According to Billet themselves, they heard nothing about compensation or payback until about 3 hours after the original GN video went live… Which Billet hadnt even replied to before Linus made his post saying they’ve already made the deal on compensation.
I mean, it sounds like this was known-ish and Billet had been reaching out to them repeatedly. It is not at all strange that a cock-up of this magnitude would have been solved some time in the two or three weeks since LTX.
Which is why it is even more wild that only the published video got LMG to respond to an industry contact asking for their shit back.
The thing is: You basically can’t. LMG is still a massive tech media outlet with insane reach. If you ignore them then you are actively hurting your company.
And that especially goes for the tiny outlets like Billet where they are already looking at low volume boutique products. I doubt anyone would have expected that LMG would have made what seems like a focused effort to fuck the company over at every step. But even if the outcome had been “Uhm… I guess it works? Not sure why you would want it, but it works” that is MASSIVE advertisement. And the various enthusiasts who do want a product like this will then know it exists and so forth.
People very much overestimate just how little power smaller companies have.
Because smaller youtubers have almost no reach. Especially because, Dipshit Tech Tips is right: This is not something that anyone should buy. But the custom loop community are delightful sickos who don’t let that stop them. But they are very much a small percentage of any audience.
Getting it to a specialized channel like jaystwocents would increase the number of eyes on it who might ACTUALLY buy one. But folk there likely also are already ride or die with EK or whichever company they like.
And what LMG did is pretty much unheard of. The usual response to this would be, even if it was a mediocre cooler, “In our testing, the thermals were in this range which is comparable to these other products. We would probably go with the AIO or even the stock cooler but, depending on your workload and aesthetics, this could be a good buy”. Rather than “We are too stupid to follow basic instructions, maliciously threw away the card they gave us, and are now going to shit on this company for weeks on end”.
And… the dirty open secret of water cooling is that even AIOs are probably overkill for most consumer builds. That is WHY outlets like j2c tend to do the complete torture tests and then talk about how no gaming workload will ever be anything like that.
I DO think outlets are going to be increasingly wary of working with LMG since one of their recurring bits is “Linus hates company X and rants about it for a month”. But the benefit of having Jake hold it up in front of a camera and maybe convince a few other people they should spend money are still probably going to be worth it.
Like, I am usually a strong supporter of Hanlon’s Razor. But one of the Billet folk must have shat in Linus’s cornflakes at some point. Because everything about this feels like a hit piece. They actively refused to use the GPU that was provided along with the block to test it. They actively butchered the install and compatibility. And then Linus spent multiple WAN shows blatantly shitting on the company. And when they finally were forced to send payment for the block they stole and sold: They didn’t even include the GPU.
The reality is that even if it WAS a mediocre cooler, it would likely perform better than most reasonably priced AIOs with halfway competent building. And from a quick glance: I still have no idea how you would properly install that. But it is a chunk of copper with pipes for liquid. As long as your radiator works, you are going to get REALLY good thermals on both the CPU and GPU.
You know what really sucks? Owning their stuff. I got the screwdriver (it’s pretty nice). I’m drinking from one of the water bottles right now (it’s also pretty nice).
How am I supposed to go on using that shit? I can’t do it in front of anyone who knows. “Oh you like that LTT stuff? You know what they did right?”
All that goodwill flushed because of ego. All that cost, sunk. And the worst part is that this discourages me from buying merch from anyone else again, lest I get burned again someday when it comes out they too are the opposite of the image they portray for money.
I guess there truly is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I’ve been eyeing their screwdriver for a while, but I don’t want to give Linus my money after seeing this… Wanna sell it to me? I don’t care if it has any minor damage from regular use.
Edit: After the whole Madison thing, it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth… Nevermind the screwdriver, I’ll just buy a megapro or something…
Unless you absolutely need a magnetized bit holder, the LTT screwdriver is literally a Megapro with “improved” bit storage in the base. And trust me, you don’t actually want a magnetized bit holder. Because that is how you get screws stuck inside. Ferrous screws are a lot less common once you get out of computers/“tech” and you can always get (or magnetize) bits easily.
Bit storage in the base is arguable but I’ve personally never found a need. Either I am powering through an ungodly amount of phillips heads or I am switching my bit so often that it is easier to just have a small baggy or 3d printed holder off to the side. Planning ahead for which bits I want in the handle and then replacing them that way is a lot more effort than grabbing a handful (or using the 3d printed holder) and swapping them that way.
The Project Farm video is ALWAYS referenced and… it is a really good video. That nerd doesn’t miss. But if you actually look at the criteria and how he weighted things, it is a weird hybrid “ratcheting screwdriver” and “automotive screwdriver, but not really” middle ground. And considering what the LMG fanbase has done to other youtubers who crossed Linus, I don’t blame him for skewing the conclusion. Because if you actually care about his videos, it doesn’t matter what his conclusions are. What matters are which tests matter to you and so forth.
Personally? I use an ifixit kit for computer and “tech” work. Build quality is solid, I should not need to tighten anything hard enough to need a strong shaft (hee hee) and a ratchet, and I prefer the mako (?) case since it comes with a cover that lets me organize screws. And for house work I literally use a cheap ass Kobalt that I have a love/hate relationship with. I might grab a wera or a megapro some day but… it isn’t a priority. Because if I am really dealing with THAT many screws? I get them started with my screwdriver and then grab the drill or impact driver to finish it off. That is why the vast majority of high end screwdrivers are geared more toward the automotive field where you can’t maneuver a big ass drill in. Versus assembling furniture or home repair where you very much CAN grab the drill and make your life so much better.
Since I don’t own a car or anything that requires high torque, I really don’t need an automotive grade screwdriver. I keep losing screws because the magnets are not strong enough in the bits I have. 90% of my screwdriver usage are PCs and other tech.
Nothing wrong with the megapro though… I might get that one, though I would prefer getting the strongest magnet I can get my hands on.
I bought a couple of hoodies from them on sale, so I'm in a similar situation. Luckily most of their merch is pretty stealthy so the only people who would recognise them are other ltt viewers. I just hope that Linus can get his head out of his ass and give a proper apology and make things right
Lmao. I keep forgetting they sell merch. I refuse to buy merch from those guys. They’ve come across like a bunch of Windows gamers who built a bunch of gaming PCs and then became self proclaimed tech experts and started a YouTube channel.
Yes, I know Linus worked at NCIX and has memorized a lot of product numbers, but that means nothing.
Where you see his true (lack) of expertise is in the storage server failure video and all the Linux stuff he did.
He got mad that Linux was outside of his Windows power-user comfort zone and crapped all over Linux to make himself feel better.
It doesn’t even matter. An auction is selling too, same thing. If I put my stuff on eBay and someone buys it I don’t say I “auctioned it off”, I say “I sold it to some guy on eBay”. It’s just fixed price vs a bidding, in the end a price gets reached and a transaction occurs.
Linus can’t seem to take the L and just digs the grave deeper. Unfortunately at this point LTT is too big to fail, but I hope it puts a dent in their numbers and makes them eat some humble pie. Maybe they can fix their internal issues then.
I mean I completely agree with you in that the semantic bullshit is bullshit, my point was that Linus wasn’t even correct in his attempt at BS because GN didn’t use the word “sold”. GN used the same word that Linus is attempting to say is totally different.
Linus's brain simply cannot accept he did something wrong, so the cognitive dissonance forces him to make these great leaps of logic. He could have ended everything with a simple "I'm sorry, we'll correct this" but his ego would never allow it.
I am glad I cherrypick carefully what to watch off of LMG’s channels. Usually it is just the 5 minute weekly news bits. I never trusted their channel for authentic information. GamersNexus, Hardware Unboxed, Phoronix, AnandTech and other dedicated testers are goats.
I generally take everything tech related with a healthy dose of skepticism. Even if the information is accurate, I want to do my own checking before I start using or endorsing a product. I work in tech, and generally I find myself often in a position where I’m suggesting or recommending hardware and/or software.
I’m definitely not going to take some half baked reporting from any one source and immediately start pushing it onto the people who depend on me to make well informed decisions. As is my job.
I watch LTT for entertainment, and at most discovery of new software and hardware.
Even what’s happening right now, it’s all very entertaining to me. What sucks is that I’m certain many people rely on LTT as a reliable source of information, the same way that the people I know rely on me for the same, and that’s a bit frightening, since the people who listen to the advice, and act without doing any other verification or investigation are potentially going to end up in situations where they’re calling someone like me to fix the problems… I don’t want to take those calls.
I make privacy guides that thousands of people use, and long writeups I write, and it refined me so much in articulating and conveying facts to people besides having the journalistic integrity that nobody really has these days. There have been people who have used libel and slander too, giving me a complete insight into what it means to do a journalist’s work over the course of years.
Mainstream sources, not just LTT, need double or triple checks before I can even think of testing something out, and then recommend to people. Same goes for whatever a bunch of basement “experts” claim, and I only trust when I can see the transparency and integrity with not a speck of dust on the expert’s testing methodologies, plus a solid record, plus a detachment from geopolitical nonsense. (The moment I see an expert whining about China or Russia, they drop lower than LTT for me.)
I understand. I have been tasked, at times, with writing fairly simple documents to guide co-workers to complete a task; bearing in mind that my coworkers, for all intents and purposes, are very smart, experienced, and otherwise knowledgeable people doing the same job I am (more or less). Most technical jobs essentially require, as an unwritten rule, a certain level on improvisation, and the ability to extrapolate information from an incomplete dataset.
However, I generally need to run through the process 2 or 3 times before I can complete the task of writing the docs for it, the first time, I go through and mostly figure it out, make some general notes on what I’m doing, so I can repeat the process myself… The second time, I’m generally collecting screen shots, and filling in any blanks in the process I may have glossed over in my notes from the first pass, then before I’m “ready to go to print” I’m re-reviewing the entirety of my new document in an editing mindset, rephrasing and clarifying things as best as I can; then I’ll usually follow my own document to make sure that if I only do the steps listed, the process will complete successfully.
At which point, I have a draft.
I then, usually, ask my least skilled coworker to give it a once over to see if it makes sense to them, and offer any constructive criticism that they may have, with a second (revised) draft going to another low-skill coworker for final “review”.
That’s 2-3 people examining the material before it ships, and I’ve personally gone over it two or three times to check spelling, grammar, accuracy, etc.
And that’s for an internal document about a process that 90% of my team can probably half-guess their way through, even if they’ve never touched the related thing before. It’s a certain level of consistency and accuracy and I won’t accept any less from myself. I want to ensure that if my document is given to a client, or Joe worker, they can complete it without issue down the line.
This is the level of integrity that I expect, both from myself and from any organization that I would trust to provide reliable information. The blunt fact is that LTT doesn’t seem to be even double checking their work at all, meanwhile I’m putting myself to the standard of double checking, and ensuring my information gets peer reviewed before going to “print” (so to speak).
Granted, most of the stuff I do is generally less complex, usually guides and instructions on fairly mediocre technical topics, not full reviews of embargoed devices using pre-release firmware and drivers, but still, the methodology for the consistency of the information should be there. As GN had clearly demonstrated, it is not. And that’s just regarding their technical inaccuracies. I’m not going to touch the issues surrounding transparency and decisions made at the highest levels, like the recently developed issue stemming from this regarding the handling of the prototype waterblock. For me, the most recent developments there are simply deeply disappointing, and demonstrative of the fact that they’re willing to state things as fact before things become fact.
I usually just watch them when I’m baked, it’s a great show for stoner’s who want to watch people dick around with technology and get nothing out of it.
I’ve never used them as a legit review channel, just dumb entertainment, like the real housewives show.
LTT has grown to the point they can not act as equal to any small time team or start up. Linus decision has consequence larger than he can afford by pretending "I'm just another tech youtuber". With 100+ employee, and far outsized influence in tech, LTT must be professional in their decisions.
If now was a time to bring in a full time CEO and relegate Linus into “creative director”, or whatever title he wants to give himself, now is that time.
GN has simply pulled back the curtain to show another corporation who put their bottom line before their viewers. And his response only shows this even further.
I can’t tell if this is a joke or not…but “that time” was a month and a half ago
On May 18, 2023, Sebastian announced that he would be stepping down as Chief Executive Officer and would be transitioning into a creative role, effective July 1, 2023. Terren Tong, previously an executive of Corsair Gaming and whom Sebastian worked under during his time at NCIX, was named to replace Sebastian as CEO
He already did step down as CEO. Which is funny, because there’s a clip of him from the GN video complaining about the lack of time to make content… my friend, you were the one who created this working environment.
I may just be emotionally distanced enough from the channel to feel this way but I feel like this just isn’t that big of a deal. At worst everything seems like negligence and/or incompetence and I don’t see his main audience caring unless they already have a few bones to pick with Linus personally like a lot of people in these comments seem to.
The cover up is worse than the crime. Being wrong like that is bad, but it’s fixable and understandable the way the company is growing. Selling the prototype is a huge deal, both ethically and for future collaborations. But his statement after the fact stopped me from re-subbing to Floatplane. The response pissed me off.
Occasional inaccuracies/mistakes are to be expected and are excusable; but a regular and consistent pattern of these mistakes bridges the gap to willful, almost intentional, negligence.
That is not ok. (and is a huge part of why I don’t regularly watch LTT anymore.)
LTT has chosen to focus on quantity instead of quality, so much so that the quality has slipped well below what many find useful/helpful. Having lots of content isn’t beneficial if none of that content holds any value so far fewer people want to watch it.
I think pretty much any creator can agree 1 banger video with 100m views is far better than producing 100videos each only getting 1m.
Put more effort into quality; then reaching that self-imposed weekly video count won’t be so important to the bottom line.
Money and fame went to linus’ head, didn’t think it would happen considering they preach to be transparent but here it is.
If only that bald guy at LTT would have kept his mouth shut about how their testing was better than GN/Hardware Unboxed, all this drama wouldn’t have blown up on ltt’s face LMFAO
I straight up had the shocked Pikachu face when he said that. Being someone with a background in chemistry, I love the level of care GN puts into their testing. To have an LTT employeee be so fucking brazen with how they shit on someone WHO DOES IT RIGHT made me unsub right then and there. Linus’ reaction only made me feel even more secure in my choice.
If only that bald guy at LTT would have kept his mouth shut
Do you happen to have a link to that video? I unsubbed from these clowns a long time ago, so I have no clue where I would even find it. I’m curious to see that clip now.
I know that it’s true and the guy did say that but this is never a good thing to say. Primary sources are best. I can’t find the origional video myself but it looks like some sort of labs tour
Linus has become time a big multi-millionaire media tycoon and acting as such. I really hope this takes a big chunk out his company’s bottom line (to have a learning effect), he has been getting high on success for far too long.
Now say it with me lads : “You Either Die A Hero Or Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain”
The way that he talked about spending 100, 200, 300, 400, even $500 of staff time on re-testing not being an option, when he rakes in THOUSANDS per video is pretty illustrative of where his head is at.
I was pretty excited when Linus announced that he was stepping aside, but he clearly still has way too much say on the direction of LMG and his motivations are entirely too obvious. Go away, Linus. We’ve had enough of you.
If I understood his position of the retesting properly, he was saying that the cost of the block, regardless of if it cooled well, was too much to be viable. Fine, you’d come to that same conclusion regardless, but you have to do the testing right and explain that. ALSO, its not even a final, or near final product, why are you giving it review already? And thats not even going into the auctioning of the item.
His position was essentially “it doesn’t matter that our review was completely invalid because the product is too expensive”. And he considers himself to have a serious review company.
People here acting surprised as Linus like hw didn’t do the same years ago with the crappy merchandise without warranties that he sold and double down about how everyone was wrong and he was right.
So incredibly disappointing, I thought Linus was smart, but instead of just owning up to his mistakes and making a proper apology, he just doubled down and dug his own grave even further. If he had just apologized and explained how he would do better and make things right, and how he would prevent these mistakes from happening again, I’m sure a lot of people would’ve gave him another chance, but he really showed him and his company’s true colors.
This is very sad to see, I was definitely a fan of LTT and enjoyed their videos, I watched and supported them for years, but now I’ll no longer be watching or trusting them after this. Its heartbreaking.
Yeah he really just needed take the L and say we’re taking measures to correct past mistakes (and having a new CEO will help). I think that would have been an easy reply to all of this.
I’ve only seen clips of it here and there, never fully watched or listened, but definitely seems pretty bad based on what I’m hearing…
Too bad he’s like this, honestly the guy’s definitely talented and makes good content (if he actually puts the work and proper time in), but seems he’s just way too arrogant to admit when he’s wrong. I just expected more honestly, just sad to see after being a viewer for this long, and always getting the impression that he was transparent and more down to earth, which now its evident the opposite is true.
The apparent transparency was something that stood out to me as a major respectable plus of the channel. These actions and responses are not at all in line with my understanding of the channel, and I’m mostly just sad. If I dont trust the content, I won’t watch. I just wish Linus in particular had stepped back to realize what he was throwing away.
This response has made me lose so much respect for LTT. Linus really needs to learn when to shut up and stop digging himself into these holes. He could have just apologized, compensated Billet properly and worked on fixing whatever communication issues his team has, but instead he wrote a long non-apology where he deflected blame, tripled down on the Billet situation and just straight up lied about compensating them. Very scummy behaviour from Linus.
While this definitely wasn’t an okay response, I still prefer this transparency over every single response having to go through a filter/PR representative. At least we are closer to knowing what he is actually thinking.
Is this the straw that leads to LTT going full corporate mode?
I am so sick of people using disabilities to deflect responsibility for shitty behavior.
So what if he has ADHD?
If that truly is the cause, he knows his disability and has a responsibility to make an effort to not let the effects of it have a negative impact on others.
Get off the internet if you use ADHD/autism as an excuse to be an intentional asshole. I have met pricks like you. Pricks like you should be disallowed from getting an internet connection until rehabilitation improves that behaviour.
So do I, and I find it insulting. Have I ever replied to someone with an emotionally driven impulse making things worse for myself? Absolutely, but that’s something I did when I was 18 or 19.
I’ve learned how not to be so reactive. If something really infuriates me, I give myself some time to connect my thoughts and reflect on the situation.
I’m almost the same age as Linus Sebastian (about a year and a half difference). He should have learned how to conduct himself a long time ago. Especially if he knows he has ADHD.
I have battled ADHD since second grade, been medicated and in therapy many times. I’m a successful chemical engineer now and I can promise you, that’s not an excuse for this behavior. I’m also by chance friends with multiple people with diagnosed ADHD, and not a single one of them acts this way when someone points out they are wrong.
So I’m not really fine with ADHD being used to explain shitty behavior. It’s not an excuse, ever
I’m not either for narcissistic behavior or ADHD being the cause.
I have several TBIs (traumatic brain induries) and I act like he does sometimes. Most of the time I can catch myself but everyone once in a while I’ll go into full “you’re all wrong, I’m right and stop hating on me” mode even when I am wrong. But I always admit I’m wrong afterwards.
It’s a maturity and, hate to say it, grace thing. Even when you mess up this bad, and then do it again, and then a third time, you have to step up and admit you made a mistake.
I have brain damage and I can do it. It’s just learning how to do it. Making that effort. I don’t think he knows how to do it or has never fucked up bad enough to want to learn how to admit to mistakes, or the reactions have never been negative enough for him to own up to it.
Either way - he messed up and should sit and think about it before doing anything else. He didn’t do that and it’s going to cost him. Maybe not a lot but something.
Could be. Just trying to empathize with it is all. I get making decisions on emotion and it biting you in the ass, I’m just wondering has he ever tried to learn from being bit.
Yeah, apologizing, paying Billet, and promising to slow down to improve quality would have been the perfect response. That would have been enough to keep me watching. But with the way he responded instead, I unsubbed and will avoid their videos, because he’s made it clear he can’t be trusted and doesn’t deserve my money.
And I was the perfect kind of viewer. I have money, have bought things from YouTube sponsorships, have Patreoned people, and I’ve actually been considering buying stuff from LTT’s store for a while (the only thing that stopped me was that their best shirts were sold out).
I suspect that for the most part, the kinds of people who would pay to support otherwise free content are those who are more informed and also care highly about the quality of what they pay for. The only reason I Patreon to stuff is because the creator has high quality and good ethics. I’m not gonna give money for no reason to someone who can’t be bothered to act ethically.
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