How many of you run a Linux phone (Pine64, Librem etc) as your daily driver?

I was going through Pine64’s page again after I found the latest KDE announcement. With that said, I seem to see a lot of issues with firmware on the Pine, whilst the Librem is just plain out of budget for me. Was interested in how many people here run a Linux mobile as a daily driver, and how has your experience been?

I’m considering purchasing the Pine but I’d like a better screen, more RAM and a better CPU. Don’t know if I should wait for a new model to be released (are they even planning to do that? Is the company active?). I will only really use it to browse the Web, and might even look to desolder a couple of parts that I know I won’t use.

Thanks.

Edit: I am willing to watch content and use banking apps from the browser. Do you think it’ll be fit for me?

Edit 2: overall, I am much saddened about the state of affairs regarding private computing on the go. I desperately hope that Linux on mobile takes off, even though its incubation looks disheartening at the moment. Thank you everyone for your comments.

tanakian,

for about one year i used exclusively motorola droid4 as mobile device. it runs maemo-leste: mobile linux distribution with nokia’s hildon desktop (revived maemo fremantle sources) on top of devuan linux.

i also myself maintain about ten packages in maemo-leshe repository.

but most of the people won’t use motorola droid 4 and maemo-leste.

they won’t tolerate small screen and they need their ‘apps’ for ‘banking’ or ‘twitter’ or whatever.

i do not use banking apps or twitter or reddit or instagram or whatever they use, so i don’t care.

i used pidgin on that device, even connected to ‘ms teams’ for work via pidgin.

worked more stabre than real ‘teams’ client, but of course pidgin is not the mosh usable app on a small screen.

today i use dino on it for e2e encrypted xmpp messaging. in devuan chimaera dino is old and buggy. well what can i do?

it is okay.

but how many people are ready to give up shiny androids or ioses for this cyberpunk device?

even camera doesn’t work on it.

well, it is normal for mobile linux distributions that camera doesn’t work ot most devices. if it works for photos then not for videos.

well i carry an old small point and shoot with me. i think though it is crappy it makes pdotos better than many phones do.

but i cannot recognize qrcodes with phone.

recently i am trying to use pinephone.

it is more powerful and it has more recent software in postmarketos. my environment is sxmo. it is hde best phone environment ever created, i think. but how many people will agree with me? even pinephone users prefer phosh or kde plasma or something more fancy.

‘’‘’‘’‘’'what i do with pinephone?

first of all i charge it always. it is like tamagocci, if you don’t feed it it will die. so i carry a power bank with me.

it runs about six hours if i dont touch it (without suspend) and about two hours if i run dino.

in best case, if dino won’t make the device unresponsive.

i have an open source program called songrec on it, it can use shazam api and it recognizes music played around. it is a very useful app. and it is adaptive, works in both portrait and landsgape modes.

what else do i do with it? well, browse the web sometimes. but it is often a torture. and i wondur why dont i just do the same on laptop.

yeah and podcasts with gpodder-adaptive.

and radio with shortwave.

i know why i do this: i want to use mostly libre software so i am ready for inconveniences. but not many people are ready to this.

for many years i used sailfish. it is very polished. i would recommend it to ‘regular people’ instead of android.

but i do not like that it doesn’t run on mainline on most devices, so proprietary linux kernel is necessary, the ui framework isn’t libre so we cannot use an app we used to on other platform most of the time. so u r getting locked to sailfish. it is hard to leave it because u cannot take your apps with you. in order to port apps written with their silica classes one needs to rewrite the ui completely.

so i am a person who only used linux phones for years asd i know it is not easy foc regular people.

for me it is ok. i do not need much more than sxmo as environment. i only wish pinephone to not hang as often because of dino. (:

tanakian,

for about one year i used exclusively motorola droid4 as mobile device. it runs maemo-leste: mobile linux distribution with nokia’s hildon desktop (revived maemo fremantle sources) on top of devuan linux.

i also myself maintain about ten packages in maemo-leshe repository.

but most of the people won’t use motorola droid 4 and maemo-leste.

they won’t tolerate small screen and they need their ‘apps’ for ‘banking’ or ‘twitter’ or whatever.

i do not use banking apps or twitter or reddit or instagram or whatever they use, so i don’t care.

i used pidgin on that device, even connected to ‘ms teams’ for work via pidgin.

worked more stabre than real ‘teams’ client, but of course pidgin is not the mosh usable app on a small screen.

today i use dino on it for e2e encrypted xmpp messaging. in devuan chimaera dino is old and buggy. well what can i do?

it is okay.

but how many people are ready to give up shiny androids or ioses for this cyberpunk device?

even camera doesn’t work on it.

well, it is normal for mobile linux distributions that camera doesn’t work ot most devices. if it works for photos then not for videos.

well i carry an old small point and shoot with me. i think though it is crappy it makes pdotos better than many phones do.

but i cannot recognize qrcodes with phone.

recently i am trying to use pinephone.

it is more powerful and it has more recent software in postmarketos. my environment is sxmo. it is hde best phone environment ever created, i think. but how many people will agree with me? even pinephone users prefer phosh or kde plasma or something more fancy.

what i do with pinephone?

first of all i charge it always. it is like tamagocci, if you don’t feed it it will die. so i carry a power bank with me.

it runs about six hours if i dont touch it (without suspend) and about two hours if i run dino.

in best case, if dino won’t make the device unresponsive.

i have an open source program called songrec on it, it can use shazam api and it recognizes music played around. it is a very useful app. and it is adaptive, works in both portrait and landsgape modes.

what else do i do with it? well, browse the web sometimes. but it is often a torture. and i wondur why dont i just do the same on laptop.

yeah and podcasts with gpodder-adaptive.

and radio with shortwave.

i know why i do this: i want to use mostly libre software so i am ready for inconveniences. but not many people are ready to this.

for many years i used sailfish. it is very polished. i would recommend it to ‘regular people’ instead of android.

but i do not like that it doesn’t run on mainline on most devices, so proprietary linux kernel is necessary, the ui framework isn’t libre so we cannot use an app we used to on other platform most of the time. so u r getting locked to sailfish. it is hard to leave it because u cannot take your apps with you. in order to port apps written with their silica classes one needs to rewrite the ui completely.

so i am a person who only used linux phones for years asd i know it is not easy foc regular people.

for me it is ok. i do not need much more than sxmo as environment. i only wish pinephone to not hang as often because of dino. (:

pathief,
@pathief@lemmy.world avatar

I’d love to run a system without Google but it’s hard. I tried to run LineageOS with microg for a week or two but eventually had to install Google Play Services. Lots of hurdles with push notifications and unfortunately some apps really refused to work when they detected no play services installed. It really sadden me, to be honest. Really wanted to make it work.

Never gave Linux phones a chance, I rely too much on apps that wouldn’t be available.

electro1,
@electro1@infosec.pub avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    pathief,
    @pathief@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, that is correct.

    electro1,
    @electro1@infosec.pub avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    pathief,
    @pathief@lemmy.world avatar

    I think the apps would work without Google Play services but they refuse to boot without it. Unfortunately since these are banking and finance apps the only alternative is not to use them.

    I own a Poco F2 Pro, ROM support is somewhat limited. CalyxOS is insupported, it seems. When this phones starts dying I’ll probably give GrapheneOS a shot!

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    I’m interested in the problems you faced. I have realised that I will need GMS/MicroG for maps, and am unclear if I can get a FOSS app to host my local mail inbox without GMS. Other than that, everything else can be done in the browser (technically even maps can be used in the browser but I digress).

    Would like to know which services prevent you from leaving Google

    pathief, (edited )
    @pathief@lemmy.world avatar

    My first attempt was to flash the stock LineageOS and then install the microg packages from the fdroid store. I didn’t manage to get that fully working, the microg self-check would have a lot of fails due to version mismatches. I never figured out why. A lot of applications complained about the lack of play services and warned me they wouldn’t work, microg was clearly not installed properly.

    Then, I flashed the “LineageOS for MicroG” ROM, which is a LineageOS fork with microg already installed. I had to enable all microg services but the self-check was 100% successful out of the box. No warnings about the lack of play services, everything was mostly working. I installed all software from Fdroid when possible and Aurora Store when not possible.

    Push notifications were a bit of a struggle at first but they did work. I still didn’t get notifications to work on Telegram, but “Telegram FOSS” fork seemed to work okay. For GPS/Maps I used Waze (which is technically owned by Google) and it worked flawlessly. I assume you can use other GPS application, I just didn’t do my research on this one. For email I am using Proton Mail, which worked as expected.

    The problematic apps were banking/financial apps, which I guess most people can live without. I’m confident the apps would work with microg but simply refused to even start. In Portugal our interbank network developed an application called “MBWAY”, which is really ingrained in the portuguese population. Most people use it. It has a ton of cool functiontionality such as sending money to other people just by using the phone number (instantly and without fees), replacing your ATM/food cards for payments and generating virtual credit cards for online shopping.

    I use MBWAY way too much (pun intended), and just decided I didn’t want to live without it. I ended up flashing stock LineageOS and their GAPPS package, which contains the play services and play store app. I still install most stuff from the Aurora and Fdroid store. The banking/financial apps are now working.

    Nisaea,
    @Nisaea@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Never had such a problem with /e/ just with LineageOS, highly recommend!

    GustavoM,
    @GustavoM@lemmy.world avatar

    Does a single board computer counts as a phone? Then a Orange pi zero 3. (Not like theres anything else to do other than read/lurk online communities, code and the occasional cloud gaming nowadays, so eh.)

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    I completely agree with your statement (that’s how my day goes too), but I wanted a mobile device. Thanks

    v81,

    Can it make phone calls?

    spacemanspiffy,

    Been using a Librem 5 since May, and am typing this on it now. I love it.

    Hiro8811,

    Why not try lineageo OS? I’ve been daily driving it for one year now and it’s reliably if you don’t throw magisk modules at it for fun.

    s38b35M5,
    @s38b35M5@lemmy.world avatar

    I second the recommendation for lineage OS. I’ve been using it since 2011 with my Nexus S (when it was Cyanogen). Works, defaults to de-googled, but easy to install gapps at the same time (follow instructions because it needs to be done before first boot).

    I’ll never run a stock ROM again if I can help it, and so far…

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    Which recent devices other than the Pixels are supported?

    Hiro8811,

    A lot? They have a pretty big list and for all I know all are stable. wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

    chitak166,

    So fucking dumb how we have to look for specific models just to get support for smartphones.

    Can you image if Linux only ran on HP and dell laptops?

    Hiro8811,

    Unfortunately that’s moistly on maufacters. If they don’t release the kernel LOS can’t do anything. Also depending on the phone it might take a while till someone picks the phone and decides to support it. Laptops do have compatibility options. But I get what your saying, it is annoying but what did you expect from such organization?

    EddoWagt,

    It would be awesome if we could just install whatever like we can on pcs. On phones you still need a developer to make a specific rom for that device, we were close with Generic System Images (GSIs), but I don’t think they really went anywhere

    Hiro8811,

    I think you can but I’m not sure. There’s Ubuntu Touch that works on some phones but it’s really buggy

    bitwolf,

    Hopefully when RISCv gets there it won’t be so bad.

    Now that manufacturers are getting called out for it they tend to follow the support cycle upstream. Now, much of it falls on the chip makers, Qualcomm specifically supports chips for 5 years iirc (and 8 years for their industrial chips).

    If the manufacturers can achieve vertical integration, like Apple has, with RISCv I think we’ll see a lot more mainlined support from them.

    unionagainstdhmo,
    @unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

    It’s just the shit design of Android: no bios and firmware must be bundled in the rom

    electro1,
    @electro1@infosec.pub avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Hiro8811,

    No. To root you need to extract boot.img, patch it in the app then flash it while in bootloader.

    ultra,

    I threw magisk modules at it for fun and it’s still reliable.

    Hiro8811,

    If you have bootlop saver you can throw whatever. I have like six of them

    ultra,

    I don’t have it, thanks for telling me about it

    Hiro8811,

    No problems. It’ll automatically disable all scripts so youll have to manually enable them in case of bootfail.

    ultra,

    Doesn’t safe mode do that as well?

    Hiro8811,

    As far as I know no. You probably could use adb to remove the scripts tho

    helenslunch,

    We can’t even get widespread adoption on workstations, what are the chances we’ll ever get them on mobile?

    It’s all the same problems. There aren’t nearly enough people using it for developers to spend their time developing compatible versions of their software, much less ones with a mobile-friendly interface.

    Maybe they’ll work with PWAs but those still suck.

    cows_are_underrated,

    There’s a simple reason to change that: use it. Recommend it to your friends. And yet there are great Linux mobile OSes(as example Graphen OS.

    helenslunch,

    I couldn’t possibly recommend it to anyone who is not a programmer. It doesn’t work for shit. The simplest and most basic things like just installing software is nigh-impossible for normies.

    EddoWagt,

    Graphene OS isn’t anymore Linux than any other Android rom

    andreluis034,

    What exactly are you looking for? Android IS Linux, do you want to try a different “distribution” just for fun?

    YourMomsTrashman,
    @YourMomsTrashman@lemmy.world avatar

    I own a Samsung phone running Android ‘UI One’. I’d argue it’s more agressively proprietary than something like Windows is.

    andreluis034,

    Wouldn’t unlocking the bootloader and installing a custom ROM be easier, more stable and cheaper than buying a niche product that’s unlikely to work properly?

    scoobford,

    It is, but android Roms with good privacy features are relatively few and far between.

    Pantherina,

    Me, GrapheneOS!

    No jokes, I found a Oneplus 3 with broken Display, will fix that and try some distros. But the choices all seem pretty bad tbh, I would like Fedora Silverblue but I guess that doesnt exist… yet.

    Maybe I will try to create a custom Ublue image?

    Spectacle8011,
    @Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space avatar

    I have a lot to say about the Pinephone, but in the interest of not re-iterating what has been said before, I’ll just say this:

    Correctly inserting the SIM card was the most harrowing experience I’ve ever had with a phone.

    Psyklax,

    My problem with linux phones was the hardware. Either far too expensive or too cheap and slow. And the cellular radio is ABSOLUTELY PROPRIETARY.

    I would get one at a $300 price point with 12 hour battery life that can play HD video without hiccups. Also would be nice to have open source baseband drivers in it.

    I’ve got really low standards that haven’t been met.

    Evil_Shrubbery,

    Yeah, this.

    Last legit fairly open sauce was N900.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    Exactly. It is infuriating that such hardware is so expensive and/or incapable

    xarexyouxmadx,

    I looked into this for myself but I was told a lot of what has already been said here and decided to go with a pixel + graphene OS .

    I’m probably sticking with this type of setup until there’s a proper Linux phone that can be easily used as a daily driver.

    I think the key is patience. One day I think we’ll have something that will be able to daily drive Linux that won’t feel like you’re using the alpha release of android.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    Quite unfortunate that we can’t escape the corporate grasp for our mobile operating systems

    Pantherina,

    I mean GrapheneOS is probably the most secure OS on the planet and also privacy friendly. Android is annoying sometimes but its pretty okay and the security standards are veeery high

    xarexyouxmadx,

    True. That’s why I chose graphene in the end. Ib liked the idea of the multiple user profiles to sandbox certain activities to a disposable profile and the fact that if I need Google play I can sandbox that as well by running it as a regular system app on it’s own profile…

    So far it’s been pretty good. I think my only complaint is I can’t get my Chromecast devices to connect. I got my Google TV to connect but all Chromecast devices refuse to pair for some reason but that pales in comparison to the headaches I’d get trying to daily drive a Linux phone. But I’m big on Linux (I use it as a daily driver on my computer) so I’m patiently waiting for a daily driver worthy Linux phone. 🤞

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    I like Graphene, I don’t like how expensive the Pixels are

    xarexyouxmadx,

    If you want to save money on a pixel I’d recommend taking a look at swappa(dot)com Even if you don’t want a used one they do have people selling pixels new sealed in the box for usually pretty good deals. I think the cheapest new in box option is a pixel 6a. Or 6 pro.

    You can also find new pixel 7, 7 pro, the 8 and the 8 pro.

    I’ve been buying and selling devices there for years and never had a problem as a buyer or a seller.

    Pantherina,

    Things are going in the right directions, somewhere.

    • immutable Systems
    • security optimized, permission models etc
    • TPM encryption
    • HEADS Bios with hardware key as storage

    But its far from the security of a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS.

    themelm,

    Graphene also is way easier to use their google play sandbox then messing around with microg and shit on lineage. I’d love to see the sandbox stuff ported to lineage or similar but I imagine its pretty baked into graphene. Since I care a little about privacy but also just want my phone to be rooted so I can do whatever I want with it. Oh well maybe someday.

    Pantherina,

    You can root GrapheneOS, no problem. Its just not as secure anymore and the bootloader cant be locked, banking apps will not work anymore, Android Attestation, Safetynet etc

    Pantherina,

    You can root GrapheneOS, no problem. Its just not as secure anymore and the bootloader cant be locked, banking apps will not work anymore, Android Attestation, Safetynet etc

    banazir,
    @banazir@lemmy.ml avatar

    I have a Mobian community edition PinePhone with postmarketOS and it is my daily driver. It suits my humble needs, but these few years have been a mixed bag. Especially with Mobian I’ve had periods of it working great, punctuated by periods with annoying issues. I stopped using the phone for a while when it suddenly stopped taking calls but I didn’t notice since there was no indication of trouble. My family reported me missing when they couldn’t reach me after a few days. Luckily that was then sorted out, but it wasn’t great. This hasn’t happened since.

    postmarketOS has been pretty solid and seems to perform better than Mobian.

    After a few years I’m starting to think I need a new battery, but the official store has been out of stock for a while. I’m not sure if they will ever get more parts. Communication from Pine64 has also slowed down to a crawl, which is not great. At least their official monthly blog was last updated in august. At the moment I’m somewhat skeptical of their future. We’ll see.

    Be warned though: the PinePhone can browse the web and banking probably works, but watching, say, youtube is not going to be a great experience. You’re probably better off using alternative solutions like Pipeline. The PinePhone is not a powerful machine and you will have tinker every now and then.

    Having said all that, if you set your expectations correctly you can probably get along with a PinePhone as your daily driver. I’m not sure if I can recommend it because there are many caveats, but in the end you know your needs and what you’re comfortable with better than I do. I like my PinePhone and I surely wish more people get Linux phones and that the ecosystem evolves.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    I could not find an official support branch of postmarketOS for the PPP.

    Other than that, as you say, Pine64’s interaction has waned greatly and I wonder what is going on behind the scenes. This is no FP5, certainly, but availability of parts is a requirement for me

    rufus,

    Forget the pinephone as a daily driver. It is nice to play around with and having linux on your phone is awesome. But you can’t really use it as a daily driver. You’ll try it and it’s going to end up in the drawer of unfinished projects. Trust me, I own a pinephone and I know other people who do.

    There’s nothing wrong with it. Just like 50 mild annoyances with anything you’re trying to do with it and on top it’s super slow, compared to any other smartphone.

    As I read, the phone by Purism isn’t much better and it’s really expensive.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    So I’ve heard. Quite unfortunate

    rufus,

    Yeah, I think so, too. It doesn’t have to be this way. I mean this is mainly due to the way ARM hardware works, lack of good drivers, maintenance and dedication by the manufacturers of that hardware. And everything is quite fragmented. In theory we could have a hardware platform that has good open-source drivers and is well-supported. The Pinephone was an attempt to establish one platform that people could focus on. But it has quite some limitations and also hardware/design issues.

    And Linux isn’t quite there yet. I mean I love Linux and it can run on embedded devices very well. But things like connected standby (for example receiving chat messages while the hardware sleeps and saves power) just isn’t implemented in a desktop environment that was made for computers. And also not in a chat application that was made for computers. So, set aside the hardware and driver issues, we have another issue with Linux software that wasn’t made to run on smartphones.

    There is a way around that and that is to add those capabilities to the Linux kernel. And also give applications means to stay connected in the background, adapt to different screen sizes, rotate the screen and evict themselves from RAM. It’s kind of what Android is. It builds upon the Linux kernel and adds lots of stuff that is specifically useful on smartphones.

    I hope someday some of those techniques get adopted into the mainline Linux kernel and also the frameworks the desktop software uses.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    I hope so too. I wouldn’t be as mad if Android was open and we could put it on different devices, but we can’t. Manufacturers lock their devices in so many ways.

    Thanks for your great reply

    ricdeh,
    @ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

    The problem is not Android. It is as open as any other Linux distribution. The problem is that manufacturers make the drivers for their hardware proprietary.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    Yes

    rufus,

    Thank you. I completely agree. We can’t do stuff ourselves, my Pixel 4a is End of Life now and all the proprietary parts of the system won’t be updated anymore, which is a shame because the hardware is still perfectly fine.

    And I hate the business decisions Google makes. Android is built upon Linux and the core is supposed to be free software. But then they move more and more stuff into their proprietary Google services packages. Like the proper keyboard with swipe typing, the better calendar app, text to speech, push notifications and all of the payment stuff. I personally replaced everything on the phone with a custom ROM, and did not install the google services. But I had to find alternatives to all of that and some things really don’t work as well. It’s a hassle and some things just don’t work at all. Like some stuff that requires in-app payment. I don’t care too much, because I get most of my Apps from F-Droid anyways and they’re open-source. But I can’t pay with my phone in the supermarket, can’t rent those silly electric scooters and a few other things.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    I tend to use my credit card for most of my purchases, online or in-person. In doing so, I haven’t come across the problem of payments you describe, although I’m unaware if the apps I use utilise Google’s API in the back-end to do this (for example, does the Amazon app use some Android API to process my payment using a credit card?).

    I think I’d be fine without most Google apps except for Maps, where OpenStreetMap has not served me well so fat (unfortunate, since I would like to use it but it is not as reliable in my experience). I can do my banking in the browser, and consume my video content (YouTube/Peertube/LBRY) in the browser anyway.

    I’m going to revisit the Murena mobiles again, and I’ll reiterate how disappointed I am that the FP5 is not available in the US. At this point, I’ll pin my hopes on KernelSU for the next few years (hoping I don’t have to compile my own kernel, I’d like to get a cheap device running the 5.10 kernel or those after it), but consumer devices don’t have hardware killswitches or privacy features or replaceable parts either (and iFixit doesn’t cover every device).

    This was a long comment, and I appreciate this discourse with you. Thanks again.

    rufus,

    I’m always happy to talk to people ;-)

    Yeah, paying with credit card also works for me. And I use the browser a lot for stuff like that. Just the added layers in the apps sometimes don’t work. Like when I tried riding one of those electric scooters. I was able to put in my credit card details and they got accepted, and I know my phone is capable of doing NFC, but somehow there is something else in that app that prevents me from doing the actual transaction and rent the scooter. Online-shopping and things like that work fine. I don’t need an App to use Amazon or PayPal… So I wouldn’t know either.

    Thx. I’m going to look up the de-googled phones you mentioned. I think I will try to use my Pixel as long as it works, but in theory it isn’t supported anymore and I’m supposed to buy a new one now. At least that’s what Google and GrapheneOS tell me.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    I’m holding out hope for KernelSU, in which case I won’t need to care about custom ROMs and things like safetyNET either. A root from kernel-space + a custom launcher and I won’t miss OEM android at all. The only thing I haven’t figured out is patch management, but I’ll leave that to people more intelligent than me

    Spectacle8011,
    @Spectacle8011@lemmy.comfysnug.space avatar

    You’ll try it and it’s going to end up in the drawer of unfinished projects.

    Guilty as charged.

    treadful,
    @treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

    Would love to. Seems like the only real option is the Purism phone but I was burned pretty hard by one of their laptops. Don’t want to roll the dice.

    MigratingtoLemmy,

    Too expensive for me. Not considering

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