@lemmy.ml avatar

I agree, it seems the owner of shit just works is one of those “free speech absolutist” types. It’s a plague here, and the worst part is that they NEVER actually believe in 100% absolute free speech. They almost universally want some leftists speech censored, but never nazis.

Tb0n3,

That’s why I moved there from lemmy.world. I’d rather not have somebody else tell me what to think or see.

Landrin201,
@Landrin201@lemmy.ml avatar

You cannot have a space which is welcoming to nazis which is also welcoming to minorities.

Nobody is telling you what to “think or see” when an instance gets deferderated. You’re welcome to think whatever you like, and to go seek it out. You’re just not welcome to bring it into some spaces.

gabuwu,

Yep. And (obviously) America is going to one day be forced to come to that same understanding that Germany was painfully forced to. I’m just hopeful it doesn’t take a genocide or some sort of dictatorship for a similar reckoning to occur. Germany might not be perfect, but there are many things American society could learn from that exist within modern day German culture especially in regards to cultural reconciliation with historical wrongs. It’s hard to really describe how happy it makes me feel that as a Jewish person I can say I would feel very safe and welcome living in and visiting most places in Germany, but it also makes me sad to an immense degree that I can truthfully say I’d probably feel safer most places there than in the most places in the states right now… :(

bren42069,

enjoy your echo chamber

edit: i just went and looked over there, you guys are lying, they aren’t nazis.

cypherpunks,
@cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

their admin says clearly that “racism, bigotry, sexism is allowed" there.

Frikisada,

Shit, to what server should I move that doesn't federate with nazis? Idc how they call themselves these days, you know what I mean with nazis

Also I see the name lemmygrad thrown around, what's the story with them?

The questions aren't specifically for OP

Quill7513,

Also it looks like lemmy.world (your home instance) has elected to defederate from exploding heads. They’re becoming an interesting sociological study as I noticed a pattern early on of them having a lot of chud-y types, but it seems like the admin staff at lemmy.world is not interested in being an instance that tolerates that kind of behavior (which I realize now, looking at the code of conduct on mastodon.world, should have been expected eventually to become the norm). This gives me high hopes for Beehaw and lemmy.world being refederated with eachother sooner rather than later. Lemmy.world is probably still fighting an uphill battle with how rudimentary moderation tools are on this platform, but it warms my soul to see

Quill7513,

Lemmygrad is a pro-authoritarian socialist instance

As far as instances that don’t federate with exploding heads, there’s sopuli.xyz, beehaw.org, slrpnk.net, and Lemmy.dbzer0.com

The first two are general purpose instances. Sopuli is kinda the most traditionally run instance. Its actively moderated, but its unlikely to defederate from an instance just because its big and moderating traffic from it is more than they can handle. Beehaw DOES defederate from instances that generate more traffic than they can manage. This is where my primary account is because the moderation style of “make the community a pleasant place to be regardless of the popularity of other instances’ popularity” is definitively my speed.

Slrpnk and dbzer0 are focused instances. Slrpnk is focused on ecological friendliness, sustainability, and making the physical world a more survivable space. They describe themselves as not trying to create a Utopian (impossibly idealistic) society, but rather a eutopian (acheivably idealistic) society. Dbzer0 is focused on digital anarchism. The slogan on their instance admin’s website alludes to the 90s slogan “You wouldn’t download a car” by effectively saying “yes I would, and I intend to.” I would say their mission is also eutopian in nature, but less focused on making our physical world more sustainable, but instead on the idea that the world would be more diverse and interesting if we put everything, and I mean EVERYTHING into the public domain. I’m not 100% sure I agree, but I definitively respect the ethos and the dedication to it. I guess what I’m saying is check it out, here them out, they’re not harmful or abusive. They’re filled with convictions, and I’d probably enjoy hanging out with them

scrappy_Duncan,

So, dumb question but what is exploding-heads? Are they actual Nazis or like far-right wackos and MAGA nuts?

Zehzin,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

A little of column A, a little of Columbine

Atemu,
@Atemu@lemmy.ml avatar

actual Nazis or like far-right wackos and MAGA nuts

Is there much of a difference nowadays?

scrappy_Duncan,

That comment sounds a little bigoted.

redballooon,

Not to me. It sounds quite sane.

antik,
@antik@lemmy.world avatar

Exploding-heads.com has been blocked by https://lemmy.world as well.

Full list of our linked and blocked instances can be found here: https://lemmy.world/instances

Menu,

Good. Are you actively moderating against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia?

antik,
@antik@lemmy.world avatar

Ofcourse. We will come up with an official statement soon and then I will edit my top post to link it but honestly this action was a no-brainer. Unanimous decision from everyone involved.

imPastaSyndrome,

Why do you have to sound like such a douchebag about this?

Hastur,
@Hastur@sh.itjust.works avatar

How about you curate your own filters and take care of your own filter-bubble (or echo-chamber for that matter)? The beauty of the Fediverse is that there’s no central instance to censor or dictate the course.

Start your own instance if you dislike the open marketplace of opinions.

Hastur,
@Hastur@sh.itjust.works avatar

To everyone downvoting this because you can’t stand your opinion being challenged:

I invite you to a discussion here.

PD: I am here in the Fediverse because I like to challenge other opinions as much as being challenged, this is how we, how humanity grows, learns and evolves. I’m not here to live in a safe space/echo-chamber and being reassured, this would be boring and mind-numbing.

Get out there, learn new things, test your opinions, ideals and biases against others and see how they evolve.

ABoxOfNeurons,

The problem is that the articles from exploring heads take an average of two sentences to reach an obvious and malicious lie. There is no room for discussion under those circumstances.

For those who don’t respect the authority of conservatives as the arbiters of reality, they have no purpose except as a glimpse into the abyss. It’s like having your stream of memes interrupted every few pages by a graphic crime scene photo, only with the dread that comes with knowing that the criminal has a wide support base.

Hastur,
@Hastur@sh.itjust.works avatar

OK but why ask for curated blocking (defederation, censorship) when you can decide what you want to see? Emails as protocol works despite the spam.

ABoxOfNeurons,

Because the same legion of full-time Eric Cartman impersonators smears the same hateful dogshit over normal comment threads. This is a lot more effective than individually banning every member of the inevitable asshat brigade. There’s room for instances that federate with them, but it probably shouldn’t be the default.

southsamurai,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

Because we can’t block an entire instance as users. We have to do it piecemeal, which is a major pain in the ass when every c/ on there is bloated shit.

Once lemmy ships that as a function, defederation isn’t necessary for this kind of situation.

And, there’s also the factor that it’s easier for people who want to deal with their shit to intentionally find it than it is for everyone else to block it.

Atarian,

ELI5 (because I signed up about an hour ago) - what’s wrong with the Exploding Heads instance? I thought about joining up because I suffer from Exploding Head Syndrome (really)

Quill7513,

Theyre basically the_Donald: fediverse edition. They troll, raid, and generally cause problems across the threadiverse in the name of promoting their authoritarian world view

imPastaSyndrome,

It’s not about that they are Christian fundamental fascists

hawkwind,

Join an instance that does not allow local communities. Then you can subscribe remotely to whatever you want and block whatever you don’t.

eating3645,

Even if these servers federate with exploding heads, the individual servers would still moderate content coming from exploding heads users on their servers, no? I agree that there are clearly a lot of shitty users there, but I have not seen a strong argument from you on how federating with them is a problem. Their content here is actively moderated.

I could very well be wrong, in which case I will eat my words, but it seems like a bit of an over reaction to me.

Just took a quick browse of their instance, eww...

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • lemmy@lemmy.ml
  • tacticalgear
  • DreamBathrooms
  • InstantRegret
  • magazineikmin
  • osvaldo12
  • Youngstown
  • ngwrru68w68
  • slotface
  • everett
  • rosin
  • thenastyranch
  • kavyap
  • GTA5RPClips
  • modclub
  • JUstTest
  • normalnudes
  • cubers
  • ethstaker
  • mdbf
  • Durango
  • khanakhh
  • tester
  • provamag3
  • cisconetworking
  • Leos
  • anitta
  • megavids
  • lostlight
  • All magazines
    •