Grandma is a wise, WISE woman. Like, I can’t tell you how wise. And everyone should listen to her advice–men and women both. Have an account in YOUR name, and have enough stashed away in there so if things go tits up and all you have left is the shirt on your back, you can get an airplane ticket to someone who will help you get back on your feet. $2k sounds good to me, but even $100 can help massively if you’re in a dark place.
(And if you don’t have anyone you can get a plane ticket to–put even more in if you’re able, so you can keep a roof over your head and gas in your car if you have to suddenly reinvent your own life and have no friends or other family members to flee to.)
I grew up in an abusive home, and found out the horrifically hard way when I ran away at 16 that my uncle had been stealing out of my account, because minors are forced to have joint accounts instead of accounts in their own name. He purposefully stole the money I earned at work and took it, so when I needed it most when I ran away from home, it wasn’t there.
In my darkest hour, I needed money, because the ones who were supposed to love me didn’t actually love me and I hit my limit and I had to get out.
And my money wasn’t there.And this happened because I wasn’t allowed to have a bank account of my own. As a minor I was old enough to work–but not old enough to have my own bank account, and I had no legal recourse to get that money back once my guardian stole it from me.
And as I understand it, even if you’re an adult, you have no legal recourse to get money back if someone on a joint account with you takes out of it–even if you’re the one who earned the money to begin with. I would only have had recourse if the account had bee IN MY NAME ONLY.
I’m nowhere near grandma’s age up there, but it’s SO FUCKING common for abusers to steal your money as way to control you so you can’t leave. Having an account of your own with anywhere between $100 -$2,000 in it as an emergency fund is critical to your OWN survival. Everyone should have a separate bank account of their own with a little money in it for emergencies, even if they largely agree to join finances with a partner or spouse. Men AND women should have it. It’s not a betrayal of trust to give yourself a lifeline like that. You don’t know what life will bring you. Or take away.
And it’s not some “hiding assets in a divorce” trickery that some people crawling about these comments would say. Shoving $2k (or even less, because sometimes even an extra $100 can help in dire situations) into an account only YOU can touch isn’t divorce malfeasance, it’s not the same as shoving a fucking yacht or a bunch of stocks or whatever in there as a way to fuck over a divorcing spouse. It’s making sure if things go truly tits-up, you can get a plane ticket or uber or SOMETHING to get yourself to physical safety if it’s needed. It’s not swaning off in a golden parachute, it’s making sure you can put gas in your car and pay the insurance for a month or two if you’re suddenly living in it.
Honestly, for all of you saying “oh, my trust in my spouse would be broken if they did that!” and “oh, someone this paranoid isn’t even whole enough to have a relationship–they should stay single!”…well, let’s turn that around.
Why the hell would I want a spouse that LOVED ME SO LITTLE that having a $2k emergency fund in my own name in a bank account only I can access would break your heart to pieces?
Why is ME caring for MYSELF and my physical safety in the most minimal way possible something that will make you love me less? Why do you, a person supposedly in a relationship with me (or someone like me!) not love me enough to allow me to have an emergency escape plan that might keep me physically safe if something unexpected goes wrong? Why are you elevating your feelings over my SAFETY?
That selfish behavior is just as chilling to ME as my supposed “betrayal of trust” would be to you if I had a bank account kept secret from you.
Grandma in the Tweet above loves her grandkids. She’s not afraid of hurting her granddaughter’s feelings because she knows the advice might well keep her grandkid physically safe and alive to face another day.
I feel for what you went through but trying to equate having a need for a secret bank account hidden from your spouse to an uncle stealing funds from a minor is ingenious at best and absolutely laughable at best. There is obviously a difference between the two and if you don’t realize that, I assume you must be a little too young to even weigh in. If you feel that unless you have a secret stash of cash you’re in physical danger from your spouse then DO NOT MARRY THAT PERSON. it’s not that complicated. Marriage isn’t a joke or something to lightly go into. It’s like saying “I don’t trust you enough to not cheat on me so I’m going to keep a side man/woman on the side just in case. What? You don’t like that?? That is a chillingly selfish betrayal of trust how dare you!” Just don’t get married and merge accounts until you trust the person it’s not that complicated, if you don’t trust them enough for that, don’t get married, simple as.
Yeah. Context matters. In Grandma’s time, women had much less agency and legal recourse, often needing significant physical abuse for divorce to be legally accepted. It would be sound advice for that context.
In the context of modern times, I was happy when my spouse got her own account because it was a big step forward in independence but if she had opened secret ones, there would be an issue and we’d be going to marriage counseling ASAP because of the breach of trust. Our marriage is a cooperative partnership, not a competition and I’d never stay in a marriage with someone that I could not trust.
people who have that attitude tell on themselves. as in, they expect others to act like awful shitty people because deep down they know that is how they would act.
In the context of modern times, women are six times more likely to be abandoned by their spouse after receiving a devastating medical diagnosis like cancer than men are.
This is true. The fight for equality is NOT over, regardless of how some may like to pretend. Women are still much better off than a century ago in terms of agency over their financial interests (usually - see: Brittany Spears).
Also, (and I don’t know if they go into it in your research), a lot of the time in US couples have to divorce so the women can qualify for benefits of some sorts, and for the couple it might be the only way to afford a treatment.
That happens because US healthcare is a cruel and inhumane torture.
Sound wisdom for both the husband and wife. Obviously the grandmother has her own experiences that make that good advice for a woman, but I think it’s good for everyone.
Have a joint account where you pay for shared expenses, and then your own separate account for yourself. For probably the majority of relationships now, both parties are (or at least should) be working anyway.
The wise way is to tell your partner Grandma says it’s important to have separate bank accounts, as my MIL said to me, and my husband agreed. We have had them for 30 years together. Sometimes it’s been handy that one side has a better credit rating at that moment.
But if your partner objects, or tries to sabotage it in any way, that’s a huge red flag for gaslighting and abuse. So it’s time to make that secret account and start taking steps to escape safely. Granny may well have already seen the signs you’re too in love to see.
The secret account is not for hiding money during a divorce. It is for fleeing or paying for expenses while going through the divorce.
It is common for one spouse, or the other, to empty all accounts in the lead up to the divorce. It does not matter how right you are when you cannot buy your kids food.
This is advice from an 85 year old. She has seen soon shit.
A couple thousand in an “oh shit” account is rational.
A neat detail here is that there’s no rule here that the account needs to be literally secret. You can tell your spouse you have a private account and you’ll put a couple hundred in out of your paycheck. A spouse in a healthy relationship should reply “sure, I’ll do the same.” It’s nice to have for holidays and secret presents too.
It doesn’t even need to be a secret account, def see it being a hella good litmus test, too; check whether someone’s “I love you” means “no matter what, right now I want the best for you” or “I want to own you”
So, I grew up in an abusive home and sometimes advise people trying to get out of bad situations.
The “secret” part actually isn’t because someone’s just naturally up to no good. There’s actually a pragmatic, “we’re in a survival situation now and this is how you survive” reason.
Keeping the bug-out account secret is because when shit gets bad, like, bad enough to need to get out ASAP with the shirt on your back, other people even knowing you have the escape money can cause them to weaponize that knowledge on you to manipulate you. Like, “You give me that $500 you have, or I’ll kill your cat.”
Or they can try to log into your account to see stuff. Like, if you did successfully move out, they can try to log in and see if your address changed, and what it was changed to, so they can stalk you.
Family members know things like past addresses, social security numbers, mother’s maiden name, so if you don’t fudge those questions and such and they’re aware you have a bank account at so-and-so bank, they can sometimes get past security measures by pretending to be you since they know your intimate information already.
Keeping the entire bank account secret is one more layer of defense so they don’t know to start trying to get into it, and don’t know to weaponize their knowledge of it on you.
lemmy users are a sausagefest and completely full of shit. THIS IS REASONABLE ADVICE FOR PEOPLE WHO GET INTO ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS; I was talking about ppl who know the signs of abusers. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS, YOU DUMBFUCKS.
Having separate accounts for personal stuff is just wise financing, but feeling the need to even make a secret account should tell you where that's headed.
Siphoning your money into a secret account before a divorce is a great way to lose all of that money and possibly face criminal charges. But, it depends on the state, really.
Doing it as an attempted fraudulent report of finances, yes. Having it as a personal, non-joint account for years prior is not fraudulent at all, yet keeps said divorcee-to-be from all manner of technically legal shenanigans.
My grandfather had an account he never told my grandmother about, then he got dementia and couldn’t remember he had the account, years later after he died we found out about it, and we found out that he’d invested in a lot of successful companies over the decades, and had made a substantial amount of money.
If my grandmother had known about the account he would have had vastly better care than we were actually able to afford.
I also think it’s rather ironic that he would have had a better life if he had just been a bit more open with his finances.
Growing up they always had crap cars they were always falling apart and Mr Frugal was sitting on a life-changing amount of money.
Wtf is with these comments? I personally think every participant in a relationship should have their own bank account. My wife and I have our own personal accounts, as well as a shared account for bills. Our kids will also have their own accounts.
Doesn’t matter how strong you think your “bond” is. Y’all going to ignore historical data on divorce rates because “omg they’re the one forever!”?
Having worked at a law firm as their IT person, that shit is extra messy. Not to mention all the abuse from people who dangle money as a way to them to stay together. Or the flip side, one person emptying out an account because fuck you.
It’s not about trust. It’s about financial responsibility.
Divorce doesn’t protect your personal bank account. That money doesn’t suddenly becomes yours. When splitting assets, personal accounts and even safety deposit boxes are included (unless a prenup arrangement).
And the “secret” part is the problem. Seems to me grandma isn’t advising her to have a personal bank account like everyone; she wants her to have a bank account the husband doesn’t know about. There’s a difference.
Divorce doesn’t protect your personal bank account. That money doesn’t suddenly becomes yours.
Yes, but no. If you are married and only have joint accounts, you can't do much to prevent the other person from withdrawing from those accounts until you get into see the magistrate. At a minimum, you should have a separate account if you are paid by direct deposit.
On the first point, it largely depends on the state the divorce happens in. States have differing definitions of what’s considered common property. In some states only joint accounts are subject to asset splitting.
Or she told her husband about it and they laughed while repressing the idea that this means Grandma once felt financially trapped with Grampa back in the day
Considering all the stories you hear about our grandparents and their idea of what “dating” was, Grandma probably definitely felt trapped at some point.
Right, I’m not assuming Mommy Owl kept secrets. I’m just refuting grandma’s shitty advice (WHICH TO BE FAIR - comes from a different generation where women had no power)
Or make those secrets explicit. Tell them that you have a bank account on your name to which you only have access to and may be that you don‘t want to tell them how much money is in this account. Further tell them WHY you want that. Any reasonable partner would be fine with this.
Keeping a separate bank account that the partner can’t access can be a very sensible decision, I agree in the other hand that needing to keep it secret is not the sign of a healthy relationship.
Yeah. Could be caused by mental health issues or something of the like. Pretty sure due to some mental health issues, my mom might have almost ended marriage with my dad a couple years back. Don’t remember the details, though.
Hence, my phrasing. The angle of your comment lies a little too close to an irrational and negative tendency. I suggest moving away from that in the future.
Stroke, surgery, head trauma, misprescribed medications, undiagnosed mental/emotional health triggers, you name it. People can change, and often enough so do without their own choice in it.
The way a lot of people in the comments are talking, everyone is a psych/sociopath. Sure, it can happen, but the percentage of the population with such tendencies is so low, it makes it ridiculous coming from someone who doesn’t carry an umbrella everywhere.
Sure, it’s sunny, and there’s nothing to indicate it will rain in the hour I’m gone, but every so often it happens and I’m prepared.
It would be easier if we could find out sooner or quickly if someone is psycho/socio/narc but the problem is is that they are so damn good at hiding it. Hell, a lot of them are very charismatic on top of it. Sometimes it takes years to figure it all out.
There is nothing wrong with keeping separate bank accounts but it’s shady as fuck to keep a secret one. If you feel the need to do that, you don’t trust them so you’re clearly not in the right relationship
Well yes but it would be nice not to have to move in with parents that may be dead or assholes or friends that have no room. The secret stash is for moving out safely and quickly.
If you have separate bank accounts you are likely to have several thousands on one account. You can restrict the maximum amount you can withdraw in a day without visiting the bank personally. It would take a week or so to withdraw all the money and send it to your violent spouse.
The only way this would work is if you couldn’t leave the house or call anyone - after all, you’d still have a large chunk of your money left. And if your spouse doesn’t allow you to leave after becoming violent, what’s to stop them from doing this if your stash was secret?
Also you can tell the bank the transaction was fraudulent and you’ll likely get your money back.
The real trick I’m hoping is openly having escape funds from the start. I’m actually worried my wife’s may be running lower than she leads me to believe. I want her to always have the option to leave if she feels she needs to, and I make sure I have the same
Yeah, I think it’s important BOTH men and women have escape routes. I don’t see it as a betrayal of trust. I see it as acknowledgement that despite the best of intentions and best ideals, life sometime doesn’t work out the way it should, and both parties need to have some sort of lifeline in case something goes to shit.
I’d say the one with the secret bank account is the one who’s turned “darkside”. What’s worse, this is happening even before the marriage. Wonderful way to start a life together.
This is all hypothetical of course but there is an entire trope /genre of crime dramas that basically are “He was the perfect husband and father…until”.
I think having just enough to move away in a secret safety fund is just smart planning. And hey if it turns out you rolled the dice and got a 20 on your spouse then hell buy them a gift with that money or something.
Divorce rates are weird to me because they take the number of marriages in one year and the number of divorces and say the divorce rate is a percentage of marriages from that year.
But divorced folks could have been married any length of time, so it’s not like half of the marriages in that specific year ended in divorce.
You’ve clearly never been married and have no idea what you’re talking about. Hiding secrets and saying it’s impossible not to is the most destructive thing you could do to your marriage. On top of all, hiding assets from a spouse during a divorce amounts to contempt of court and carries a penalty and additional legal battles and expenses. Please don’t recommend anyone to do it.
I’m just going to assume you (as I am) are a man. For women, this is a very real concern, and is still a somewhat common issue. I know two women if my family who were married for 10+ years before their partners had a sudden, violent change. For one of them their partner managed to empty all of their savings, and leave the country. She literally had to couch surf at 50 because she had nothing, and hadn’t kept her own savings.
Like… Legitimately I’d rather be single and never worry about it, rather than be that terrified of something like that.
Can it happen? Absolutely. I can name two people I know personally it happened to.
But to just assume that everyone is like that, and that the person you place your trust in will betray said trust and to think otherwise is stupid… Like… Just stay single then and stop trying to make other people as miserable as you?
I trust my wife, and I trust our separate bank accounts. If I need something, she sends it. If she needs something, I send it. My parents have their own accounts, as well as a joint account. They set all three up at the same time when they moved to the state.
Someone who mistrusts every single person to that degree, including their own spouse, is in need of therapy, because something needs to be worked out. And therapy works.
Therapy costs money too and she will need it when she is fleeing the abuse. Having a cash stash just in case, that’s not big enough to be illegal or “hiding assets” but is enough to walk out the first time he hits her, instead of getting trapped into a cycle of abuse that leads to her death, is prudent for any woman. You’re definitely speaking from a man’s lived experience but just because you’ve never been made aware of it doesn’t mean it’s not all around you. Women literally put their life on the line in most heterosexual relationships. The person most likely to harm or kill a woman is not a stranger but her husband or boyfriend. And it’s often the man who most vehemently argues against the idea, and says the woman is doing something wrong by hiding money, that she’s not trusting enough or wanting to cheat, who will violently turn on her in rage one day for those same imagined affronts to his ownership of her. Which he’ll deny right up to, and even after he does it. You want loyal, get a dog. Having a chance to escape is what makes staying a free choice.
Back in grandma’s day (in the US at least) women were financially trapped in their marriages by a system that wouldn’t allow them to get credit cards or open bank accounts without their husband’s permission, even if they worked. Having a small stash allows a person to choose to be in a marriage, not be forced.
It’s outdated advice but it comes from a good place.
Thanks for adding this context. It's important to remember. If your partner is financially irresponsible and will spend all your joint account money whether they should or not, back up accounts are the only answer.
My Grandma was still scarred from the Great Depression when I was growing up so always ingrained a bunch of weird rules into me. I still have money tucked in my shoe when I go out. She said to have a dollar bill in there at all times but with inflation I switched it to a 20. Can’t say I’ve had to leverage my “shoe money” since most places take cards but it has come in handy a few times across the past 30 years.
Yup. My great grandma always had funds hidden somewhere. Cash, of course, because she couldn’t legally open a bank account (plus a lot of this happened during the Depression). She couldn’t just leave because a) marital rape is a thing and she had a whole bunch of kids and b) you just didn’t really do that back then. But her stash made sure the kids ate and had clothes even when grandpa was being more of a pos than usual. It was just sensible.
Plus, it’s still good advice for women in abusive relationships, so that when they’re ready to leave, they at least have something.
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