meanwhileongrad

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MetalJewSolid, in Tankies encouraging violence against civilians

Tankies are just awful contrarians at heart. Hate em all.

goat, in Tankies unironically consider Fascists the same as Liberals and Progressives

i wonder what country it was that wanted to share the invasion of poland. hm

Ashyr, in Lead Lemmy Developer, Dessalines, denying the Tiananmen Square Massacre and praising the Uyghur Genocide

This is a factor in why I really want kbin/mbin to succeed. I also think it has the potential to be the better platform, but only time will tell.

spaduf,

Wouldn’t a fork be easier? I have high hopes for mbin but I really can’t understand why Lemmy hasn’t been forked yet.

sugar_in_your_tea,

I think both kinda suck, so I’m making my own that’s completely distributed instead of federated. That way hosting costs are near zero (just need some P2P nodes and a download server) and scaling to higher user counts should be automatic if I build it right.

The problem is that building it right is hard, and I don’t have a ton of time.

Natanael,

You mean scuttlebutt? Or something with content addressing like a fork of bluesky?

sugar_in_your_tea,

Content addressing. I’m using Iroh.

PutangInaMo,

You got more details? Is it up on github?

sugar_in_your_tea,

Not yet, but I’ll definitely post something when I get to a point where I’m ready to share the code. I definitely want it to be open source, I just want enough functionality there so the long term vision is clear.

But here’s some details of what I’m trying to achieve:

  • web of trust-based moderation - no “mods,” only metadata from people you trust (upvotes, downvotes, blocks, etc)
  • all storage on devices of users of the service - the more storage you provide, the better your experience; your preferred communities have first priority, but everyone stores something random from the service
  • text posts only, at least to start - images/videos need to be hosted elsewhere

I’m building it initially as a desktop app, but I’ll port it later to mobile and maybe web (still trying to figure out how web would work; maybe some notion of instances?).

I’m hoping to bridge to lemmy with an ActivityPub service to get content, but I’m not working on that until the above is ready.

PutangInaMo,

Web of trust sounds interesting. What language(s) are you using to build it?

sugar_in_your_tea,

Rust on backend, React frontend.

PutangInaMo,

Sounds efficient. Lmk if/ when you make the repo public.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Sure thing. I’ll probably make a post about it once I nail down the functionality and start looking for people to help out with UX and features and whatnot.

ThePinkUnicorn,

This sounds interesting, but how do you plan on stopping illegal content being stored on users devices? If there is any chance a user could unknowingly be hosting illegal content that could lead to some very big issues.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Still working on that, but I have some ideas:

  • text only - images, videos, and other binary content must be stored elsewhere (could still have links though)
  • data is stored encrypted (user option) - wouldn’t show up in scans
  • clear separation between “stuff I’m interested in” and “random stuff I’m hosting for the network” - plausible deniability
  • perhaps an option to opt out of random data storage - you’d still store stuff you’re interested in

But yeah, that’s a huge part of why I’m unwilling to share the code until I’m comfortable with the moderation engine. I think there’s an opportunity to use that moderation engine to reduce storage of CSAM (i.e. don’t store data from blocked users).

mindbleach, in Lemmygrad tankies react very sanely to Lemmy.world's defederation

we are one of the tamest instances when it comes to banning people and deleting comments/posts.

Uh huh.

Bet you don’t even know where the [word] totalitarian comes from or who coined it without looking it up.

Adolf literally Hitler could’ve coined the term, and that wouldn’t change a goddamn thing for how it is used to accurately condemn a genocidal dictatorship. Do you… do you think projection decides what’s real? Like if someone’s the first person to make an accusation, any form of “no you” is false?

we retain our perfect track record of not blocking real instances

Well yeah, your stated agenda is to shit up other conversations. You’re part of a harassment campaign echo-chamber halfway down the gradient from lemmy.ml’s erudite atrocity apologia to hexbear’s openly enforced tankie hugbox.

yuri,

They have no idea what projection is. To them it’s just a word you use to describe people with opinions you don’t like.

TheFriar,

we don’t ban good-faith posters.

What a crock. I was banned for having a discussion about how the “russia is de-nazifying Ukraine” is swallowing Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker. White supremacy is a problem everywhere, but to use it as an excuse for what’s happening is a lie.

Ban.

Silverseren, in Lemmygrad tankies react very sanely to Lemmy.world's defederation

So wait, are they saying they do consider the USSR communist and that being a positive representation of communism?

Oh wait, I forgot, they deny the Holodomor happened, since it happened to the common worker and tankies don't care about them.

SkyezOpen,

Had a tankie claim the gulag were actually not that bad and “most prisoners survived.” Oh neat, I guess we’ll ignore the 1.6 MILLION that didn’t.

PugJesus,
PugJesus avatar

"Most survived" is such a ringing endorsement.

Muetzenman,

Most ist more than a half. You to take what you get i guess.

goat,

oh nah it’s really simple, you just pretend that 1.6 million don’t exist and is cia propaganda

affiliate,

even if that were true, surviving is a pretty low bar. you could get tortured every day for 10 years and still survive. what makes things even more absurd is that (like you said) tons of people didn’t even survive.

nonailsleft,

That’s the beauty of the Gulag, comrade. The more you send there, the more survive!

FireTower,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

Average person: The USSR was Communist.

Communist: The USSR wasn’t really Communist.

Lemmygrad: The USSR was Communism at it’s finest.

protist, in Tankies encouraging violence against civilians

Meanwhile, some on the right wing in the US are calling for the annihilation of Gaza, and Israel has been indiscriminatly killing Palestinian civilians for a long time. What Hamas did was horrific, but this attack does not exist in a vaccuum, and there are literally mainstream politicians calling for the death of civilians right now

goat,

And that behaviour is disgusting for US politicians. Typical for them.

I’m not a fan of Israel, nor am I a fan of Palestine, both kill journalists, both beat queers on the street, and both lack democracy.

DreamySweet,
@DreamySweet@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

The far right hates both and wants both destroyed.

protist,

The far right hates the Jewish people and is also reflexively pro-Israel

FireTower,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

Perhaps the people who support a Jewish state and the people who hate Jewish folk aren’t one in the same.

protist,

In the US, there is a large contingent of the political right who believe both of these things

DreamySweet,
@DreamySweet@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

They hate Jewish people and Muslim people. They are cheering for conflict, not for a specific side.

protist,

No, they are absolutely pro-Israel, and constantly use their unwavering support for Israel as a bludgeon against their political opponents who have a more nuanced view

DreamySweet,
@DreamySweet@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

It’s pretty easy to see what their opinions are by looking at /pol/.

LWJanniesRCucks,

Show me evidence that the far right are pro Israel, because I’ve seen plenty of nazis and far right losers cheer for Palestine

protist,

Donald Trump

LWJanniesRCucks,
protist,
goat,

Visit /pol/

Peaty,

In the USA the fascist evangelicals support Israel because the Left Behind novel series posits that the return of Christ rests on all the Jews dying in a war with Russia.

dnick,

The right in general has always been pro-Isreal, even while being anti-jew in many other contexts. The fact that the far right happens to show up anti-jew in more more contexts doesn’t really change that.

Heavy leaning conservatives have always had the ability to hold opposing viewpoints at the same time in a way the left hasn’t quite been able to grasp. At least not to that extent. The left can be just as hypocritical, but they tend to tie themselves down a bit by feeling as though they have to be able to somehow explain why their viewpoints don’t conflict while the right just changes the subject.

SkyezOpen,

The religious nuts want the jews to completely own Jerusalem because that’s a prerequisite for the end of the world. In that instance, they fully support Israel. The far right in general kinda likes Israel because it’s a modern ethnostate and apartheid state.

Peaty,

The religious evangelical Christian nuts want this because of the “Left Behind” series. The overwhelming majority of Christians are Roman Catholics and do not require the Jews in Israel to die to bring about the second coming.

DreamySweet,
@DreamySweet@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

There are non-religious people on the right as well. The far right hate Jewish and Muslim people and are cheering on the conflict without picking a side because they view it as their enemies destroying each other.

protist,

I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, because you’re right

Epicurus0319,

And literally believe in the end of days as something desirable

abraxas,

Much of the modern far right are economic right or anti-education right, looking for an authority figure to put them above the other guys. I don’t think they care about the end of the world as long as it’s at least 2 days after they die and the folks ending the world give them special treatment until that day.

DavidGarcia, in Tankie incursion on HistoryPorn expressing concern over a 'narrative' of atrocities that actually happened

they weren’t forced, they voluntarily entered the train to avoid getting shot

FaceDeer,
FaceDeer avatar

So the train's operators were actually protecting them.

GombeenSysadmin,

Had me in the first half, not gonna lie

PugJesus, in Tankies reaction to Beehaw removing itself from Lemmy -- "When you adopt an anti-communist stance, you pave the way for unhealthy social trends to takeover" also apparently Beehaw are fascists?
PugJesus avatar

"Like China, our struggle sessions will purify The Party and bring unity to our socialist utopia"

Also, isn't Beehaw like, a bunch of fuckin' hippies? Like the kind of people you'd have to be insane to call fascists?

faintbeep,

deleted_by_author

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  • glassware,

    There’s always been a connection. The German Lebensreform movement on the one hand influenced the hippy movement in the US through a back-to-nature philosophy, while on the other hand evolved into the blood and soil philosophy of the Nazi party. Occultism was also popular in the Nazi party, and Odinist paganism is very popular with European neo-Nazis.

    The modern spiritual movement is made up of middle class women who believe in the divine feminine creating the gift of life, children which they need to protect from vaccines which cause autism and perverts who want to sexualise them. It’s not a long road from there to being an anti-LGBT trad wife who believes in QAnon.

    ThatWeirdGuy1001,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    Odinist paganism is very popular with European neo-Nazis.

    Oh god fucking damnit.

    If I get called a Nazi for having pagan beliefs I’m gonna fuckin lose it

    Justas,
    @Justas@sh.itjust.works avatar

    You can always call yourself by the tradition you agree the most with, like Ásatru or Romuva to confuse the uninitiated.

    Matthew,

    Tankies have an incredibly black and white view of the world. Anyone that isn’t with them is a fascist. It’s also why they can’t accept that their favorite authoritarians have practiced imperialism, oppression of minority groups, and lots of killing. “Stalin believed in the same economic policy that I do, so therefore he never did a bad thing.”

    flying_monkies,
    flying_monkies avatar

    Like the kind of people you'd have to be insane to call fascists?

    Well, it is Hexbear...

    mustardman,

    Hexbear users are pretty stupid because they almost exclusively alienate would-be supporters, or at least close allies.

    They fundamentally cannot see the difference between any non-communist liberals (left) and fascism.

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    Liberals? Fascists. Social democrats? Fascists. Democratic socialists? Fascists. Anarcho-communists? Fascists.

    mustardman,

    Communists?

    Believe it or not, also fascists.

    MolochAlter,

    Funnily enough this one is far more correct than the others.

    WaxedWookie,

    You forgot the true one - Tankies? Fascists.

    What definition of communism ignores worker enfranchisement?

    Bipta,

    They just believe anyone who isn't with them is against them. It's a common human failing.

    Croquette,

    I’d like to point out that liberals are considered left in US, but center right pretty much anywhere else.

    abraxas,

    So calling Socdems “filthy liberals” and telling socdems they’re going up against the wall… is still a great way to scare off potential allies.

    mustardman,

    Hence the parenthesis saying “left”. Hexbear is exclusively full of American users that pejoratively use the term ‘lib’, so it’s important in this context.

    WtfEvenIsExistence, in Tankies mocking the lives lost from communist regimes

    I was the second child in my family born during the one child policy. They tried to force an abortion on my mother. She was from a village and fled to a city and hide. Once I was born, they couldn’t justify killing a child that has already been born, so they let me live, but my parents have to pay tens of thousands of RMB (¥) and that took several years to pay off. And if you don’t pay that, they deny issuing a birth certificate, essentally you don’t legally exist if your parents couldn’t pay the fine. But they eventually did and got all the documents.

    We left China when I was still in elementary school. My mother told me about this when I was a kid and I didn’t really understand what she meant. Then when I was around highschool age, I kinda had an existential crisis. I almost never had a chance to exist because of some crazy government policy.

    Most people hate the CCP because of authoritarianism, but for me, it not just the authoritarianism, I have a personal grudge against the CCP.

    goat,

    I’m very sorry to hear that. Are you safe now?

    WtfEvenIsExistence,

    I am in the US… so for now yea? I’m not sure tho. Fascism also seems popular here. Out of one dictatorship, into another country with racism and rising fascism. Kinda sucks to see every country in the world just enshittifying. I don’t think there’s ever a safe place for Chinese-Americans.

    goat,

    Might I suggest Australia? In Victoria, we have a historically ethnic Chinese population.

    Though mind you, Australia is also the origin of fox news and is insanely racist.

    Deceptichum,
    Deceptichum avatar

    No thank you. We dont need Americans down here.

    Also Australia is one of the least racist countries in the world. Try to name 5 countries as genuinely diverse and multicultural, and welcoming as Australia. Best I could think of is NZ, maybe Canada 5 years ago but its pretty Americanised these days.

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Australia is one of the least racist countries in the world

    Lmao, no

    Deceptichum,
    Deceptichum avatar

    So go on, other than NZ show me a better country.

    goat,

    I’m from Australia and I can tell you it’s pretty racist.

    Deceptichum,
    Deceptichum avatar

    Mate im from Australia and I’m saying find me somewhere less racist?

    Euros openly say shit about Roma that not even a QLDer would have said about Aboriginal peoples in the 70s, not to mention their treatment towards Turks or Africans. America is well America. Canada is trying to be America. Asians discriminate against every other Asian country. India currently going through ethnic genocide, M.E., etc. etc..

    You will not find many countries that are less racist in the world.

    goat,

    mmm… new zealand?

    I get your point. Guess it ultimately depends on how the voice goes, huh?

    nave,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Deceptichum,
    Deceptichum avatar

    Hahaha. Ahh good one mate. America being less racist, fucking hell thats a pisser.

    Aside from all the racist shit thats only ramped up since Obama the US is 13.4% foreign born, Australia is 29.1%.

    nave,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Deceptichum,
    Deceptichum avatar

    And?

    Ive never said there was no racism, you’re not actually saying anything with that link?

    Estiar,

    America is a big place, so I hope you find where you can prosper

    shifty51, in "Zelensky takes a lot of photos with soldiers? Military dictatorship!"

    Why war man stand so close to other war man’s during war time?

    thefartographer,

    Why don’t the larger war man’s simply eat the opposition?

    Rottcodd, in Have you considered... Pol Pot good?
    Rottcodd avatar

    My theory is that the desire to kill people comes first, then something that seems to be a justification is hung on it.

    So for instance, tankies aren't leftists who have come to defend or even advocate for mass killing - they're psychopaths who happen to have adopted leftist ideology.

    I've come to believe that because over the years, I've engaged with people from all over the ideological spectrum who advocated for killing these or those people for this or that reason, and I've never seen any significant differences between any of them. In all cases, one could take the things they say and go through and simply replace each reference to a specific group of people and a few of the key terms with the labels and terms appropriate to some entirely different murderous ideology and end up with something that could have been, and most likely has been, said word-for-word by someone from that ideology.

    To me, the only reasonable conclusion is that they share much more than they don't - that the central thing that defines them is that they want to kill people, and the rest is just sort of filling in the blanks.

    Narrrz,

    when all you have is a hammer...

    weirdwallace75,

    “The True Believer” by Eric Hoffer

    The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements is a non-fiction book authored by the American social philosopher Eric Hoffer. Published in 1951, it depicts a variety of arguments in terms of applied world history and social psychology to explain why mass movements arise to challenge the status quo.

    [snip]

    Hoffer argues that mass movements are broadly interchangeable even when their stated goals or values differ dramatically. This makes sense, in the author’s view, given the frequent similarities between them in terms of the psychological influences on its adherents. Thus, many will often flip from one movement to another, Hoffer asserts, and the often shared motivations for participation entail practical effects. Since, whether radical or reactionary, the movements tend to attract the same sort of people in his view, Hoffer describes them as fundamentally using the same tactics including possessing the rhetorical tools. As examples, he often refers to the purported political enemies of communism and fascism as well as the religions of Christianity and Islam.

    [snip]

    Successful mass movements need not believe in a god, but they must believe in a devil.

    Seasoned_Greetings, in Accidentally found myself on Lemmy.ml and yow

    It’s not perfect, but overthrow would be far, far worse

    These are the same people who look at flaws within the “imperial core” of western countries and conclude that the only thing that would stop their entire population from suffering under capitalism is complete overthrow of the government. Then they don’t see the irony of making statements like “don’t overthrow our government, chaos is so much worse”

    mindbleach, in Accidentally found myself on Lemmy.ml and yow

    Yeah, why would people in a censorship-happy autocracy think the government does everything right, if it wasn’t the absolute truth?

    imaqtpie, in Tankie overdosed on Western pop culture decries 'CIAnarchist'
    @imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I distinctly remember my first encounter with Catradora_Stalinism. She epitomizes hexbear, in many ways. This is honestly relatively mild, in comparison to her entire body of work.

    hexbear.net/comment/3871645

    My favorite part of that exchange was her initial response, “white child says what?”. Real mask off moment.

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    Yikes. Talk about unhinged.

    TAG, in Lemmy Developers add genocide-denialists as Lemmygrad admins.
    @TAG@lemmy.world avatar

    Quick question: what is a “graineater”? I would have guessed that it means vegan, but then I don’t understand the thread.

    goat,

    It mocks the holodomor.

    The holodomor was a genocide by the soviet union, who deliberately withheld grain from annexed states.

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