Mega Thread - Donald Trump Pleads Not Guilty to Conspiring to Defraud the United States in Arraignment - Washington DC

OldWoodFrame, 10 months ago

For the record I still don’t think Trump himself will go to jail for this. I got pretty heavily down voted last time I said it and might have gotten deleted by a mod or something because I can’t find it in my history. So, for posterity. No jail.

He’s a wealthy, old, former president. The system is set up to be lenient to people exactly like him.

CileTheSane, 10 months ago

If there's no consequences for Trump it just signals to the next Republican president that there is no risk to them trying to do it again.

sin_free_for_00_days, 10 months ago

As it has always been.

lemmybrucelee, 10 months ago

Unfortunately I agree with you.

TheDGeneration, 10 months ago

Convicted most likely, jailed…no

DarkGamer, 10 months ago

He's elderly and in bad health. If he survives long enough to be convicted I bet he does time, but in club fed. There's also decent odds he flees to Moscow.

Ensign_Crab, 10 months ago

There’s also decent odds he flees to Moscow.

Only if his entire Secret Service detail betrays their country.

eestileib, 10 months ago

Uh, like when they tried to abduct Pence? Or deleted all messages from Jan 6?

Secret Service is rotten.

xapr, 10 months ago

He’s a wealthy, old, former president. The system is set up to be lenient to people exactly like him.

You forgot to mention white too. Another major point in his favor under this justice system, arguably the biggest point in his favor.

hobbes, 10 months ago

*Orange

Fapper_McFapper, 10 months ago

This makes me happy. What a nice day today.

sigh, 10 months ago

Non American here, can anyone eli5 what this all means, and what may come of it?

JeffCraig, 10 months ago

It means the DOJ has accused Trump of certain crimes. There will be a trial in a few years to determine if he’s guilty.

Max sentence for these charges ranges from 5 to 20 years. Generally, they don’t get max sentences, but if convicted Trump could face a decades worth of jail time.

MiddleWeigh, 10 months ago

I think he’ll do half of whatever they give him…in Mar a Lago federal pen.

ApeCavalryArt, 10 months ago

Also if someone commits a felony (serious dangerous crime) and someone dies as a result, you can be charged with murder. I learned from Batman comics that if two people steal a car and the driver hits someone, both can be charged with murder.

xapr, 10 months ago

Ooh, I hadn’t even thought of this, even though I was a juror in a case with a very similar scenario to what you described from the comics. This is absolutely true.

JeffCraig, 10 months ago

Prosecutors are not arguing that Trump’s actions led to any of the deaths that occurred during or after the Jan. 6 attack. So this is not relevant.

YoBuckStopsHere, 10 months ago

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

JeffCraig, 10 months ago

These aren’t insurrection charges, so this isn’t really relevant.

FuglyDuck, 10 months ago

You have no idea how disappointed I am in that.

SomeoneElse, 10 months ago

Man you have some smart 5 year olds in America…

acceptable_pumpkin, 10 months ago

Until he’s behind bars it really doesn’t matter if it’s 1 or 1,000 charges against him. Lock him up and away from any type of social media interactions. Realistically this level of treason deserves a much more serious penalty.

kajdav, 10 months ago

only 320 of 79,704 total federal defendants – fewer than 1% – went to trial and won their cases

Federal prosecutors are patient, because that’s what wins cases. I’d bet my left kidney Trump is in jail within 12 months.

pewresearch.org/…/only-2-of-federal-criminal-defe…

JeffCraig, 10 months ago

So, if you break down the numbers, it’s a different story.

97% of defendants plead guilty.

Of the 3% that fight their charges, 25% are acquitted.

morgan_423, 10 months ago

That doesn’t sound like a different story.

I read this as: federal prosecutors go to trial with the goods.

97% of defendents recognize this immediately and plead guilty to try to get some leniency on their sentences. Only three percent of the grand total feel that the government’s case is weaker… and three quarters of those people are wrong.

LeFantome, 10 months ago

Agreed.

Saying that 25% of defendants that fight federal indictment are acquitted makes it sound like the 97% that plead guilty are idiots ( and represented by incompetent lawyers ).

It seems unlikely that 25% of the 97% that plead guilty would walk if they fought. As you say, it is much more likely that these cases are almost certain wins for the DOJ and those charged know it. The guilty pleas are thus an attempt to minimize sentencing or to negotiate a deal ( such as flipping on somebody else ).

mateomaui, 10 months ago

Explains, among other things, why he’s absolutely losing his mind on TruthSocial. Fucker is scared.

kescusay, 10 months ago

His fear gives me life. That asshole deserves to be afraid for the rest of his life for what he’s done to this country.

mateomaui, 10 months ago

I bet contractors in Atlantic City are getting sloshed and laughing their asses off today.

TransplantedSconie, 10 months ago

He should be. Jack Smith is not fucking around and he’s laid out the entire case in the indictment. The other 6 co-conspirators are equally fucked.

mateomaui, 10 months ago

That man is going to divide his ass on pikes from Florida to DC.

Trainguyrom, 10 months ago

Jack Smith has prosecuted US Politicians before and was pulled from The Hague investigating war crimes in Kosovo to run this investigation

onionbaggage, 10 months ago

If he could read he’d be very upset

mateomaui, 10 months ago

Yeah, they generally don’t write indictments in all caps.

dragonflyteaparty, 10 months ago

Or giant text. But it probably does mention his name in every sentence.

aseriesoftubes, 10 months ago

I’d bet my left kidney that Trump is in jail within 12 months.

I hope you have a functional right kidney. This slippery fucker has been getting away with crimes his whole life, and he’s basically a coin flip away from being president again. If he wins in ‘24, he’s going to dismiss every Federal case against him and go on a revenge tour. It’ll get real ugly.

I should add that I believe he deserves to die in prison, just in case that’s not clear.

Cryst, 10 months ago

How is it possible that someone can be under investigation and trial and simply pardon himself. How is this a legal course of action for a criminal to take in the United States?

eestileib, 10 months ago

Because Gerald Ford got the Presidency in exchange for pardoning Nixon.

Zink, 10 months ago

As with lots of issues surrounding him and the US government, the system wasn’t designed to be packed with people acting in bad faith AND a huge chunk of the population ignoring it.

dragonflyteaparty, 10 months ago

It’s basically the idea that this thing isn’t explicitly illegal, so it must be legal.

LeFantome, 10 months ago

Have you read The Constitution? It is short. Give it a read.

The President can pardon federal crimes. There are no specific constraints on that power.

You can argue that the idea of a President pardoning themselves is legally grey but that would be a question for The Supreme Court. Have you taken a gander at who sits on The Supreme Court at the moment?

It is entirely possible that Trump runs from jail, wins, pardons himself, directs the DOJ to dismiss any remaining cases, and moves on.

The President cannot pardon state crimes and so New York and Georgia are beyond his power. That said, Georgia has a Republican governor that I believe has pardon power in his state.

I do not see Trump getting pardoned in New York but those are the weakest charges and the most easily interpreted as a politically motivated witch hunt. If those are the only remaining charges, “The President” can apply a lot of pressure to them and, you know, incite an uprising.

I think Jack Smith is doing a really great job. The most likely outcome seems like jail for Trump. There will be enough convincingly negative stuff coming out of these trials make Trump look pretty damn bad in the news as “independents”’ are making their voting decisions.

I think Trump wins the Republican primary but loses the election. In doing so, he denies himself a Republican President to pardon him ( ironically ). He is thus convicted and goes to jail.

All that said, the darkest timeline possible is pretty dark and pretty crazy.

If the US gets through this, I hope they consider either eliminating or limiting pardon power. It has become very politicized and just makes a mockery of the justice system.

morgan_423, 10 months ago

That said, Georgia has a Republican governor that I believe has pardon power in his state.

I’m pretty sure that I’ve read recently that due to a string of really shady governors abusing the privilege a few decades ago, the governor has zero pardon power in Georgia.

They gave that power to a parole board, and my understanding is that they just don’t grant pardons lightly… there has to be exculpatory evidence proving the innocence of the convict, and Trump is not likely to have any.

jordanlund, 10 months ago

12 months is POSSIBLE, but keep in mind, the NY state trial isn’t until March, and the FL Federal trial is still scheduled for May, but it might get pushed because of the new charges and new defendant.

OldWoodFrame, 10 months ago

I want to know the specific actions here. I think our hearts jump to the storming of the Capitol but the actual charges, I suspect, will be about the effort to send fake electors.

TwoGems, 10 months ago

Charge these guys too jeez

archive.is/dAnTm

These Republicans (16) tried to overthrow elections

No one is surprised Marjorie is in there

mateomaui, 10 months ago

I don’t understand why this isn’t getting stuffed up Jim Jordan’s ass as well. He was the cagiest MF being interviewed later. Just guilty AF.

BoneheadedTwizzle, 10 months ago

This is a streamlined indictment that can go to trial fast. They want him convicted before the general election. They aren’t finished though. I would not be surprised to see additional defendents and additional charges at a later date.

Tilted, 10 months ago

A conspiracy to defraud the United States “by using dishonesty, fraud and deceit to obstruct the nation’s process

This really describes his whole presidency

sudo, 10 months ago

A conspiracy to defraud the United States “by using dishonesty, fraud and deceit to obstruct

This really describes his whole

DirkMcCallahan, 10 months ago

This really describes the Republican party.

blazera, 10 months ago

Id like to imagine, with over 3 years time to prepare by the top prosecutorial body in the country, that theyll make a strong case.

But I cant.

MiddleWeigh, 10 months ago

They got him pretty good.

TheDudeV2, 10 months ago

Read the indictment. It ought to change your mind.

Kinyutaka, 10 months ago

This is a new one? How many indictments are we up to here?

ImFresh3x, 10 months ago

3 indictments. ~80 felonies.

Upcoming:

GA state 2020 election - very likely.

NJ federal charges in separate documents case - quite probable.

AZ state 2020 election stuff - to be seen, investigation ongoing.

TokenBoomer, 10 months ago

Poppinkream already did a mega thread./s

Thanks YoBuckStopsHere

dream_weasel, 10 months ago

But it’s on Reddit and my apps don’t work anymore to see it :(

TokenBoomer, 10 months ago

Poppinkream’s on Lemmy now. Check one of the other Trump indictment threads.

dream_weasel, 10 months ago

Today is a great day. I will search thanks!

YoBuckStopsHere, 10 months ago

I clicked the community button by mistake earlier on their post.

mateomaui, 10 months ago

Oh ok, wondered what happened to my post, at least it was absorbed here!

YoBuckStopsHere, 10 months ago

Sorry, DOJ dropped it while I was commuting home so I couldn’t make it before everything dropped.

mateomaui, 10 months ago

oh no worries, I was trying to figure out if I broke a rule and then saw this, all good

justdoit, 10 months ago

Good. Here’s hoping for a swift trial.

CileTheSane, 10 months ago

Here's hoping the trial ends just a little after Trump is declared the Republican nominee. Pretty sure insurrection makes him ineligible, and it will show how many Republicans support a traitor (not that we don't already know or it would make much of a difference to their supporters...)

Riccosuave, 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

Unfortunately no charges have been filed related to: Sedition, Treason, or Inciting (and/or) Aiding an Insurrection.

Because of this there are currently no grounds to invoke the 14th Ammendment based on the credible legal interpretations I have seen. I have posted this several times on a few different threads including the original thread relating to this indictment, as well as a previous Trump post here that was also deleted by the mods two days ago.

I think it is important for people to understand this point because this is not on the table at the moment which means there is absolutely no guarantee that Trump can or will be barred from office. It is critically important that the arbiter of Trump’s downfall be the will of the voters themselves.

We cannot count on the judicial system to preclude Trump from destroying democracy. It must be a resounding voice from our fellow citizens that sends a message to those who wish to see America become a fascist authoritarian state.

aseriesoftubes, 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

Pretty sure insurrection makes him ineligible

Not to be that guy, but you and everyone else should know that this statement is 100% incorrect, and we should all be worried about that.

Here’s what the Constitution says about who is eligible to be president (Article II Section 1 paragraph 5):

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

And here’s what it says about the president committing high crimes (Article II Section 4):

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Which means that you’d have to get the Senate to convict him with 60 votes, which will never happen.

The Republican Party might have some bylaws related to who’s eligible to be a candidate for president, but the Republican Party is Trump’s party now. They will throw out any such bylaw in less than a heartbeat to avoid alienating the MAGA base.

Edit: I’m probably wrong based on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

transmatrix, 10 months ago

14th amendment bans those who “engaged in insurrection” against the United States from holding any civil, military, or elected office without the approval of two-thirds of the House and Senate.

kbotc, 10 months ago

Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment is what you’re missing.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

He can’t hold any office if he’s convicted of insurrection.

Skyler, 10 months ago

There's a very legitimate chance that Donald Trump could be convicted in multiple cases of multiple crimes and still win the presidency.

The implications of that are terrifying.

masterairmagic, 10 months ago

My popcorn is ready. I expect to be entertained.

Scuzzlebutt, 10 months ago

Can he be on a federal ballot as a felon?

fubo, 10 months ago

He disqualified himself under the Fourteenth Amendment the moment he sent goons to attack Congress. As such, no state should list him on a ballot; he’s not a valid candidate.

YoBuckStopsHere, 10 months ago

The legal question is does the Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment apply prior to conviction in Federal Court. Second, Congress can vote to ignore it with a 2/3 vote in the House.

Sluggles, 10 months ago

Felons can be elected president, but in most cases, cannot vote in the presidential election. Because, America… I guess.

Pratai, 10 months ago

And people are proud to live here….

bungle_in_the_jungle, 10 months ago

South Africa would like to have a word… This is exactly what happened with Jacob Zuma. Thankfully not in a country that’s a world superpower though… 😳

Trainguyrom, 10 months ago

Not long after Trevor Noah took over the Daily Show, he ran this Segment about America’s First African President which absolutely stuck with me for quite a while

bungle_in_the_jungle, 10 months ago

What a legend. Trevor Noah is a national treasure!

WtfEvenIsExistence, 10 months ago

If half of the country thinks he didn’t commit a crime how are we supposed to convene an impartial jury?

Eldritch, 10 months ago

Half or more of the country don’t tend to vote. Of the half that does. A little less than half of that are Republicans. Of Republicans, since they are the lawn order party they don’t care about law and order for themselves. But only about a third of the party might honestly believe that he didn’t do anything wrong. The rest just don’t care.

Neuron, 10 months ago

Big concern, especially with the case being tried in Florida federal court. This most recent case is filed in DC however, and the vast majority of people who live in DC are not very enamored with trump, to say the least.

MimicJar, 10 months ago

You’re not wrong but I want as fair and impartial jury as we can get.

If he “wins” in Florida but “loses” in DC it just becomes another “woke democrats” convicted me vs “patriots” saw the truth.

Don’t get me wrong he’ll say that regardless but losing in Florida is the best case. A simple fact-backed case that can not be weaseled out of. The grand jury shows that this is theoretically possible, now it’s time for the courts to prove it. From what I’ve seen, that is what exists, so I hope that continues to hold true.

squiblet, 10 months ago

His supporters have been groomed (ahem) to think it’s all fake. From something I saw recently, 91% of Republicans don’t believe he has committed federal crimes.

Sneptaur, 10 months ago

It was a smaller percentage than that. What’s terrifying is that the percentage of people who support him is higher than the percentage of those who think he committed crimes.

nytimes.com/…/trump-republicans-poll-crimes.html#

This article states that 17% of voters who support him over Biden admit he committed crimes, but still support him.

Kecessa, 10 months ago

And yet they’re also the ones who would never support letting convicts vote… And probably would never support someone else who had committed a crime becoming president…

Byundai, 10 months ago

Well, that is to be expected when you consider that most Republicans are Christian. When your religion goes against the trans movement and pedophilia, it would be rather hard to go for anyone else.

Sneptaur, 10 months ago

Are you actually equating trans people with pedophilia right now? Absolutely unbelievable. Go outside.

squiblet, 10 months ago

what the fucking hell of fuck does that mean?

Byundai, 10 months ago

?

Kecessa, 10 months ago

They are saying that if you’re against pedophilia you need to vote Republican… Yeah…

squiblet, 10 months ago

And apparently that being trans is somehow related to being a child molester, which is one of the more fucked up things the right has been pushing recently.

lolcatnip, 10 months ago

Remind me again what Jesus had to say about trans people…

People make bigotry their religion and justify it by saying they have to be bigots because they’re Christians, but the existence of Christians who aren’t bigots shows they’re lying, as does even a cursory examination of what their holy book actually requires of them.

Byundai, 10 months ago

I don’t know what Jesus said since I’m not a Christian. Afaik he never said anything about trans people. The belief of Christians that I personally know has been that the trans ideology goes completely against the Bible’s teachings.

Sneptaur, 10 months ago

Those Christians are jumping on a hateful bandwagon, there. Nothing in the bible talks about trans people in any negative light. Hell, even the anti-gay rhetoric was a translation “error” changing the word “pedophiles” to “homosexuals” deliberately in the 1940s…

eltrain123, 10 months ago

deleted_by_author

Byundai, 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

Can you source this? I’ve always been underneath the consensus that it is more or less the same for both sides.

Edit: Regarding politicians - not citizens. Although that would also be an interest data set to look at.

eran_morad, 10 months ago

Who could be surprised, really. Republicans are traitors.

squiblet, 10 months ago

I read that on this link. Is it accurate? idk. oh, i see now it says 'fox news viewers', but that's not really a different group, is it?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/whopping-91-of-fox-news-viewers-believe-trump-has-not-committed-federal-crimes-but-only-42-support-him-in-the-primary/ar-AA1eBAm1

Thedogspaw, 10 months ago

Not really the jan 6 case would legally bar him from running in any state or federal election

DirkMcCallahan, 10 months ago

This is in reference to the 14th amendment, right? Assuming that he’s convicted before the election, how would that be enforced? Say New York refuses to put him on the ballot and SCOTUS says that they can’t do that. What would happen then?

lolcatnip, 10 months ago

There’s no “enforcing” it. He simply isn’t the president, no matter what. If people working in the executive branch choose to obey a fake president instead of the real one, that’s called a coup, and if it succeeds, the United States as we know it will no longer exist because it will be clear to everyone that the Constitution is no longer the law of the land.

Prandom_returns, 10 months ago

Does it have to conclude before 2024?

Thedogspaw, 10 months ago

They might be able to get him to take a plea deal sense he’s only running not to go to jail drop all charges except the one barring him from running again

masterairmagic, 10 months ago

Trump is fucked. The only way out for him to get out of this is to win in 2024.

Thedogspaw, 10 months ago

This is why the jan 6 case is so important get him disqualified from running then we can take the time to get the other case’s right

Thedogspaw, 10 months ago

This is why the jan 6 case is so important get him disqualified from running then we can take the time to get the other case’s right

Thedogspaw, 10 months ago

They might be able to get him to take a plea deal sense he’s only running not to go to jail drop all charges except the one barring him from running again

Daisyifyoudo, 10 months ago

And an equal chance he’ll lose a 3rd popular vote and still have a chance of becoming president. We need to reform or straight out abolish the electoral college.

Rolder, 10 months ago

I don’t think he’d have a chance. His margins on the first win were razor thin and you can bet Dems would be out in droves to stop it.

That said, don’t take it for granted! Go out and vote dammit!

Chocrates, 10 months ago

You say that but the last election came down to what? 40k humans in Wisconsin?
Sure Biden will probably wipe the floor with the popular vote, but the electoral college seems to favour the GOP

Rolder, 10 months ago

That’s my point, he had razor thin margins on many electoral college votes. It sure as hell wasn’t close on the popular vote, after all

TwoGems, 10 months ago

Welp, better get all the zoomers registered to vote.

TokenGingerGuy, 10 months ago

While I agree with this so much, every election we say that. And it never pans out

ImFresh3x, 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

Actually, in the last 3 elections younger voters have turned out in historic records.

2018, 2020, 2022 were the highest 18-29 participation in over 30 years.

Edit:

Related article:

archive.ph/…/gen-z-voters-2024/

OctopusKurwa, 10 months ago

Gen Z turnout was so effective in the 2022 midterms that many republicans have proposed raising the voting age.

Gray, 10 months ago

I was reading about Vivek Ramaswamy on his Wikipedia page last night and I saw that he’s seriously pushing raising the voting age to 25! What a bunch of absolute fascist shitheads. Trying to steal the right to vote from voters that disagree with them. Literally doing the thing they accuse Democrats of doing. It’s the same old bullshit hypocrisy with those fuckfaces. I wish it still surprised me. How anybody could possibly support them at this point is beyond me. They’ve become a joke and nothing more at this point. I wish there was a serious opposition to the Democratic Party. It’s not good to have only one sane party in a country. You want your party’s ideas to be forged in the fire of scrutiny that comes with serious political conversations. But what Republicans have become is useless. At this point I can’t wait for them to just fucking die as a party. Wipe them out so badly that a new party has to rise in their stead. And God I hope it looks nothing like the modern conservative bullshit ideology.

lolcatnip, 10 months ago

Literally doing the thing they accuse Democrats of doing.

Every accusation from them is a confession. I’m not aware of a single exception.

_CottonCandyUnicorn_, 10 months ago

Damn. Realizing this next election will be my first where I won’t be considered a “young” voter anymore. 👨‍🦳

Ado, 10 months ago

Welcome to the party, pal

Chocrates, 10 months ago

Yeah, voting has never worked at probably any level for Zoomers. In Austin the state even overturned local ordinances that passed. It is so fucking hopeless

TransplantedSconie, 10 months ago

Fat ass is fawked, kid.