Somehow this is the only country on earth where this seems to happen. When talking about shootings involving guns, okay, fine, the US is certainly an outlier there, but every country has cars and police.
Fun fact, they actually have no duty whatsoever to protect people :D
"In the 1981 case Warren v. District of Columbia, the D.C. Court of Appeals held that police have a general “public duty,” but that “no specific legal duty exists” unless there is a special relationship between an officer and an individual, such as a person in custody.
The U.S. Supreme Court has also ruled that police have no specific obligation to protect. In its 1989 decision in DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, the justices ruled that a social services department had no duty to protect a young boy from his abusive father. In 2005’sCastle Rock v. Gonzales, a woman sued the police for failing to protect her from her husband after he violated a restraining order and abducted and killed their three children. Justices said the police had no such duty. "
There’s also of course the case with the Uvalde school shooting where not only did cops wait outside for hours as students were being picked off, but prevented parents from going in to try to get their kids out.
I’ve seen this before and I think it is worth adding some context too.
Let’s start with, yea, it leads to absurd result like the clown show in uvalde where I wouldn’t trust that police force to rescue cats from trees.
But… the other way you can’t have a right to a scarce resource (police protection). Police calls while not exactly random can’t be accurately predicted. It doesn’t make sense for a police force to be liable for failing to protect when they might literally not have the ability to protect. Or, through chance, there are no police officers that can get to the location in time.
Instead, the point is to rely on the police wanting to actually do their job and have a legal doctrine accordingly. But in our culture it seems that perhaps that is not necessarily a warranted assumption anymore.
She got shot over driving at a police officer standing in front of her car. The fact that it escalated to that is a pretty bizarre series of events though.
She got shot over driving at a police officer standing in front of her car.
Framed differently, a cop moved in front of her car for an excuse to shoot her. He could just as easily NOT have moved in front of the car and/or have taken a step back like any normally functioning human being would have done.
I don’t think /u/Ilovethebomb was trying to defend it. He’s just adding context. She didn’t only get shot for shoplifting. The shoplifting initiated an interaction with the police that escalated. She started driving away and the cops tried to physically stop the car with their bodies. So one of the cops panicked and shot.
Of course there are many issues - why were the cops pointing guns at her in the parking lot while she was in the car? Certainly didn’t help with de-escalation. I hope the cop who fired the shot and is under investigation gets criminal charges.
Exactly, saying things like she was “murdered in cold blood” doesn’t help anyone, because you’re that far off the deep end nobody outside of your echo chamber will take you seriously.
There have been a few people reply to me saying that, despite what happened, the police could and should have done something different. And they’re probably right, I don’t know how we got from shoplifting to this, but there were probably opportunities to defuse the situation.
Shoplifting is not a death sentence. Driving away from police is illegal, but not a death sentence. She’s trying to leave? Fine, step to the side, take her plate number, and put out a warrant. At no time was it necessary for him to pull out his gun.
But she didn’t even commit shoplifting, she was wrongfully accused and the car rolled after she was dead and her corpse failed to keep pressure on the brake.
Literally the only thing she did was fail to comply with demands to exit the vehicle and turn the steering wheel in an attempt avoid the officer before being shot.
So what she did was not listen violent and angry people who have full privilege to shoot indiscriminately and was shot for it.
I can pretend she did nothing wrong happily, because she barely did anything at all other than be a victim.
No. They’ve had their chances. None can leave without rigorous testing first. We don’t want to end up with another America just in a different location.
What i cannot understand about USA is that they cover as racism, police problems what it is in every other countries labelled as ethnic conflict. They have an empire and multiple ethnicities that hate each others. One of them happear to be black. And they talk about exceptionalism when they are exactly as every other country.
Except that guy isn’t dead. The woman is. The cop has plenty of opportunities to do a really big part of his job, de-escalate, rather than do the opposite, position himself in front of her vehicle and immediately point a gun at her. He went right for the death threat and almost immediately delivered.
The cop deliberately walked in front of her car and pointed a gun at her. She panicked. I’d probably panic too if someone pointed a gun at me. Granted, I probably wouldn’t have drove forward, but it was entirely possible for the cop to not have walked in front of her car, for him not to have pulled a gun. It seems like him pulling the gun is what caused this.
Isn’t it kinda stupid of the police officer to put himself in that dangerous position. He could just as well have let her go and find her later or follow her. Trying to stop a car by standing in front of it is imo. just stupid and unprofessional.
This exactly how it works in normal countries. She was not robing a bank she was just shop lifting. You get the license plates and invite her to court some time later.
Nah, you don’t get to just drive away from the police anywhere, sorry. Most would use less lethal means to stop her, but I don’t think any competent force would just let her leave.
Can’t speak for anywhere else, but can speak for personal experience, here in Italy “take the license plate” or “get in the police car and follow her” would be our procedure. She has not pulled out a weapon, and law enforcement is not supposed to escalate anything, ever. (Exceptions might apply, poorly trained officers exists). Even if she pulled a gun, probably we’d just try to evacuate everyone in the area and call for reinforcements before thinking of pulling out our firearms.
On average we get 5 police deaths in a year out of about 300-350 thousands agents, so I guess it works well enough.
(and yes, I do realize that in US there’s a lot of armed and trigger happy civilians, but that’s just another issue to solve. If a civilian needs a gun for self protection , there’s something really really wrong with society in my opinion)
Nor would any competent force give an ultimatum of “stop or die” over a trivial crime. Most countries would get in their car and try to follow safely, if that wasn’t possible you run the plates and send a summons. A hand should never be near a gun in this situation.
Driving a car without plates is extremely common in this area. It has been ever since they suspended registration requirements during Covid. I see multiple cars without plates every time I go for a drive.
I didn’t know that there was any place in the United States that did not require license plates. There were/are a lot of people asking why the cops didn’t just get the number off her license plates and arrest her later. The simplest answer to that is that the car didn’t have plates on it, but I don’t think that fact played any role in the decisions made by the involved parties. Though, I could be wrong about that.
That’s not how plates are obtained. It has nothing to do with it. When buying a car from a dealership new, they submit all the paperwork, and your plates are sent to you within a month. If it’s used, it should already have a plate, but you can still get one from the DMV through online services in almost every state.
Not having a plate is usually someone avoiding tolls or red light cameras or some other petty crime thing. And to play devils advocate, I suppose it could have been stolen, too.
This area doesn’t have tolls or red light cameras.
Dealers don’t submit paperwork for you to get plates unless you pay extra for the service. Otherwise you get a 45 day temporary tag.
If you buy used in a private sale, then you get nothing. You have to go buy plates. There is no transfer of plates between private parties in Ohio when doing a private sale.
I don’t think the plates would have been in the video frame at any point if they had been on the car. I don’t know if there are any pictures of the scene or not.
OMG, I saw this story on FB, AND every fucking comment was praising the cop! Telling her she deserved it for trying to run away… things like she would have been a terrible mom anyways… just some awful things while the run their hard ons for the cops… It was sickening… I am 23 weeks pregnant with my second son right now and watching people praise her death because she stole something is so bizarre and jarring… I’m pregnant… What if this was a misunderstanding and he had bad information… she didn’t steal a thing and scared of cops tried to get away and now she is dead… Cops are fuckiing scary but not as much as people who want this outcome for stealing some groceries
Edit: some of these comments defending the cop, who put his life in danger on his own so he could have the excuse to kill her, is chilling… You are the reason I made my comment and the reason why I am getting scared of my community… because too many of the people in society want to see someone from some group they hate, hurt or dead by police… Fucking sickening. Shoplifting is not an excuse to use lethal force to stop anyone… the punishment doesn’t fit the crime… people saying it does, are rabid dogs who wish it was them in the cops shoes, feeling powerful… and that’s even more sickening. She left behind a 6 year old because thd pig couldnt have figured out another way to handle the situation… he failed a basic IQ test and too many people are like… “Kay, cool”. Idiocracy was and is a fucking a documentary and y’all just want a gladiator type entertainment with your own people
You really need to reevaluate your thinking if you think untrained civilians have a higher burden than supposedly trained professionals, especially after watching that video
She cranked the wheel all the way away from him. She was trying to go around. Officer “no self preservation” was a dipshit and blocked in a two ton machine with his own body.
Yep and for people in the US they should been keenly aware that there’s a non zero possibly of being shot by police if they feel threatened. That’s just how it is.
Doesn’t matter in the slightest if this is the “right way to handle this”, it’s the reality of the situation where it’s pretty well documented that they’re going to choose their lives over yours if you give them a reason to (say for example driving your car directly at them like a braindead moron)
… You take two steps to the left to move out of the way of the car, or, here’s a fantastic idea, you don’t step out in front of a fucking car in the first place???
Doesn’t matter? This woman was almost a child herself, she lost her life at 21 years old over a bunch of power tripping cops. How fucking dare you. You need to reevaluate what matters.
Part of being a an officer is being able to keep your shit together when civilians do not. Don’t sit here and act like you’d think rationally while a bunch of guns are pointed at you knowing damn well your chances of survival are significantly lower just because your skin is a different color. I seriously cannot grasp how you’re okay writing these comments. You should be ashamed of yourself, seriously.
Don’t they spend like 1000 hours training people about all the safety precautions of a standard road stop, since it has about a dozen dangers - and “standing directly in front of a suspect’s vehicle” ranks somewhere among the dumbest things you can do?
Heck, I caution myself against doing it even when walking around the city, even if all I want to do is warn someone about an obstacle. I’m no freaking roadblock.
Always interesting that people demand average citizens behave more reasonably than so-called trained police. It’s like you accept the presumption that any cop is likely to overreact in murder, therefore the onus is on US not to escalate situations. Interesting how the apologists don’t think cops bear any responsibility for de-escalation.
You keep saying that. "Trying to run over ". No fucking way you could convince me that she wanted to run over that cop! If she wanted him dead, why didn’t she just punch it? Floor the peddle and turn the wheel toward him.
You’re being disingenuous Monday morning qb’ing. Police are supposedly trained in de-escalation. I am not excusing the behavior, but I can understand a random untrained citizen having fear and unpredictable bad decision-making in a situation like this. Whereas the cops absolutely have countless other things they could do that are calmer and more de-escalating.
Ultimately, basic theft isn’t worth death. The problem is that cops have unilaterally decided it is completely unacceptable to not listen to them, up to death. They could have followed her. They could have let her go. There are numerous alternatives that could have happened. Cops in America have endlessly shown they are trigger happy twitchy and rushing to escalate.
The burden is on trained police to behave better than a random person does. This doesn’t excuse her behavior. But the cops are NOT justified either.
Given your capacity for intelligence you’re probably below the max IQ limit for hiring US cops, you should apply, you get to shoot innocent unarmed civilians for misdemeaner crimes while pretending that your own life threatening actions were their fault and you still get the advantage of other braindead troglodytes like yourself defending your murder of a non shoplifter for non compliance, for a crime with no death penalty.
Judge Dredd wasn’t a guidebook on policing you deranged bootlicking homunculus.
How about maybe the police firstly don’t escalate the situation to that point because she was just accused of shoplifting and secondly don’t jump in front of her car in the first place?
Gosh man that must’ve been scary as hell. Glad everything worked out. Did he just draw? Did he point it at you? Did you ignore his order to stay in the car in the first place?
i swear this isn’t an attempt to correlate your story with the story we’re commenting on, but in you’re story specifically do you think that drawing his weapon in your case was justified?
The full story is, I was drunk, my DD was getting a speeding ticket. It was a long ass drive home, so I got out to smoke after she takes all the initial paperwork and goes back to the car.
We are pretty clearly not a threat. Me, wife 2 kids. I’m pretty hammered and it seemed like a good idea.
I know better than to get out during a traffic stop.
But the cop got back out of her car, immediately drew and screamed at me to get back in the car. I did so and ate a speech about how dumb I was.
Do I think the cop was justified in drawing? Absolutely. We are on the side of the highway, in the dark, and the cop didn’t have backup. I fully accept that I fucked up when I got out of the car. You just don’t do that during a routine stop without asking permission first.
Let’s say at that point, instead of getting back in, I turn on the cop and advance on her and have some attitude about her yelling and pointing the gun…at that point she’d be justified in shooting me.
TLDR…I fucked up, the cop did the right thing in that situation, and while scary as hell, the cop was in the right the whole time. My
Well that’s a shity outlook when the cop was trying stage a suicide to have a reason to fire his gun… again he put him self there by choice, he could have chose to move aside and track her… but he chose a method that he could abuse for the reason to fire his gun and punish her for testing his authority… Is sad you can’t see or understand that… or that you are okay with being shot… But during the protests, when people would zoom their cars in to.the crowds to get away from the people, was totally justified… the irony is insane…
why didnt she just got out of the car or roll down the window instead of trying to drive towards the cop? I feel that would be the correct thing to do If she didnt steal then she has nothing to worry about. Not saying shooting her was an appropriate response, just feel the whole thing could have been avoided
She did escalate the situation, but she didn’t cause her own death. Shooting someone who is running away is some old west sheriff shit. She was trying to drive away, not hit the officers. The only situation that a cop should shoot someone is if their life is in direct and immediate danger.
Didn’t see the bodycam, just went off what others said. I was under the impression she was flooring it straight at police officers blocking the exit. Removed my comment.
Why didn’t he just let her drive off, taking her plate details to log a warrant? I feel that would be the correct thing to do. If he didn’t stand in front of her car aiming a gun at her then he has nothing to worry about. Not saying stealing is appropriate behaviour, just feel the whole thing could have been avoided.
It’s how it works in other countries. Many police forces would judge that this situation was not worth escalating, and not worth putting anyone in danger over, and would act accordingly.
That dumb fucker put himself intentionally in harm’s way, and I’d have a really difficult fucking time believing that it wasn’t with the hope that the car would move the tiniest bit so he could shoot her.
I love threads like this where I get to read all the insane takes from the armchair cops. You have the benefits of knowing all the after-the-fact details and not needing to make a split-second decision, so you think it’s just so simple to take your preferred course of action. No, the police are not bloodthirsty murderers who look for any excuse to kill a civilian, but you paint them that way in your head to justify your hatred of them.
Or you could not put your body in front of a car as a means to stop it? Maybe don’t intentionally put yourself in harms way, giving you an excuse to murder?
Absolutely bat shit insane take. There is so much video evidence disproving that. Most cops in America are bad people, either directly or indirectly through lack of action. ACAB
Sure, why not take the handful of stories you read every day about bad cops, then extrapolate way outside that range and confidently declare that “most cops in America are bad people”, which is 1) subjective, and 2) stated without evidence?
The cops performing their jobs without getting into trouble don’t make the news.
Why aren’t those cops who don’t get into trouble (that doesn’t mean they aren’t doing bad things, by the way) doing anything about the cops that are? Doesn’t that make them complicit?
Those “good” cops stand by and do nothing while watching the bad cops be bad. Even if they aren’t going out and hurting people they are part of the problem by enabling that behavior.
whoa there with the most part. You probably haven’t even met or read about even .001% of the cops here. I am no fan of the type of person who is driven to be a cop, but they usually aren’t inherently bad. Some get that way after having to deal with the scum the courts let back out onto the streets, which usually by the way isn’t the scums fault they are scum… shotty upbringing because parents are trying to make ends meet does that. His take is certainly leaning heavy blue. But you don’t have to dive in the other direction to counter it. Take the high road.
i didn’t say you can’t criticize any. Just don’t go overboard on claiming you now how most of them are. That kind of over generalization is exactly what the person you responded to had wrong.
I just watched it. You could say her driving forward while the cop was in front was bad, and maybe it was fleeing, but does that deserve a death sentence? They’re recording with body cameras, so they have her license plate number. They can identify her and put out a warrant for later easily. Is that not more appropriate? Who cares if she was shoplifting. Does that hurt anyone. Let her live and deal with it later if it needs to be dealt with.
They can identify her and put out a warrant for later easily. Is that not more appropriate?
LOL! No it’s not “more appropriate”. They had her right then, so they should let her go, put out a warrant and hope they get her back? Hope the license plate comes back to her or anybody else? Show up at her house so she can lock herself in that? Where does the excuse making end? SHE chose her own fate, SHE had dozens of times to comply, she chose the other way.
In many countries this is exactly what the police are trained to do: de-escalate the situation even if it means letting the person go at that moment, so that no one is put needlessly in danger.
Police everywhere are trained to de-escalate. Its why they have voices, its why they have pepper spray, its why they have tazers, all options before it comes to shooting somebody. That Lady was given every chance there was, and it was her choice to attempt hitting a cop with her car. Zero sympathy
Every chance there was… except for the other chances that you don’t think are appropriate for some reason. You don’t deescalate by pointing a gun at someone, yelling at them, or trying to force your way into their vehicle.
A police officer stood in front of a car then shot at the person behind the wheel because she apparently shoplifted.
Shoplifting is not a capital crime.
The cop shouldn’t have stood in front of the car.
SHOPLIFTING IS NOT A CAPITAL CRIME.
She shouldn’t have stolen from the store, she shouldn’t have gotten into her car. The cop shouldn’t have stood in front of the car, the cop shouldn’t have shot her. An officer should not intentionally put themselves in front of a car THEN declare they fear for their lives.
A) She didn’t run anyone over. B) Stopping an alleged shoplifter is not a valid reason to put yourself in front of a car. C) If you put yourself in front of a car, you don’t get to claim to be afraid for your life. D) Shoplifting is not a capital crime.
Stop right there, she was accused of stealing. I’ve been accused of stealing by a store as well and I did not in fact steal anything. I also don’t like dealing with cops but I’m not going to drive away I’m also not her so I can’t judge her.
Correct, she ALLEGEDLY stole from a store. Even if she DID steal from the store, THEFT IS NOT A CAPITAL CRIME.
Never mind the fact that the fucking officer stood in front of the car TO STOP A SHOPLIFTER.
Any loss prevention associate from Target stands in front of a car to stop a shoplifter is getting fired because even Target knows that’s a dumbass move. How is it that Target trains it’s people better AND holds them more accountable than the fucking police?
Woman scared for her life because officers immediately pointed guns at her for no reason is proven correct when killed by officers for no reason. Just another day in America. Cops just love pulling their guns and using them for no good reason. The only time a cop should be pointing a gun at someone like this is if their life is in immediate danger from that person.
How would society feel if these weren’t cops? If a guy just runs up to your car pointing a pistol at your head you aren’t going to be calm and rational. It’s bullshit we expect anyone to be.
You watch the video?.. Cars get closer to killing me in a parking lot once a month or more. He easily moved out of the way after murdering her. The car was barely moving.
This incident is exactly why that’s justified. Her life was in danger, that cop was clearly itching for a reason to kill her or he wouldn’t have stepped in front of the car. She ran because it was probably her best chance of not getting killed
I mean, I kinda can. We’ve all seen too many videos where police officers pull people out of cars in these situations, she was pregnant… People of color end up dead on the ground outside of that car even if they did nothing wrong, all the time. Even more commonly they get thrown around and beaten. Pregnant woman don’t normally want to get thrown around or beaten.
I want to posit first that this is a satirical answer, and I am not encouraging this in the slightest, just that this might be the “cornered logic” equation that is given to suspects being confronted by police:
Plan B: You whip out a pistol you bought from the gun store, shoot all of the cops that are about to shoot you, and drive off to go live in a different state so it’s hard to follow you.
I would hope and predict that most people committing petty crimes like shoplifting or drugs would not want to hurt anyone, much less a cop, but when that is THE ONLY answer you can give that has a strong chance of survival in the face of the articles everyone has seen, it begs the need for a different answer - one in which there is ZERO chance of a cop killing an unarmed person for petty crime, and attempted evasion of arrest for said petty crime.
When the police are increasingly known and proven to kill people for next to no reason at all, it’s quite difficult to blame a person for being afraid of them when confronted.
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