Mozilla says Apple’s new browser rules are “as painful as possible” for Firefox

Mozilla is unhappy because the use of browser engines other than WebKit will be restricted to the EU, forcing them to develop two different apps.

For an independent browser like Firefox, managing two browsers is not easy, so it can be forgiven that this could be seen as almost harassment.

Also, the fact that the use of browser engines other than WebKit is limited to iOS means that the use of WebKit is still forced on iPadOS, which also increases the effort for Mozilla.

Source: iphonewired.com/news/746093/

0xtero,

So hear me out. What if we took $6.9M out of the CEO bonus and dropped the Mozilla AI project?
Maybe that would be enough to hire a maintainer or two for Firefox iOS port?
Maybe that could work?
I don’t know, just an idea. Crazy.

GravitySpoiled,

I don’t know what you coul have against mozilla ai?

LWD,

Mozilla: ignores years of customer complaints and requests

Mozilla: creates new product nobody asked for

Fans: “What’s wrong with Product?”

moonpiedumplings,

Mozilla: ignores years of customer complaints and requests

Are these customers donating, or purchasing mozilla products or services so that mozilla doesn’t have to rely on google’s donations?

Mozilla: creates new product nobody asked for

github.com/Mozilla-Ocho

Nearly 10k and 400 stars on those respective repos.

A way to run a large language model on any operating system, in any OS, in a simple, local, and privacy respecting manner?

For linux we have docker, but Windows users were starving for a good way to do this, and even on linux, removing the step of configuring docker (or other container runtimes) to work with nvidia, is nice.

And it’s still FOSS stuff they aren’t being paid for, currently. But there are plenty of ways to monetize this.

Here’s an easy one: tie in the the vpn service they have to allow you to access the web ui of the computer running the llamafile remotely. Configure something like end to end encryption or or nat traversal (so not even mozilla can sniff the traffic), and you end up with a private LLM you can access remotely.

With this, maybe they can afford some actual development on firefox, without having to rely on google money.

LWD,

Are these customers donating, or purchasing mozilla products or services so that mozilla doesn’t have to rely on google’s donations?

I’m confused what you’re trying to say here.

Are you saying that Google has more of a right to dictate what Mozilla does because Google gives Mozilla the most money?

Are you saying Google told Mozilla to work on things other than Firefox with the money they were given?

Why bring up Google at all?

Pantherina,

Telemitry is way more useful than you think, because the loudest are not always right. Same for donations.

moonpiedumplings,

Because much of mozilla’s funding is from a deal with google, that’s why.

US$300 million annually. Approximately 90% of Mozilla’s royalties revenue for 2014 was derived from this contract

From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation

A lot of money, but not enough to actually to actually do a lot. They keep cutting features their “customers” like. Why?

Because development is expensive.

Google props mozilla up to pretend they don’t have a monopoly on the internet. Just enough money to barely keep up, not enough to truly stay competitive.

Mozilla wants to not rely on google money, so they are trying to expand their products. AI is overhyped, but still useful, and something worth investing in.

LWD,

I know that, but why did you bring it up in order to contrast it with Mozilla’s consumer base? Do you mean to say that Google is the actual paying customer?

It seems like such a bizarre thing to bring up at all.

selokichtli,

Yeah, that will fix Apple being total utter assholes. Giving them what they want always fixes everyone being assholes.

jackpot,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

oh yeah put the onus on mozilla, nice one

LWD,

Yes, but also require Apple to expand its EU software to people not in the EU

“Both is good” El Dorado meme

vinhill,

Mozilla has a budget of around 200 mil for software development, so the 7 mil are probably not enough. Not defending the high pay though.

Also, AI Integration into browsers could very well be a deciding factor for mainstream users when choosing a browser. So having some expertise around e.g. running LLMs privacy preserving on client hardware for page summarisation could pay off. Llamafile for example, is something cool coming from the Mozilla AI stuff.

Pantherina,

Firefox is the only browser with local website translation. Literally the extension is the only app on Android that does that.

Shurimal,

Wrong. Vivaldi has had local translation for half a year now.

Pantherina,

Cool! So it works on Chromium, they just need to implement it. Is it Foss? Do they use the same thing as Firefox?

crispy_kilt,

page summarisation

I see a future where the journalist gives the LLM two sentences and asks it to spit out a 2000 word article out of that.

The user then asks the LLM to Tl;Dr the article down to the two core sentences.

Same probably for business email. Jane goes “send an email to Joe saying no.” The LLM goes “dear joe… we appreciate… your valuable conteibution… unfortunately at this time… cannot consider… looking forward… thanks for … whatever”. Joe then clicks the “summarise” button and gets “Jane says no”.

Amazing how far we’ve come.

vinhill,

The same with resumes. Using a LLM to write a resume and cover letter out of key facts, sending it, turning it back into key facts around the applicant.

Auzy,

i used to think that, but I cringe at myself. I’m not sure what other managers there are being paid, and in the CEO’s defence, she was at Mozilla since the beginning, even through their bad times, pre-firefox days, and through their chrome days.

That being said, if its 6.9m dollars though, that is getting a bit high…

Grant_M,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

Apple, Google, Microsoft all worthy of a massive boycott.

feoh,

Apple does not care and will never care about open source other than the bits it has to care about because they’re a part of Darwin, their core.

They’re a company offering a particular “experience” and open source products do not fit into that model well at all. I use apple phones because I’m partially blind and for a very long time the accessibility story on Android was a screaming nightmare (I’m told it’s got better) but I have no illusions that they’re anything other than a profit seeking MegaCorp with all that implies.

ohlaph,

Their lack of choice is why I’ll never buy Apple products.

Zerush,
@Zerush@lemmy.ml avatar

Apple always had been painfull for any third party devs. Also Vivaldi worked several years to create a browser which works in this iPhone thing, and now, after it’s release, Apple admits Chromium. https://file.coffee/u/BPIaDNFX7YJkKtXuMdWNJ.gif

KinglyWeevil,

My wife has an iPad and one of the things I hate the most is that you can’t install adblock extensions into Firefox on it like you can on Android. Which is a thing that has made using the browser on the phone wayyyy more enjoyable.

deranger,

I use DNS level blocking for blocking ads on iOS devices.

PopShark,

Which service do you use (if any) for it? Personally I use controld but I hear NextDNS is the most popular

deranger,

NextDNS. Pretty cheap and supports DNS over HTTPS.

Pantherina,

Yeah not comparable. There is so much cosmetic blocking and also many sites will just load ads from the same domain.

HumanPerson,

Like YouTube iirc.

jadedwench,

I use AdGuard both on my Android phone and iPad. Not quite as good on the iPad because Apple doesn’t make it easy, but definitely makes a huge difference. For me, $30 a year is worth it and you can use it on 3 devices. I got sick of the ads in apps that were downright disturbing in some cases and reporting them didn’t do a whole lot. Browser extensions can do a lot more to tidy up the experience, but I will take what I can get.

adguard.com/en/welcome.html

Loucypher,

You can pay a lifetime licence for 10$ apps.apple.com/fr/app/…/id1126386264?l=en-GB

jadedwench,

I ended up getting it from them directly. I am on Android 90% of the time and don’t pay for the license from the Apple store. No idea if that one is a single device or the same as the multi-device. I tend to not do things from the Apple store as I don’t have an iPhone and they seem to want or assume you have one. Just like I can never use their watch (not that I want one).

ScoobyDoo27,

Why are you paying per year? You can get lifetime adguard licenses for cheap from stack social.

krnl386,
@krnl386@lemmy.ca avatar

The Orion browser for iOS/iPadOS supports both Firefox and Chromium extensions, however, the support is quite buggy and limited. Nonetheless, a valiant effort by Orion devs.

Churbleyimyam,

The fun life of an Apple customer.

LeroyJenkins,

how do I de-apple my iPhone?

amir_s89,
@amir_s89@lemmy.ml avatar

Don’t purchase & start using it from the first place. Save yourself plenty of resources. Focus on something else productive & valuable.

Pantherina,

Direct a heat gun at the area right below the camera for 10min or so. The demon should be gone.

trippingonthewire,

You could try to jailbreak but honestly you’re better off not having an iPhone

okamiueru,

Why would you want to do that?

Genuine question.

Because if it is the hardware you want to keep and not the software, there are good android based options. And if what you want is control over the software, there are also good android options. I’d recommend a Pixel phone, and you’ll always have the option to de-goggle it completely with either CalyxOs, GrapheneOs or similar ones.

LeroyJenkins,

I was more poking fun at how ios users who let an ultra mega corp holds all their data and actively cripples privacy efforts while touting a false sense of privacy as marketing, never ask to de-apple their iPhones

possiblylinux127,

You can’t. At least not like you can on normal phones. There is no way to unlock the bootloader to my knowledge

Jumuta,

genuinely fuck Apple for stealing khtml and driving it into the ground

M500,

I like how just about everyone I who’s looked at this is basically like, “fuck apple”.

There are a few fanboys, but they are way less common than usual.

I’m hoping Apple picks up on this and reverses course.

MrMcGasion,

They won’t care, they have the consumerist crowd locked down. The crowd that buys dozens of Stanley Tumblers so they have one that matches any outfit. There might be more of us who care than there used to be, but the average iPhone buyer doesn’t care and Apple knows it.

EmergMemeHologram,

I am so out of the loop on Stanley tumblers. People are obsessed with them, I don’t get it.

MrMcGasion,

The gist of it from what I remember is a woman’s car burned, but her Stanley tumbler survived the fire, and maybe still had ice in it. Anyway she posted on tiktok about the whole incident, and Stanley’s marketing department got the biggest lay-up ever, I think they bought her a new car, and launched a bunch of new colors of tumblers as limited edition things.

vinceman,

Basically, the person who marketed crocs and made them popular was hired to market Stanley tumblers, and they are genuinely one of the best at their job.

EmergMemeHologram,

I don’t understand it, but they are very good at what they do

sparky,
@sparky@lemmy.federate.cc avatar

I mean, I’ll take a stab at speaking for Apple fans, and in fact developers. (I’m an ex-employee.)

There are a lot of things we like about the user experience on their platforms, and we appreciate their general interest in privacy while not engaging in the dirty data mining / advertising business of Google and Microsoft. There is a polish on their platforms that is best in class.

But I don’t believe any of us actually support the App Store lockdown situation. It’s probably the biggest black mark on their record. I think they got it right on macOS, requiring the binaries to be notarised (signed digitally) in such a way that malware can be blacklisted. This is a useful security feature. But developers are free to distribute however they want and third party stores like SetApp and Steam coexist happily with the App Store.

100% of their arguments about keeping the App Store as the sole distribution chain are bullshit because macOS is the proof. It’s pure rent-seeking behaviour.

porous_grey_matter,

But the privacy is just a facade, right? Like with that recent scandal about the government requesting push notification info, Google of all companies was actually only handing it over with valid warrants while Apple was giving it to any law enforcement who asked.

ursakhiin,

They are absolutely mining data.

erez,
@erez@programming.dev avatar

There is a polish on their platforms that is best in class

As someone who was an Android user and tried switching to an iPhone, I see lots of weird bugs and behaviors I never had with Android. Sure, the OS is slightly better, and rarely crashes, but everything else is a little bit worse.

Literally every Google app is better than Apple’s. Be it Google maps, keyboard, mail, calendar, etc. But because they aren’t made for iPhone, there’s all kinds of little bugs, mostly visual/UI related.

And then there’s all these nonsensical decisions that make my life harder. Hotspot can’t run with wifi on, you can’t record your calls (very useful when talking to banks, government, etc.), can’t even arrange the icons in “home” screen to fixed locations or make them smaller.

I finally figured out that when Apple fans talk about polish, they just mean it looks pretty and feels high-end. Which, sure, I can concede that. But that’s not what I actually care about.

Anyway, rant over, sorry to take it out on you!

Zagorath,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

Honestly, Mozilla doesn’t even have the resources to maintain a proper WebKit-based version of Firefox on iPadOS, when a large amount of the work is handled for them by Apple. (See, for example, the fact that it still does not support multiple windows, a feature that has been available since 2019.) It would seem a mistake for them to try taking on a much larger load of work when they can’t handle what they’ve already taken on.

TrickDacy,

How’s that Cook-dick taste?

Blisterexe,

Missed a chance to say tim-cock

0xCAFE,

It’s not like they’d develop a new engine for iOS. They already have one which can now be used for iOS as well – but not everywhere.

Aradia,
@Aradia@lemmy.ml avatar

Why not stopping developing apps for Apple systems? Fuck them.

TWeaK,

Because then Apple fanbois will complain and tarnish Mozilla’s/Firefox’s reputation

Aradia,
@Aradia@lemmy.ml avatar

They already do that, they can say whatever, they will be isolated with their shitty Apple products and if they want decent browsers then they will need to use decent systems. Apple can’t abuse of their power and force us to follow their abusive rules, they can’t even have a decent UI desktop. They are so bad programmers.

jaybone,

Such a weird take.

Also this has nothing to do with programmers.

Aradia,
@Aradia@lemmy.ml avatar

Just saying their OS sucks, bad designs, buggy UIs, etc. They don’t even decent software, and I already saw many stupid bugs.

TWeaK,

Android was a victim of the NSO’s Pegasus because of WhatsApp, and possibly that only worked because Facebook negotiated with phone manufacturers to bundle dodgy pre-installed system apps outside the Google Play Store.

Apple’s iOS was a victim of the NSO’s Pegasus because of iMessages.

For me, that’s enough to completely steer clear of iOS altogether. I mean, the lack of customisation and control over my device was already enough, but that kind of vindicated it for me.

Aradia,
@Aradia@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah, my Android doesn’t have WhatsApp, I neither have Google apps. It’s a degoogled OS. I feel free and things works, even my default web browser on my Android has NoScript (JavaScript blocker), to make it safer. With Apple… you are sold.

TWeaK,

Ditto! No Google needed, and Facebook apps are prohibited on my phone. I can even get banking apps working with a bit of Magisk, working in Zygisk domain with a deny list hiding it from the apps. Apparently proper SafetyNet checks aren’t that common anymore.

For browsers, I’d recommend Mull and Mulch. Mull is a privacy fork of Firefox, Mulch is a hardened version of Android System Webview (the backend browser that lots of apps use). Both come pre-installed with DivestOS.

Ferk,
Ferk avatar

Developing a crippled port that is limited/restricted by design due to Apple policies would not really help Mozilla’s/Firefox’s reputation anyway. Apple fanbois will complain ether way.

If those fanbois want a Firefox app on Apple systems, it's Apple the one they should complain to.

TWeaK,

it’s Apple the one they should complain to.

Or walk away from.

Darorad,

Mozilla doesn’t have the sort of leverage to make an impact by abandoning apple devices. Firefox has an incredibly low market share and this could push people to other browsers. People tend to use the same browser for stuff like bookmark and password syncing, so abandoning ios could have larger consequences.

Aradia,
@Aradia@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah I understand, but if Apple is fucking up with our development, not only for Firefox, for any developer that makes apps for phones… why keep following their abusive rules? When I say “stopping developing apps for Apple” I mean, any developer that dislikes the abusive rules of Apple and fees. If we abandon the system, the iOS users will need to move to Android or other systems that are more friendly for developers.

Darorad,

Oh yeah generally I’d agree, with firefox I just think it’d be better to do what will push the fewest people away as long as it’s possible to maintain development.

Aradia,
@Aradia@lemmy.ml avatar

Sadly yeah, I was just like “screaming with anger” about what Apple does, and seems everyone just agrees and keep playing their game.

Kidplayer_666,

The issue is that larger companies which could have an impact (Netflix, google, Meta) already have special deals in place that bypass these rules

Aradia, (edited )
@Aradia@lemmy.ml avatar

…spotify.com/…/apples-proposed-changes-reject-the…

And it comes down to a fundamental question: Will the European Commission follow through with its intent to right-size Apple’s abuse of power? Or will the DMA be nice in theory, but in practice, have no substantive meaning for most developers?

From Spotify.

Update: theverge.com/…/microsoft-apple-app-store-dma-rule… Xbox (Microsoft)

pineapplelover,

I’m fucking enraged man. I hope we can regulate these assholes.

sparky,
@sparky@lemmy.federate.cc avatar

I mean, this is basically malicious compliance. They did everything in their power to follow the letter but eschew the spirit of the law. Let’s hope the EU has teeth and keeps applying pressure.

GravitySpoiled,

There is a very easy solution. Don’t buy apple.

grue,

Why do you hate consumer protection law?

umbrella, (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

boycotts barely work, and doubly so when the company has a legion of faithful fanbois and its among the biggest corporations on the planet.

M500,

I’d like to add that even if you sell apple. The only other alternative is android and they have their own set of issues.

For me, an iPhone that allows sideloading would be a huge step towards perfect.

NateNate60,

That’s not a solution. It’s a way for you to avoid the problem. It does nothing to help the millions of people who are already deeply invested in the Apple ecosystem.

takeda,

Then deinvest?

What a fucking argument. “Yes, it is a problem, but it is too hard for me to do anything about it, someone else should fix it”

GravitySpoiled,

then sell apple

oo1,

This could even go as high as a 'don't buy'
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERjJDjjUYAEutgQ.jpg

SatyrSack,

Don’t buy! Don’t buy!

selokichtli,

Perfect for the genius bar.

NateNate60,

Not a solution.

This not only has a time and effort cost attached to it but selling your used hardware to buy new hardware is always a bad value proposition.

hai,
@hai@lemmy.ml avatar

Then sell stonks.

(For legal purposes this is a joke.)

Daxtron2,

sunk cost fallacy

LWD,

Not sure if it’s a fallacy if it’s about addressing people who have spent a ton on an ecosystem and can’t just devote more money to buy the alternative and time to figure out the parts that aren’t compatible

SupraMario,

What parts aren’t compatible? And you can load Linux and Windows on all Mac’s. You can also sell your iPhone and buy an android phone with money left over… getting out of the apple closed ecosystem is cheaper than sticking with it.

LWD,

You can’t refund anything that’s not physical, for one…

SupraMario,

Where did I say refund anything?

LWD,

You asked what parts aren’t compatible, and one answer is everything bought for Apple computers, iPhones, iPads, etc. Apps, media, anything that isn’t subscription based.

SupraMario,

And windows/Android/Linux all have alternatives. This is not an excuse.

LWD,

Okay, so you would advise someone who bought, say, Photoshop on a Mac OS to consider that cost sunk, and then to purchase what on Linux?

SupraMario,

Gimp for Linux. It’s free even.

On top of that the Photoshop license is not os specific. You can use it for Windows or osx.

LWD,

Gimp has a small subset of Photoshop features… That’s… Common knowledge

SupraMario,

Ok? And Photoshop license isn’t for just osx… you’re literally proving the point that you can migrate but you don’t want to because of some stupid allegiance to apple

LWD,

I… Don’t like Apple at all. I’m engaging in a thing called a thought experiment, which is required to rationally assess why somebody might not want to throw away things they have purchased and devote both more time and more money to something that doesn’t work as well as it.

So I don’t know what all the cool killer Mac apps. Replace Photoshop with the name of a bunch of cool killer Mac apps, and repeat the question.

SupraMario,

Well if you’re playing devil’s advocate then I guess ok? But that’s a tough job on this one, as there are very little pros to sticking with apple.

LWD,

What’s the alternative to $5,000 of DRM encrypted media exclusively served by Apple?

The point of this thought experiment is to understand that sunk cost is a real thing outside of a fallacy.

SupraMario,

What media is served by apple only?

LWD,

This

support.apple.com/en-us/HT203375

This

www.apple.com/apple-books/

This

www.apple.com/itunes/

SupraMario,

??? All of that is accessible on both other OS’s

LWD,

sigh

www.apple.com/app-store/

SupraMario,

??? What’s this supposed to be? Shit that’s on the app store…also exists in the android store, usually it’s a 1 to 1.

LWD,

I (and other people) have already said that re-buying the same products and learning alternative ones is expensive in both time and money. That’s the point.

And I don’t know a ton of iOS killer apps but you would probably have to convince people with a ton of effort that Procreate is replaced by something on Android, let alone any other app I don’t know about

SupraMario,

And I’ve already pointed out that almost all products you buy are not OS specific…the license is for the software not the OS. So you don’t have to rebuy, but that seems to be something the fanboys are missing.

LWD,

Every Apple mobile app only runs on Apple hardware. Unless you assume 100% luck or 100% foresight, which is rare, every app that runs on a different platform was written for that different platform in addition to the Apple one.

SupraMario,

Where did I say that you can run ios apps directly on Android or osx dmgs on Windows? I never did, I said they almost always have versions of it that run on different platforms. There is a windows version of Photoshop…so your logic here is that osx version of Photoshop cannot run on Windows…no shit…

NateNate60,

For most people, time is not regarded to be free (i.e. not a cost). As a devoted Linux user, the adage that “Linux is only free if you don’t value your time” is absolutely true.

SupraMario,

Uhh ok install windows then?

deranger,

Can’t do that on ARM. Windows on ARM sucks and there isn’t a good app ecosystem.

SupraMario,

There isn’t a good app ecosystem for arm on osx either? What’s your point?

NateNate60,

I’m not the parent commenter, but Apple Silicon has much wider app support than ARM on Windows. There’s also Rosetta, which works alright, I suppose. Not spectacularly and usually not anywhere near native performance but it’s at least okay.

deranger,

You’re incorrect. Tons of apps are native ARM on Mac now, also rosetta2 emulation is really fast. Obviously not as fast as native ARM but it surprised me.

SupraMario,

Most might be native but tell me what apps don’t have an alternative on x86 and I’ll agree with you.

deranger,

Exclusivity isn’t the point. A healthy app ecosystem is what we’re discussing, which ARM on Mac has. It wasn’t great for 6 months or so, but it’s quite good now.

SupraMario,

??? No the whole discussion on this has been how people can’t get out of the ecosystem. Which I’ve provided multiple ways to get out of it. There is really zero point to even bring up ARM MacBooks, because as you have said the ecosystem isn’t exclusive.

deranger, (edited )

There isn’t a good app ecosystem for arm on osx either? What’s your point?

Did you forget what you said? This is what I’m responding to.

macOS (not osX for many years now) has a healthy app ecosystem, unlike windows for ARM.

And you can load Linux and Windows on all Mac’s.

just install windows

My point is “install Windows” isn’t a valid option for anyone with an ARM Mac, so suggesting it is silly. Mac hasn’t made an x86 computer in a couple years.

SupraMario,

Did you miss the part where I said sell it and buy a x86 machine and have money left over?

NateNate60,

Learning Windows is still a time cost. You’re also losing your library of Mac software and quite a few interoperability features between your other Apple products.

SupraMario,

??? So you’re plan is to just say fuck it, and continue to be fucked over by apple? The fuck logic is that? Almost all software has a replacement in windows/Linux. I work in all 3 ecosystems, there is very little that lacks an alternative in each os. Sticking to osx/iOS is just a cop out.

NateNate60,

No. My argument is that if Apple isn’t going to open up their ecosystem to genuine competition and genuine interoperability then they need to have their hand forced through regulation.

Telling people to just stop buying Apple products is a lazy, knee-jerk self-righteous response that ignores the realities of platform lock-in.

SupraMario,

Good luck with that…I vote with my wallet instead of buying into fad shit.

NateNate60,

You seem to think that regulation doesn’t work. Luckily, we have a test case set up for us in real-life.

In the United States, consumers relied on voting with their wallets. In the European Union, regulatory agencies forced Apple to take pro-consumer moves through regulation.

Now take a look at which approach produced results and which approach left consumers continuing to complain about the lack of interoperability and the lack of competition in Apple’s walled garden.

SupraMario,

Cool, tell me again where we are? And if you think legislation will actually be brought up and passed here in the states…

NateNate60,

No, it’s not a sunk-cost fallacy.

If you already have a bunch of Apple stuff, it makes more sense to continue using Apple stuff, because switching would cost money and effort. You’d also lose access to the software library that you paid for.

Having a bunch of Apple stuff also makes buying more Apple stuff in the future a better value proposition because you gain access to features that you wouldn’t otherwise have. Platform lock-in is not a sunk-cost fallacy. You’re just uninformed and being smug about it.

The sunk cost fallacy only applies when stopping is free or the cost is low enough (in money or effort) that it makes more sense to quit than continue.

TWeaK,

That is the solution though, always has been. Vote with your wallet.

LWD,

Apple: opens its wallet

TWeaK,

Lol that’s basically the Brave attitude, drown out the controversy with a marketing campaign and pull in more new unsuspecting users than the ones you lose.

WhatAmLemmy,

Yeah, let’s ignore the entire history of labor, environmental, safety, and product regulations, and believe everything is the way it is because of our dogmatic free market feefees.

TWeaK,

Lol for a moment there I thought I was going off the rails with my puffa jacket rant above, but your segway into “free market feefees” is far more unhinged.

WhatAmLemmy,

Username checks out

Jumuta,

free market works when the market is actually free.

As soon as entry costs are introduced into the market, the free market falls apart.

Think of the costs of building factories, rnd, lawyers, etc.

WhatAmLemmy,

Fucking lol. Your logic is undeniable!

rikudou,

I do, haven’t seen any changes on anything yet. Apple is still popular, Nestlé is still fucking wealthy, our local billionaire/politician is most likely gonna win the next election (not Trump, I’m not from the US).

Me voting with my wallet has had exactly zero impact on anyone else but me and my immediate family.

So, maybe, just maybe, stop repeating this nonsense. Not enough people care for your or mine boycott to make a difference. And no, the answer isn’t another cool cliché like “educate them”. They don’t care and never will, most people just want stuff to be easy.

In conclusion, “vote with your wallet” is a stupid idea, it doesn’t change anything.

TWeaK,

Apple is still popular. Nestle is still wealthy. But are you contributing to that wealth? Are you responsible?

Take responsibility for what you do, don’t concern yourself with what others are doing.

Support and spend good money on things that are worthwhile. Focus on growing those good things, not worrying about how other things are maybe bigger because of artificial and manipulated inflation.

The one delivering nonsense here is you. You’re incredibly pessimistic. I hope you find some happiness - even if that happens to be through buying Apple watches and Nestle chocolate milk.

rikudou,

I’m not pessimistic, just look around you. Most people choose the path of the least resistance and scummy companies weaponising psychology against us are happy to provide them.

Jumuta,

voting with your wallet doesn’t work when most people would buy anyway (whether it’s because they’re ignorant, trapped to do so, etc)

The minority of people that actually care and know about privacy and software freedom is just a tiny statistic in Apple’s perspective, so voting with your wallet doesn’t work.

TWeaK,

“My actions mean nothing because everyone else won’t do it” is exactly what everyone else is thinking.

You’re making excuses. Be the change you know should happen. Don’t be a sheep.

Don’t buy puffa jackets. Seriously. They’re fucking everywhere now. Don’t do it, you don’t need it, they’re cheap and overpriced.

Jumuta,

I’m already taking actions, but I do it with the understanding that it won’t make much of a difference.

I’m sorry to break your bubble but most people just don’t care. They want their computer to play a video off the internet, and don’t care how long that takes as long as it works. Maybe they’ll care about things in the specific interests they have, but they won’t care about computers, software, and libre software.

We, people that care about software freedom are a minority and we need to accept that. And the only way to get things done when you’re in the minority is to borrow power from the majority, e.g. by passing legislation.

TWeaK,

Most people not caring isn’t a concern of mine. Apple being wealthy isn’t a concern of mine. What concerns me is that the products I use flourish and develop in ways that I like. I don’t use Apple, so I don’t particularly care about them - I just watch the drama from the sidelines.

You’re not bursting my bubble in any way, but you are being a little pretentious.

Jumuta,

That’s fair but I don’t see how that solution contributes to the content thread

TWeaK,

The solution is to realise that Apple aren’t the company for you and move away from them. Support products that fit your ethos. Don’t worry about the ones that don’t and leave them behind.

MigratingtoLemmy,

You cannot root out the evil from within such massive companies. Nvidia still has a stranglehold on the market with CUDA. Literally the only thing one can do is to employ their wallet towards more fruitful endeavours, like donating and purchasing Android in this case. People who are invested into Apple are going to have to face that they made a choice moving away from freedom, even though I understand that staying the odd one out socially isn’t a lot of fun. There’s nothing to be done here unless someone with a lot of money and lawyers sues Apple. Know anyone willing to do that?

pineapplelover,

I don’t. Many people do. To protect their very clear monopolistic goals, we need to protect consumers from this stuff.

refurbishedrefurbisher, (edited )

People should fully own the computers they buy, regardless of which company they buy from.

This means root access and a replacable primary bootloader, let alone just being able to install apps not on a curated market (what Apple calls sideloading). macOS and Windows both manage to allow root access, and so do certain Android devices (and obviously other OSs as well). Replacable primary bootloaders are more rare, though, especially in ARM devices due to efuse-based secure boot in the CPU that is impossible to turn off. There’s only one phone I can think of that allows for replacing the primary bootloader (Shift 6mq).

We shouldn’t allow for artificial restrictions placed by corporations on devices they sell, because as we have seen time and time again, companies copy each others’ restrictions, especially Apple. Same goes with game consoles, IoT devices, Smart TVs, etc. And before you mention the potential for piracy, DRM is an artificial restriction placed by corporations, and should also be removed from devices.

Anything less means that you don’t own the device that you paid for.

Apple is clearly attempting to comply with the EU DMA in bad faith so that they can maintain as much control over their users and app developers as possible.

bionicjoey,

And that’s coming from someone who has “applelover” in their username. They fucked up big time by pissing off even their most loyal fans.

(/j)

pineapplelover,

Honestly, I don’t know how many normies this will upset. Pretty much only techies follow this and the people being annoyed by it might just blame the app developer and not Apple. Time will tell

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