davew, 3 months ago

@dreid Not very Zen, is it?

"Telling a programmer there's already a library to do X is like telling a songwriter there's already a song about love"

brettcannon, 3 months ago

@dreid What would you like to see instead?

dreid, 3 months ago

@brettcannon It's tough, a lot of the tools that want own the virtualenv (and I should have used own instead of manage) have good reason for it.

It does create a better user experience if you're absolutely on the happy path with those tools.

But trying to use two of them together eventually makes the experience of both worse.

(Current status: configuring tox and poetry)

dreid, 3 months ago

@brettcannon I guess where I ultimately fall is I want pip to do more stuff, no not like that, no that's too much.

😂

brettcannon, 3 months ago

@dreid If/once https://peps.python.org/pep-0735/ lands I would love to have a conversation about standardizing how virtual environments are managed (i.e., location, name)

kaleissin, 3 months ago

@brettcannon @dreid Anyone working on standardizing lockfiles (which DO need to be in the package)

brettcannon, 3 months ago

@kaleissin @dreid Yes, I am 😁 PEP 665 got rejected, but I haven't given up yet (just got my own resolver working so I can write my own PoC)

jezdez, 3 months ago

@brettcannon @kaleissin @dreid an own solver? tell me more

brettcannon, 3 months ago

@jezdez @kaleissin @dreid Don't get too excited: https://github.com/brettcannon/mousebender/blob/resolve/mousebender/resolve.py

jezdez, 3 months ago

@brettcannon @kaleissin @dreid excitement and solvers? naaah, more like morbid curiosity :->

minkiu, 3 months ago

@brettcannon I was thinking the other day, that if PEP 665 got "lukewarm" reception, cause it was focusing on wheels, and reproducability and later on add src (that's my takeaway from the thread), why not do the same proposal but inverted, with src/dist, sort of standarized "requirements.txt" and wheels and reproducibility later on? (I know it's not your use case, but might be a way to just move on with the whole thing? As far as I could tell one wouldn't step onto the other?) @kaleissin @dreid

brettcannon, 3 months ago

@minkiu @kaleissin @dreid Because I only have so much time in this world and I've spent enough of it already doing stuff purely for others that I don't work on projects unless I'm getting something out of it. It's also a motivation thing: I'm about to become a parent and I'm not going to spend non-family time on something that doesn't interest or help me.

brettcannon, 3 months ago

@minkiu @kaleissin @dreid Or more bluntly, if this doesn't work I'm walking away from putting time into lock files and trying to push this particular stone up the hill.