Back in the olden times, when I first got into personal computing, there were IBM PC's and IBM PC clones (amongst Commodore, Tandy, et al), then came the Apples and right off the bat they were proprietary (IBM tried mirroring this proprietary bullshit with microchanneling, which thankfully failed), and just like that I was an enemy of all things Apple and proprietary.
Clones could be upgraded simply and easily and everyone was making motherboards, hard drives, floppy drives, sound cards, ram, etc etc etc for clones, and only Apple was making Apple things for Appple.
In the 40 years since, absolutely nothing at all has changed, and I chalk it up to a lack of personal intelligence and self worth, whenever I run into, or see online, anyone who's bought into the apple universe in any way.
I was alive in those olden times and bought plenty of hardware components for my Macs. RAM, hard drives, peripherals, all from non-Apple suppliers, so I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that.
Clones could be upgraded simply and easily and everyone was making motherboards, hard drives, floppy drives, sound cards, ram, etc etc etc for clones, and only Apple was making Apple things for Appple
Exactly. For another example, see: D&D fiasco early this year. D&D has long been a bastion for 3rd party writers and homebrew creators. Both commercial and free to use. Hasbro (company owning D&D) tried to take D&D proprietary and impose insane restrictions on 3rd party creators. Seeing as the current edition of D&D is a LOT more functional with 3rd party content (their adventures are crap, and too few) this was insane. And the community rightly shit all over Hasbro so hard they not only withdrew their attempt to lock the game down, but consigned the current edition to a generous Creative Commons license they couldn't even attempt to undo.
If you look back or watch this Extra Credits video on the history, you can see the same attempt repeat over the decades. Again and again you see standards-compliant, open source, FOSS and similar products being exceedingly popular and spawning a host of new creative ventures and market competition. And it's always better for the specific environment and userbase.
That’s like saying foot fungus is a great investment because it’s hard to get rid of. Also you conveniently left off that longest support is often required because of cost cutting measures Apple loves to do. How many product recalls were there? And even then they sometimes make them so that no one fits the criteria.
It’s not hard to get rid of an iPhone at all. I could sell the device in my hand easily if I wanted to.
What are you even talking about? Cost cutting makes them support a phone longer? Supporting a phone longer costs them more money. Literally the antithesis of your claim.
There were 0 product recalls. You may be thinking of Samsung who recalled the Note 7 for exploding. The iPhone 4 antenna design flaw was known inside the retail return window and anyone could have returned it for a full refund. They otherwise offered a free case to everyone who elected to keep the phone (myself included). The first line of Samsung Galaxy GSM phones had a similar flaw if you cupped the bottom rear of the phone; the Vibrant model on T-mobile had an “ass” that stuck out that was easier to cause total network drop on then my iPhone 4 on AT&T, but Samsung did not offer a free case or mitigation.
All you have to do is go to Apple site and see number of recall programs currently active. The fact you don’t know about them or you are lying says a lot. But zero is not even close. Pretty much every laptop generation had an issue that had to be addressed one way or another. iPhones were a bit better but still frequent.
On another note if you want to finger point at any company for making a mistake, Samsung isn’t one. Number of affected Note7 devices was first of all small but even so Samsung gave EVERYONE new S7 Edge as a replacement for Note7. As opposed to Apple who sold refurbished devices to users as a part of replacement program.
My joke was that extended service programs were there as a result of poor quality… And yes it does cost them more to provide support but then again class action lawsuit costs more.
Also, it’s extremely ironic that Apple currently has recall program for MacBook Pro due to batteries posing fire risk, while you point out how Samsung was bad for risky batteries and claiming Apple had 0 recalls. You fanboys are a joke.
Ok, I misunderstood. I thought you were implying a much more narrow definition. Samsung has an extensive list of recalls too. Most tech companies do, or at least should. Many get away with flat out ignoring major issues. This is a sign of companies making things right, not a showing of how many problems they have. Apple has way more issues than this, as does Google (my phone probably couldn’t call 911 for several days. Glad I didn’t find out for sure). Samsung has had actually dangerous recalls. They have a line of Nvme drives that are all defective and they refuse to recall them. Western digital / sandisk has several too.
I’m not going to allow you to compare a literal exploading phone to anything else. That’s absurd and you should be embarrassed to bring that up.
Warranty replacements are almost always refurbished from every manufacturer. Refurbished Apple products typically have all new external parts for the record. MacBooks don’t for the record, but I’ve personally purchased refurbished iPads, iPhones, and apple TVs and they are indistinguishable from new visually. Samsung has a business program that does something similar. I’m not aware of they do this on the consumer level.
Your joke doesn’t make sense. They aren’t extending support because they screwed something up. They support all iPhones longer than Android makers. Only just recently are a few starting to approach similar longevity.
Posing a fire risk is different than multiple actual publicized incidents of Note 7s blowing up to the point where they are banned on airplanes. The vast majority of recalls are preventative. Samsung screwed the Note 7 up twice. Their initial fix didn’t work and then they scrapped the entire phone. It would have killed any other Android maker.
I’d wager that owning an iPhone is cheaper than a Samsung Galaxy or likely any premium Android.
An iPhone is typically getting 6 years of iOS versions, plus an additional 1-2 years of security updates. For instance, the iPhone X, announced in Fall 2017 was on latest iOS until iOS 17 comes in this month. iPhone 6S, released in Sep 2015, is still getting security updates.
If you are someone who runs their phone into the ground until the end of security updates, iPhone wins hands down. If you are someone who wants the latest and greatest, iPhone hold resale value like no other and its not even close.
Really apple? And they did all that mother nature bullshit with octavia spencer while it was europe who forced them to use a universal connector and stop polluting the world with useless pathetic cables
So, how do you sell this to a regular user? We’re probably getting new phones in this round and I want the Pro but still trying to sell that choice. My kid’s Mom has never used the data connector so how can I sell her on that as one of the features she wants?
Note on our weird situation but we have two teens and our pattern is to buy new, and give our 2-4 year old phones to the kids. For this to work, we really need to have identical phone models
I feel like not many people actually use the data port on their phones anymore, I know I haven’t used my android USB port for anything other than fast charging for I feel like 10 years. Do you even use the data connector on your phone?
I use it. I plug my phone into a dock and use it in desktop mode on occasion. I actually have an old phone running an FTP server with an external hard drive connected.
It does feel kind of spiteful. But honestly, it is surprisingly difficult to find USB 3 USB-C cables anyway. Most of them are USB 2 unless you spring for Thunderbolt cables.
I swear I have a USB C cable that charges faster oriented one way. I haven’t really proved it or anything but it really does feel like it. Maybe I’m crazy. Is it possible? It’s “normal” USB on the other side.
No they’re not? At least when I check amazon or any other online retailer, USB-C cables are almost always USB 3.0 or higher. Only the ultra cheap ones are not.
Frankly, who even uses the USB port on their phone for data transfers unless it's an emergency? I just stream media from my NAS using Navidrome and Jellyfin, use Syncthing to back up my photos and sync files I need, and mount the SMB shares I need to access. The eMMC and SD cards are slower than USB 3 speeds, anyway. Most SD cards don't even max out USB 2.
The only sensible real life use case for USB 3 for phones would be external monitors.
Transferring large amounts of 4K ProRes video off the phone and onto a computer. But someone who’s seriously doing that is buying the Pro anyways and that’s faster
who even uses the USB port on their phone for data transfers
If far easier to manage files on the phone, be it upload/download/move/delete with a computer than it is fiddling with whatever shitty file manager on the phone.
I just stream media from my NAS using Navidrome and Jellyfin, use Syncthing to back up my photos and sync files
Going to venture a large portion of mobile device users don’t use any of that, or know what any of that is.
What I don’t get, is why you’re being an apologist for Apple?
What I don’t get, is why you’re being an apologist for Apple?
I fucking hate Apple, their walled garden and questionable engineering practices. But USB port speed is the last of the reasons to hate them. I really don't give a shit about whether the USB-C port on my phone is USB 2 or 3 or whatever. Be it "normies" or "techies", I can't recall anyone in my social circle who uses the port on the phone for anything other than charging. Cloud storage, whether self-hosted or by some big company, is the norm and way more convenient. Especially considering that properly set up, everything is backed up and synced in real time automagically.
I never understood why some people take one comment of “I don’t agree with that criticism” and think you are some diehard fanboy? I don’t like Apple, I don’t like Tesla or Elon Musk, but sometimes I disagree with some criticism they get and basically every single time someone thinks I must be a loyal fan.
I’m sure there are those who will or could make great use of USB3 speeds, but I think like 99% of the users won’t notice the difference because they just don’t use it. I know I’ve never used USB for data transfer in my last couple Android phones, I only use it for charging and even that is greatly reduced since I mainly use wireless charging now.
Well, not an iPhone user myself, but I use the port because it just gets to be straightforward.
I can appreciate the self hosting of Jellyfin, but then I’m at a place in the mountains without adequate cell signal nor other decent internet. One day I was doing the Jellyfin thing then of course my music stops. Turns out there was an outage near my home.
It dawned on me that I went through a lot of trouble to have my media remotely accessible, when plugging into USB let me just dump the files and the on-device media players were really good at handling it. Besides, the latency on seeking the media was sooooo much better than streaming it (the streaming seek latency isn’t bad, but it isn’t instant either).
Fair point about perhaps not needing USB 3 speeds, but USB 3 has been a thing for 14 years now. Phones that cost half as much as the iPhone 15 toss in USB 3 speeds without a thought. Sure, there are budget Android type-c that only have 2.0, but any phone that costs anywhere near as much as the iPhone seems to have USB 3 speeds on the port.
Why would any average person use a usb cable for data transfer when they can just use this specialist equipment that takes more know-how than the average user has to not only spec but build and configure too. Something that most people have never even heard of. People that in most cases barely know how to use their phones or a computer.
Search me… i cant think of any reason whatsoever for that.
so very apple to punish it’s own users because they have too many old components they need to use up, but if you’re paying for PRO you get actual 2023 modern USB.
Connector is USB type C, controller inside of it supports USB up to version 2. With USB you have different connectors but all of them are backwards compatible. So yes, Apple put outdated chip in the phone on regular versions so you get only USB 2.0 speeds. Type C is obviously capable of much more than USB 2, power delivery included… which is the part of OP statement. You get modern connector with outdated interface. Next year they will just trickle down Pro hardware to regular phones and call it “upgrade”. That’s what Apple does.
Well, they put last year’s chip in the phone, which does not support USB 3 speeds. If the non Pro iPhone 16 won’t support usb 3, then it’s deliberate kneecapping. Now it’s just unfortunate.
Well, not really. Most people complained for years now about lightning. Not necessarily about the lack of usb 3 speeds but that’s probably because for the vast majority of people, that doesn’t matter
I still find it scummy that you get a year old hardware at current year prices. If the price was not at flagship level, then sure you could justify older chips.
Well, the price isn’t at flagship level. At least not from Apple’s view. You pay less, you get less (which is still en par if not ahead in most regards, compared to the competition)
Simple anchoring effect at work. Price flagship higher, so expensive “cheap” option looks cheaper by comparison. Truth of the matter is, it’s all inflated prices, not only exclusive to Apple.
I mean, yea, obviously. Adjusted for inflation, the iPhone 15 without contract costs about as much as the iPhone 4 (it’s technically even $40 cheaper). The Pro models are much more expensive, of course, which was a bit less questionable, when pro and non pro shared the same chip. Now, the non pro is a generation behind… At least imo though, there’s not much reason to spend the extra on the Pro, at least not as an average user, especially since, performance wise, last years chip still outperforms the competition. But then again, I myself barely classify as average user since I’m a proud user of the 13 mini…
Most Androids still only get USB2.0, but not the ones that are in the price range of the iPhone.
Edit: Feels like I’m back on Reddit with people not reading my comment, I just said that although most units of Android phones are budget to mid-range, mine being a mid-range (Poco F3), Android phones anywhere near the range of an iPhone in Cost is USB 3.0+
I bought my oneplus 10 pro for sub $500 during a sale, and it has usb3.1. It’s last year’s model. You can get a pixel 6 with usb3.1 for less than $400. A Galaxy S21 has usb3.2, less than $500.
That’s almost every major android brand for $500 or less with 3.1 or better. The cheapest you can buy an iPhone 15, the one with usb2.0, is $800. What are you on about?
Cheap as in 100 and less brand new? The third-party market can get you a usb3 type c port from a 2 year old phone at that price range. This is cheap to have. Apple is not doing it because it costs money, but it is a plus for them. They are doing it to push power users, who know enough about technical specs, to buy the more expensive product. The pro has USB 3, and even then, the charging speeds are 12 watt. They are trickling the upgrades ever slower now because the technological advances have slowed down. They are doing it to create hype and advertising the new stuff every year instead of drastically changing their product. It is planned absolesence from making certain parts weak on purpose.
Most units are budget/mid-range, I’ve got a fairly good mid-range Poco F3 and it’s still USB 2.0, most units of android phones are that or below.
I said that everything close to price range of an iPhone is USB 3.0 or greater. The point was that the iPhone 15 is A$1500 and has the same port as my A$600 2-yr old android. The budget specs of the base model is absurd enough without being hyperbolic.
How is it backwards compatible with fast charging if it only fast charges in 3.0 ports but not 2.0 ports? It will work in 2.0 sure, but it doesn’t fast charge over it since 2.0 doesn’t have the same electrical output as 3. I have a LG Thinq V6.
The port being USB-C has nothing to do with USB 3.0
The port supporting fast charging has nothing to do with it being USB 3.0
Unless you have transferred data over the wire and seen USB 3 speeds, you can’t claim it to be USB 3 based on circumstances alone.
On the other hand, I can totally imagine that 99% people never transfer any data over the wire anymore. Airdrop is fast and convenient if you have a Mac and other solutions exist if you don’t. You can easily get 10 MBps+ transfer rates over Wi-Fi and that works fine for most people, if they ever need to transfer data over to a PC anyway. So I’m guessing Apple just took what majority would accept and went with it, just like any other company does these days.
USB 2.0 has the same power output as USB 1.0 and does not support fast charging.
From wikipedia. If the port on the device only supports 2.0, how does it handle the extra power input to allow fast charging? And what devices have a USB-C port that isn’t using the 3.2 standard?
It’s a little complicated. A USB-3 connection must provide higher current 900mA than a USB-2 connection 500mA. As such a USB-3 data connection can charge faster than a USB-2 connection - some people may call this “fast charging”.
However USB-PD (Power Delivery, aka fast charging) was released as part of the USB 3.1 specification, but it does not require a USB-3 data connection and neither does a USB-3 data connection require USB-PD. You can see all the different USB-C modes on Wikipedia as well, where USB-2 and Power Delivery are listed separately: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C#USB-C_receptacle_pin_…
The power brick can supply more than 5 V over a standard USB port because it’s not adhering to USB standards for supplying power. As a result, data and power are decoupled, allowing the power brick to supply more than a standard USB port over a connector and cable which are identical to USB ports and cables.
5Ghz wifi and Airdrop is what Apple wants people to use. I stopped connecting a USB cable except for doing a physical backup with iMazing on this 256GB model. I just trust the hard line more when making a 232GB backup.
Argument can be made if your camera doesn’t support 4k or 60fps, there’s very little need for higher speeds than USB2.0 since files generated won’t be as big. However if you keep using your phone as a camera to record long videos, then yes it’s annoying to have slower interface.
With Apple devices I honestly don’t know. With others SoC is the one exposing the rest of the hardware and acts are intermediate. Historically in general giving DMA access to any hardware on the system has proven fatal when it comes to security. You do gain speed, but expose so much in the process.
You kind of chose the wrong series laptop to point this out. X series ThinkPad is ultra-portable line where sole focus is on weight and thickness. You can make an argument that memory clip doesn’t weigh a lot, but they really reduce every gram they can. Literally every other series has clip-on RAM.
Even if we ignore RAM, on ThinkPad pretty much everything is replaceable with a single screwdriver. Literally anything. You grab FRU#, find part that matches it and off you go. With Apple it’s ungluing battery, ripping things apart. Hell even keyboard is riveted into the case and you have to drill holes and make threads to replace it. It’s not comparable at the slightest.
It’s funny (or sad I guess) that the current generation of laptops are back on mag chargers (I forget what they’re called) instead of USB C. There was never a time when both iPhones and MacBooks used USB C charging.
Lately the base model is usually last year’s old pro processors and micro controllers. Next year the base 16 will probably have the faster IO if the trend continues.
Ah, yes last year. Usb 2.0 was invented in, like what, 2001? A shitty phone cpu from 2 years ago is probably at least as powerful as the pentium 4 I had back in the day. Come the fuck on.
Just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if they were reusing some boards or controllers with limited throughput that their manufacturing plants and fabs were already pumping out. Cook got famous for being an operational efficiency nerd that made sure Apple had very little spare parts and inventory on the books.
But yeah, iPhone physical IO speeds have been slow for a looong time. My guess is that so much of Apple’s install base is syncing over the cloud that it hasn’t been a priority.
The biggest applause at the in-person event was, no lie, for the larger cloud storage plans.
Completely agree. No company redesigns all of their products each year. They redesign the top tier and then its shifts downward the next year. GPU, CPU, Motherboard, hell even cars do this. Not all models included Carplay and Android Auto when it launched, just the high end cars did, but now all of them do.
USB IO speed aside, Apple’s phones have gotten to the point where 3 and 4 year old chipsets are still VERY performant. They now have the wiggle room to put more bleeding edge silicon in top tier phones, be ok with smaller yields at first, and scale fabrication over the year.
That all being said, given that everyone was going to been eyeing this USB port, they probably should’ve taken one on the chin and changed the stupid IO speed. Although, the people complaining about this probably aren’t Apple’s core market anyway. So maybe they were right.
I suspect next year’s base will have a revised version of this year’s processor. The iPhone 15 Pro has an A17 Pro. This is the first A Series chip with a “Pro” label. I don’t expect something “Pro” to make it into the base model.
What will change between the A17 Pro and the A17? Who knows. It might include the upgraded USB controller though.
This is Apple at it again, do bare minimum and charge premium. They left USB2 because it required no work, but they had to put type C because EU regulation. Since USB is backwards compatible, solution is just solder half of the connector, charge premium price and fuck you customers. And they are right, people don’t care. Instead they go defending it like “I don’t need it anyway”, “Am not a pro, I don’t need it”, etc.
Add comment