It's fairly simple. I don't want to spend my time managing my OS. Finding drivers, and compatibility, and all that: you find that fun and interesting. I find it boring and irritating. When I sit down at my computer I want to do the thing I came there to do, not spend my time convincing my computer to run properly. With Windoze, I generally don't have to do that. It's not perfect at eliminating that stuff, but it's a lot less technical and involved than running a Linux distro.
Yes, I'm sure you're able to do just that. Make room in your brain for the idea that not everyone is capable of that, or wants to be capable of that. While I've no doubt that the sign I've hung out here will draw the Reply Guys like no one's business, you're not going to get me to change my mind. I know what I enjoy doing, and maintaining my OS is not among it.
I built - from scraps - my first PC at 14, in 1980. I'm not indigitate (think illiterate, but for digital stuff). I just don't want to. That's not where I get my entertainment from computers.
I'm very glad you get the enjoyment you do out of Linux. Long may it continue. But make room for the idea that we don't all enjoy computing in the way that you do, and that that is okay.
Or (tl;dr version): Damnit Jim, I'm a linguist not a mechanic!
@oldladyplays I am becoming a Linux person after 30 years of being a Windows person. I've tried Linux on and off since the millennium and every time it's gotten better. The latest time (just last year) was so good, so easy, so stable, so ready for whatever I wanted to do with it that I'm now off Windows for good (apart from Work, obvs). All my hardware worked. Drivers were all baked into Linux itself, like Windows does.
It is, I believe, entirely possible for Linux to be there for someone who wants minimal fuss, who just wants to do what they enjoy and not even worry about the OS itself. There are even Immutable Distributions now that pride themselves on keeping a rock solid core intact, the option to overwrite important stuff disabled by default.
There's a lot of slightly stale Linux Lore out there among Linux people and Non-Linux people and I think a lot of folks would be surprised how far it's come in just the last few short years.
@Uraael@oldladyplays The moment Serif decide to port Affinity Publisher and Affinity Photo over to Linux, I would use Windows only for Gaming (which, sadly, is another thing Windows has better support for).
I am hoping Linux will get better support from companies and not only enthusiastic hobbyists in the future. It would be nice to have an equal third player on the board.
Depending on what you do, Linux can already offer a fully functional environment. Writing, for example, or music production (apparently) can be done easily there. For graphic and page design there is much room for improvement, though. Tools offered on Windows or macOS are way, way, better.
would use Windows only for Gaming (which, sadly, is another thing Windows has better support for).
I'm a gamer of 40 years plus, from ZX Spectrum right through to PC. I am now happily gaming on Linux and have deleted Windows from my life. Gaming was my last barrier to full time Linux adoption, now completely gone. Some rare games now even work better on Linux than on Windows because Linux is using the hardware more efficiently.
There are some deficiencies in Software (as you say, the fault of companies who havent invested in Linux) but people still use Linux for every task you can name. Linux has doubled it's (very low) user share stats in the last 18 months: if that continues I expect company support will follow beause companies love money.
@Uraael@oldladyplays I don’t know what games you play but there is no way I could get Cyberpunk 2077 or Midnight Suns to run on Linux without jumping through a lot of hoops for something that is basically an emulator (if it is possible at all).
That is part of the OPs point: Why would I go through all this trouble for an inferior (meaning: unsupported, volatile) solution if it just runs natively out of the box on another platform?
I am happy for every game that has Linux support and I see it happen more and more with Indie games (which is great). But the vast majority is simply not designed for it because they rely on proprietary technologies that aren’t present on Linux. That is obviously not Linux‘s fault but it is a thing.
I simply refuse to wrap my head around that Proton business, when I can just boot to Windows and just play.
I mean, it’s great if it works for you, but for others the joy is not found in the search for the solution but the solution itself.
I don’t know what games you play but there is no way I could get Cyberpunk 2077 or Midnight Suns to run on Linux without jumping through a lot of hoops for something that is basically an emulator (if it is possible at all).
That is part of the OPs point: Why would I go through all this trouble for an inferior (meaning: unsupported, volatile) solution if it just runs natively out of the box on another platform?
Of course I get OP's point: but I'm here saying I DON'T have that kind of trouble on Linux. I've put 50 hours into Cyberpunk 2077 on this platform (until their 2.0 and 2.1 updates destroyed the technical experience for many, including Windows users). In February I finished 60 glorious hours in Everspace 2. UE4 and 5 engine games all work beautifully. Unity engine games all work beautifully. Godot engine games...etc etc. What hoops are you imagining, specifically? Ticking the box as to what Proton version I want to use? Setting Mangohud to limit FPS? Yeah, occasionally I need to set an Environment Variable or check out a missing sound or another issue via ProtonDB but that is the Windows experience as well, as Steam's discussion boards will happily evidence, as well as every gaming forum ever. I own over 800 titles on that platform alone and in the last year I've yet to encounter one I can't play on Linux. And the overwhelming majority of those worked via me clicking one green button marked "Play" after it has installed.
Your refusal to deal with Proton isn't Linux's issue, and it's certainly far easier than learning how to use the Nvidia Control Panel on Windows to tweak driver settings or install Reshade.
WINE still exists and I bet this is what's colouring views on Gaming. It used to be a fiddle to set up. It still is, kind of. Better than it used to be but still unwieldy and incomprehensible. But in a year I've barely ever needed to use WINE. Proton is an absolute game-changer (pun intended).> I mean, it’s great if it works for you, but for others the joy is not found in the search for the solution but the solution itself.
That's a Stereotype that doesn't apply. I do actually enjoy troubleshooting, but like most people I have times I'd rather cut off my arm than do it when I'm looking to get a Task done or just Relax. When I want to game I don't want to spend hours searching forums for tweaks and fixes - I want to pick up my gamepad and play, just like you. It aggravates me no end when I'm forced to troubleshoot because I haven't CHOSEN to have that experience (and again: the number of times I couldn't game on windows because of some technical issue numbers in the thousands).
You need to re-evaluate your Linux information, as I'm discovering a lot of people need to (including some Linux people). Linux can be different, certainly, but if you want it to Just Work, it will. And most of the time it does, just like Windows or Mac.
@Uraael you know I value your opinion but me not wanting to deal with Wine or Proton is exactly the point.
I did struggle with Wine a lot before I had a Windows PC. Yes, eventually I got most games to work, but it was not always easy and always two steps more than would have been necessary under Windows or with native macOS apps.
Also, tweaking the graphics is something I would need to do under Linux as well. It doesn’t magically run better there. My NVIDIA config app has no counterpart under Linux though, making it more difficult.
Why would I go through all this if it just works on the other platforms?
You’re in love novelty of the process not because it is somehow better. Ir does require more steps. That is not on me.
The only reason I bought a Windows PC was because gaming on Mac became too tiresome and limited.
I am glad that you enjoy the extra steps (and I believe you that you managed to get it to work) but I don’t. I just want it to work out of the box with tweaks being optional because I want to, not because I have to.
@orangelantern And I value your opinion but you're not listening.
There are no extra steps.
With Proton it's Install and Play for the majority of titles. It loads with Steam when you install that client, even. Most of the time you don't even see it.
WINE and Proton aren't the same and I definitely think this is what's colouring your viewpoint. WINE now uses Proton because it utterly transformed the capability of getting games working. WINE is pretty awful and even I avoid it if I can. Proton is dancing on air by comparison. Games. Just. Work. No tweaks, no messing with configs - it's all done for you, just as Steam handles game updates for you.
Until game companies start producing Linux native games then Proton delivers experience on par with Windows. Arguably, Proton's existence is an argument against game companies doing that now, it's THAT good.
The experience I'm having is on par with Windows. I wouldn't have set fire to my Windows install if it wasn't. I've held off adopting Linux full time for 20 years mostly because I value Gaming too much and for most of that time Gaming on Linux was a pitiful, painful experience. Last year I found it was finally ready for me, not as some technical wiz who can e-peen my savvy but as a regular gamer who loves games and Hates Windows/Microsoft.
Gotta work now, feel free to respond, but thanks for your input! I appreciate it.
@Uraael OK. I will give it a shot. If it turns out to be that easy, I will officially make a post saying so.
It wasn't the last time I tried but things do change. I would be completely sold if I could get my Epic games to work on there as well.
But first I need to get to the bottom of that infernal clicking sound my speakers produce under Linux. If you have a suggestion, I'm all ears (DM prolly the better choice at this point).
@orangelantern Can't say fairer than that. ☺️👍 I hope it goes well for you. If you run into trouble with a specific game, ProtonDB is a fabulous resource. But do try a few to be sure.
What type of speakers? I can have a nosy around later, if that helps.
@Uraael Haman Kadon, but it's not the speakers. They work perfectly well with Windows or macOS.
It seems to be connected to Ubuntu's power_save feature somehow but disabling it, even permanently, only yields temporary results. Click, click, click, as soon as any speaker or headphone is connected to the audio port (not happening with bluetooth though, which is weird).
btw, that you expect me to run into trouble in the first place is already not filling me with confidence 😅 but, yes, I try to be fair, sometimes it does happen under Windows too – it was quite an adventure to get sound working properly in Midnight Suns, for example. sometimes software is just written crappily.
Also, again, I could name a lot of things that are much worse in Windows. I'm not keen on doing any actual work on this platform either.
btw, that you expect me to run into trouble in the first place is already not filling me with confidence 😅
Yeah, I thought that as I was typing it, hehe, but I have said the experience is on par with Windows, not perfect. ProtonDb is my PCGamingWiki for Linux. I guess I had a little panic: I'm not used to people listening to me! 🤣
Harmon Kardon, eh? Nice. I didn't think it would be the speakers. My next question was distro. I think everyone uses Pipewire for audio these days which I've had zero complaints with, so the popping issue is curious. Excessive Power Management does sound like a likely culprit.
@oldladyplays Everything you wrote is not valid. My 80 year old father is managing his linux system by himself. No drivers are needed (that is something windows need), no maintenance needed (everything works by itself). Your assumptions are completely invalid possibly from ignorance.
It's interesting that you say that, as you can't currently run modern nvidia video cards with Wayland on linux, because the drivers don't yet support explicit sync.
Maybe that's where I went wrong? I'm not meant to have drivers! If I uninstall them, everything will just work!
@oldladyplays I do really understand your points, as someone that does enjoy this stuff. I wish that more time was spent trying to improve the experience of non technical users, and on top of that (which honestly would be a big help on that too) more accessibility features by default. I like it when things "just work" as well, even if I also like debugging and making my own fixes.
@oldladyplays@GLaDTheresCake I like troubleshooting, setting up and figuring out things... When I want to do those things, not when I'm trying to do something else!
I think eventually I'm going to go deep enough into my anarchist commie phase (This is a joke! Mostly! 😂) that I'll move to Linux, but it will have to happen at a very very opportune time for me to have the interest and spoons for it.
Add comment