Netanyahu defies Biden, insisting there’s ‘no space’ for Palestinian state

Defiant Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu doubled down on opposition to Palestinian statehood, deepening the divide with Israel’s closest international allies, as cracks in his wartime “unity” government became increasingly evident.

Anger with Netanyahu is also increasingly visible on the streets, even though there is broad public support for the war. On Saturday, protesters gathered in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Caesarea and Kfar Saba, some calling for bolder action to secure the release of hostages, and others demanding the prime minister step down.

One in Jerusalem held a placard that read: “Mothers’ cry: we will not sacrifice our children in the war to save the rightwing.”

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simple,

Are we still doing this narrative that the US wants Israel to stop? They have literally given them billions since they’ve started bombing. Any bullshit about hoping for palestinians is just trying to save face.

NounsAndWords,

I think the obscene amount of money we give them is more to do with our nation’s whole ‘military industrial complex’ grift. Gotta keep those bombs blowing to keep the money flowing. As they say. I assume.

lolcatnip,

The MIC didn’t require sending money or weapons to Israel. We could spend they money on military equipment for ourselves just as easily.

ultranaut,

Yes? There’s a huge amount of inertia in US-Israeli relations but it’s very clear at this point that Biden is yanking the leash and trying to reel Netanyahu into a path towards peace. They aren’t going to stop supplying weapons any time soon (if ever), the first step would be explicit restrictions on what the weapons could be used for, and we’re still a very long ways from that being considered publicly.

Muyal,
@Muyal@lemmy.world avatar

How is Biden yanking the chain?

He hasn’t done anything to stop the funding and the sales of weapons.

ultranaut,

How is Biden not yanking the chain? You are commenting on an article about Netanyahu bitching about Biden telling him he must allow a Palestinian state. Diplomacy and international relations and all of that mostly moves kind of slowly for a bunch of reasons, it’s not like the movies, but there’s a very obvious and public rupture between Netanyahu and Biden at this point. Stopping funding is way down on the list of responses, and it’s very unlikely to escalate to that even being threatened in public.

Muyal,
@Muyal@lemmy.world avatar

Telling him anythin is not yanking the chain. As long as the US keeps supplying him with weapons and money he knows he can keep doing what he wants.

TheBananaKing,

Israel doesn’t give a shit what anyone else wants them to do. They’re going to continue slaughtering the Palestinians and taking their land until someone physically prevents them.

dangblingus,

Biden is attempting to look compassionate for Leftist voters who are willing to abstain in November. The agenda is still to have a foothold in the middle east by supporting Israel. There’s sizeable oil shipments that will be coming through Gaza soon, hence why Israel had to clear out all of the Palestinians from their homes to make way for the new pipeline installation.

Hootz,

Yea maybe because over the course of the last many decades you’ve slowly stolen more and more land making a practical two state solution impossible without handing back land which we know they won’t do.

Single state solution with equal representation for all is I think the outcome of all this BUT only if the current government is ousted.

Aceticon,

Netanyahu knows perfectly well that the US Administration are complete total bullshit masters that talk the talk whilst not walking the walk and that they’re “relaxed about Genocide” as long as it’s commited against non-whites (and for them nowadays Jews are whites).

It wasn’t that long ago that in her speech in COP28 Kamala Harris said the US was putting pressure on Israel and then less than a week later the US vetoed in the UN Security Council a resolution for a Ceasefire in Gaza which would otherwise have passed.

(Also, I’m pretty sure that had Russia invaded a Post-Soviet state like Kazakhstan instead of a “white” one like Ukraine, the reaction from the Whitehouse would’ve been barelly audible).

Worx,

Not important to the main point, but why don’t you consider Ukraine to be a “Post-Soviet state like Kazakhstan”? Ukraine was part of the USSR

Aceticon,

I do, hence why I phrased it like “a Post-Soviet state like A instead of one like B”.

PS: that said, re-reading, that “one” is more likely to be interpreted as going with “white”. Sorry about that.

Worx,

Ahhh, I misunderstood you. I thought I was going crazy because I was sure Ukraine was USSR! xD

hark,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Too true, netanyahu, I know you love your living space, just like your role model.

Blackmist,

No space? You live in the fucking desert, man.

PanArab,

Netanyahu isn’t going to live forever and it is Israel that has an expiration date on it. It has become evidently clear that it cannot stand on its own without political, financial and military aid from western countries.

theotherverion,

It can survive without financial and military aid. We live in the world where technology will be one the most important assets to the future and a lot of tech comes from there.

PanArab, (edited )

Yet it couldn’t post October 7. Either you are in the dark or lying. Either way feel free to entertain yourself and we will keep the pressure.

Sources in case you are in the dark, but if you are lying then it is all pointless. But how many tech bros want to live in a conflict zone? I promise you, your governments will never stop sending aid and we will make sure of it.

en.wikipedia.org/…/United_States_support_for_Isra…

aljazeera.com/…/us-house-passes-14-5bn-military-a…

www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/…/index.html

timesofisrael.com/israeli-tech-execs-seek-uk-fund…

“All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the U.S.,” retired Israeli Major General Yitzhak Brick told the Jewish News Syndicate. “The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability… Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”

theotherverion,

First of all, I don’t really recommend posting anything from Al Jazeera as they cannot be trusted at all…

Secondly, you are correct that wars don’t help a lot with attracting new companies, however, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages as there are currently a lot of R&D centres there. Hence why a lot of population interested in hi-tech may go there which eventually results in more tech companies opening their facilities there.

Take intel for example.

Dkarma,

What country are they going to give to Palestinians after this Holocaust is over? Germany would be the ultimate irony.

ShaggySnacks,

Technically, it would be the British.

Chocrates,

The United States had a large hand in it too :(, after the British gave up.

ShaggySnacks,

Palestinians should get the British land for keeps and give the US land back to Indigenous populations.

Fades,

Fuck off hitler

sndmn,

The Israeli flag is a hate symbol.

Grant_M,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

This is why electing far right demagogues is ALWAYS a bad idea.

badbytes,

Isreal putting big target on state

Reddfugee42,

Isfake meanwhile seems unaffected

IndustryStandard,

Darn. now surely Biden is going to do something about it. Any second now…

Grant_M,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

He will. But as is everything, it will take a while.

BobGnarley,

Of course he will! He’s going to send more weapons any day now

kent_eh,

Like what?

You overestimate what one person (even the leader of a powerful country) can legitimately do to force another country to bow to his will.

IndustryStandard,

Maybe he will try to up the aid package to 16 bil

Aceticon,

Strong finger wagging and stern “bad boy” warning, followed by a wink and a nod.

CanadaPlus,

The US when Israel openly does bad stuff: “We’ve done nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”

speaker_hat, (edited )

TLDR; Hamas massacre was a wrong move that delays the establishment of a Palestinian state.

after Hamas is destroyed, Israel must retain security control over Gaza to ensure that Gaza will no longer pose a threat to Israel, a requirement that contradicts the demand for Palestinian sovereignty

Israel would need to keep security control of all land west of the River Jordan. “That’s a necessary condition. It clashes with the principle of sovereignty but what can you do.

Netanyahu is doing the right move by putting his country’s security above all.

A Palestinian sovereignty cannot be established because by all means it’s a threat to Israel’s security.

As an example, Hamas 07/10 massacre launched from a Palestinian sovereignty, called Gaza (Gaza received it’s sovereignty just 18 years ago).

The peaceful quest for a Palestinian state is a just cause.

The quest for a Palestinian state is by all means not peaceful. It’s brutal full of bloodshed from both sides.

As Keir Starmer has said, it is the undeniable right of the Palestinian people, and the only path to guarantee a just and lasting peace for both Israelis and Palestinians.”

Palestinians don’t look for peace, and as a consequence of this war, Israel is also don’t.

The Palestinians only look for undoing the what so called “Nakba”, a thing that will never happen, as long as Israel exists.

And Israel is looking for a security, by all means.

The UK’s position is very clear. A two-state solution, with a viable and sovereign Palestinian state living alongside a safe and secure Israel, is the best route to lasting peace.

Palestinian sovereign living alongside Israel = Israel is NOT safe and NOT secure.

As I wrote earlier, the Palestinians are not looking for peace.

The US has repeatedly said that the establishment of an independent Palestinian state is the only path to rebuilding Gaza and ensuring Israel’s long-term security.

Palestinian state is NOT the only path to Israel’s long-term security.

After more than three months, Israeli attacks have killed nearly 25,000 Palestinians

This is a clue for this article bias, as they didn’t separated the number of Hamas militant casualties from Palestinian civilians casualties.

machinin,

It seems like the state of Israel is threatening the security of the whole region. Better to get rid of Israel for the security of her region.

speaker_hat,

I don’t agree. Especially when your comment isn’t article post based nor sources based.

And Israel is an established independent country, you can’t just “rid of” a country.

machinin,

But it would be doing the right thing by placing the security of the Palestinians and neighboring countries above all else.

speaker_hat,

Neighboring Jordan and Egypt are secured, so your comment is false. Why they are secured you asked? Because they want peace and accept it, in contrast to the ones who don’t want it.

Even though your comment is false, let give it a try.

In Israel there are 21% Arabs with Palestinian origin, do you want to get rid of them as well? If not let me know your sophisticated “getting rid of” partition (hint: antisemitism will be reported).

All of the Palestinian economy and Arabs living in Israel are based on the Israeli economy and currency (New Israeli Shekel), getting rid of Israel meaning destroying these people economy (which will only lead to more crime and terror, see Syria as an example).

The United States and Israel have signed multiple bilateral defense cooperation agreements, to include: a Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement (1952); a General Security of Information Agreement (1982); a Mutual Logistics Support Agreement (1991); and a Status of Forces Agreement (1994).

So “getting rid of Israel” will be required to win also the US army. Source: state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-israel/

Oh, and Israel has a nuke, so the ones that will try to “get rid of it” will be nuked immediately as a last resort solution, which is a loose-loose situation.

Womble,

You seem to be missing their entire point so I’ll state it in plane language to you.

You are advocating demolishing Palestine being justifiable because it places the security of Israel above all. The above poster is flipping your logic on you and saying demolishing Israel is justifiable as it places the security of Palestine above all.

speaker_hat,

Thanks for the explanation.

Let me rephrase my comment:

Netanyahu is doing the right move by putting his country’s security above all by delaying the establishment of Palestinian state or sovereignty.

I didn’t advocate for Palestinian demolish.

This is why I didn’t agree with the above post sophisticated “flipped logic” comment.

I’ll state again: Palestinians don’t look for peace nor a state. They look to undo the what so called “Nakba”, a thing that will happen as long as Israel exists.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

You know, I'm not actually taking your nonsensical take seriously, but lemme just say a few things:

Israel will never give Palestinians a state willingly; they'll need to be forced by either Palestinians themselves, the Arab world or the international community. This became obvious in 1996.

Gaza is still considered occupied by the UN.

Israel has never looked for peace. Again see 1996.

Stop shilling for Zionists.

speaker_hat,

they’ll need to be forced by either Palestinians themselves, the Arab world or the international community.

It didn’t work for 75 years, and only causes bloodshed from both sides, and the delay of a Palestinian state.

This became obvious in 1996

Unfortunately I don’t understand the 1996 reference.

Israel has never looked for peace. Again see 1996.

Per by this comment, here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them (total of 22 offers):

1937 - Peel commission, rejected

1947 - Partition resolution, rejected

2000 - Camp David, rejected

2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.

2008 - Olmert offer, rejected

Hamas have tried to agree to boundaries Despite media attempts to portray it as a new Hamas charter, it is not. The new ‘policy document’ accepts the creation of a Palestinian state in 1967 borders, but still rejects Israel and claims its territory. www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39775103

Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.

1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.

1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.

1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.

1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected

1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.

1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.

1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.

1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).

1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).

1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.

2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.

2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.

2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.

2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.

2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

Not gonna link Trump’s imbecilic peace plan as an example.

Here is a list of peace offers the Palestinians offered to Israel -

None

NoneOfUrBusiness, (edited )

It didn’t work for 75 years, and only causes bloodshed from both sides, and the delay of a Palestinian state.

"Delay" you're speaking like Palestinians were promised a state at any time after 1948.

Unfortunately I don’t understand the 1996 reference.

When Netanyahu just decided to ignore the Oslo accords after Rabin was assassinated.

1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected

I wonder why Palestinians didn't want their land to be stolen and used to build an Apartheid state.

2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.

Okay this is just a bad faith take. These two are extensions of the same negotiations, and let's see what Israel's then foreign affairs minister had to say about them:

Shlomo Ben-Ami, then Israel's Minister of Foreign Relations who participated in the talks, stated that the Palestinians wanted the immediate withdrawal of the Israelis from the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, and only subsequently the Palestinian authority would dismantle the Palestinian organizations. The Israeli response was "we can't accept the demand for a return to the borders of June 1967 as a pre-condition for the negotiation."[61] In 2006, Shlomo Ben-Ami stated on Democracy Now! that "Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well. This is something I put in the book. But Taba is the problem. The Clinton parameters are the problem" referring to his 2001 book Scars of War, Wounds of Peace: The Israeli-Arab Tragedy.

TL;DR: Israel's Camp David terms were so horrible that as long as they didn't budge on them (which they didn't; the idea that Arafat didn't compromise is Israeli propaganda) no sane Palestinian would accept them.

2008 - Olmert offer, rejected

Since the offer went on behind the scenes, nobody actually knows what happened, so I won't comment on it.

Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.

1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.

1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.

1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.

1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected

1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.

1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.

1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.

1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).

1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).

1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.

2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.

2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.

2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.

2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.

2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

I know you copy pasted this, because I've sent his exact nonsense list before, and lemme just say this: Check what you copy before you copy it. Two of these are UN resolutions that Israel refuses to follow, and the 2014 offer is one where Netanyahu wasn't even trying. According to the American Envoy he was unquestionably at fault.

speaker_hat,

First, thank you for the detailed response, which I’ll response to as such.

When Netanyahu just decided to ignore the Oslo accords after Rabin was assassinated.

At that time, Shimon Peres was the prime minister of Israel, so Netanyahu’s stand wasn’t even relevant. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Isr…)

Anyway,

Negotiations on further terms continued, with Peres continuing to be an integral player. On 28 September 1995, Rabin and Arafat jointly signed a second major agreement, which has popularly been referred to as “Oslo II”

(“Oslo II” created the Areas A, B and C in the West Bank, Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_II_Accord. However, these areas still have Palestinian terror acts)

I wonder why Palestinians didn’t want their land to be stolen and used to build an Apartheid state.

Palestinians, at that time, didn’t had ownership over the area of Palestine. because it was an official Mandate of the United Kingdom. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine)

Apartheid state

How’s Israel an apartheid state when it has 21% Arabs citizens from the Palestinian origin?

The “1937 - Peel commission” is an Investigation of the causes of the 1936 Arab revolt in Palestine, which in short was an uprising by Palestinian Arabs in Mandatory Palestine against the British demanding Arab independence and the end of the policy of open-ended Jewish immigration.

The Arabs of that time didn’t have any stand of the Jewish immigration, as it was under the British auspices.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/…/1936–1939_Arab_revolt_in_Pales…

Same argument is relevant for “1947 - Partition resolution”.

TL;DR: Israel’s Camp David terms were so horrible that as long as they didn’t budge on them (which they didn’t; the idea that Arafat didn’t compromise is Israeli propaganda) no sane Palestinian would accept them.

In 2000 Camp David Summit, “The Palestinian negotiators indicated they wanted full Palestinian sovereignty over the entire West Bank and the Gaza Strip”. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit)

The Palestinians received sovereignty over Gaza strip at 5 years later in 2005. (Source: en.wikipedia.org/…/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaz…).

Guess what happened just 18 years later, from that Palestinian sovereignty? You guessed right, Hamas 07/10 massacre.

Since the offer went on behind the scenes, nobody actually knows what happened, so I won’t comment on it.

OK.

You didn’t reply on the rest of the peace rejection, so I’ll consider them to be agreed otherwise stated.

Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected

This sentence, and the list you provided, strengthening and supporting what I wrote on my comment above:

Palestinians don’t look for peace.

They only look for undoing the what so called “Nakba”, a thing that will never happen, as long as Israel exists.

t0m5k1,
@t0m5k1@lemmy.world avatar

His true colours are on full display, yet many still try to say this is not genocide.

It’s sick to the core.

Why9,

UK’s David Cameron: “to suggest there’s genocidal intent? I do believe that’s wrong”

They’ll bend over backwards to support Israel, and people are asking what Israel has over the UK to make it so. At some point, answers will have to be given.

mochisuki,

Read some British history. This is their last colony and they are very determined to keep it

fosforus,

It has been an incredibly successful strategic move. For the last 80 years, Near East has been directing their power struggles mostly inwards instead of towards Europe – like they often did before WW1. Given how Russia is being offensive against Europe, this would be a horrible time for Europe if Israel would fall.

Soleos,

I think people get too hung up on the question of genocidal intent in this conflict. That’s not to dismiss the importance of the word and legal implications. I came across this opinion that expresses what I mean much better: www.desmoinesregister.com/story/…/71904125007/

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