So she basically said antisemitism is okay because Islamophobia exists. Like, “well, if we can’t stop racism, let’s at least be racist against everyone.” Maybe the worst take in the past 2 months of incredibly bad takes.
This is coming from a white, cisgender person who is neither Jewish nor Muslim, and is worth $60 million ($10 million she made since the start of the pandemic)
This reeks of a well-funded and orchestrated PR campaign to neuter Israel criticism at all cost. They’re really grasping at straws here, and I get the feeling that if the outrage doesn’t stick they’ll suddenly stop talking about her at all and start stockpiling their money/energy for the next semi-tone deaf comment they can twist into a chest-thumping crusade against “antisemitism”.
The way I remember that Affect is active. You affect things. Effect is passive, and is the result of something. Affect is a verb (and I think sometimes can be a descriptor). Effect is always a noun. So you can have the resulting effect of an experiment, but if you mess with some variables, you have affected the effect.
Though, in this case, you’re turning the noun into a verb, so you could make the case for either use I think. If you hyphenate it though you can leave it as is without thought. "Streisand-effecting.
Years ago I had a CEO of the company I worked at make a similar comment; “affect/effect. No one really knows which one to use.” So my contrarian, anti-authority ass just looked it up right then and decided to always know.
According to what I’ve read just now, she said that amid the vile attacks against Jews in America “people that are afraid of being Jewish at this time are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
This: a. Minimizes the violence against Jews and Jewish Gathering places right now b. Makes Jewish suffering secondary to the “real” suffering of Muslims c. Denies the tragic history of antisemitism in America d. Pits Jews and Muslims as two parties somehow against each other, when in reality, both groups suffer whenever racism in America goes unchecked e. Portrays antisemitism as a means to an end - that cold, unfeeling Jews could not possibly understand the suffering of Muslims
Your suggestion that anyone offended by this is paid by some secretive corrupt cabal of globalist to do so…
If doesn’t do any of that, and you clearly missed the point she was making. By a lot.
I didn’t say you, or anyone is being paid to be offended. Is this your first day learning English? A PR campaign doesn’t normally send checks to the people it targets, dumb ass.
Just say you don’t know. It’s fine. You said something that you thought sounded cool, but you didn’t think about what it meant and then you had to save face by resorting to repeated ad hominem jabs. You’ll be much happier in life if you just admit it.
My wife works in marketing, idiot. I know exactly how PR campaigns work. It seems you just don’t know how to read, or have never had an actual job. Or both.
You’ve replied to my comment saying that this is a “well funded PR campaign.” Yet you’re flailing about and sputtering insults trying to explain how something can be “well-funded” but also no one is getting paid and no one is doing the paying. It doesn’t make sense and you know it. So just admit it.
You know what, just put your wife on. At least I can talk to someone capable of making sense.
I’m going to explain this very slowly because it’s increasingly clear that you’re a complete numbskull:
A firm is hired by someone who wants to sell a product or promote a message. That firm’s money comes from who-the-fuck-knows. They pay an agency to develop marketing material that’s designed to amplify and intensify a message, all in an effort to sway consumers or interest groups. BP pays to make commercials that make them sound “green”. The oil company does the paying, and the marketing firms get paid. Target pays to put out billboards that make them sound friendly and like they have the best deals. The retailer does the paying, and the marketing firms get paid. A university pays to encourage enrollment. University pays marketing firm or ad agency. Political figures pay ad agencies to put out campaign ads. PACs pay ad agencies to put out emotional pleas to “stop socialist Biden” or “save Democracy”. Fox News pays talking heads to sell messages and influence voters. The Koch Brothers fund campy TV shows to sell messages and influence voters. Right-wing activists pay literally tens of millions of dollars to YouTube content creators to sell messages and influence voters. Pro-Israel groups spend literally hundreds of millions of dollars to ad agencies and marketing firms to sell messages and influence voters.
Whoever-the-fuck has something they want to promote, they pay someone to put out material at a cadence that will grab people’s attention, elicit strong reactions, and hopefully go “viral” and start being amplified by the rest of the media ecosystem so that John Q. Public hears a coordinated cacophony of self-reinforcing messages. The consumers don’t get paid to be outraged or flattered. Consumers don’t get paid to do literally anything. No one is paying you. You’ve literally been talking about Susan fucking Sarandon for days because you’re so fucking bent out of shape you can’t even sleep at night. And that might very well be because someone paid to put this outrage bait in front of your nose, because they knew you’d cream your fucking pants over it.
Now shut the actual fuck up and go away. I can’t fucking believe I had to explain how a goddamned commercial works to a dipshit on the internet today. Gods help us all.
I can’t believe how far you’ve missed the point. You are accusing Jews of being upset over a comment that minimizes antisemitism because some nefarious scheming cabal has paid to make people feel that way. You still don’t realize how antisemitic that is. You still don’t realize that you are the one being targeted and manipulated.
I have challenged you to pause and actually think critically about the wildly unfounded accusation you made. You responded with repeated insults and weird stalking, staunchly falling short of the task. You still haven’t come up with any plausible firm or individual paid to “generate outrage,” nor an organization paying, nor a smoking gun ad, paid social media campaign, nor commercial, nor any mechanism that this supposed money was used to supposedly influence people.
You’re grasping at straws now with vague handwaving at everyone’s favorite boogeyman, AIPAC, which spends about 1/1000th as much as each of Saudi Arabia or Qatar.. Israel doesn’t even crack the top 10.
I’m finished trying to lead you by the hand to the conclusion that you made an unfounded claim, based in part on antisemitic messaging you have been unknowingly exposed to.
Jews are scared and under physical attack. around. the world. It’s not something that started in the past six weeks. It is harmful when millionaire public figures minimize or justify antisemitism.
You clearly don’t get it, won’t get it, and have no interest in getting it. Here’s a list of charities helping Israelis and Palestinians. Stop wasting your breath insulting a vulnerable minority and go do some good.
I don’t get it, how is it antisemitic to say that jews are being treated like shit? Nowhere does she say she thinks that is a good thing or that she wants that. Honestly do not get how that is any where close to what I would call antisemitism. She isn’t even criticizing jews, which if she was I would call reductionist, like saying all Germans are anal retentive or Italians are noisy, or Americans are dumb. Which by the way, I’m a little annoyed I have to point out I’m not saying any of those things my self, they are just examples
Not everything offensive is antisemetic, although antisemitism is offensive. Conflating the two is where you are confused.
The second paragraph in your response shows you making assumptions that you cannot justify. You do not know me, or my history, so presume not that you do so you do not appear foolhardy.
For every one Muslim who has a wonderful and positive experience in the USA, I can give you ten who are treated like shit, dehumanized and ridiculed on a daily basis. You cannot paper over Islamophobia with one nice anecdote just like you cannot do the opposite with anti semitism.
Yet Sarandon’s comment does exactly that with antisemitism. She portrays it as something that may (should?) be measured in relation to Islamophobia, and she characterizes it as “getting a taste.” Does that mean antisemitism is less than? It accounts for 60% of US religion-based hate crimes, despite Jews being about 2% of the population. It’s been that way for some time.
Is that what she is saying or is she saying that Muslims in the US normally get a lot of hate and since many people are upset by Israel’s actions Jewish people are now getting a taste of that?
Maybe I’m missing some additional context but it doesn’t read to me like she’s condoning the hate towards any specific group, but simply pointing out that it exists.
Maybe she’s full of crap or maybe she’s highly educated on the topic, I don’t know. I do know that it appears to me that people are putting words into her mouth. Again, maybe I’m missing something in the story?
However, getting a taste of their own medicine, as a phrase, normally means it is justified and/or deserved. So, it could be interpreted as being gleeful in Jewish people being targets. I don’t think it is. I think she’s just pointing out that the use of terrorist actions by Israel affects ordinary Jews with nothing to do with the conflict, just like ordinary muslims have been affected for the last 20+ years.
I think the fact that multiple people are getting cancelled over their support for Palestine is worrying. Especially as it doesn’t seem related to a public backlash, but comes from those with power. Maybe heavy handed PR protection. Maybe using influence they have to support Israel.
As I type it, I realize that this is how conspiracy theories about Jewish secret influence starts. That’s not what I mean. I hope I keep my agent.
Is that what the phrase normally means? Or is that just the most commonly held opinion by those offended by it?
The basis of the phrase only seems to mean that something is happening to someone who would normally be doing it to others. It offers no justification at all. Except perhaps poetically.
Or she's saying both are bad, and sticking your head in the sand for one because you don't like them but getting outraged by the other is hypocritical.
A shame Sarandon wasn’t given the same treatment years ago when she claimed chemical weapons attacks in Syria had been faked & presented Assad as the victim of Western regime change policies, rather than the 21st Century’s most notorious war criminal.
Take a look at these articles, it does present a different view on the events, listed some newest to oldest (some dates 3/27/2023 thru 5/19/2019:
Aaron Maté
Aaron Maté is a journalist and producer. He hosts Pushback with Aaron Maté on The Grayzone. In 2019, Maté was awarded the Izzy Award (named after I.F. Stone) for outstanding achievement in independent media for his coverage of Russiagate in The Nation magazine. Previously, he was a host/producer for The Real News and Democracy Now!.
Burying key evidence, new OPCW report covers up Douma’s unsolved deaths
Aaron Mate, so the same guy who is “standing with her” now. And the barrage of links you just posted are all to the same site, “grayzone”. Very much not a propaganda site.
“There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
I don’t think Jewish people need reminding of the west’s antisemitism - the west literally invented it and, despite all pretences to the contrary, has merely tried to hide it from view as opposed to actually dismantling it.
But apart from that her words are perfectly reasonable.
Yeah, I couldn’t see anything in that statement to defend. It was stupid as best, and makes her sound like she condones the behavior. Like you said, Jewish people don’t need a reminder of anti-semitic hate and violence.
As an American Jew, I’ve almost gotten used to facing anti-semitism from the right. A Republican politician is tacitly approving of Nazis waving swastika flags and chanting anti-semitic slogans? Must be a day that ends in Y.
What’s scared me is the anti-semitism I’ve seen from some on the left. I’m not talking about criticizing Israel or wanting the Palestinians to be safe. I don’t count that as anti-semitism. I’m talking about people on the left saying that all Jews are responsible for what Israel is doing and saying that American Jews (including Jewish temples and Jewish owned businesses) are legitimate targets because Israel did stuff they disagree with. And then there are others on the left who try to gaslight Jews who say they are encountering anti-semitism - telling them that they aren’t and are just imagining it.
Intellectually, I know this is a very vocal minority, but suddenly hearing this from the left while still hearing anti-semitic remarks from the right has me scared and not feeling safe. I don’t want to publicly identify myself as Jewish in public for fear of encountering someone who either hates me for my religion or who holds me responsible for the actions of a country that I’m not a citizen of.
people on the left saying that all Jews are responsible for what Israel is doing and saying that American Jews (including Jewish temples and Jewish owned businesses) are legitimate targets because Israel did stuff they disagree with.
Here’s a post from someone on Threads declaring that all Jews are legitimate targets. This was in response to an article about a Jewish Temple and Jewish owned bakery in America being vandalized.
I tried arguing with this person and they eventually limited their “it’s okay to vandalize” to buildings that fly the Israeli flag - which would be every Jewish Temple in America.
So saying that attacking American Jewish places of worship and American Jewish owned businesses because of things Israel has done isn’t anti-semitic? At what point does attacking Jews become anti-semitic to you?
When a person’s vandalism is directed at places because they are where Jews go or places Jews own then there’s no difference. And when someone is targeting Jewish organizations because they are Jewish, that’s anti-semitic whether or not any people are injured in the vandalism.
Don’t fly the flag of Isreal if you disagree with what the government of Isreal is doing, pretty obvious…
Violence and vandalism aren’t the same thing BTW
Let me explain this further, imagine a German person during the Nazis reign in Germany lives in the US, if they fly the flag of the Nazis, do you think they’re endorsing what the government of Germany is doing? If someone vandalized their flag because they disagreed with what Nazi German was doing, would you consider that to be anti-german or anti-nazi?
Let me be absolutely clear, I don’t condone violence against any one aside from in self defense, I think everyone deserves the right to try and find happiness and meaning in life as long as it doesn’t come at the cost of other people’s well being. I don’t consider vandalizing a flag of a country that is committing war crimes to be violence against people. Just like I wouldn’t think burning or otherwise vandalizing a US flag for all the shit the US has done is anti-American (the people who live in America or were born there and moved out of state vs the government/people in power in the US) but nuance is hard apparently.
Synagogues represent Jewish faith, not the government of Israel. There’s a very very important distinction there and failing to make it is a serious issue
Maybe Jewish synagogues shouldn’t fly the flag of Isreal if they don’t agree with what the government is doing then? It’s not saying anything about Synagogues specifically in the screenshot.
FFS do you actually think every synagogue in the world supports Israel? Plenty of Jews have spoken out against Israel’s actions. Yet your world view holds that we should attack their places of worship. That’s disgusting.
I literally didn’t say that, and I know for a fact many Jewish people don’t support Israel.
Is it a requirement for a synagogue to fly the flag of Isreal? Again that’s literally indicating that they support the state and what it’s doing.
Once again vandalizing a flag and attacking Jewish people isn’t the same thing in the slightest.
Idk how more clear I can be, you’re literally misinterpreting what I’m saying and what the post is saying to make it look anti-Jewish when it’s only anti-Isreal.
I’ll say this as plainly as possible, I’m not racist, I’m not religious, I don’t support Hamas, I don’t support Israel. I support people’s right to exist and their pursuit of happiness to the extent that it doesn’t negatively effect or harm other people’s lives.
But you think that if a synagogue flies the star of David - which everyone I’ve seen does - then you believe that means they must support Israel and are therefore valid targets and noone should feel that their place of worship being attacked is in any way aimed at them?
“Open air prison,” indiscriminately slaughtering 2.3 million people,’ even the tumblr-esque “not repeat NOT” framing are all indicative of left language
If you don’t believe me, here’s the exact same thing said but just with right-coding. It’s gonna sound really weird.
"Vandalizing a zionist symbol, when the zionists have been responsible for the deaths of thousands while taking billions of our dollars in foreign aid, is just freedom of speech. Wake up, repadamschiff
Focuses on monetary cost, “freedoms,” and downplays the Israeli/Gazan rift for the more neutral “thousands.” I threw in the “wake up” too since that’s been heavily co-opted, but isn’t technically a right-flag
People in different communities code their languag for their in-group and if you pay attention it’s pretty easy to find, once you catch the commonalities.
As a leftist, and being honest about it, I feel the sympathy draining away from me. I see the long-term process of removing Palestinian people from their lands and all the oppression they go through in their daily lives. Then I see the corresponding silence or even intimidation of critics from the Jewish community in America. I disagree with that post you linked to, but I could see how one could evolve into that position as a leftist.
Again, thanks for that post. It helps me see the path I should avoid. We should find other ways to engage the Jewish communities in other countries to become more vocal against the Palestinian genocide by the Israeli government.
And paths to engage and discuss the issues is definitely the way forward. For example, I’m sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, but when I’m hearing anti-semitic remarks from pro-Palestinian folks, it makes me leery to publicly support the Palestinians. I know it’s a vocal minority, but still it’s unnerving.
Imagine if you believed a cause, went to march for that cause, and then saw some people calling for violence against you. Would you want to join that march?
No matter how good the cause is, having people there saying that I’m personally to blame because I’m Jewish makes me leery to join the cause.
“There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
I don’t think Jewish people need reminding of the west’s antisemitism
To read the original comment again, you may find it’s not about proving or disproving one form of hate but comparing with another level of hate in the country.
And, while there’s no Olympic medal for hate victims being more victimized than another, the physical brand of hate muslims can be a little exceptional after the 1900s. Not being a member of either group, my read of the ‘taste of’ quote would have been more received if the comparison to Germany in the late 1900s was more blatant.
But I’ll take this moment to add: the friends I have whom I know follow Judaism do not hate like one state demands they hate. And that needs to change.
But I’ll take this moment to add: the friends I have whom I know follow Judaism do not hate like one state demands they hate. And that needs to change.
I felt the same until I started watching him amd stopped listening to all the name calling from others.
He is far left.
He is in some ways a bit closer to classical liberals, he has stayed consistant on his views.
Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism which advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; and civil liberties under the rule of law, with special emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech.
And to remind peeps, he is a comedian first and is known for his rants.
Always against censorship, anti-war, M4A, high critic of gov’t, against alphabet agencies (FBI,CIA,NSA,…), amd much more.
At the rally, Sarandon said: “There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
“You don’t have to be Palestinian to care about what’s happening in Gaza,” she wrote alongside the snap with members of the Palestinian Feminist Collective. “I stand with Palestine. No one is free until everyone is free.”
At the rally, Sarandon said: “There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
Guardian:
In remarks captured on video, Sarandon encouraged others to keep speaking up in support of Palestinians in the Israel-Hamas war. “People are questioning, people are standing up, people are educating themselves, people are stepping away from brainwashing that started when they were kids,” said Sarandon at the rally. She encouraged attendees to “be strong, be patient, be clear and stand with anybody who has the courage to speak out” and thanked “the Jewish community who’s come out to have our backs”.
There is nothing offensive there. She’s right, those attacking her are just vehemently against honest conversation about this issue.
This is similar to the idiocy of the Red Scare, where anything less than “I LOVE MARKET CAPITALISM BECAUSE SUPPLY SIDE JEEBUS TELLS ME SO!” made you a blacklisted, ostracized filthy commie pinko.
Except, you know, “standing with Israel” no matter how many war crimes their well funded government and military commits against mostly children with nothing because of a terrorist attack most Palestinians had nothing to do with.
This data is from october, shortly after the beginning of the conflict and the instigating Hamas attack, before Israel really started their onslaught.
I haven’t found a more up to date graph, but it makes the point of who’s been getting killed in the last 15 years. People respond more to graphs than words.
What are talking about?! She’s implying that Jews in the United States are somehow responsible for the treatment Muslims have faced in the country, in the backdrop of an Israeli conflict. At least she thinks they should be feeling something similar. How is she right that she should say Jews in the US should be made to feel like that? What’s the connection? “Nothing offensive,” as well as her remarks show you who the real haters are.
Does she say they should be made to feel that way, or they are feeling that way? It seems an observation, not accusation or prompt for action (beyond stopping hostile actions towards Palestinians).
I hear you. But she doesn’t buffer her language, at least not that the article mentions, on either side to make it sound more academic. It’s clear to more than just me that she said something wrong. And didn’t say enough right.
Except you have mischaracterized what she said. So it’s not clear whether you have an axe to grind and are being deliberately misleading, or if you just blindly follow people who do.
She was dropped by her agency, had others explain to her what she said was hurtful, and ultimately she apologized. She got it wrong. Any mischaracterization here is simply irrelevant. I can see where she got it wrong; there are other ways to state what she said. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand.
My interest in this story does not support the amount of effort it would take to argue with you. You clearly care more about this than me, which, again, indicates you have a particular agenda.
You have inaccurately described what she said, based on the quote you described. I don’t give a shit about Susan Sarandon, or her agency or Israel or Palestine for that matter. I oppose genocide and terrorism, and fascism and politically motivated character assassination. I’m not in a position to comment on who she is as a person, and I have no influence on the violence and conflict.
I’m in a comment section replying to a person who is pushing an agenda. That’s what I’ve said, and unless you have something else to offer other than “Other people agree with me, trust me bro,” then you can just stop now.
See I read what she said as saying is to people who are familiar with fear, understand that is how these other people feel too. And that’s because people can’t connect with others, well, but if you draw a similarity, then they can connect and care. And she very clearly says, no one should feel that way. Multiple times. You can’t take just a small part of what someone says, because that takes it out of context and can entirely change the meaning.
Nothing that any sane, educated human would view as antisemitic. Anti-Netanyahu, sure. Anti war-crimes, yes. Pro hamas, no. Pro peace, yes
This is not an anti-jewish stance at all.
“”" You don’t have to be Palestinian to care about what’s happening in Gaza. I stand with Palestine. No one is free until everyone is free. t.co/23JHFbuf5K— Susan Sarandon (@SusanSarandon) November 4, 2023 “”"
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