Is queer an equivalent substitute for lgbtq(...)+?

Hello!

I am new here, and new to the LGBT community in general. Around 6-7 weeks ago I realized I was trans(htf do you make it to 30 and not realize?)

In talking to my therapist, they said they(belonging to the community themselves) like to use queer as shorthand since it includes everyone and isn’t an unending acronym that is constantly getting new letters. I also like that and would use it, but being new, I’m not sure how others who’ve been here longer feel.

Are they equivalent?

I don’t like how the acronym keeps changing and accidentally leaving out a letter could be taken as an intentional slight.

1rre,

It depends on where you’re from and more so what you feel.

If you feel it’s an equivalent substitute, then it is for you and whoever else feels that way.

Personally I was brought up in the UK where queer in reference to LBGT (either as an insult or not) is largely an American loanword and if you asked the majority of people to define it they’d give you something along the lines of nauseas/slightly unwell or peculiar. That said, there are many Brits who identify as queer which is just as fine as people who identify as gay, which can mean either a masculine homosexual or a catch all LGBT+ term in British English but AFAIK is pretty much exclusively the former in the US?

AlternateHuman02,

I think we should reclaim queer as a good catch all for everyone, though I personally like 🌈 Rainbow Mafia 🌈. I also like what CyberEgg pointed out with the term 'punk' starting off as a slur only to be owned by the group.

Zuberi,
@Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Rainbow Mafia sounds punk as fuck and I’m here for it

Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I like rainbow mafia 😂

I’m not sure if coined it or not, but I also like gender-spicy

mjsaber,
@mjsaber@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’m trans and work in Healthcare, and I often just queer as a catch all phrase instead of using the whole acronym. It’s easier to say and most queer folk are not offended by it.

That being said, I try to use the specific group names when I am personally talking to patients, as I think it’s empowering to hear them in a way that doesn’t assign normative value.

Transform2942,

Ally, not queer myself but I am continually disappointed “Gender, Sexual, and Romantic Minorities” (GSRM) has not caught on.

I think it

  • gets right to the heart of the issue
  • already communicates intersectionality
  • doesn’t require new letters to keep being added
Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I like it too, but I’m already seeing GSM & GSRM in this thread so, maybe we haven’t got all the letters on this one yet either 😂

But yeah it seems better in a lot of ways. Thanks ally!

kittykabal,

i think the issue with this is that it doesn't carry the broadness of 'queer.' it lists gender, sexuality, romantic minorities... and nothing else. there are things typically thought of as 'queer' that are not strictly one of those three things.

Transform2942,

I definitely think queer is the only choice for a single broad word meant to convey EVERYTHING, and it’s pretty much what we already all use when we don’t want to say deep breath LGBTQIA+

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t like being defined as inherently a minority, which means I’ll never use that term to self describe

sometimescarmen,

Echoing everyone else’s sentiment, queer is a fine catch all as long as you know your audience. Remember not only might it offend someone in the community who has had that word used against them, it might incite violence or retaliation from someone who is not supportive of the community and might hear you use that descriptor and feel it’s okay to pile on with more unkind language.

Personally, I like using it because I struggle with identifying which word best describes my sexuality, so I like being able to just say “I’m queer”. Admittedly, because of my environment, I sometimes over generalize and just say “I’m gay” when in fact bisexual or pansexual would be closer to accurate, because the people around me at least have an idea what “gay” means, but would not be open to learning more inclusive language.

Edit : I wanted to add a silly comparison. In the south, particularly among older folk, some people use the term “coke” to describe all carbonated beverages, where many would say “soda” or “pop”. An example I don’t hear as much anymore, but still enjoy, is :

Waiter : What can I get you to drink?

Customer : I’ll take a coke!

Waiter : What kind?

Customer : Ehhh, a Doctor Pepper, please.

Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I feel like I barely know what pansexual is, I totally get that others may not have heard about it at all. I’m still amazed how much struggle bi people face when gay has been more or less accepted or at least tolerated for a little bit.

As someone also from the south, I am very familiar with that exchange! I also don’t know how long it’s been since I’ve heard it

ImADifferentBird,

Yeah, I have to confess that I don’t fully understand the difference between bi and pan. I’ve had some people tell me that pan is simply a more inclusive way of saying the same thing, and others tell me that there are distinct differences in how the two approach their sexuality, so the whole thing just leaves me a bit confused.

sapient_cogbag,
@sapient_cogbag@infosec.pub avatar

The way I understand bi and pan is the following:

  • pansexual is attraction that is unaffected by the other person’s gender
  • bisexual is attraction to similar and different genders, but the attraction may be distinct (in terms of what is found attractive or the actual feeling of attraction) for different gender identities - and lots of bi people experience different amounts of attraction to different gendered people ^.^

    • An important note is that the bisexual community has not historically been, and mostly is not currently, exclusionary of trans and nonbinary folks.

      A lot of people (including me, as a trans-nonbinary demi-ish+sorta-bi/ace person, not gonna write a whole essay, I just say queer usually) dislike when people claim bisexuality is trans-exclusionary and/or nonbinary-exclusionary :/

These are of course personal labels, so some people use them differently and respecting people’s self labelling is important.

Some people use bi to mean attraction to people of any two gender identities, or two-or-more gender identities.

Pan probably has similar things but afaik it’s a less common label so I haven’t seen as much discussion on the different meanings people use, or maybe it’s less prone to that because the prefix “bi” means “two” which results in weird etymological nitpicking ;p

MountingSuspicion,

As someone who actively identifies as queer, I don’t like to use it for the community as a whole. Adding a + at the end of LGBT or LGBTQ is generally sufficient to get the point across that you’re not intentionally leaving people out, if that’s a concern you have, but I don’t think it’s ever been a real concern in good faith conversations. I’ve seen people try to popularize SGM for sexual and gender minorities. I like that better as a catchall, but I think it’s probably too late in the game to switch.

My experience with the trans community leads me to believe that there are some that don’t like the othering nature of using the word queer for them. I can see how using a word that basically means not normal for a community that’s still striving to be accepted is sometimes seen as counterproductive.

Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I do forget that people identify just as queer. I’ve been understanding it as they’re saying they’re different but not getting into specifics. I am not so familiar with GSM, but that does sound like a far better acronym.

I suspect the difficulty with queer could be regional depending on how prevalent or recently it was a slur.

I would be interested (if you don’t mind) in hearing more about what you mean when you identify as queer.

MountingSuspicion,

Always happy to talk about it with people in good faith!

You are partially correct in that I like it because it makes it clear I’m not het without getting into specifics, but I choose it over other similar descriptors for a few additional reasons. I know some people who identify as pansexual and though it’s completely valid to identify with that, I like that queer does not solely refer to sexuality. There are plenty of aromantic pansexuals and asexual people looking for relationships. Because queer doesn’t end in “sexual” I feel like it’s a more wholistic view of the relationship I’m seeking and allows me to discuss it without implying any explicitly sexual feelings. I’m not aro/ace but I feel like it gives people more room in that regard. Similarly, I like that it’s not as restrictive as bisexual, though bisexuals don’t necessarily endorse a gender binary. I like that’s it’s super inclusive, but still leaves me space I feel like pansexual does not reserve for me to find gender identities or expressions that I have a preference for or against. I also like that it gives me an immediate gauge on how people feel about the community as a whole. No true ally will go “well what does that even mean?! You’re all coming up with things just to confuse us” and some trans exclusive or nonbinary exclusive people will push back on it because “bisexual” should be sufficient or some nonsense like that. It allows people to ask questions if it’s relevant to them or they are interested, while still giving people that don’t care as much or might not be interested the general idea that I’m a member of the LGBT community and I’m open about that. I am in a long term monogamous relationship at the moment but this was all relevant when I was dating.

In a more practical sense, to me it means I’m interested in a variety of sexual and gender expressions and though I cannot definitively say I would like any and all combinations of them, I’m more than likely happy to engage if I like the person.

Pandoras_Can_Opener,
@Pandoras_Can_Opener@mander.xyz avatar

I also use queer. I’m agender, I don’t indentify with any gender and I’ve given up figuring out whether the term “trans” applies to me or not. But I’m queer. That’s nice and easy to use in conversation.

If it helps I also was firmly over 30 when I figured it out.

Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t fully know where I am atm but I’ve heard trans can be as broad as “not cis”, which does encapsulate me, so I (eventually) accepted it.

Pandoras_Can_Opener,
@Pandoras_Can_Opener@mander.xyz avatar

Yeah there’s certainly a lot of trans related things I discuss with my binary trans friend. Dysphoria most notably. But he wants to be seen as a gender that already exists (and is exposed to more danger for it) while I want to be seen as a category people don’t have in their minds at all which brings it’s own issues.

Figuring these kind of things out mid life certainly is a process isn’t it? I’m glad I also have younger cis friends who are just much more open to all sorts of queer identities. But it’s still hard for me the discuss at all IRL.

darkregn,

I pretty much use it as a replacement for LGBTQIA+, but keep in mind that not everyone may consider themselves queer; it /is/ a reclaimed word after all, so people may have trauma related to it.

Bougie_Birdie,
@Bougie_Birdie@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Where I grew up ‘queer’ was used as an insult. But I use ‘queer’ to self-identify, and like you say it’s a catch-all for everything under the umbrella.

Context matters, I think. If someone’s talking about the queer community, it seems okay. If someone says, “You’re one of them queers, aintcha?” then it’s probably not okay.

At the end of the day, I guess I’ve always thought of it as a slur that we’ve taken back, y’know?

Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I love that some groups have been able to do that! I know I’ve heard of others, but I can’t recall at the moment.

It really is brave for the first generation to do that. I can’t imagine.

LastYearsPumpkin,

Depending on the usage, yes.

Adding more and more letters isn’t just a problem for others, but as you carve GSM (gender and sexual minorities) into smaller and smaller buckets, then it becomes more obvious when one is excluded.

THAT being said, LGBTQ is sufficient for some people and not for others. Queer is often used in a derogatory way, and makes some people uncomfortable.

Language is tricky, and forcing a society to use specific words can also cause significant backlash. Should focus on fixing intent and not specific wording.

Lmaydev,

I always found LGBT to be pretty exclusionary personally.

I’d much prefer something like gender, sexually or romantically queer.

empireOfLove, (edited )

Sort of equivalent. “Queer” was once used as a sharp slur by many homophobes, but it’s been actively reclaimed by the community and used as a badge of honor instead to remove its power as a slur. Some older members may still take offense to it just because of the historical context that they lived through, but I imagine anyone of your age or younger has zero problem with the word and probably use it themselves.

In definition, “queer” is meant to describe someone deviating from the norm. As your therapist described, in this community its often used as a catch-all for people who don’t fit cleanly into the lesbian/gay/trans labeled bins. Its also frequently used when someone has more than one gender/sexuality identifications. But you’re welcome to use it with only just one.

Technically, the acronym “LGBTQ+” includes Queer in itself, as the Q. But we all know that acronym sucks to use in conversation a lot lol.

Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I definitely remember hearing my dad use it that way as a kid. Although, back then It was probably used for gay, I don’t know who else was really know about existing in the sticks in the 90s.

I have understood it to mean anything non-cis/het, which is at the very least what I know about myself. I suppose depending how the trans journey goes I may not be able to consider myself straight either 😂 that’d be a trip! That has been in my head when fantasizing about being brave or comfortable enough to know who I am and come out, “I used to think I was straight and cis, turns out, I’m neither 🤷‍♀️”

theangriestbird,

I have understood it to mean anything non-cis/het, which is at the very least what I know about myself.

you understand the broad value of using a single, all-encompassing word, then. You’re in good company - many queer folks find that it takes them years to really solidify their gender and sexuality after they come out for the first time, and even then there are always surprises about who you find yourself attracted to or what you feel comfortable wearing. drawing sharp boundaries isn’t productive when the boundaries are so fluid - for many, it makes more sense to just call yourself “queer” and define your gender and sexuality for yourself as you go.

Plus, I feel like we don’t even really have words for all the different ways that one can be attracted to other people, and so sometimes the long acronym feels like a limiting concept made up by straight people. Am I even allowed to feel a form of attraction or express a gender identity that isn’t one of the pre-existing letters in the acronym? If i’m sometimes attracted to androgynous people specifically with long legs and a short torso, are we going to add another letter to the acronym for that? Or can we just agree that it’s all part of the beautiful queer rainbow and move on?

Evergreen5970, (edited )

Huh, I’ve always thought “queer” encompasses both those who fit neatly into the gay, lesbian, bi, or trans bins as well as those who don’t. In other words, I thought it meant

a person who is at least one of:

  • not cisgender
  • not heterosexual
  • not heteroromantic

So basically the same as LGBTQ+ except that 1) it’s easier to say than LGBTQ+ and 2) it’s a reclaimed word that not all people in the community have reclaimed so it will make more of the people it describes uncomfortable than “LGBTQ+” will.

NateSwift,

It varies from person to person. I personally like queer because it’s super “catch all” and I’m always confused asf.

That being said if you present yourself as an LGBT positive person I don’t think you’ll run into any trouble with it. I haven’t at least

Blahaj_Blast,
@Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’m also confused af 🤣

I sure hope I come across positively!

I like the idea of getting pride flag stuff, but also a little afraid of willingly putting a target on myself as well.

crow,

It’s really a personal thing. Most everyone I know, myself included, use the term as a playful way to refer to the LGBTQ community. But some people will take offence, and I can’t blame them either.

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