TIL there is an fediverse alternative to Discord

About Matrix Matrix is an open protocol for decentralised, secure communications.

Matrix Manifesto We believe:

People should have full control over their own communication. People should not be locked into centralised communication silos, but instead be free to pick who they choose to host their communication without limiting who they can reach. The ability to converse securely and privately is a basic human right. Communication should be available to everyone as a free and open, unencumbered, standard and global network.

Rokin,

I like Matrix but it’s far from Discord right now

Silkscreen,

The good thing is that Discord is actually kinda bad when compared to Guilded and Slack. It won’t be hard to catch up to Discord, since most of the features they add are fluff and not really needed.

What we need are the more robust features that Guilded has.

half,

That’s a good thing. Discord is chugging its way through the last half of the Web 2.0 service to social media pipeline. It’s a VC-funded multimedia enterprise extended around a novel technology core optimized for its original service offering, real-time voice/text. Nobody is immune to bloat, but because Matrix is a protocol standard, not an app, users have the option of sticking with minimal clients and servers that won’t (necessarily) get destroyed by feature creep.

If you’ve tried Element and thought “ah, slow Discord,” maybe have a scroll through matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/. I don’t want to get off topic but all my favorite software is standard/specification-based.

randint,

I don’t think Matrix feels slow because the app is slow. In my experience, I have tried 3 homeservers (community.rs, matrix.im, and mozilla.org (hosted by modular), and there was a really really big performance gap. I’m not gonna say which one is which, but sending message on one (the time between you hit send and the circled checkmark appears) usually takes less than 1 seconds, another averages at maybe 1.5 seconds, the other often takes more than 5 seconds. Choosing a performant homeserver could really impact your experience with Matrix, and it’s sad that people can’t really know how performant a server is unless they create an account on it and try it out themselves.

ninchuka,

it also depends on the size of rooms your sending messages in

Xttweaponttx,

Yeah man so true. Matter of time before somehow we have to but loot crates to earn minutes

Rodeo,

I loved Discord back in 2015/2016. I hate it now.

Anomalous_Llama,

Me and my boys have been using discord for years now to chat while we game and maybe stream what we’re doing just to each other.

Discord has added features and shit I suppose but I haven’t changed how I use it at all since I first started.

Rodeo,

Part of the reason I hate it now is they refuse to support Linux. In fact their support in general is pretty crappy.

kameecoding,

I mean I am not a fan of discord, but it’s just an Electron app, like Spotify, isn’t it? meaning you can just open it in a browser you probably have running anyways

JusnJusn,

I got Discord installed on Ubuntu just fine, what doesn’t work about it?

MrShelbySan,

It works but they won’t provide support if it breaks. There was a bug with screen sharing sound on Linux (and maybe macOS as well?) for a LONG time, like years, before it was eventually fixed.

On macOS they also took their sweet ass time with the Apple Silicon version, when the regular version was broken as hell on the shiny new M1 Macs.

They only really care about « gAmERs » which to then means Windows.

apprehensively_human,

There was a bug with screen sharing sound on Linux (and maybe macOS as well?) for a LONG time, like years, before it was eventually fixed.

Wait, this was fixed? I haven’t been bothering with screen sharing because I thought this was still an issue.

MrShelbySan,

Last time I checked it was. I don’t know if a new bug was introduced since however.

Rodeo,

On top of what the other guy said, it just doesn’t behave like a Linux app. It doesn’t respect the package manager, if there’s a new version but the package hasn’t been updated yet, the app just refuses to launch. Like the developers literally won’t even let you use the app if it’s not the current version.

It’s also a electron app, so it doesn’t respect the window manager either. It has to have it’s own special window decorations that don’t match, and when I used i3 (tiling window manager) it was very difficult to get it to work normally in my setup like every other app did with no effort.

Finally, it asks for super user access! Why in the name of unholy fuck is a userland app demanding administrative powers on my computer?

JusnJusn,

Funny you say that, I actually just noticed that today. I tried launching it and it refused to let me use it until I updated. It was super annoying.

Mereo,

Matrix is a great beginning… But it is still FAR from Discord right now.

housepanther,

Thank you for giving me another federated service to check out! 😁

Fuzzypyro,

I would say it’s a lot more than discord. Putting it that way doesn’t give it as much credit as it deserves. My favorite out of the laundry list of features and benefits is that you can synchronize your messaging across all platforms into a single interoperable client if your choosing. You can use a better standard while not having to bug others to switch.

d3Xt3r,

But does it have activity detection and screen sharing?

linearchaos,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

If you delve the bridges available, some support activity, some do not

KLISHDFSDF,
@KLISHDFSDF@lemmy.ml avatar

Try Mirotalk when you need simple screen sharing. It uses browser based tech so no server/app/plugin required. p2p.mirotalk.com

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Element does have screen sharing.

xaxl,

People say this but there are a few features, particularly robust voice chat, that it could use before any kind of mass adoption will happen.

ssorbom,

It integrates with jitsi, which is a fairly good tried and proven solution. Meanwhile, The matrix developers are working on their own implementation of voice and video that plays a bit nicer with their room permission system. For one to one conversations, there is a turn-based solution for voice and video.

xaxl,

own implementation of voice and video

This is what I’m referring to and am looking forward to trying it out once it’s ready.

linearchaos,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

I just had to go and look this up to get more details

matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/

Looks like you need to be hosting your own server, then you can install plugins for separate services. Very cool…

I’d love to tie together a few different systems I’m using but I worry that the bridges will break every time a platform does an update

Have long have you been using it? How’s your experience been? What bridges are you using?

fmstrat,

You don’t have to host your own, just join an instance with bridges. That being said, running your own is easy and nice with docker, including the bridges.

cousinofjah,
@cousinofjah@lemmy.world avatar

Where would be a good starting point to check out a list of instances with these bridges? And how safe are they?

randint,

By the way, if you join an instance without these bridges, you could always search for bridges on other servers

GlowingLantern,

If you want to use a paid service from the developers, there’s Element One: https://element.io/element-one

cousinofjah,
@cousinofjah@lemmy.world avatar

hmm, I wonder if there’s a way for me to host my own matrix server and do the bridging myself, like a docker container or something.

GlowingLantern,

There’s an Ansible playbook that allows you to install everything easily, but I don’t know how difficult the maintenance is. It’s definitely possible to self-host Matrix with bridges.

eco_game,

They actually link to a guide right on their website: github.com/beeper/self-host

The beeper client only works with the official beeper services, but you can use other apps like Element and FluffyChat with your own server.

Pika,
@Pika@lemmy.world avatar

this is why I never got into matrix. I don’t actually know how lol, the page doesn’t list servers available and i don’t really want to just spin up my own just for myself

yamasaur,

Sign up for beeper and all the hosting is done for you

linearchaos,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

sadly they’re on restricted signup

randint,

Well, due to the nature of the Fediverse, no one can reliably list all the server in existence. They can merely list the most popular ones, much like how you can’t list all the Lemmy instances. A list I used to pick my server is joinmatrix.org/servers/ , though you might want to look up the server’s reputation before joining. Please do check it out! I believe that someone on Lemmy has a much higher probability of liking Matrix.

Pika,
@Pika@lemmy.world avatar

I apperently had tried element out using a matrix.org account at some because when I went on the client I was already logged in, I vaugly remember it but it didn’t really give a great first impression.

anyway, I decided to look around it again to give it another shot, I really don’t think it’s a good idea to relate it to Discord, the documentation itself says it’s more similar to IRC than Discord. It lacks fairly basic features that you would expect to see in a current day chat service, for permissions example: they do have basic permissions and they’ve stated that more coming but there’s no way to fine tune them for example if you want to give the ability to delete message you need to give the ability for every permission under the below the redact message permission (which is hard set at perm level 50 if I remember right). This in my opinion is actually worse than IRC in that matter, as with IRC I could fine tune someone to have Channel topic editing permissions and the ability to hide that they are there but I didn’t necessarily need to give them disconnect or Banning permissions at the same time and visa versa.

I’m sure it’s perfect for some pieple but, I’ll stick with modern day implementations till they give a bit more control, but I’m pretty certain with the current spec it’s not possible at this time

lieuwex,

Beeper is a paid Matrix server that neatly integrates with many other chat services using a custom GUI specifically designed for integration with third party apps.

ninchuka,

There’s a free tier but there will be a paid tier eventually

yamasaur,

Just sign up for beeper they host all major bridges including imessage and then if you need additional bridges you can self host them

tostiman,
@tostiman@sh.itjust.works avatar

Very interesting

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

Ok but do they have a sound board for voice calls

_spiffy,
@_spiffy@lemmy.ca avatar

I would love to switch to matrix. But discord has a lotnof features matrix doesn’t even the half baked Linux client supports. But the bigger problem would be convincing my friends to move over.

fmstrat,

You don’t have to. I have Discord bridged to Matrix, along with Whatsapp, Signal, and IRC.

ShroOmeric,

I keep reading this but… I can’t understand how?
Is there a guide for dumb people or something? Or do I need to be an expert to manage that? Everytime I try to look into it I get extremely confused in a matter of minutes…

ninchuka,

you can use free public bridges like t2bot.io/discord/ where you invite it to the discord server and to a matrix room then run commands to link them, if you want DM’s you’ll need to either host it yourself or pay a provider to host it for you and it’ll have to be a puppeted bridge which is against discord ToS just FYI

ShroOmeric,

Ok, thanks for taking the time to help but it is still beyond my level of comfort… 🤷‍♂️

barryamelton,

it’s complex to make dozens of technologies work together under an umbrella (Matrix). Particularly when those technologies have a vetted interest in not being interoperable.

There are companies that provide an offering with Matrix, e.g www.beeper.com

_spiffy,
@_spiffy@lemmy.ca avatar

But I want to stream my screen, or participate in watch parties. Do these features work with bridges?

odium,

It doesn’t, but you can switch between the two. I assume you don’t use the share screen feature every single time you use discord. You can use discord for when you need that feature and use matrix all the other times.

SeeJayEmm,
@SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org avatar

That sounds tedious when the thing you’re currently using already does all the things you need.

I understand that Matrix isn’t Discord, and I’m not saying it should be. But it would be nice if there was an actual foss, federated, 1:1 alternative.

eltimablo,

Does PeerTube support streaming? If so, it seems like a no-brainer to add support for it to Matrix.

pineapplelover,

Revolt.chat is a good alternative

ninchuka,

not federated and no encryption currently

kzhe,

Not really, there’s no categories and it’s just not Discord

Molecular0079,

Categories? What do you mean by that?

kzhe,

Discord can sort channels in various categories rather than all in one list for organization.

Molecular0079,

Matrix has the “spaces” concept.

kzhe,

I know, but the channels can’t be separated into categories.

Molecular0079,

You just create sub-spaces.

meisme,

Matrix has spaces that are just like Discord servers if that’s what you mean

Spruce1538, (edited )

I tried their most popular and featureful client(element) but it looks like their video calling still relies on jitsi which has very subpar screensharing support. And it seems that it’s because jitsi is for video conferencing type stuff so when I put an issue up about it, they didnt care that e.g. it was not good above 5fps

trafficnab,

Being able to show off a game or watch a movie with friends (without needing to mess with Virtual Audio Cables so there's no weird echo from their voices) in as little as 2 mouse clicks is the single killer feature Discord has that will make it incredibly hard for me to replace

sep,

The free open public jitsi do get bogged down now and then. And based on where you are located, can be far away. I run my own jitsi instance, so do not have that problem.

Also element is working on a built in call function that do not use jitsi. But i have not tested it. element.io/blog/element-call-beta-3/

MangoPenguin,
@MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I would say it’s more a Slack alternative, Discord does one click screen sharing, streaming, voice rooms, has a soundboard, and other stuff that’s fantastic for friend groups.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

I thought Mumble was the better alternative for Discord, at least regarding voice chat? www.mumble.info

There’s also Revolt - revolt.chat

RheingoldRiver,

damn Revolt looks unfortunately similar to Reddit, I misread your comment at first haha

pineapplelover,

The only real Discord alternative is revolt.chat

It’s not e2ee but it is FOSS and you can self host. Also, unlike Discord they actually have discriminators

notsofunnycomment,

Last time I checked it, it was said to be very buggy. How is it doing now?

pineapplelover,

I have not had any bugs in all the times I’ve used it

MeowdyPardner,
MeowdyPardner avatar

Someone needs to hook revolt up to a matrix homeserver. I'm kinda surprised there still isn't like a discord UI clone matrix client along the lines of how elk.zone is a twitter UI inspired frontend for mastodon. Having not used discord much I'm not sure what's really missing, maybe it's just the stricter adherence to spaces on the left bar and the lack of non-current-space-related channels listed above the current space's channel list.

Tbh I kinda hate how discord works (and how impossible it feels managing being in 30-40 servers and figuring out which server that doot-doot sound came from when at least 10-15 at a minimum have unread badges even 30 seconds after I mark everything everywhere as read), but I do love the look and feel.

hitagi,

I’m kinda surprised there still isn’t like a discord UI clone matrix client

Check out cinny.in. I use this on my desktop browser and it looks similar to the Discord UI.

sooperdooper,

Thanks for mentioning this, looks perfect

norawibb,

I’d use cinny for sure if they supported calls and video like element

ninchuka,

I think the plan is to start work on that once element call which is native group calls gets merged into the spec

KLISHDFSDF,
@KLISHDFSDF@lemmy.ml avatar

It doesn’t federate though. So if you stand your own “discord” server up, you can’t message anyone and have to ask people to join it. Matrix allows you to not just set up your own server but also interact with everyone else’s servers so you’re not isolated. Revolt is nice, but you’re, like discord, limiting yourself to a single instance who has access to everyone’s data.

ninchuka,

yeah thats the main reason I’ve not given it a try myself, I dont want to have to make an account for every server if lots of projects decide to host it them selves

Mignochrono,

I actually been hearing a lot about matrix recently…I someone needs to do live a viral video about it to make it be standard

observantTrapezium,
@observantTrapezium@lemmy.ca avatar

Matrix was introduced a few months before Discord was launched in 2015, so better say that Discord is the proprietary and centralized alternative to Matrix 😜

DrQuint,

Discord was always a Slack clone from the start, so this goes further back.

zephr_c,

There is certainly some overlap in what Discord and Matrix can do, and personally I like Matrix about a thousand times better, but it’s not really a direct replacement. That’s not a criticism. I don’t really even want Matrix to be more like Discord. I just think presenting Matrix as a Discord replacement kinda sells it short and is likely to leave people looking for an alternative to Discord disappointed.

Hypersapien,

What are the differences between Matrix and Discord?

ssorbom,

First, it’s federated, meaning that different instances of discord can talk to each other, much like Lemmy.

Second, it allows for encryption. Matrix uses the same double ratchet algorithm present in signal.

Third, joining groups is optional. This is perhaps the biggest user interface difference between discord and matrix. Each conversation exists in a independent channel, or room as they are called. Rooms can be grouped together the way you would see in discord, but they usually exist independently of the groupings. Incidentally, matrix groups are called spaces. There are edge cases where rooms are not independent from spaces, but by and large it is not something most users will have to worry about.

Hypersapien,

But you interact with other people pretty much the same way? Text/voice/video chat?

ssorbom,

Yes. Matrix uses an integrated jitsi widget for voice and video. It is unfortunately not quite as polished as discord for voice and video, but it does work.

bouh,

Last time I tried, 3 years ago, jitsi was very much not ready. There were memory leaks, no sleep mode (one processor was fully used 100% of the time) and the video performances were bad (impossible to do a video conference with more than 3 people). How did it improved since then?

PorkrollPosadist,

On Discord, you cannot host your own server, and you cannot use any third party clients (without the threat of being banned).

You can host your own Matrix server, either on physical hardware, or a generic virtual machine you can rent from any number of ISPs. There are over a dozen compatible third-party clients (though many lack full feature coverage).

In summary, Discord is strictly a service. Matrix is a tool you can apply however you see fit.

sparr,

mattermost.com is the closest open source self-hostable alternative to Slack/Discord I’m familiar with

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