@zachleat So if you're talking about the one I'm thinking of, actually I was in a focus group discussing the redesign and I made exactly that point - if you're going to use the phrases like that be prepared to show the receipts. Any claims of blazing fast performance will always challenge someone to debunk the claim.
@zachleat the original tweet in my post wasn’t fully that, but it shouldn’t be too much work to pull that info out and start putting it on a leaderboard
@zachleat actually, I’ve misremembered. It was just the homepages of frameworks. I’ll have a play this weekend and see if I can start putting something together.
Do you have any Saas services in mind? I remember Vercel having it on their site before
It should be fair to post screenshots like this for companies that tout “the fastest frontends” on their home page—especially notable that this is not a temporary regression. It’s been like this for a long time—why is no one talking about it?
@zachleat This post is super important! I don’t know if everyone realizes just how much you genuinely care about pushing our collective baseline back to something reasonable. It’s too easy to dismiss this critique as competitive, but I have literally never seen you speak out about anything trivial.
Case in point, you could have posted about the massive performance regression I pushed to the @astro website last week, but you gave us a heads up instead.
@zachleat We track a bunch of tools similar to ours (or at least those that haven't blocked our test agents), and yeah, there are some surprising results.
@zachleat can we all already agree that react fucking sucks ? absurd "patterns", complicated API to work with and bad performance by default 🤦
I don't understand how react become the industry standard of javascript UI libraries when vue, svelte are much more ergonomic
@nrk9819@zachleat I have been amazed by how often people deploy hundreds of lines of code to kludge around problems caused by their tool and then say they have to use it because it’s fast and easy.
@zachleat I'd love to see Vercel's answer, but keep in mind that a bare NextJS website is fast. You hit 90/100 without any optimization.
Also, Vercel employs the main dev of Svelte. Vercel's not only backing React/Next.
I don't care about Vercel.com's (landing page) google score (yes, keep in mind it's google score, and it doesn't affect SEO that much) as long as their tools and services are good.
@zachleat How is it relevant for vercel.com, the home page, or for my use case, France ?
It's also 15 years late.
Of course I understand the point though. Of course if your target is the entire world, and people with a slow connection are a significant part of your audience or potential audience, build your website for them.
@zachleat What do you mean that's slow? We're doing what you said right, splitting everything into chunks! Look how cacheable it is! HTTP/2 says it's good! Why don't you like it Zach! Why! Why! Why!
@zachleat What kind of intrigues me is that on 4G throttling and up, it really does feel fast, which I wasn’t expecting given all the server calls. HTTP/2 packing the calls into a single connection, I guess?
On Good 3G throttling and below, though, it really is deeply painful.
@Meyerweb The digital divide! I do think that there is a larger point worth making, as Vercel heavily invests in LLM automation of front-ends—automating this level of quality will only exacerbate the divide 😬
The other point I’d make is that Network throttling is only one piece. Testing on a slow device is another thing entirely.
@zachleat I have found that the real indictment is the showcase section of these sites. The speed of the things they choose to crow about reflects the lived values of these orgs.
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