There is a difference between old school feminism and some new types. Really its like anything. Some groups emphasize some parts over others and the message changes. Im totally down with jane adams style feminism.
You know the whole process where the most cartoonishly exaggerated viewpoints gain the most media attention?
Well, that doesn’t only apply to people on the outside - groups and movements internally select for attention-grabbing as well. Over time, whatever gains the most eyeballs gradually becomes normalised. When you get people like Clementine ford unironically saying things like Honestly the coronavirus isn’t killing men fast enough, the attention it garners moves the Overton window a little bit each time, pulling the mainstream closer towards it. We’ve become accustomed to the clickbait, but the kids these days are a lot more resistant to it.
Gen Z are a lot more OK than people give them credit for. They grew up living and breathing meme culture, which is massively intertextual and has more layers of irony than my genX ass can even count. They don’t do uncritical acceptance of anyone’s messaging, because they contextualise the living shit out of everything they see, and it’s frankly terrifying.
I’m willing to bet that a lot of the survey respondents ‘looked favourably on’ Tate because they find his awfulness hilarious, and because they find pretending to admire him even funnier because of course he’s a festering piece of shit, that’s the joke (under 27 layers of self-reference). That’d be completely on-brand for my kid, certainly.
At the same time, they’re also going to find terms like ‘toxic masculinity’ unhelpful, because of course they can see how an originally-helpful concept slid via unfortunate phrasing into little more than a derogatory term through popular use and cynical attention-grabbing. They are going to grow into hellaciously effective arts majors, because not only can they see the mechanisms at work, they find them a lot more interesting than the actual content.
I really don’t think this poll reflects what people think it does.
If you consider Andrew Tate a meaningful source on any subject I really don’t care what generation you’re a part of - you’re a fucking idiot and you need to sort yourself out. All you are to him is a gullible mark to extract money from.
The thing to keep in mind here is that he’s very much targeting kids (teenagers but still minors lacking real-world experience) and this is exactly the wrong response to that sort of phenomenon.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but there’s also a LOT of men in their 20s-30s and upwards who’ve bought into his shit. And even teens (speaking as parent to some) know that someone who’s been arrested for sex trafficking isn’t someone to listen to.
It’s almost like there’s been a continuous effort in right wing media to demonize and bastardize feminists. When they talk about feminism they always screech about the most extreme views held by the smallest amount of people, and make it sound like that represents the entire group.
It’s the same strategy they use to attack any group.
Feminism in the 70s, 80s and 90s was women trying to be heard and taken seriously.
Forced quotas are because nothing changed and the rise of fuckheads like Tate is directly related. Too many men think that feminism is a zero sum game. i.e Women getting more rights means men are losing rights. Despite the fact that all they want is EQUAL rights.
Despite the fact that all they want is EQUAL rights.
And that's the lie. Try to tell those "equal rights and quotas" people the same should apply to men in jobs heavily dominated by women and a sizeable and very loud part of them will explode in your face screaming and slavering because you dared to even mention the idea of equality.
Jobs heavily dominated by women are not well-paying jobs, so no one cares. Are there even countries that have quota for women outside of executive positions and politics?
To be fair, men will lose privileges. Before they had to compete only with other men for that juicy executive position. Now they also face women, lowering their chance to get the job. That’s just one example and it is absolutely necessary for this to happen.
“Woke” means anything anyone wants it to mean at the time, so any claim you make about wokeism is devoid of importance, just any claim I make about it is. You could claim wokeism is responsible for colony collapse disorder in bees and I wouldn’t be able to argue with you, it’s an effectively meaningless word.
So what’s wrong with what i’m saying? Feminism is stupid? Well, you should read up on the history of feminism and especially the fourth wave, that basically is nothing else but neoliberalism in it’s worst form. Everything before 2010 basically.
I'm not clear on whether you're saying that all feminism is stupid (obviously wrong), feminism has already accomplished its goal and is no longer necessary (another laughable type of wrong), that modern feminism has some sort of revolutionary obligation with regard to capital (silly as fuck and wrong), or that feminism must stay the same or inherently betray its founding principles (OK, which wave was OK with you? How far back do you think women should go? Wrong, wrong wrong.). Which type of wrong are you?
Neither. I’m saying the actual wave of feminism is not helping the cause, because the issues feminism first set out to combat actually still exist. The issue i have is with overboarding “correctness” and everyone feeling butt hurt when they hear something they don’t like. You don’t agree with my point? Fine, that’s absolutely okay. But verbally lynching me for not agree with my point (even if my point may be factually wrong) is hurting the cause, because it alienates those people even further and basically cements their view of you. But things are not stopping at verbal, because lot’s of “feminists”/“activists” resort to physical stuff…destroying property, destroying lives, etc. Feminists up until the fourth wave protested, they fought rightfully for their rights to be equal and except in some edge cases, they won.
Wishes feminists would protest in a more palatable way, preferably one they never hear about or are inconvenienced by
Those NASTY FEMINISTS are DESTROYING LIVES
Compares being told they are wrong to literally being executed by a racist mob
Yes, obviously people are going to make fun of you, you keep saying ludicrous shit, lol
Look at you talk like men we’re never handed anything and absolutely 100% qualified for their jobs this whole time. Now everyone gets handed a chance to fuck it all up without consequence and be mediocre. And this is where you’re drawing the line. HhhMmmk.
Each individual is fully responsible for the views they carry, there are things instilled in us growing up by previous generations, but it’s on you to improve on their mistakes.
I can hate on the boomers because they had every opportunity to not be shitty. I think in the case of gen z, society ultimately failed them. They have no bright future to look forward to, just rampant inequality and a dying planet. When some loon comes around and tells them all they can go off and be little apes venting their frustration on society with violence and bigotry there’s less reason to ignore them than there should be. That’s not to say everyone’s blameless, but it’s not like 20% of the cohort was born evil and will forever be that way; something external influenced this situation and we need to fix it.
Edit: This interaction is not exactly helping in persuading people that gen z aren’t really bigoted. In fact it will righteously confirm such opinions.
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