Web3 and land stewardship, need ELI5

maxmalrichtig, 2 months ago

The moment I see “web3” it’s a scam in my eyes.

www.web3isgoinggreat.com

symthetics, 2 months ago

Honestly if it’s web3/crypto related you can generally dismiss it as nonsense.

Most web3 and crypto projects are set up by two kinds of people:

• well meaning but deluded programmers who think because they know how to code they can solve social/economic/cultural problems.
• scamming cunts.

Sometimes there’s overlap between the two.

The whole space is basically a cult.

Rozauhtuno, 2 months ago

Looks like the love-child of cryptoscams and ethical capitalism. I’d avoid it.

keepthepace, 2 months ago

Is crypto ultimately just an ultra complex way of record keeping here?

Generally yes: the point is to have several record-keepers that don’t have to be trusted individually. There are a few niche where this makes sense, but the Web3 crowd tries to shoehorn this overly complex way of doing things in every aspect.

ex_06, 2 months ago

I won’t read their paper because every kind of DAO is the same in the end so I can generalize it.

They probably use a DAO form to raise money from people giving them back a token that allows them a form of digital ownership. Basically is what an association or a cooperative can do but if they do not actually build that coop or org it just stays a useless token in front of the law. Are they conscious of it? Who knows. Is it good? Ehhh, only if the people behind it are actually iron willed and will keep the mission in front of earnings because, as I said, legally the ownership is on them and not on all the token owners.

I’d avoid it. There are a lot of ways to pay associations to plant trees or ensure wildlife while also not feeding a bullshit machine :)

danielquinn, 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

TL;DR: your assessment is correct. It’s just a complicated (and energy intensive!) way of keeping track of things.

They’ve got this little commune thing going on and they want a way to keep track of people’s contributions to community. Because they’re blockchain nerds, they reached for their favourite tool and gave it a hippie name: “carrot”.

The idea is that every time you do something that’s good for community, you get a carrot, and then you can later use those carrots to get stuff. Basically they invented a currency that’s only valid in their community, and rather than just issuing coins, they’re doing everything digitally.

Now a brief bit about the technology

This digital system uses something called the “blockchain”, which is just a MASSIVE file living on hundreds (thousands?) of computers around the world. This file is like a bank ledger: a record of things that happened. Think of it like a text file:

<span style="color:#323232;">Bob gave Sarah €1.50
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Sarah gave Alex €2.00
</span><span style="color:#323232;">...
</span>

Now imagine that it’s hundreds of millions of lines long, and every time anyone in the world gives anyone money, that list gets a little bit longer.

“But how do you make sure that people don’t start tinkering with the ledger?” you might say? "I could say “Alex gives me €1000000”. Well the files are kept in sync by this protocol where all participating computers do complex math to prove that they haven’t edited anything. Everyone else does the same math, and so everyone’s results should be the same. If your math is different, you’re ignored. This is why transactions can take as much as a few hours or even days to go through and gobble a shittone of electricity. Awesome.

This is basically where Bitcoin came from.

After that was a thing, a bunch of other nerds got together and built Ethereum (same tech, different computers doing the work, so it’s a different ledger), which uses the same technology. Ethereum however introduced this thing called “smart contracts” though, which are tiny programs that are baked into the chain (ie. they codified into this Great Big File That Everyone Has so they can’t be changed). Smart contracts are simple instructions:

<span style="color:#323232;">If Bob gives Sarah €1.50, Sarah then owns this: 1234567890
</span>

That 1234567890 relates to something in the real world, most famously a URL, which is where you get those NFTs that everyone was crazy about for a few months. Bob can give Sarah $1,000,000 and this would enshrine that Sarah owns https://somwhere.ca/picture-of-cat.jpg and then she can go around and say “I ‘own’ this picture”. Then one day that website takes the picture down and Sarah realises that she paid a million dollars for a record in a text file.

Each transaction on a blockchain (Ethereum, Bitcoin, whatever) costs money, which you pay in that chain’s currency, and that’s where this all starts to make sense. If I can get you to buy my “magic internet money”, then I’m selling you that currency for actual money.

So, back to your question about this commune project.

Putting on my “trust the person first, but only once” hat, it might not be a scam. The website certainly makes it look like they want to build a Solarpunk enclave. Maybe they’ve opted for a convoluted financial system 'cause they’ve been drinking the same kool-aid as all those crypto-bros out there trying to sell me their latest fake internet money. Maybe this made sense to them rather than issuing metal coins or even just maintaining a PostgreSQL database publicly. Either way, it’s a dumb idea and totally unnecessary. If you do decide to participate, watch for the moment they try to force you to buy their tokens with real money.

Also, you probably haven’t seen the definitive take-down of blockchain technology yet. It’s long but solidly the best piece of criticism of the tech I’ve seen.

Full disclosure: I bought into Bitcoin way back when it was cheap 'cause I was fascinated by the techology. Then I learnt how it actually worked, and how it absolutely cannot scale to be anything useful, so I just held onto the coins I had. I cashed out to the tune of about €40k. I absolutely would not recommend “investing” this this stuff. The domain is ripe with scammers and the project has no legs. It’s long past the point of experimentation and is now at the stage of trying to drag more suckers in. Don’t be that sucker.

schmorpel, 2 months ago

I appreciate you taking the time to write this up.

I used to have some Bitcoin before I understood how it really worked. Got out because all the scammers before I understood how it really worked. Now as I get involved in community projects, and crypto stuff creeps up everywhere, I feel like I have to understand what’s going on in the background (the environmental issues, the pointlessness of it) to help others not fall for it.

x_cell, 2 months ago

I have not read the entire PDF, but it seems to be at best a new version of the Zeitgeist Movement with more anarchist flavor, and at worse a pyramid scheme disguising itself as the former.

There simply isn’t a good reason to use crypto for this kind of project, except if you want to make ir look technically advanced. I tend to be very skeptical if this.