Currently, dual booting Fedora and Windows 11 on my Asus gaming laptop, and I love Fedora, but it’s still not full sailing. Every other boot the wifi card doesn’t register and I have to reboot, others the OS freezes even though Grub doesn’t but nothing actually opens or closes, and lastly if the laptop is on battery and goes into hibernation, waking it up takes around 5-10 minutes. To add that gaming is still not as smooth as it is with windows, and I still have a use for Windows pOS.
Yeah it depends a lot on the hardware. I have one laptop with Linux that is wonky sometimes because it has Nvidia graphics. But my stationary with amd is awesome, always works 100%.
Unfortunately, the drivers aren’t available as easily with other distros. The main issue is that my laptop is an ASUS laptop, awesome laptop most of the time, but it’s not easily supported by Linux
I’ve tried Fedora 3 times years apart in my life and never had a good experience. The longest time I used a distro was with Elementary OS and Zorin OS, the latter of which I’m currently on.
That isn’t a problem with Linux, as much as I hate it. It’s a problem with Asus, which I hate more. Asus is known for having many unfixable bugs on everything they have similar to these but even this isn’t as severe as most people get where their audio will go out for days on end.
Been running Linux as primary is for 10-15 years now, used to distro hop a lot, often just because. Life is too busy for that now but I last installed fedora (KDE, I always run KDE out of preference) about 5 years ago and I’m really impressed. The system is very current but its always remained stable for me and upgrading from version to version is smoother than normal security patches on win 10 which I still run for CAD.
Are you all up to date? Tbh I do agree with the other post, ASUS have terrible QA and don’t care.
there seems to be a problem either with your specific install or with the compatibility of fedora and your hardware. None of what you listed is expected normal behavior. Maybe try reinstalling fedora or another distro, best of luck :)
And then I have to install a windows vm to be able to play all my games properly. And the practical benefit of switching is basically zero for the normal user
I game on a linux mint desktop using proton all the time. The work they’ve done for the steam deck translates almost perfectly to every other Linux distro I’ve tried it on
I know many people here dont like to hear it but: I really dont care about linux. Never used it (except for school projects and once when i tried some stuff on a raspberry pi)
VM adds too much overhead for anything near modern, even if modern VM integration does add GPU drivers that act as a bridge for 3D acceleration. But SteamOS and Steamdeck are great examples of how far gaming has come in Linux, it’s no longer something just on the fringe.
I sort of do agree with your last comment. I tried to introduce several family members, and their take was basically that, why bother with something that seemed as unfamiliar as Linux for something they were already used to using. And if you try to use it at work, you are going to have to end up installing a Windows VM most of the time for most jobs. Monopolies be like that.
Okay then please give me a rundown of benefits I will get if I switch to linux. And how I will be able to play all my games without issues. And maybe i will think about switching. But as of now, i have to find even a single benefit i care about
Faster startup, faster start of games, software etc, YOU control the software not otherwise around, installing and removing software is 1 button click ( not 100000 clicking through yes i read tos that i will never read … ), installation of software is quick, modern Desktop Linux distros really do not require that many terminal usages, FULL customisation of your desktop, windows, easier custom with quick one click installation and one click removal of course ( because on windows they just throw another “Hey you wanna use our other stuff” and still need to click through 5 clicks just to remove it. ), You dont need a itchy tpm2 chick for your encryption of hardware and its not required for installing basicly the OS, you can pack your software into virtual environments ( Flatpack or similar ) so that some software, e.g. Chrome doesnt have FULL access to your pc that they REALLY do not need, switching OS from linux to another linux distro is super easy because of the easy installation of apps, extensions and all that can be saved to a file and just installed from another distro, you can choose what to upgrade ( no more FORCED windows updates or suprise updates ), sometimes you screw something up in your OS on windows you would HOPE there is something written on the internet, on linux you can just plug in your live boot linux distro USB stick and then you can fix directly what you or some application broke. ( never happened that my distro just “broke” ). On many distributions there is already integrated backups, that incrementally saves your data, the compatibility with everything is just great, even virtualisation of windows is better on linux then windows to linux, there is a lot of options for communicating between devices ( for example files ) and there isnt really a monopoly by one drive by microsoft, everything on linux is less “corporized” so less ads on your desktop, less bloatware, YOU own it, not the CEO of microsoft.
Of course i see you there already:
“BUT windows didnt do anything bad…”
They screwed windows users already BADLY, for example they “accidentally” install a HP driver software FORCED and without knowledge, they installed/recommend 3rd party apps/websites on a fresh install of windows, that should NOT be on a pc that YOU own and didnt wanted ads. The bloatware that comes with windows, for example one drive, edge and microsoft store its just slowing your pc down, and after few updates your rtx 4090 TI pc feels like GT 460 pc because everything needs to run in the background.
In summary:
YOU own and controll your pc with linux, less bloatware, more customisation and less corporation spam
Honestly, if all you’ve ever experienced in regards to terminals is windows CMD, then you really haven’t seen much. I mean that possitively. Actually, it will give you a far worse impression on what using a Linux / Unix terminal can be like (speaking as someone who spent what feel’s like years in terminals, of which the least amount in windows CMD).
I suggest to simply play around with a Linux terminal (e.g. install VirtualBox,.then use it to install e.g. Ubuntu, then follow some simple random “Linux terminal beginner tutorial” you can find online).
I found since people are used to app stores, I’ve had a much easier time convincing people to try out Linux. My mom even said that she always wished her windows PC had a proper app store.
I think it’s still important to explain the key difference between an “app store” and a package repository: the latter isn’t a “store” because everything is free.
Well hey, as long as these participating devs maintain that their software remains FOSS, I’d pay up. They do a lot of good work, can’t do it all for free.
I don’t think getting instagram, or photoshop off the microsoft store is giving anyone a virus. And I’ve never gotten a virus from it in the few times I’ve used it.
Yes, I read that. A couple thousand people out of billions of users were affected, and the problem was resolved. It’s really not as big of an issue as you’re making it out to be.
Of course, and much of it is on the app store now (which I rarely use myself), but for someone like OPs mom who just wants an easy app store, well there is one.
I installed Linux a few weeks ago and it was on Tuesday I wanted to add some programs I had installed (it was mGBA and melonDS) to my steam launcher, I went through the hassle of making a . desktop file for both of them (I was dumb and used a Ubuntu based distro, so it installed as a snap, which sucks hard on a hdd) and then it wouldn’t launch, I searched up again (I was using chatGPT for all of this, I asked it a lot how to do stuff, it’s like this was it’s purpose beacuse it always worked first try), did the chmod x+ command and then I was done
When I clicked on new app image, the OS told me, that program /name of app/ will be launched, I clicked "Continue" and it runs! No meddling with "chmod" or anything like that.
Same, I love AppImages for that. I just wish they also had way to contain configurations instead of putting it on the system. That would make it even more portable.
also for non-KDE, non-Gnome systems, there’s appimaged – requires a little more setup, but handles the set executable, automates the AppImage integration (.desktop files and menus), keeps a watch on specific folders for new AppImages, and provides a way to check for updates
I’m saving this. I don’t use any appimages (except a cracked Minecraft bedrock launcher but we dont talk about that one), but I’m still going to save this.
There is no install needed, you can just edit permissions and make the file executable and then when you open it or click it the app runs.
What won’t be created by default is an application menu to run it from whatever desktop environment you use. You can create those if you wish. You can create a launcher in the menu manually, or you can use a tool called AppImageLauncher to create these for you.
You can look up beer recipes and buy equipment and ingredients from it though. And use web based or spreadsheet calculators on it to do beer related calculations
That beer is also not free, but assuming you make beer for a long time the price per pint (half litre to split the difference between UK and US pints) tends toward about 20c (though highly hopped beers like hazy pale ale can get towards a dollar a pint) which is pretty cheap
But can it run proprietary software used in the industry? From Excel to Photoshop, if you are in a collaborative professional environment, you can’t run away from those, and don’t tell me you can use the alternatives in Linux, because no, you can’t. This is not linux fault, but it’s still an issue you can’t handwave.
I love linux, but you can’t expect people to adopt it just because it’s objectively better than windows.
You just gotta make an effort. The one who are too lazy will never be free of Microsoft’s clutches. Which probably just means pretty much everyone will stick to windows.
It depends on your industry. I’m in an agile development team, working in AWS in Java. I’m not a dev, so my work is in spreadsheets, word processor documents, web utilities like Azure Dev Ops
All that is platform independent, though we have to work on the organisation’s computers, so we work in the office on windows PCs or from home on whatever, remoted into a windows machine or VM
The devs work in VMs which are variously windows or GNU/Linux depending on what the person’s previous project was.
@desconectado@glibg10b Wine exists... And that's all I have to say. There is a good installer in lutris for creative cloud that works pretty good if you own it. And if you have a NVIDIA graphics card, it works even better, almost like on windows. It's not 1:1 but we're getting close. For excel you have wine again or a great free alternative is WPS or softmaker if you want to buy it.
I wish Wine worked well enough to use Excel. We are not talking about adding up numbers in a cell. Once you include macros, or a reference manager in Word, Wine is not good enough. The same can be said about propietary software, like autocad, or software used to control equipment. Also, good luck convincing a regular user to get familiar with wine.
WPS is great for simple files. Again, not good enough for complex files, especially if it is a corporate collaboration environment. I have lost count on the amount of ppt files that didn’t display well when it used WPS.
Every other year I try all the alternatives you mention, hoping they got better, and I always come back to use a dual boot or a virtual machine, which is not a thing your regular user wants to do.
Work use. The are hardware requirements (XRD machines, potentiostats, CNC machining) and software requirements (3D design). My workshop asks for files in Autodesk Inventor, if I send it in any other format, they just won’t fabricate my pieces, and I completely understand, who am I to change the workflow of a complete department just because I refuse to use Inventor (which is provided at work).
Meh I had a dual boot machine ages ago. Still here collecting dust. Basically I only switched to use the Linux for down time, movies, and study, most day to day tasks from engineering software to anything I considered important enough that you do not want the results hacked or broken I would use Windows.
I think of modern machines kind of like a hammer. These days almost nobody actually remembers the guy who made the first hammer, or who discovered fire, but there’s a price tag for the bow, the paper and the hammer, not so much the making of the hammer, because the actual skill involved or required to learn about it has become challenged if not cheapened to the degree that there are now multiple paths to obtain or create a hammer, yet the benchmark quality of the hammer as well as the process for creation itself as a whole is now more of an authority than the actual original statue or monolith of “hammer man” himself.
This is why I think the many flavours of Ubuntu including the many esoteric Linux distros are still interesting but still lack the diversity of use and specialization. The fact that whole blockchains are built for XYZ while sitting around pumped then dumped to trading at cents with no use goes to show how cloud computing systems and lower level computing is still very disconnected and becoming further thrown aside to uphold ponzi schemes.
I’ll give you an example, more money is wasted on onlyfans per year than for people trying to use system XYZ for solving problem A, or curing cancer. Consider that to be one of the “good” reasons many men and women are so misogynistic, even without looking down on sex workers.
Look. Everything is like a hammer, in terms of specialization. From Linux distros to gender roles, if you want to understand the world, just look at the hammer. We live in the Hammer Age. It is hammer time.
Microsoft has built a proprietary moat around their operating system. The reason why it’s hard to switch from Windows is by corporate design. A mix of early adoption, network effects, and just plain cold hard cash makes them dominate the operating system market. Of course it’s infeasible for your 60yo coworker to switch; but KDE presents an alternate reality, an opportunity, for people fed up with big tech’s bullshit. Yes, figure out how to run and use alternatives you fucking nut. Way to go disparaging countless volunteer hours spent on open source projects so that people like me can switch to linux.
Comments like these make me irrationally angry. Why complain about open source software and give bad PR? It’s open source; contribute.
Read my other replies. 1 and 2 don’t really work, the performance of using wine, or the alternatives, is just not there, if you do amateur work, maybe that’s fine, but for professional collaborative work, good luck using freecad instead of autocad.
Personally, I use 3 and 4, but you have to understand that the regular user is not going to go through that much hassle to set up a virtual machine.
I don’t think you understand how zealous C&C fans are. Some of us have entire XP machines with CRT monitors just to play the game in its purest form. We’re about as culty as Linux.
But it’s also not just one program, it’s all the c&c games, their map editors, mod loaders, and any modding tools. World builder is just an example.
You can already get it working under Linux, running a Windows VM. I remember doing that for Homeworld, it’s basically the emulator approach. A VM is ok if it isn’t too demanding graphically.
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux is in fact KDE/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, KDE plus Linux.
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Windows, is in fact, Adware/NT, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, Adware plus NT.
Haha (but in all seriousness, his lack of understanding of the issue was embarrassing, even if he did apologise afterwards; it’s like Ballmer: everyone remembers him saying “Linux is a cancer”, yet nobody remembers him apologising, when he saw Satya Nadella found a way to make money off Linux, rather than look for ways to tear it down as competition). In both cases these men saw that a change in their stance would allow them to achieve their goals (of promoting free software, and making money, respectively) much more easily).
So here you can see me behaving like the average Linux user, hating on Microsoft and being elitist about my distro, and I’m done ranting about M$.
hmm, looks like my link still works… clicking on any of those words should take them to the answer, which is a bit too involved for me to summarize :). if for some reason your client isn’t reading it, here’s the naked link:
Which is…still not an OS. It’s a distribution. Specifically, it’s a fork of Ubuntu. To reiterate what the OP was saying, they’re catering to the Windows audience, who understand the concept of a “new Windows version,” but who wouldn’t understand the concept of a distribution.
It’s actually not even a distro, according to their own description at least
Is it a distro?
Not quite, it’s a package archive with the latest KDE software on top of a stable base. While we have installable images, unlike full Linux distributions we’re only interested in KDE software.
They probably feel like the name distribution means more than just slapping a DE on it and basically a PPA. Then again, haven’t stopped loads of distros from doing that hah.
Could be another way to discourage people using it as a beginner distro or something.
What exactly is an OS to you? All distros are operating systems because they ship all the tools and utilities need for the system to function (on top of a package manager).
The fact that the KDE devs didn’t write that code themselves doesn’t disqualify it from being an OS.
An OS is the interface layer between hardware and software. It’s the first code that runs after the boot loader, and it exposes an API for syscalls that allow user processes to allocate typically restricted resources, while also tracking and maintaining those allocated resources, doing process scheduling, and a bunch of other critical tasks.
All distros are operating systems because they ship all the tools and utilities need for the system to function
All distros contain operating systems (or, more accurately, kernels), or, rather, are built on top of them. A distribution is a collection of curated software, along with an init system and, for linux, package manager, and, frequently, a particular desktop environment. These pieces of software are, on some level, superfluous. You can have an OS without them. They don’t comprise the OS as a distinct conceptual layer of a computer system, of which there is the hardware, operating system, application, and user layers. The operating system is just Linux - because that is the interface layer between the hardware and software.
Saying “all distros are operating systems” is like saying “all cars are engines.” It’s just wrong. And I don’t care what wikipedia has to say about it.
Neon is more of a testbed than a proper distro (they don’t actually even use that word).
Is this “the KDE distro”?
Nope. KDE believes it is important to work with many distributions, as each brings unique value and expertise for their respective users. This is one project out of hundreds from KDE.
Not quite, it’s a package archive with the latest KDE software on top of a stable base. While we have installable images, unlike full Linux distributions we’re only interested in KDE software.
I like the word, it fits well with biased which is approximately opposite
My least favourite new word is ‘doom scrolling’ which is now used to mean “scrolling internet feeds mindlessly” where it originally meant “constantly refreshing the internet feed in the hope the result of the American presidential election will change”
I’d be happy if it was used in another doomy context
Me still trying to figure out how to get it to auto start / auto login on boot on my fresh new Raspberry Pi 5 without locking up at a flashing cursor screen: 😩
Yeah, but that old technology is what still lets me run a 13 year old version of Adobe creative suite. If that ever changes I will have to learn something new!
This is kinda how I feel about Windows these days. It’s interface, directory structure, shudder the registry, user specific apps (from MS Store or Winget), buttons being inserted into the menu bars on some apps, but not others, button sizes being different sizes, some parts still using the Metro interface. The whole thing either needs a re-write, or should be dropped and something new to replace it. Don’t even get me started on things like the eventvwr hanging for 20 seconds after it opens, event tracer API, their in-house abandonment of powershell modules once powershell was open sourced, Windows containers being a disaster, etc.
There was a TCP/IP bug that shared it’s exploit on versions of windows from windows for workgroups 3.11 (which you ran from the DOS prompt by typing ‘win’) through to windows 7 (which was the new hotness at the time)
That’s a bug conserved from the very first Microsoft implementation of TCP/IP through to the state of the art at the time
People were surprised at the time that it wasn’t a windows NT bug
That’s surprising, as I think the first Windows TCP/IP stack was ported over from BSD by Spider Systems (pretty sure that’s why it still has things like “/etc/hosts” - albeit under System32). Wonder if the bug was in BSD and never backported (cross ported?).
The problem is that so much critical infrastructure around the world relies on ancient Windows software. I’m pretty sure their backwards compatibility is one of the reasons there’s so much inconsistency in Windows, and every iteration seems to just add more bloat on top.
They hired the man behind systemd (controversial, I know, but he does have a vision). I hope they listen to him and/or he starts directing how they should do things from the ground-up.
It’s a desktop environment for linux operating systems. Desktop environments pretty much dictate how a pc looks. KDE Plasma,Mate, Gnome, Cinnamon etc are some famous desktop environments
Oh sure, defending people who aren’t even willing to read the text of the post while also attacking the one who complains about that circumstance is better, right?
Well, although usually it’s a good idea to read the original post first, in this instance the original post is at best misleading because it refers to Plasma as an “operating system” rather than a desktop environment.
(Or for those who want to use even more precise terminology: its full name is either “Plasma Desktop” or “KDE Plasma Desktop”, because KDE also has some non-desktop environments such as Plasma Mobile and Plasma Bigscreen… none of which are as popular as Plasma Desktop, though, so usually Plasma Desktop is colloquially called just “Plasma”.)
I never said anything regarding the truth of the original posts claim; it’s just irritating when people start asking questions without even reading what was initially written.
Things are more interesting in the Linux world. Plasma is just a user interface, a desktop environment. The actual operating system is Linux. And we have so many choices for how we want our desktop environment on Linux, but Plasma is the most advanced one.
raises pendantic finger Ah-hem, sorry, but KDE Plasma isn’t an OS. It’s a desktop environment. For an OS bundled/built-around Plasma then Kubuntu or KDE Neon are both Linux distributions that would better fit that description.
KDE’s plasma centered Linux Operating system. So to not be overly pedantic, I stuck with what this lemmy post was about. I didn’t say the plasma desktop environment was an OS.
I said “a linux operating system made by the KDE team” in which the KDE team referenced their OS as Plasma in the Mastodon post, or “toot,” shown in this lemmy post.
Unlike Windows and MacOS, the Linux ecosystem is a lot more modular. For example, graphical user interfaces. There are a few types, ranging from ruthlessly simple tiling window managers to more complex desktop environments that more closely resemble the Windows or MacOS experience.
Linux users may take their pick between about a dozen desktop environments (DEs), including Gnome, Cinnamon, Mate, xfce and LXQT.
KDE (once standing for Kool Desktop Environment, now merely KDE) is a community/organization that produces open source software. They made Krita, a raster art program, KDENLIVE, a video editor, and many other such utilities. They also make the Plasma desktop environment, which is often referred to simply as “KDE” by distro maintainers. For example, you might download Fedora GNOME or Fedora KDE.
KDE Neon is an operating system maintained by KDE which features the Plasma desktop.
The kind of thing you interact outside of installed app/programs. Like the panels, window decorations (titles, close buttom, maximalize button), the way windows float and behave, system settings, etc.
Unix systems (like Linux) are very modular and you can install different desktop environments if you want. And even within those desktops are modules, like you can install different “start menu” or file manager on KDE Plasma.
Can I use MS Office natively with that? Also, can I use it as a non-techie lay man in a way that is similar to the way most office bottom-feeders use Windows?
I know there is Open Office but I am lawyer and the free office alternatives just don’t have the rich formatting options I need to do my job. I have tried and they just won’t do.
In my opinion, it stacks up VERY well, even better, except the toolbar is by-default a mess for some reason while there's a very easy option to set it to tabbed.
How does the UI size work out for you? I recently took a look at it on a windows pc and the tiny size of most things is the one problem I have with it. Then again, I read something about being able to scale different programs individually somewhere (not for windows though)
ToC via Styles formatting and Table of authorities - these are from the top of my head, which I remember not working properly with Open Office. They need to work when I do them and also should be displayed correctly when I receive them from colleagues in docx format.
Format painter, track changes, spell checker in two languages, intendation adjustments, page breaks, and paste as text - I use these like crazy but I don’t remember if they were OK in Open Office or not.
honestly Libreoffice is not on par with MS Office. I use MS at work and Linux at home and Libreoffice is great for general use, but it is very rough around the edges, and does not have all the capability that MS does. I wish it were not the case but lack of an excellent office suite is one weaknesses of Linux.
Not the full suite, natively. You can install it via PlayonLinux, which works well without fiddling, or you can use Office 365 on the web.
Also, can I use it as a non-techie lay man in a way that is similar to the way most office bottom-feeders use Windows?
Yes.
I know there is Open Office but I am lawyer and the free office alternatives just don’t have the rich formatting options I need to do my job. I have tried and they just won’t do.
Open Office is deprecated. You can use LibreOffice which is free. Or WPS Office or SoftMaker Office, which run on Linux and are 100% compatible with MS Office, but cost money.
Last I used it, it seemed to lack a lot of more advanced features. I think I especially stumbled over the bibliography, though I did not use any add-ons.
First of all, libre office is very competent but I understand that it’ll always be very behind whetever Microsoft decides to do next.
Office is available on all systems at office365.com if you must use Microsoft tools.
For the non-tech usage, very much yes. Most of the problems your hear about with linux stem from people trying to make it do stuff that you can’t dream of doing on windows because it will stop you. Simply installing a system and using it to browse the web, edit documents, maybe install a few popular programs like VLC or Discord is set-and forget. System installers have recently gotten much more noob-friendly as well, imo the debian and Pop!OS installers don’t really allow you to mess up. KDE is a good choice of DE, but you might be more confortable with others. Good news, you can decide later, as switching desktop Environments is easy and preserves your files.
Photoshop is now available in the browser. Just Excel (not always, sometimes LibreOffice Calc with VBA compatibility does the trick), the other Adobe Creative Cloud applications, and some other Windows-only software (for example I dual boot Windows, because of advanced game macros written in AHK that don’t work on Linux via wine or ahk_x11, and I have failed in porting or rewriting them (it’s too big of a task, there is a whole team behind the actual macro). So… still some reasoms to run Windows, but fhese reasons are decreasing.
You’re casually blowing off two of the main reasons why I still have to use Windows.
Is there a Linux alternative to Excel that will allow me to reliably write and execute VBA macros that I can then deploy to my windows using co-workers?
Is there a Linux alternative to Photoshop? Doesn’t even need to be the most current version. I’d be happy with something that is functionally comparable to Photoshop 7.
I’m not being glib with those questions either. It’s been probably ten years since I’ve really used Linux. If there are legitimate alternatives I’d absolutely give it another go.
I love KDE a lot but if I’m honest, I dislike that they posted that… That wasn’t kind of them and it was rude to Microsoft!!! I wouldn’t insult them (“ditch Windows for good”), well, Microsoft has been using and including Linux too!! So both should be fine and friends.
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