stfn,
@stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

So I've listened to @LateNightLinux Christmas special episode, where the hosts were asked "how to make the internet better?". I fully agree with the views presented there. Decentralization, federation, selfhosting are the ways to make the internet better, go back to the pre-capitalist times before monopolies. One thing that I feel was not mentioned is finding a way to tackle CGNAT and other obstacles in self hosting. 1/x

circfruit,
@circfruit@fosstodon.org avatar

@stfn @LateNightLinux ipv6 or you just buy public ipv4, I doubt your isp doesnt sell those separately. Usually they do.

stfn,
@stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

@LateNightLinux I self host a lot of stuff on my home server, but I am behind CGNAT, my ISP does not offer any means to have an external IP address and therefore I cannot open my services to the wider internet. I feel a simple FOSS tool that would allow exposing your local machines to the internet would be a massive change. Of course, barring in mind all the security concerns of doing so. Security would need to be of prime concern here.

stfn,
@stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

@LateNightLinux I know you can have a VPS and tunnel stuff via it but hosting services from your local machine and at the same needing to pay for a VPS doesn't make too much sense.

What do you think, people?

drizzy,
@drizzy@cyberplace.social avatar

@stfn @LateNightLinux I am lucky enough to have an ISP with public IPv4 support. Otherwise maybe something like https://headscale.net/ might work. You still need to punch through CGNAT so some central server is needed I assume and someone has to pay for it.

stfn,
@stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

@drizzy @LateNightLinux right, thanks. That's the pain I'm talking about, you still need another server.

mobiuscog,
@mobiuscog@fosstodon.org avatar

@stfn @drizzy @LateNightLinux is DynamicDNS not an option ? Or maybe ngrok ?

stfn,
@stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

@mobiuscog @drizzy @LateNightLinux I don't know DynamicDNS, need to check that. As for ngrok, I know it only as this tool to quickly expose your app for maybe 15 minutes, I don't know if it would handle something like a mastodon instance 24/7

mobiuscog,
@mobiuscog@fosstodon.org avatar

@stfn @drizzy @LateNightLinux personally I would never self-host anything with public interaction, as bandwidth/DDoS is a real problem and it preventing hacks is more effort than I care to worry about.

I've done it many years ago in 'simpler' times, and even then it turns into a job very quickly.

I know that doesn't answer the question, but bypassing cgnat is just the initial hurdle - active maintenance and management is much more work.

drizzy,
@drizzy@cyberplace.social avatar

@mobiuscog @stfn @LateNightLinux I would guess DDoS is not really a problem for most self-hosting people. If you have a ton of small instances DDoSing any single one is less appealing. At least until someone paints a target on your back I suppose.

mobiuscog,
@mobiuscog@fosstodon.org avatar

@drizzy @stfn @LateNightLinux anything on the public internet is technically a target for DDoS and/or hacking. You may not be a big target, but many attacks are just random/tests to see what is 'easy'.

For mastodon, I don't know how the federation happens, but I presume other servers will need to query yours, and so how much data would be a question along with frequency.

One last check is whether your ISP allows services to be run.

stfn,
@stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

@mobiuscog @drizzy @LateNightLinux DDOSing is always a possible thing when you expose your services, then again I think my home relatively powerful server would handle a ddos attack better than a 5usd/m tiny linode/hetzner

mobiuscog,
@mobiuscog@fosstodon.org avatar

@stfn @drizzy @LateNightLinux ddos is not about your server. It's about your network connection.

stfn,
@stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

@mobiuscog @drizzy @LateNightLinux I think it's both? Anyway we agree that if you expose something to the internet, it is a possible ddos target :)

mobiuscog,
@mobiuscog@fosstodon.org avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @mobiuscog @drizzy @LateNightLinux thanks! I am self hosting my blog on a VPS, I might do a meta post about how I do it :)

    rail,

    @stfn @LateNightLinux technically there is Cloudflare's tunnel thingy. You could also get a publicly routable IPv6 from HE.net's tunnel broker.

    stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @rail @LateNightLinux duck cloudflare, for many reasons.

    rail,

    @stfn @LateNightLinux fuck that, even regular NAT with public IPv4 makes selfhosting a mess. Internal routing when you want to have a service available both from LAN and the internet is a mess of reverse proxies and inefficient routing.

    We need NAT-less IPv6 to make the internet better.

    stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @rail @LateNightLinux but when are we going to see mass ipv6 adoption?

    rail,

    @stfn @LateNightLinux right now?

    Aside from our Polish hole in the ground, adoption isn't half bad. Global is approaching 50% and places like France, Germany and India already see 70+%. US, Brazil and Japan floating ~50%.

    rail,

    @stfn @LateNightLinux tho the US number can be deceptive, v6 isn't that widespread on fixed broadband but basically every mobile provider uses IPv6

    stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @rail @LateNightLinux hmm, thanks. I need to learn a lot when it comes to ipv6, starting from the basics, like can I right now use ipv6 IP addresses in my LAN.

    me,
    @me@cysioland.pl avatar

    @rail @stfn @LateNightLinux local ISP gives IPv4 for a monthly price but you are not allowed to forward port 80 because they can't figure out remote management of their devices

    stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @me @rail @LateNightLinux so then offer your webpage via ftp :D

    me,
    @me@cysioland.pl avatar

    @stfn @rail @LateNightLinux I solved the problem (not mine, somewhere else with that ISP) by using Cloudflare and going HTTPS-only on our side

    stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @me @rail @LateNightLinux I was wondering about this, can you have a www server with only port 443 open?

    rail,

    @stfn @me @LateNightLinux you should, most browsers will try to reach HTTPS first anyway

    stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @rail @me @LateNightLinux cool, the more you know

    me,
    @me@cysioland.pl avatar

    @rail @stfn @LateNightLinux our target audience is ham radio operators so unfortunately I cannot be so sure about them using reasonably modern browsers

    stfn,
    @stfn@fosstodon.org avatar

    @me @rail @LateNightLinux oooh, ham radio, can you share the link to the page?

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