…or Thunder, which is very similar to Liftoff. I use them pretty much interchangeably. Both are built with Flutter, have similar UX and performance and they work on both Android and iOS.
I’ve tried thunder, and the UI looks really good, but for some reason when I try to scroll up on a feed the whole list starts shaking, almost as if the posts on the top of the list are changing size.
I feel like ads in lemmy would be a hard to implement thing, it would need to be done on the instance level… and people would just jump ship to another instance that didn’t have ads. it’s possible that it could post ads as posts that get federated but it sounds like an amazing way to potentially get your instance defederated in concern that it’s going to devolve to constant spam.
I mean, right now, yeah. But these instances use resources, which means they’re not free. Someone needs to cover the bill. I remember when YouTubers were put on blast when they started running ads and now it’s normal.
Or there might be instances that are specific paid and that’s known. Like an OnlyLemmy or something.
I got it for 15. Is it expensive for ad removal? Yes. Is it too expensive? No, for me personally no. I wanted to support the dev and I did it. Also It’s the only app I am going to use until Lemmy is no more.
That’s how ad removal for literally every app in existence works. The ads aren’t some kind of natural disaster that I’m paying the developer to “fight” lmao
It doesn’t feels like a choice in the modern world. It is either awful experience with shit ads or normal experience with paying. Is it that hard to understand people?
It would be a lot better if it was a true donation, since Lemmy itself doesn’t have ads. The developer also has very minimal fees to cover, so it makes no sense to add ads ontop of a free service and have a steep price to remove it (yes, 20+ dollars for an app toconly remove ads is steep, look around at other app prices). This was not the case for Sync on Reddit, it was a lot cheaper.
It just seems unnecessarily greedy by the developer
how does it compare ? I’ve been using Sync for years but I’ll gladly ditch any service that’s doesn’t align with my values provided I have an alternative
So far it’s pretty great, it has a few minor bugs in it and some features that could be added but looks like it has an active developer so not really an issue
Y’all are ridiculous. $20 is less than the median hourly wage in the US for both men and women, even worst case scenario you’re earning $7.25 an hour so almost 3 hours of work to pay for ad free Sync. I challenge you to make a better app in those same 3 hours so you don’t need to pay for it.
Not only are you paying for the app as it is now, you’re paying for years if not DECADES of updates too. All done by ONE GUY.
If you don’t like it, don’t use it. Stop character shaming the dev for trying to make an honest living creating an app a LOT of people (including myself) wanted.
It’s more expensive than the upgrade was for Reddit, but it’s a smaller market and you pay more for a niche product. I don’t have a problem with him getting paid for a good product.
I would like to point out that @ljdawson has been very forward to the LW team and he has our full support. And while Lemmy itself doesn’t have ads and Lemmy World is running on donations and volunteers that doesn’t mean that every developer should be forced to do charity-work. This is his full-time job and he provided plenty of choices for those who don’t want to pay or who don’t want to pay the full price for Ultra. If that’s not enough, nobody is forcing you to do anything.
It baffles me the amount of pushback the $2 a month is getting. I guess it says alot about the demographic browsing Lemmy…I’m happy to support the dev. For the amount of time I’ve used on sync it’s 100% worth every penny.
I can’t post or search on the app yet… It’s objectively the worst Lemmy app currently. I loved Sync for Reddit, but charging more for a product missing basic features is questionable.
Yeah, I trust the business model where their reputation depends on keeping my data private an order of magnitudes more than the business model that is literally selling it.
If that’s your mentality it shouldn’t matter whether the software is paid or free as in beer. I’m generally in that group, but I’m pretty pragmatic about using some closed source software when it’s non-critical to my life…
A Lemmy app where tons of alternative clients exist and everyone I’m doing is more or less public anyways… Yeah that doesn’t need to be free software.
Ditto. I used to be a big Sync fan and used it for years as my primary mobile client for Reddit until 8-10 months or so ago when the dev did a 'fuck off and be unable to be contacted while something in the app breaks' break, which led to a bunch of ads appearing despite paying for no ads (and according to people on the subreddit at the time it was not a one time occurrence lol). I switched that day to Boost and didn't go back, but I was looking forward to trying out Sync for Lemmy when it released.
All the privacy and pricing concerns the last 24 hours have brought forth does not make me wanna even touch the app lol. I'm not paying that much money to fucking browse a glorified forum on my phone (specially when there's many other options).
Voyager is fantastic IMO. wefwef.app , it is a web app, it will even put am icon for itself on your phone so it feels just like a regular app. Works really great, and is really fast.
While liftoff was the only third party I liked, I still think it was pretty unimpressive. It ran ok and that’s about it. Features were lacking, aesthetics are bad, some glitches. For me the $20 or whatever it is for sync is worth it. I’ve used reddit since 2012 and browsed exclusively on my phone, swapping between relay and sync. If you average that cost out, even considering the $5 or whatever it was to get rid of ads on Reddit, it’s basically nothing. The usage tracking is pretty shitty though.
EDIT: Ok I just saw the lifetime price for ultra, damn wtf lol. Again, averaging that cost over the ten years I’ve used the app means it’s still a good deal but fuck upfront that’s a lot lmao
I’ll just wait, they are usable enough. If you want the Lemmy experience to improve, donate $5 or $20 for Lemmy (in-browser) UI development, which is still default for most devices and it very much sucks. (Part of it is lack of support for anything like cross-domain cookies in browser technology that would store what your home instance is so that you would be always redirected to browse from home but even without it there are problems.)
Okay, I won’t push you from Sync. But if you have the money to remove its ads, please also consider supporting Lemmy directly or indirectly (Mozilla, among other things, funded the effort to find and patch TootRoot before it became a problem). If you don’t want to just donate, switching to Mozilla VPN will also help.
Yeah I’ve been using a lot of the available apps and while I had my favorites (Summit and Liftoff) there has always been little quirks that I’ve just been dealing with. The moment Sync hit my device it’s like I’m back to my reddit experience for the last decade. I’ll still keep an eye on the other apps, because I very much prefer and try to support open source developers. But I just can’t force a subpar experience on myself.
The Summit dev has been extremely responsive and has added in a few features I requested on a quick turnaround. They also happen to be out of town on a work trip this week so the timing probably sucks for them. And as I’m typing this I’m remembering that ones not even open source 🤦♂️.
Not the person you replied to but I don’t evaluate app prices in a vacuum. First I think of what paying actually gets me (e.g. no ads), then I consider how it compares to alternatives both free and paid. A paid app has to provide some value over a free app and an expensive app has to provide some value over cheaper apps. Furthermore if an app is priced such that I can buy 3-4 other apps while also being more expensive than any individual apps I’ve previously purchased then it gives me some pause.
There are a lot of other apps for Lemmy. Some are not as polished as Sync – but some are. And none (that I know of, on Android) are ad supported. Most are open source and 100% free.
This is a money grab. People were so excited for Sync that they don’t want to call it a money grab. But that’s what it is.
🙄 it’s a small dev, who got shut out of the previous customer base they’d built up, and now has to rebuild with fewer customers (and fewer potential customers at least short term).
If your job lost 70% of its customers, I bet you’d be begging your boss to raise prices to avoid a 70% pay cut.
It’s not a money grab. It drives me crazy how much stuff people say is a “money grab”, “theft”, “a scam”, “predatory”, etc. Asking for money isn’t malicious, neither is asking for more money than you personally think is reasonable/makes sense for your finances, and neither is offering a freemium ad supported app (which is better than nothing if you’re not willing to pay with money).
Edit: and sorry if that sounds overly aggressive, but you definitely struck a nerve/peeve as of late. It just seems like everyone wants to be as dramatic as possible lately.
I see your point. And you don’t deserve to be down voted, as it’s reasonable.
I do think he’s pricing it a bit steep for what the market can bear. Maybe not. I hope he gets as much as possible. I just know that I am priced out and will continue to use Connect.
I’m sorry to hear that you’re priced out, and I think it’s fine to give pricing feedback like that. I just am sick of everything being “outrage” where someone “dares” to try to make some money in exchange for their effort.
I both wish you a better financial situation and that a shorter term compromise arrives where you can afford the app, or that you continue to be satisfied with Connect. One of the beauties of the fediverse is that it’s not an all or nothing thing, there are other clients and other ways to support folks and the community (even just being a friendly person, so props there).
That’s a farce; it happens all the time, revenue stops increasing from growing the customer base, so the prices are raised on the existing customer base to cover costs and keep things operational. Why do you think Netflix still isn’t $8.99, and password sharing is no longer permitted?
If you definitely know you can’t make enough money on 30% of 1,000,000 people, but you can make enough money charging 10% of 1,000,000 people a higher rate, you’re going to do that … because it’s your only option. There are diminishing returns to picking up new customers with lower prices.
I think that asking to be paid for your work is totally fine (albeit I myself made my lemmy app completely free and opensource, simply because its just my hobby project), but its a rather different story when you provide app for open source, nonprofit venture-free platform and start to inject ads and trackers into it. Its goes against the entire idea of free decentralised platform and makes it closer to profit-focused app like reddit/threads/etc imo
Given how much time I spent on Sync with Reddit, I imagine the ultra one-time price ($99) will end up being a dollar per hour in a few months and just go down from there.
A dollar per hour for entertainment is generally a good deal to me.
I agree. While $20 could still be seen as reasonable - even though making it one of the more expensive apps, thigh I’m willing to go for it if Sync continues development -, the asking price of $100 for the lifetime ultra is insane. I’m not aware of any other app that is this expensive. Of course, you could argue there’s subscription apps out there that don’t even have a lifetime model - e.g. Adobe, Microsoft Office -, But these provide considerably more value as well and are huge corporations.
My feeling is - and I don’t have facts to prove it - that the developers of the large reddit apps (esp. Apollo) simply became used to the money making machine and want to squeeze as much as possible out of it.
While in the end it is entirely up to them, as there’s open source and free alternatives out there, I’m not too fond of this behavior.
I get that there’s inflation and all… but there are no Imgur API fees to deal with like there were with Reddit (images upload right to the Lemmy instance).
And this is exactly why I bought the app without thinking. I paid $1.99 for Reddit Sync in 2012 and have been using it since then. I consider buying the new app payment for all the value I’ve gotten out of the app and the developers work over the past 11 years.
And that included a few features that are now ultra only like tagging users. (and maybe more, that was the one I used and noticed is missing from pro now)
To be fair, you paid once 7 years ago but the developer didn’t stop working on the app and didn’t make you pay for the upgrades they implemented if anything they have discovered the original price was too low for long term use.
I paid a similar price to that over a decade ago and don’t consider this price to be totally unreasonable given they are full time on this now and will need to keep updating the app as lemmy gets updated.
We also have so many alternatives that it isn’t an issue if people want to use something that is free. We are in the wild west of lemmy apps due to the Reddit fallout, things will quieten down eventually and a preferred few apps will come out on top.
I paid the $30 for Lifetime Ultra after 7 years of using Dev/Pro just to support. But this new pricing is simply insane. I get the feeling LJ quit his day job to rush Sync for Lemmy out or something, because historically he never seemed to do this kind of thing.
that’s us inflation maybe but LJ lives in the UK and I can tell you it’s a lot worse than that for us the bank of england says a certain inflation rate that isn’t that high like 30% over the last year but that’s a lie it feels like the cost of everything including food has at least tripled over the last year or two maybe more sync at its end was a fiver and hadn’t gone up in a few years so if you triple that you get 15 which yeah is below 20 by a quarter but S4R lasted 10 years before it died only cause of reddit I don’t think that’s a bad price to pay for a lifetime of adless sync sync is ljs job so it’s only natural the price is gonna go up with food going up this much 20 quid for 10 years or more of updates for an app I use constantly isn’t a bad deal
I have read punctuation free text and it never bothered me it’s perfectly readable all of those examples you gave are intentionally ambiguous sentences if a sentence is ambiguous without punctuation it’s poorly written
Well, you used “us” and “us” close to one another, and one of them referred to the United States and the other was a pronoun. It took several reads to make sure I rewrote it correctly in my other comment. I am pretty sure you’re not being considerate about how “unambiguous” your sentences are without capitalisation & punctuation, and even if they were, they take significantly longer to read. As a person who became proficient in English as their second language, I am baffled by how frequently natives botch their national heritage.
I think they are using shitty speech-to-text software that does not do punctuation.
FTFY:
That’s US inflation, maybe – but LJ lives in the UK and I can tell you: it’s a lot worse than that for us. The Bank of England says a certain inflation rate that isn’t that high (like 30% over the last year) but that’s a lie. It feels like the cost of everything, including food, has at least tripled over the last year or two, maybe more. Sync at its end was £5 and hadn’t gone up in a few years, so if you triple that you get £15 – which, yeah, is below £20 by a quarter – but Sync4Reddit lasted 10 years before it died only ‘cause of Reddit. I don’t think that’s a bad price to pay for a lifetime of adless Sync. Sync is LJ’s job so it’s only natural the price is gonna go up with food going up this much. £20 for 10 years or more of updates for an app I use constantly isn’t a bad deal.
The real reason is the development cost stay the same, but the pool of potential buyers is 100x less for Sync for Lemmy compared to Sync for Reddit. With only about 100,000 monthly active users on Lemmy, even if 1% of them bought the app at $20, the dev would only net about $14,000 (after 30% play store fee). The dev himself even said he’ll lower the price as the number of active Lemmy users grow.
I think a lot of the outrage is the people that used to use the app on Reddit but have been priced out by this strategy. It’s very disappointing and, if my time on Reddit has tought me anything, people are very quick to vent the frustrations by posting.
The healthy thing is to just find an option in the right price bracket, that’s how I found Voyager.
Simple solution. Get DNS66 from the F-droid site (not the Play Store version that wants a subscription). That takes care of the ads in all my apps. It inserts itself like a VPN, filtering all Internet traffic, blocking the ad servers.
Mullvad VPN also includes the ability to block all ads at the DNS level, so if you don’t already have a VPN (or if you’re not happy with your current one), I highly recommend it. Great VPN, great speed, great company.
Mozilla VPN uses Mullvad’s servers so it offers pretty much the same QoS but some of it goes to a non-profit that develops and supports Firefox, funds white hats finding and patching bugs in the Fediverse. and fights for an open web.
Hilarious watching people complain about an app that gives you a CHOICE to buy it if you want to. I really hope the dev is laughing at you guys with me because this is some really low IQ shit.
I think the developer should have just made the app ad-free, and charged for features people will want.
It’s not a feature to remove ads. It’s just normal. At least for many of us Linux users, we never see ads since we have so many ways to combat them.
But yes, if Lemmy starts to become very popular, it will pull in everyone who uses windows and has ads and shit in their face all day. They are used to it. Maybe they will pay.
So you would rather have micro transaction/dlc for various features… Instead of having a free path and a paid path…
Honestly all these hardcore, zealot Linux users all bent out of shape because god forbid they pay for someone’s work while acting like they’re on the high road, really makes Linux users look bad. I’ve come across way too many posts about yet another person triggered because OMG, it wasn’t just free and the dev can’t survive off good vibes and a ‘donate’ button no one would click.
For all the people mad sync isn’t free, how many of the Foss projects have you donated too. A fiver one time a decade ago to one project means nothing. Going to guess I’ll get more downvotes than people showing proof the donate, regularly.
I bought sync. Bought it here and bought it on Reddit many years ago. With the amount of time I used it, probably came out to less than a penny per hour of use.
It seems you are grouping me in with previous people you have talked to. And I hate micro transactions or dlc.
I would simply lower the prices. That’s it. I think people should pay for quality software, including search engines and email providers that are high quality. I do that of course myself. It’s the only way to get away from the ad/tracking model we have today.
Honestly I think we all need to relax. Lemmy is a niche app that’s rising, and it’s one guy. I paid for ultra since it was cheaper than the pay for no ads option.
$29AUD or whatever it was per year for ultra is literally paying a dev once a year for their work, and to keep it updated and build features.
The outrage is really ridiculous considering how quickly the app was built, how decent the experience is and the realities of the real world right now.
Pay the cash, you’re not going to remember it by the time you’re paid next. For the job you did, producing something. Like this guy did.
The price is very reasonable if you realize the economy of scale is not there yet. There is only about 100,000 monthly active Lemmy users right now. Even if 1% of those users bought the app at $20, the dev only net ~$14,000 for working on his app full time. The calculus will surely different if Lemmy have 10x more active users which will allow the dev to lower the app pricing while still sustaining himself.
So you’re basically saying wait until the lemmy user base grows and see if the dev drops the price. That would lead to a lot of the OG buyers getting angry.
They shouldn’t get mad if what they say about gladly supporting the sync developer is true. I meant, isn’t it weird to get mad when something you bought actually got lower price a few years in the future? Like buying a game for $60 at launch and then some patient gamers bought them for $10 a few years later. Why angry at that?
“Adding” ads to a FOSS service is pretty sinister especially if it only cost $3.99/year to remove them from the Sync for Reddit app.
Lemmy could use some white hat bug hunters to find security vulnerabilities before malicious actors do, like Mozilla helping patch Mastodon’s TootRoot.
Reddit had considerably more users when Sync was created- so smaller amount per person over larger user base would pay for the bill.
With Lemmy, user base isn’t there yet to create that same economies of scale - so to pay for the dev’s time - each person would need to pay a larger amount.
80% of the app is the same. It’s not like he spent years creating a new app from scratch. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve compensation but I feel like he’s being a bit gougey in this situation.
I’m pretty sure he had to rewrite all of the code related to network and the API, and that’s not little work. Thats weeks worth of work including testing
@1ird@chargingtriceratops Regional pricing hasn't been set up yet, but he plans to make a single time purchase option in the future, and set up Regional pricing
You can’t compare Reddit and Lemmy. They are different with a different model. Lemmy rely on donation. Reddit has ads and investors.
The dev of Sync did money with Reddit but Reddit had a source of revenue.
Lemmy relying on donation doesn’t have this source of revenue. This is why splitting the revenue of Sync between Lemmy’s devs, instances and Sync’s dev is fair.
If someone donate to the Lemmy’s devs and/or instances, this person allows the sync’s dev to make money on this donation. This isn’t fair.
The sync model with Lemmy is predatory at best and parasitic at least.
They need to earn more than the dev of sync who don’t split the revenue with the Lemmy dev and the instances. The split of the revenues is fair for everyone. Lemmy devs, instances and Sync dev receive something for their work.
He is literally making money on the back of the people donating. Without these donator his business doesn’t make any sense and wouldn’t exist.
Same purchase was a lot cheaper when it was Reddit.
Reddit already ran ads, so having an app who ran ads of its own was fine.
Monoteizing a FOSS project in a way that doesn’t help the maintainers of that project may not be seen as ethical.
Having a subscription for features that don’t cost anything to serve (highlighting users can be done locally for instance) might feel like an artificial limitation to drive sales.
The fact that it launched with both a transaction (not a small one, as it costs more than any non-professional app I bought) and a subscription service in literally the first beta of the app.
Combination of these with all the alternatives being all-free (both in price and as in freedom) might make people think few times before paying for this app.
Personally, I really dislike the price, find subscription meh but I absolutely adore Sync’s UX. But honestly, without few things changing, I don’t see myself recommending Sync to friends.
I, and many others it seems, think the Sync for Reddit app was priced almost too low. Only a few dollars for an app isn’t sustainable for the dev in the long run. I believe people using reddit sync with ads actually supported the dev more than people buying the app.
The reddit API was free, so it technically didn’t have ads if you used some ad-free (FOSS) 3rd party app. Sync for lemmy isn’t any different in that sense.
Sure, the lemmy devs and instances also need money to run the service. People are free to and should donate to them as well. Sync for lemmy, however, isn’t costing instances any more than FOSS apps.
The rest of your points are just personal preference, really. If you like the app, buy it or use it with ads. If you don’t like the app, use something else. Honestly surprised by how much hate an app no one is forcing people to use is getting.
For the amount of hours a week I spent in Sync for Reddit and the price I paid then for removing ads, I feel that 20 euros is cheap to remove ads in Sync for Lemmy and would have paid more.
However I understand the price might feel steep up front for new users. An initial trial without ads for a short while might be a solution, where users only start to see ads after using it for a bit so they can test run the app without being disturbed by ads.
Yeah, if Relay showed up with an app for KBin and wanted $30, I'd give it in a heartbeat, but being a long time user, I'd also feel like it's partially back pay for using it for years after only paying like $4
As it is, I'm really looking forward to Artemis launching and will probably do an equal donation of at least that much to its dev and to Ernest (/KBin social admin and /KBin dev).
The /KBin PWA isn't bad for what it is, but god damn do I miss using a proper app. At least y'all on Lemmy have options!
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