Mega Thread - Donald Trump Pleads Not Guilty to Conspiring to Defraud the United States in Arraignment - Washington DC

DYDRL, 10 months ago

If the political consultant is Mr. Pillow I’m going to die laughing.

Dekudibusei, 10 months ago

Being Dutch, I had no idea what you were talking about. So, I looked it up. Almost died laughing already.

TokenBoomer, 10 months ago

He’ll need 3 crosses around his neck to beat this one.

TechyDad, 10 months ago

I see his late night ads on OTA TV way too often. I look forward to “Hi, It’s Mike Lindell. I’ve been brought up on federal charges and to pay my legal fees, I’m selling my pillows at a deep discount. Please buy some! I really need the money to pay my lawyers or I’ll go to jail!!”

AlligatorBlizzard, 10 months ago

There was a big auction last month for a bunch of MyPillow industrial equipment, at least one Lemming put in a bid for a forklift but didn’t win it.

btaf45, 10 months ago

Political consultant is either Steve Bannon or Roger Stone.

Blackmist, 10 months ago

Mike Pillow looks like he should be in a cheap sitcom about a South American dictator.

Notyou, 10 months ago

I always thought he looked like a Wish version of Paul Bearer.

nickhammes, 10 months ago

But imagine: The Mike Pillow Show, loosely based on his real life as a deranged pillow magnate, but with kooky Midwestern antics

punninglinguist, 10 months ago

I hope Daryl from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend plays him in the inevitable movie about all of this.

rustyfish, 10 months ago

We could change the threads thumbnail into “MAGA THREAD”. Just saying…

HelloHotel, 10 months ago

Have the “e” crossed out and replace with an “a”

masterairmagic, 10 months ago

dew it 🤣

KneeTitts, 10 months ago

WHAT ABOUT HUNTERS PENIS???

Nix, 10 months ago

I’m still dumbfounded by the sheer number sycophant and adulator that keeps believing the everchanging nonsense he is peddling.

Despite being proven a liar on a regular basis and destroying the lives of even his closest so called allies and friends.

I just wonder what their daily lives are like to be so gullible and never realising that they are being lied to or being taken advantage of. On the contrary, they insult/trample/lash out against anyone trying to help them or even just trying to understand them.

Well, I have given them all the empathy I could muster (amongst the handful of people I knew).

Lying to more than, let’ say, 100 individual (simultaneously to an audience or separately the same lie to different persons) should entail concrete consequence. For example, being confined to their home for a certain amount of weeks/months without access to TV, internet and other means of electronic/immediate information/communication so as to let them simmer in their thoughts for the duration. Whether they are the president of a company/country attempting a subterfuge or a edgy 13 years old trying to impress their classmates.

Having immediate consequence for proven lies would have solved so many past and current problems and impending crisis (from climate change, antivax, cults, PFAS/pesticides to the subprime mortgage fiasco, tobacco/asbestos disinformation, Libor rate, Enron, Theranos, Boeing 737 MAX, Volkswagen emissions, the ongoing cryptocoin/NFT craze, the list is truly endless… ). Small lies eventually leads to bigger and bigger lies until it’s too late.

Obviously, some lies are sometime necessary to still perform what most would consider to be in good faith. For example, preparing a surprise birthday party for someone and everyone participating having to lie to keep them in the dark until moment is right to reveal the surprise. Or, parents making stories to reassure their children in a difficult or unexpected situation.

In the majority of those “in good faith” situations, the number of people being lied to are limited to less than 20 individual and usually only for a known limited period of time. Hence, my undocumented 100 person treshold. If one has to convey the same lie to more than 50 people they should rethink whatever they are up to.

… Welp, I got sidetracked again …

Politician who blatantly lie to get elected would have never been an issue. They can be “mistaken” or “misremembering” until they are proven incorrect. Which they will have to rectify and therefore cannot continue to peddle the same lie or would be locked at home without any means of outside communication for a non trivial amount of time.

The profusion of misinformation will be the downfall of our societies, before even the climate crisis ruins us, if not dealt with in time with the seriousness it requires.

eran_morad, 10 months ago

its simple. republicans are really, really dumb.

HelloHotel, 10 months ago

Thats complicated and I think a bit extreme. The reason we dont do that is because we judge bills on the merit of “if a corrupt law enforcement got a hold of this law, would it be abused to hurt people they dont like”. Yours fails spectacularly.

Edit: “proven lies”? Thats just (oversimplified) getting solotary confinement for a libel case. Libel cases cost the guilty money and not solitary.

blady_blah, 10 months ago

I’m still dumbfounded by the sheer number sycophant and adulator that keeps believing the ever changing nonsense he is peddling.

I actually think they know he’s lying but they enjoy seeing the left get riled up and pissed off. They’re driven by hate. They’re willing to trade away truth, reality, and fairness to hate on liberals, to hate on immigrants, to hate on Muslims, or to hate on “the other” (Trans currently). They chase that feeling of self-righteous victory over the evil “others”. They’ll twist reality to fit that narrative and they’ll partner with the devil himself if he just hurts the right people.

TechyDad, 10 months ago

Not just people who fall for his misinformation, but who keep sending him money. He’s using nearly all of his campaign funds for his legal battles and people keep sending him more despite the fact that he claims to be a billionaire.

If I was a billionaire and found myself in legal jeopardy, I’d be hiring my own lawyers and paying them out of pocket - not begging people to give me money. Then again, I also wouldn’t have started an insurrection against the US so maybe I’m a bad example.

GoodKingElliot, 10 months ago

I appreciate where you’re coming from. But careful you don’t replace Trumpist fascism with some other kind of authoritarianism. You want people who tell lies to face house imprisonment? Who decides what statements are lies? It’s an easy power to abuse.

Smallletter, 10 months ago

You can make this law work by putting requirements on it, such as to an audience or whatever. And then it’s no different than being charged for shouting bomb or fire. Two lies you CAN be charged for.

treefrog, 10 months ago

Fraud is actually the big one.

treefrog, 10 months ago

Fraud is illegal.

Fuck house imprisonment. Real prison.

Sightline, 10 months ago

You want people who tell lies to face house imprisonment? He said politicians.

unodostres, 10 months ago

Nice

aftermath, 10 months ago

The world is watching America. Send this man to prison.

Treczoks, 10 months ago

You would not believe how much this stuff drives the popcorn consumption all over the world.

scottyjoe9, 10 months ago

You heard it here first folks. This is a conspiracy by big popcorn to increase sales.

Treczoks, 10 months ago

Shush! That should have been kept secret! ;-)

makatwork, 10 months ago

Yeah, Pop Secret!

masterairmagic, 10 months ago

Together with that butcher George W Bush.

Zink, 10 months ago

As crazy as this is to watch from within the US, it must be terrifying in a different way for those in other countries. You have this lunatic criminal trying to regain power like it’s a news story about a coup in some small developing country, but it’s the country with the big guns and bombs. Plus, the would-be dear leader might even want to pull out of NATO. Chilling.

starrox, 10 months ago

Exactly.

arc, 10 months ago

I think the document’s indictment will secure a conviction more easily than this, even if this is the one that should see him sent to prison forever.

The reason is simple - the documents crime is self evident - removal of classified documents, attempts to hide their return and an obvious attempt to obstruct an investigation into their whereabouts.

Where as the Jan 6 stuff has enough of a complex timeline that prosecution could screw it up, or the defendant’s lawyers could throw all the co-conspirators under a bus to exclaim Trump was simply given bad advice by his lawyers.

Riccosuave, 10 months ago

I think you are missing some of the important subtext within the indictment itself. I would highly encourage you to read it, as it covers the timeline of events in question in significant detail. Here is an abridged response to the concerns you raised though:

• Mark Meadows (Trump Chief of Staff) has certainly been a cooperating witness since March, or potentially even earlier. He has made no public statements in almost a year, and was notably not insinuated to be a co-conspirator in this indictment. We can infer from this information that there is a strong likelihood that he struck a deal to avoid some or all prosecution in exchange for his testimony. Mark Meadows is where all the bodies are buried pertaining to January 6th. There’s too much information to get into in one comment on this subject, but there is plenty of quality information regarding his involvement from the Congressional Committee as well as from other sources close to the Trump Whitehouse.
• It is extremely likely that some or all of the co-conspirators in this indictment that have not yet been charged will be falling all over themselves to strike their own deals based on the information contained in the public indictment alone. This will give the special prosecutors office additional first hand testimony that speaks to Trumps involvement and awareness both relating to the insurrection as well as the fake electors scheme.
• Mike Pence has already testified before the grand jury, and will certainly be used as a material witness in this case. That is extremely bad for Trump because Pence will likewise be asked to testify regarding Trump’s personal involvement in the fake electors scheme.
• The judge presiding over this case already sentenced multiple different defendants pertaining to January 6th, some of whom received prison time well above the charging guidelines. She will also cut through the attempts by Trump’s attorneys to obstruct the timely procession of this case, and is backed up by an appellate court that is also well versed in striking down frivolous fillings made by previous and existing members of Trump’s legal team.
• This case is being tried in Washington DC, and it is much less likely that there will be jurors who attempt to game the jury selection process in order to hang the jury during deliberations. It will also be next to impossible for Trump to tamper with said jury or witnesses without being swiftly met with additional charges or sanctions up to and including incarceration for the duration of the proceeding as well as a gag order. Any attempts at exerting undue influence in this case would be the final nail in the coffin of his defense.

Lastly, it is true that Trump may publicly claim that he was simply given bad legal advice. However, that argument breaks down the second that there is first party testimony that implicates Trump in directing the decision making of his staff, and co-conspirators against the explicit advice of Chief Whitehouse Counsel Pat Cipollone and others who will also be called to testify. No matter how jaded all of us are (and rightly so) regarding the legal system in this country, I firmly believe that Trump is up against the kind of asymmetrical information warfare the likes of which he has never seen. When it gets down to brass tacks there are a lot of people here who could conceivably die in prison if they do not do the smart thing and flip to save themselves. We are FIRMLY in the find out stages of the game, and I don’t believe for one second that anybody is going to risk their freedom for the rest of their natural life to save Trump’s ass on this one.

Snapz, 10 months ago

Wonderful post.

arc, 10 months ago

I have read the indictment and it’s clear that this is going to be a LONG trial and there is going to be a lot of cross examination with lots of witnesses and complexity of threading the needle. It’s also using more novel statutes which in themselves might bring issues.

So my point is the other indictment is just more straightforward. It’s the old Al Capone analogy of trying to prove an entire criminal enterprise or just hit him for his tax returns. The same is true for Trump except in this case it’s statutes regarding classified documents which he demonstrably violated. Either way he’ll die in prison so I don’t mind as long as he’s convicted of something.

Riccosuave, 10 months ago

What do you mean precisely by using novel statutes? I’m assuming you are referring to the use of these specific charges requiring some level of novel legal interpretation. I’m not sure I agree, but I am interested in your perspective as to why you think that is the case if you have the time/are so inclined. Either way, appreciate your response!

arc, 10 months ago

What do you mean precisely by using novel statutes? I’m assuming you are referring to the use of these specific charges requiring some level of novel legal interpretation. I’m not sure I agree, but I am interested in your perspective as to why you think that is the case if you have the time/are so inclined. Either way, appreciate your response!

One thing he is being charged with is conspiracy against the right to vote. That is a reconstruction era law to stop the KKK intimidating voters and suchlike. Not saying it’s not a relevant thing to charge him with (it seems to be), but it’s a rarely used law and I’m certain defense will be arguing hard to strike it out. The other conspiracies also will require a prosecution to present an actual conspiracy through dozens of witnesses and hundreds of pieces of evidence and I’m sure defense lawyers will be working hard to pretend Trump was mislead by a cabal of greedy lawyers exploiting his better nature.

By comparison unlawful retention and possession of classified documents is pretty yes/no thing with obstruction on top for good measure.

TechyDad, 10 months ago

Trump isn’t even contesting that he took the classified documents. His defense is “I was President so I’m allowed to take anything I want.” Obviously, there’s zero legal basis for this. It’s complete garbage, but this is the legal defense he wants to go with.

Unless Judge Cannon invents new Presidential rights out of thin air, Trump’s going to easily be found guilty.

Rolder, 10 months ago

Likely true, but having all these different indictments going at once really shows how much he’s fucked up. Plus it spreads his lawyers thin trying to handle everything

AssPennies, 10 months ago

He may beat the rap, but he sure as hell isn’t beating the ride. And it’s going to be one damn crazy ride for him, at one of the most inopportune moments.

His financial backing is already starting to crack, and there’s indications his various backers/base might not have the stomach to keep throwing money into this dumpster fire.

On top of all that, he’s getting pretty fucking old, and all this added stress would be enough to make a man’s heart pop even decades younger.

Lastly, our justice system would be remiss if it didn’t carry through with holding him and his cronies responsible.

squiblet, 10 months ago

On top of all that, he’s getting pretty fucking old, and all this added stress would be enough to make a man’s heart pop even decades younger.

I was suspended from Twitter one time (pre-Musk even!) for saying that I thought he would simply be too old and unhealthy to run for President next year, considering he is almost 80 and lives an unhealthy lifestyle. That’s all I said, no opinion, just that belief. According to them that was “wishing harm or violence upon others”.

FReddit, 10 months ago

Bannon for no. 6?

SulaymanF, 10 months ago

I’m more worried than usual, because the GOP is backing him so hard. He’s going to try and delay all verdicts until 2025 by having his lawyers issue motions and objections. If Trump wins, it’s without question he’ll try to pardon himself (and likely fail) or will direct the attorney general to drop all pending cases. We literally could lose American democracy this time around.

mikeboltonshair, 10 months ago

Lol with the hyperbole, lose American democracy… the fact that he’s got so many indictments kinda tells you that’s not a real thing

Riccosuave, 10 months ago

He would absolutely be able to self-pardon for any federal crimes he was already convicted of were he to win. It is unlikely that he will be convicted in any state cases (NY or Georgia) before the election. How ongoing criminal cases in state court would play out were he elected remains to be seen, but he would certainly direct the DOJ to stop any criminal proceedings in federal court.

You are absolutely correct that democracy as we know it is at stake in this election, and I sincerely hope that people understand how deadly serious the stakes are if Trump is allowed to reclaim the Presidency. There would need to be serious organization surrounding a general strike, and the use of other collective actions by the citizens in this country as a mechanism to oppose the dismantling of the United States as we know it.

SulaymanF, 10 months ago

Nobody can self pardon due to a longstanding precolonial rule that you can’t be your own judge. He’ll try anyway, and dare anyone to defy him. It will go to Supreme Court and it’s unclear how they will rule.

Riccosuave, 10 months ago

Very interesting, thanks for the information. I will have to do some additional research on this then. I don’t think anybody should be able to pardon themselves, and one would think the Supreme Court would not be on favor of that either since it would create precedent superseding judicial authority which they won’t like. It’s all a convoluted mess, that’s for damn sure.

hglman, 10 months ago

If he’s in jail and wins, does he get let out? That seems immensely unclear.

Riccosuave, 10 months ago

I think the short answer is:

• Federal Prison, yes.
• State Prison, I have no idea. It would be up to the state to litigate this, and what that would look like I’m not really sure.

hglman, 10 months ago

Why from federal prison?

Riccosuave, 10 months ago

Well, if he is elected president then he would be able to direct the DOJ to have the Federal Bureau of Prisons let him out. The President doesn’t have direct control over the state criminal justice systems, so he would have a more difficult time getting himself released from State Prison. It would have to go through the appeals process, which would ultimately end up in the Supreme Court one way or another. If they choose not to take the case, and all the previous lower courts had ruled to hold him in prison then he would stay in prison.

TechyDad, 10 months ago

And you know that, if he’s elected President again, he’ll ensure that his Justice department will bring cases against everyone he doesn’t like in venues favorable to him.

He’ll open a federal case in Texas against Joe Biden. The charges? Election interference. The proof? Nonexistent. But the Trump appointed judge will find Biden guilty.

Either that or Trump will just send people to prison “pending trial” and will refuse to release them when ordered to.

MiddleWeigh, 10 months ago

Trump just stepped too out of line on these couple charges. The whole design of the grift is to grift low key off an ignorant populous. Donnie Boy did his fellow criminals dirty in drawing attention, so they gotta do something…which will be house arrest at Mar a Lago. Theyll make it a nice private residence jail. Secret service and all. Wouldn’t be surprised if Biden gets involved at some point either. These people are all cut from the same cloth. Donnie just happens to be the worlds most incompetent phsycopath, and gives the rest a bad look.

eestileib, 10 months ago

Biden hates Trump’s guts. He ain’t gonna lift a finger to help him or his family, I’ll take that to the bank.

duviobaz, 10 months ago

deleted_by_moderator

Gradually_Adjusting, 10 months ago

As much as I want him gone forever, it is super hard to carry out death sentences in this country. His natural lifespan is significantly less than the legal proceedings that would take - and it would only make him an infallible martyr in the eyes of some. Being alive means he can keep making mistakes and destroy his own legacy. America needs to render him harmless to democracy itself more than it needs an emotionally satisfying end.

Mightymaxx, 10 months ago

Call me when he’s actually going to jail.

EmperorHenry, 10 months ago

That will never happen. He’ll never be prosecuted for crimes he actually committed.

Like when he didn’t divest from his businesses and took bribes from the Israelis and Saudis. Which nobody ever cared about.

jordanlund, 10 months ago

2 trials are already scheduled, 3rd one follows soon. No word on Georgia first, but we should know that one by 9/1.

So he’s definitely getting prosecuted, assuming he doesn’t have a stroke or something first.

BigNote, 10 months ago

Booorring! Also cheap and obvious.

Call me when you have something interesting and insightful to say.

Mightymaxx, 10 months ago

Settle down this isnt reddit. I made short somewhat sarcastic comment. I hope he rots in jail, but so far it ain’t happening.

jordanlund, 10 months ago

Currently, the first trial isn’t until March, so it will be a minute.

2nd trial is May, but that could get moved.

flickertail, 10 months ago

Chuck Todd mentioned on Meet the Press a few days ago that his pet theory is that Biden will commute Trump’s [federal] sentence if Biden gets reelected (obviously, Trump pardons himself if Trump is elected). As much as I would hope that wouldn’t be the case (honestly I’ve been convinced jail time is inevitable for Trump on these charges and this evidence), I think it’s pretty plausible this winds up being the conclusion to this whole saga.

MiddleWeigh, 10 months ago

I could see that happening.

SulaymanF, 10 months ago

Nah it’s a stupid TV pundit fantasy. Why would Biden do it? What politicial benefit would he get? Would it win him any Republican votes? Would it preserve democracy? No and no. Trump is literally cursing at Biden in speeches.

KevonLooney, 10 months ago

Biden will commute Trump’s [federal] sentence if Biden gets reelected

That would be a lot of political capital used for what? Why would Biden help Trump in any way?

Biden was in the Senate for over thirty years. He knows how to horse trade. Trump has nothing he wants. Former president? Who cares! Biden is literally president now.

topinambour_rex, 10 months ago

Why would Biden helps him ? Creating a precedent. So if a democrat president ends in trump’s shoes, the republican president would do the same.

Or as leverage for get republicans support in parliaments.

Kecessa, 10 months ago

Are you serious? Hasn’t the GOP shown that’s not how they do things enough times for people to understand going high with them doesn’t matter? They know Democrats always go high, it just allows them to go low.

Also… Parliament?

wolfpack86, 10 months ago

I agree. I guess the reason would be “national healing”. That neglects that the innate wish for justice requires punishment for half the country to get the catharsis it seeks.

There’s also a point that he needs to go to jail and the country needs to “hurt” and not “heal” to avoid an even worse situation in the future. If Nixon wasn’t pardoned and was convicted, would we have the same political shitshow we have now? Probably not, and I’d hope it wouldn’t be worse.

flickertail, 10 months ago

That would be a lot of political capital used for what? Why would Biden help Trump in any way?

I would think of it less as “what could Trump give Biden” and more of “what could the MAGAs in Congress give Biden.” Chances are good that a second-term Biden will need to work with at least one Republican-controlled chamber in Congress, and something like this might be what allows him to do something as simple as pass a budget.

For better or for worse, Trump is almost literally the second coming of Jesus to a large number of Republicans, and commuting his sentence might be something that provides Biden some leverage that could allow his presidency to function. Again, not saying that’s anywhere near an ideal outcome (I’d much rather see Trump rot in prison), but it wasn’t an outcome I’d previously considered and one I could see happening.

eestileib, 10 months ago

With Garland in charge I didn’t think we would get this far honestly. Scowlin’ Jack seems to at least be trying.

And this is in DC, not bumfuck Florida. The judges on this circuit, and the appeals court, have generally been acting with dispatch since the appointment of a non-coward to drive this.

FrostyTheDoo, 10 months ago

What’s ur number

ruckblack, 10 months ago

Right? 7 years now I’ve been hearing “oooh he’s really in trouble this time!” I’m so tired of it.

Sinthesis, 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

6. Unknown political consultant Who wants to wager #6 is Roger Jones Stone? Ty everyone for the correction. I blame the stout I was drinking and I guess I wanted to conjoin Roger Stone and Alex Jones

cashsky, 10 months ago

Who is Roger Jones? You mean Roger Stone?

Kandorr, 10 months ago

Stone? But yeah, that would be great.

stewie3128, 10 months ago

Stone.

OhStopYellingAtMe, 10 months ago

Personally, I was hoping it was donald jr. But that’s just wishful thinking.

arc, 10 months ago

There was some state fake electors indictment the other day. Perhaps the name of this co-conspirator is inferable from those other proceedings.

jcb2016, 10 months ago

They really brought r/politics to lemmy. What in the actual hell is going on here?

Snowpix, 10 months ago

My guy comes into a politics community and gets mad when he sees politics. facepalm

SomeRandomWords, 10 months ago

Maybe it’s the specific use of mega threads? I personally like having all of the discussion about a major topic be in one place, but I wouldn’t be shocked if people weren’t a fan.

Riccosuave, 10 months ago

I’m just bummed we lost some of the really great comments on the initial post. I see that many of us have joined back in to the discussion here, but that part does suck in my opinion.

jcb2016, 10 months ago

Not really r/politics only bashed Trump on reddit looks like its doing the same thing here. nothing about Hunter and The Biden crime family!

Snowpix, 10 months ago

Because there’s absolutely nothing to substantiate those claims of a “Biden crime family”. Christ, you people are desperate for anything to attack the “other side”.

jcb2016, 10 months ago

That’s while Hunter tried to take a plea deal but it didn’t hold up?

Lenins2ndCat, 10 months ago

Cool. As long as it doesn’t stop him winning the primary. Trump is far preferable to Desantis who is an incredibly dangerous real fucking monster who only has this chance at running as he’ll be a nobody by the next presidential election because he’ll have been out of Florida for years by then.

kameecoding, 10 months ago

what does it matter if he wins a primary? gop would just nominated someone wouldn’t they? like the guy whi came second, so DeSantis

PersnickityPenguin, 10 months ago

Yeah but DeSantis has zero chance to win against Biden.

SulaymanF, 10 months ago

I’m not sure. In most polling, Biden beats Trump easily, but a Biden-DeSantis mashup has DeSantis sometimes ahead. Mainly because the public wants change and DeSantis is the “new” compared to the other two.

Lenins2ndCat, 10 months ago

I don’t think either of them have a chance, I’d rather he not get one though, and also not get a platform to spew his shit at a far more visible national level than he’s had so far where it’ll get repeated by millions of boomers for the next 15 years. Whether he wins or not he’ll be setting up the next fascist far more effectively than Trump.

SulaymanF, 10 months ago

If I wanted Republicans to win in 2024, I’d pick DeSantis for the primary, but if I want Biden to win, I’d pick Trump and watch the race with worry in case he pulls it off.

Ensign_Crab, 10 months ago

Ideally, DeSantis wins the nomination, Trump stages a huge shitfight at the convention and then runs as an independent, splitting the vote and leaving the party screaming at itself in rage for decades.

Sterile_Technique, 10 months ago

When he’s convicted, there better be fireworks!