Sinking ship hit by Houthi missile leaves 18-mile oil slick in Red Sea, US officials say

A cargo ship that was struck by a Houthi ballistic missile on Monday has created an 18-mile long oil slick in the Red Sea as it continues to take on water, two US officials said Friday.

The M/V Rubymar — a Belize-flagged, UK-registered, Lebanese-owned vessel — was carrying 41,000 tons of fertilizer when it was struck on Monday by one of two ballistic missiles fired from Houthi territory in Yemen.

US Central Command said the ship is currently anchored as it takes on water. “The Houthis continue to demonstrate disregard for the regional impact of their indiscriminate attacks, threatening the fishing industry, coastal communities, and imports of food supplies,” US Central Command said.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

The Houthis have been ridiculous about their justifications for attacks, but where was this ship headed? It doesn't say in the article.

Landsharkgun,

Doesn’t matter. It’s civil disobedience with missiles. The point is less to destroy an enemy, and more to cause enough fuss that the various Western powers - almost all of whom are supporting the genocide in Palestine - change their behavior under the pressure.

uSpetzWon,

funny way to spell terrorism.

Lemmy probably defended ISIS too.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

DAE stopping Genocide is the same as doing Genocide?

If you don’t even know the difference between ISIS and the Houthi’s because you think every Arab group is the same, don’t comment on foreign policy.

derf82,

Civil disobedience: refusal to obey governmental demands or commands especially as a nonviolent and usually collective means of forcing concessions from the government - Merriam-Webster

This is not civil disobedience by any definition. It is violent, and it is not refusing to follow an unjust law.

Tell me, when did Dr. King or Ghandi shoot missiles at people?

Landsharkgun,

It was an analogy, bub. Touch grass.

Maggoty,

Civil disobedience doesn’t include violence. Much less military power.

Cethin,

It isn’t civil disobedience because it’s trying to influence international politics. Civil disobedience isn’t always non-violent though. In fact I’d argue it requires a certain amount of violence, usually because it’s met with violence. Non-violent protest has never made a change happen on its own. It always at least requires a threat of violence.

hglman,

It’s an act of war. The Houthis are not a rogue operation; they are part of a much larger global march to war. Any view other than this is the opening 2 years of a new global conflict is incomplete.

bbkpr,

We are quite certainly in the beginning-ish of WW3.

feedum_sneedson,

I call them the Poopy… Poopies. The Poopies.

mriormro,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

Infantilizing the precarious scenario the world currently finds itself in isn’t going to make it go away.

feedum_sneedson,

I don’t really do that. But that’s what people that say “Putler” sound like to me. Or “Drumpf” or any of that bullshit. Or use the term “pissbaby”. I mean, come on.

Cethin,

Drumpf isn’t quite the same as the others. That was literally his family name until they changed it to sound less foreign. I think it’s somewhat fair to point out the anti-immigrant guy is himself an immigrant.

feedum_sneedson,

Yeah, but it’s America. I guess 99% of people are.

Cethin,

I was just commenting on why it isn’t civil disobedience, because the other comment was wrong in why. Civil disobedience doesn’t necessarily mean non-violent, but it does mean internal to your country. It’s the same root as civics. It isn’t from the meaning of civil meaning polite, just like a civil war isn’t polite.

TopRamenBinLaden, (edited )

Idk, Gandhi and MLK Jr most definitely led peaceful movements that made change happen, and that’s just the two most obvious examples. You could say that civil disobedience can lead to violence, especially from the side of the oppressors, but one of the main tenets of civil disobedience is nonviolence.

I would say that once the protestors or oppressed resort to violence, themselves, it is no longer just civil disobedience.

I agree with you that the Houthi attack isn’t an example of this.

Cethin,

I didn’t say it can’t be peaceful, I just said it doesn’t have to be. That isn’t why it’s called that. Also, MLK’s protests were constantly called riots by the racist media at the time. No one should let the people in power define how they can decent, because they would decide you aren’t allowed to at all.

Landsharkgun,

Insert whatever word you prefer. Agitation, strong-arm tactics… go nuts.

Maggoty,

Attention seeking destruction.

Landsharkgun,

Yah, that works.

hypertext5689,

It’s literally in the name - “civil”! Do words not mean anything to these bots?

Skua,

Bulgaria

dangblingus,

Boy I sure am glad that I’ve completely removed 99% of consumerist plastic from my life, never get take out, and heavily reduced my meat intake in order to help the environment.

RememberTheApollo_,

Double disaster. The leaking petroleum is an obvious problem, but the nitrogen in the fertilizer will really fuck some things up too. Wonder if will make a giant dead zone.

Wahots,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

That’s going to fuck up the entire ecosystem if it does cause a giant bloom. Bad for fishing, too.

JustUseMint,

Hit em with the old “proportional response” CENTCOM https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e9be8eba-7c30-469f-999f-79fb15c30210.png

livus,
livus avatar

This is especially annoying because 6 months ago there was an amazing collaboration between both sides in the Red Sea to enable an international team to remove oil from a wrecked tanker.

All the people involved thought it was a great framework for more peaceful negotiations.

But now Israel has got its genocide on the Houthis are kicking off and saving the environment is no longer anyone's priority.

TigrisMorte,

Please note it is not so much Israel as Nyet N' Yahoo. This is the work of a desperate criminal trying to remain in power.

Maggoty,

And then 72 percent of Israelis say aid shouldn’t be allowed in until prisoners are released.

I’m sorry. But starving people en masse is not it. It’s time to treat Israel the same way we treated Germany. Disarm, occupy, hang the war criminals, and force a government representative of everyone from the river to the sea. And yes that means an end to their ethnostate. That’s the point. They’ve fucked around. It’s time for the find out.

TigrisMorte,

72% of the people they asked. Lots of Israelis are not happy with this war.

Nudding,

Lot of Americans don’t like trump.

TigrisMorte,

Lot of people like Coors.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

This has been going on for 75 years. The problem is not Netanyahu. The problem is Zionism.

Maggoty,

Yeah. It looks like around 28 percent. Unfortunately that’s not enough. When 2/3rds of a country believes in Genocide the world needs to intervene.

derf82,

Israel is guilty for what it’s doing, but blaming Israel for these Houthi attacks is ridiculous.

The Houthis are self serving in these attacks. As they have claimed land, support has turned against them because it turns out they suck at providing services to the people that live in areas they control. So they are falling back to the one popular policy they have: supporting Palestinians, and fighting back against “imperialists.”

Except attacking ships in the Red Sea is doing nothing for the Palestinians. Maybe if they only targeted Israeli vessels of ships heading to/from there, but they are not. Even getting bombed has an upside as it reinforces their underdog anti-imperialist messaging.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

All your talking points were debunked more than a month ago in this short interview.

“To those who claim that we do it for our popularity, let them come forth and enhance their own popularity”

xor,

Ahhh the houthis said it wasn’t true, well glad that’s resolved then 👍

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Man on side of Genocide says people against Genocide bad.

More news at 11.

xor,

I’m not saying you should uncritically accept the statement of whoever you’re referring to (presumably biden)

But that is equally true for the houthis as well

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The Houthi’s stopped attacking civilian ships during the temporary ceasefire in November.

Biden says he wants israel to stop committing war-crimes and then bypasses congress to send israel more tank shells and mortar explosives which are primarily used to blow up houses in Gaza…

Actions mean everything. Words mean nothing. Biden wants to commit Genocide and the Houthi’s want to stop Genocide.

xor,

But the houthis continue to attack civilian vessels again.

One can both oppose the US’ (horrifying) support of Israel’s genocide, and also criticise the indiscriminate targeting of civilian vessels by the houthis.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. Because israel broke the ceasefire

There is nothing indiscriminate about it. They only target ships from nations participating in the Genocide of Palestinians. Their ships are illegally trespassing until a ceasefire is reached.

The Houthi’s have done an outstanding job at selective targeting and upholding international law. Meanwhile you are here advocating for Genocide.

xor, (edited )

I’m aware of why they continue the strikes - but I take issue with the strikes themselves.

The problem is the ships targeted are frequently not linked whatsoever to Israel, or its supporters. The houthis are attacking ships far outside the entire Yemeni exclusive economic zone, so no, the ships in international waters are not trespassing.

Targeting civilian ships, especially those unrelated to the conflict, is absolutely unacceptable. Additionally, their approach directly drives up food prices, which disproportionately affects those most affected by food scarcity, including but not limited to the Palestinians themselves.

you are here advocating for genocide

Oh get the fuck out of it. I directly oppose Israel’s war on Gaza, and frequently attend protests against my own country’s support of them.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

No the ships are virtually all linked to israel (and more recently also America and Britain since they started bombing Yemen).

I have debunked this myth like 50 times by now but if you fancy just name one ship and I can show you how it was linked very quickly.

I have only seen one single instance of false targeting; a ship going to Russia that used to be British owned half a year ago which was falsely fired at because the Houthi’s used an outdated ownership list.

Also good job on going to protests that’s highly commendable and praiseworthy.

xor, (edited )

Sophie II, Japanese, flying Panamanian flag.

Ardmore Encounter, Bermudan, Marshall islands flag. An Israeli previously held shares of the company that owns this one, but had divested months before.

Maersk Gibraltar, Danish, Hong Kong flag.

Al Jasrah, German, Liberian flag.

MSC Palatium III, Swiss, Liberian flag. The company that owns this one had “cooperated with Israel” in the past, though I don’t know the extent of this cooperation.

Swan Atlantic, Norwegian, Cayman Islands flag.

MSC Clara, Swiss, Panamanian flag.

Blaamanen, Norwegian owner & flag. This ship was carrying vegetable oil, which would have been an environmental crisis if damaged, and is critical to food supply.

Saibaba, Indian, Gabonese flag.

MSC United VIII, Swiss, Liberian flag.

Maersk Hangzhou, Danish, Singaporean flag. The Israeli “link” for this one is that it has shipped to Israel before, last in October 2023.

These are just the non-israeli-linked ships attacked in Nov/Dec 2023 alone. I can’t be arsed to go through Jan and Feb 24 because I’m deeply bored.

In the window I covered, 19 ships were attacked. Assuming I haven’t missed any connections for the ones above, that makes a total of 11 non-Israeli-linked and 8 Israeli-linked ships. I’m including US ships as Israeli-linked as an upper bound.

Giving us a total percentage of 42% of ships being Israeli-linked.

Thanks for the praise, but frankly I’m not looking for it. I’m still not super pleased you played the “genocide supporter” card. I would much prefer an apology for that uncalled for statement.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Sophie II is a British-owned ship

Britain is on the no-go list since they started bombing Yemen to defend israel’s Genocide. As is America.

Initially they were not on the list. They put themselves on there.

You can’t seriously expect Yemen to let through ships from countries actively at war with them right?

Have fun googling the rest of the list yourself.

Saying that what the Houthi’s is doing is wrong is actively defending Genocide. I will not retract that statement.

The way that we ended the Apartheid in South Africa is by economic pressure, sanctions and boycotts. No different than what the Houthi’s are doing right now.

xor, (edited )

What are you quoting? All sources I’ve read concur that it’s Japanese owned (it is owned by Kyowa Shipping, based in Tokyo).

What happened to “I’ll tell you how they’re secretly linked”? That was the entire purpose of this exercise. You had clearly accepted that targeting unrelated ships is unacceptable, yet failed to actually provide any evidence that the ships, which make up the majority of those attacked, were legitimate targets.

If the houthis were consistently actually targeting Israeli ships then my stance would be different.

Apartheid was not defeated by attacking Japanese ships for a bit of banter, was it, though?

It turns out, entities can claim a different reason for taking an action to their actual goals.

Saying that what the Houthi’s is doing is wrong is actively defending Genocide

I’ve made it extraordinarily clear that my issue is not with the goal of blockading Israeli ships, but with the fact that this is not actually what is happening. If you’re not even going to pretend to debate in good faith, then we’re done here.

Edit: You know I absolutely do not support Israel’s genocide, and actively support BDS actions against it. To argue I’m defending their genocide is what we in the business call “a dick move”.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Wait you are correct my bad. I was checking the HRW site and misread that it was UK as it was grouped in with a few others

According to several media outlets and the US Defense Department, the Houthis on December 3 attacked two other bulk cargo carriers, Unity Explorer and Number 9, and a container ship, AOM Sophie II, with missiles and drones. Unity Explorer and Number 9 are owned and operated by two different UK-based companies, while Sophie II is owned and operated by a Japanese company. The UK company that owns Unity Explorer may be owned by an Israeli businessman, but it is unclear. Unity Explorer is registered in the Bahamas, while Number 9 and Sophie II are registered in Panama. All three vessels are commercial ships and were carrying civilian crews from several countries. None of the ships were bound for Israel.

What I can find about AOM Sophie ii is: Registered Owner 1 : KYOWA KISEN CO., LTD. 2 : GREEN SPANKER SHIPPING S.A.

Kisen seems to be Japanese but Green Spanker is weird. It sounds like a merger between companies called Green and Spanker but the owner is supposedly also Japanese. There is a shipping company called Spanker which is registered in HK but does seem to have ties to London

Dato Capital has the registry of Green Spanker

In the related list it shows multiple companies with the Spanker and Green name, involved in shipping

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6fe70974-893b-4d1d-ad95-dc5abcd00436.png

According to the Dato Capital Green Spanker is two companies, however I would need to purchase a 30 bucks document and that’s a step too far for me

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e8153cf8-cb43-4259-8338-a208d7bbf61f.png

TLDR: There seem to be similarly named UK companies that might be linked, and there’s a lot of British naming, but I have not been able to obtain direct evidence as obtaining that document costs 30 bucks. I’m going to tap out on AOM Sophie II screw Panama.

I understand that your issue is with the Houthi’s attacking non combatant ships (of which the majority have still been linked to banned countries) but it remains one of the most direct way to put global economic pressure on the world to stop the Genocide in Gaza. Our governments are incentivized by money they do not care about human lives. When the pockets start hurting they suddenly start finding solutions.

xor, (edited )

It’s not unusual for Japanese companies that trade internationally to have English names that sound strange.

So it’s a joint venture between two Japanese companies, meaning it is not a valid target - in fact Japan has been highly critical of Israel iirc.

42% is not a majority - and it’s most certainly nowhere near your initial description of “almost all” except for that one mistake.

And yet you still consider me a supporter of genocide for criticising the targeting of innocent civilians.

I understand that sanctions can be effective but they must be appropriately targeted.

As sad as it may be, it’s very common for nations to act in their own interest under the guise of doing something noble. Assuming that all countries that side with an oppressed party are acting purely out of the goodness of their heart is an easy way to find yourself supporting a country doing appalling things for their own benefit. A broken clock etc.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I understand that sanctions can be effective but they must be appropriately targeted.

You are very correct in that statement

I had checked around 8 hit ships linked before and almost all all had ties to israel but those usually just come up if it receives big damage. The first Galaxy Leader was also told not to be linked to israel but was owned by israeli business man Rami Ungar.

The two hit last week were supposedly Greece-based firm Star Bulk Carriers Corp. But that turned out to be a US-listed company And UK registered Rubymar of the current post took a massive hit but that was also a valid target.

Strinda was also initially claimed as just going to italy but had a stop planned in israel right after. These are just a few examples were all initially claimed to have no links and subsequently actually had some.

Because ships have such a massive web of shell companies it’s really difficult to find out who actually owns and operates them. I just checked another random one from your list called Clara and the Houthi’s claim they gave the ship a warning which it ignored but direct links are not shown.

“The attack was launched after the two ships refused to obey orders of the Yemeni naval forces,” Saree added in a statement."

As sad as it may be, it’s very common for nations to act in their own interest under the guise of doing something noble.

Of course, everyone is just working in their own self-interest. This might be a great opportunity for the Houthi’s to “gain some rep” but the fact of the matter is they actually undertake action against israel’s Genocide by these costly disruptions. Though these ships you are linking are indeed concerning.

xor,

So, are we now agreed that one can criticise the houthis without being a “supporter of genocide”?

If so, I’ll take that apology now, please.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes I will apologize for that one, criticism on their targeting seems valid. Thank you for providing a list of evidence.

I do still support the goal of turning the Genocide in Gaza into a financial problem for all the parties involved, but it does look like non-involved parties have been targeted.

One caveat I still hold is that we often only hear of links to banned nations after major damage on a ship. But the burden of proof for that initially lies on the Houthi’s themselves. If Houthi’s don’t show how they believe a ship is linked to a banned nation, then they are not providing sufficient justification to attack it.

blazeknave,

And GOP want to eliminate democracy and replace it with autocratic theocracy. Stfu about Biden. You want a US to complain about?

You know when your asshole friend picks a fight and is completely in the wrong, and you hate them for it, but you gotta fuck up the other guys bc it’s your friend, but THEN you can whoop your friend’s ass?

That’s how fiscal conservatives held their nose and pulled the lever in 2016. If they can do it in spite of autocracy at home, you can do it for a decades long situation of which US policy is never going to change, as long as there are nukes in Iran.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

You know when your asshole friend picks a fight and is completely in the wrong, and you hate them for it, but you gotta fuck up the other guys bc it’s your friend, but THEN you can whoop your friend’s ass?

No I don’t know that one.

That’s how fiscal conservatives held their nose and pulled the lever in 2016.

So did Biden get elected in 2020 or not? We’ve heard this scary talk about Trump becoming a dictator before in 2016. Let me check who’s president right now…

blazeknave,

Shut up www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/02/…/gmpc-f26.htmlnewrepublic.com/…/jack-posobiec-democracy-cpac-20…

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

2016:

If Trump loses the election, that will not remove the threats and social changes that trigger the “action side” of authoritarianism. The authoritarians will still be there. They will still look for candidates who will give them the strong, punitive leadership they desire.

If bad Dems keep winning the right will only grow stronger. If Biden wins this time is a plausible reality as Biden is doing nothing to address any real problems and only gradually making things worse. Further bolstering Republicans.

Silentiea,

they have claimed land,

fighting back against “imperialists.”

Hey, I think I know how they can do that basically for free!

livus, (edited )
livus avatar

@derf82 I'm not "blaming Israel" for decisions taken by the Houthis. I don't really get why you'd take that from my comment.

Israelis made their own decisions.

Houthis proceeded to make their own decisions about how to respond to that too. I have no doubt that they are pursuing an agenda.

And the ecology of the Red Sea is no longer a priority for most people in the region because everyone has to make decisions based on what's happening.

SpaceCowboy,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

The old white man’s burden concept seems to have made a comeback.

You consider non-white people to be not responsible for their actions because you consider them to be savages that will naturally cause chaos unless under the guidance of the white man. If they are causing chaos it’s somehow the white man’s fault for not guiding them appropriately.

Personally I think the Houthis are responsible for their actions. Same with Hamas. Same with all the other psychopaths in the region. If you’re going to blame anyone besides these groups for their actions, then maybe consider Iran first.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

You’re right dude. Once Americans are the real victims of the war crimes they commit in the middle east.

And Genocide Joe is the victimest victim of them all

acceptable_pumpkin,

“GeNoCiDe JoE” is the new Let’s Go Brandon from the same alt-right trolls. I never see you fools criticizing Trump when he literally states he will be a dictator. Know what will happen in the Middle East? Same as now, except American arms and troops will directly be involved.

graymess,

Please pay attention this time, it’s getting old: Holding Democrats accountable for their support of genocide is not the same as supporting Republicans.

acceptable_pumpkin,

Agreed, but there are plenty people posting that they can’t vote for Biden because of the situation in Gaza. I get the criticism, and I wish we had a more progressive Democrat candidate, but given the reality of our options, not voting for Biden is akin to supporting Trump. In no reality would a Trump presidency be better for Palestinians, or frankly Americans, the West, etc.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    acceptable_pumpkin,

    Sure, a Trump win is in the DNC and not the “burn it to the ground” people that are all over the place here on Lemmie, or naive fools. Just remember to keep blaming the DNC when Trump wins and takes away all your rights. That’ll show them.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    In 2020 holding your nose and voting for Biden was one thing because he was supposed to be a milquetoast centrist, not a Genocidal maniac.

    graymess,

    No, not voting for Biden is not voting for Biden. I’m sure Biden is counting on your argument to get elected, but it’s not going to work. You can’t guilt the left into voting for a genocide supporter. If Biden loses, that’s on Biden and the Democrats. He and the DNC know what they can do if they want votes from anyone left of center.

    acceptable_pumpkin,

    Ok, but back in reality with the voting system in the US, that is exactly what happens. If you can’t comprehend how much worse Trump will be, that’s on you. The national election between Trump and Biden (which is who the candidates will be), not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. Use whatever logic you’d like, but that is what the actual effect is.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Keep repeating your slogans, doesn’t change the fact that Hamas deliberately murdered women and children on October 7, and the Houthis publicly crucify people.

    It’s obvious to anyone outside the bubble you live in how horrific the psychopaths you support really are.

    The Palestinians are the biggest victims of Hamas for sure, but the continued support of Hamas indicates you don’t actually care about Palestinians. You just want to hate Israelis.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    You know who deliberately murders children? Genocide Joe.

    livus,
    livus avatar

    @SpaceCowboy

    old white man's burden

    I think you might have replied to the wrong comment?

    If not, I don't understand how any of this applies. I suggest you read my link about the collaborative efforts in the Red Sea last year.

    bigMouthCommie,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >You consider non-white people to be not responsible for their actions because you consider them to be savages that will naturally cause chaos unless under the guidance of the white man. If they are causing chaos it’s somehow the white man’s fault for not guiding them appropriately.

    they didn't say any of this, but you did

    livus,
    livus avatar

    @bigMouthCommie I sort of thought they just replied to the wrong comment.

    Who even are the "white people" they are referring to?

    bigMouthCommie,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >Who even are the "white people" they are referring to?

    ghosts, i think.

    livus,
    livus avatar

    Woooo0Oo

    Seriously though I finally managed to find a comment where they lay out their thought process.

    Never having been to the US myself, I had no idea conservative Americans (or all Americans?) see Middle Easterners who live in Israel as "white".

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    But this is the thought pattern is it not?

    It’s not “hey these Houthi guys seem to be bad dudes.” It’s all about finding a way to blame others for the actions of this group.

    And when you consider it on a broader front this inability to criticize various groups and governments in the middle east doesn’t result in any improvements happening. The middle east is dominated by authoritarian psychopaths because there’s a refusal to put the spotlight on them. Because these psychopaths continuously get away with horrific acts because of white man’s burden style logic, there can’t be any real change.

    If the Houthis were criticized more for torturing people, maybe pressure can be put onto Iran to stop supplying weapons to them. If we considered Mister Bonesaw a little more responsible for his actions, maybe the horrific acts committed against the Houthis may not have happened.

    Sure we should criticize the US and Israel, but laying all blame on the perceived “white men” of the middle east has resulted in stagnant authoritarian power structures in the middle east. Well other than Israel of course, which will very likely dump Netanyahu in the next election, because they actually have those in Israel.

    The unhealthy fixation on the US and Israel (which the Houthis call for the deaths of both on their flag) means psychopaths like the Houthis maintain power. That same fixation that’s promoted on this site.

    bigMouthCommie,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    sounds to me like you've alreday decided you know what others think, so there isn't really any point in this discussion.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Kinda have to because you’re not telling me how you think. The Palestinian movement is just memes and slogans meant to justify their violent fervor and there isn’t a lot of rational thought going on.

    You can’t even refute that there’s a “white man’s burden” kind of thinking behind a lot of the memes in slogans, because that would mean thinking in terms of people in the middle east being responsible for their own actions, which opens up a can of worms you want to keep closed.

    At least I can only assume, because you aren’t able to write out your thoughts.

    bigMouthCommie,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    i don't think any conversation here is worth my time. that doesn't impugn my ability refute you.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    LOL ok

    livus,
    livus avatar

    @SpaceCowboy Aaaaah the penny finally dropped. I've been really perplexed by your reply to me.

    • I see the actions of the Houthis as something they do under their own agency

    • my focus was on Red Sea ecology and the amazing collaboration last year (which really was fantastic) I'm not going to rabbit on about various human rights abuses by many of the participants, I'd be there all day and it's not the focus of my comment.

    criticize the US and Israel, but laying all blame on the perceived “white men” of the middle east

    TIL you guys even think that way!!! Wow. In my country we do demographics by ethnicity. "Race" is quite a weird construct. I never realised the US has decided that one but it seems rather arbitrary.

    The part where you think I'm somehow criticizing the US is drawing a really long bow. I can kind of see how you might have projected the rest of what you thought onto my comment, but this is a bridge too far.

    Linkerbaan, (edited )
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    America Britain blows up all of Palestine but suddenly they really care about the environment when others try to stop them.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    You misspelled Israeli fuckheads using American weapons that were supplied by the dumb fuck in chief

    Linkerbaan, (edited )
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TWeaK,

    It isn’t an American ship, the ship has literally nothing to do with America.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Whoops my bad you are right. Thanks for correcting me.

    I read US central command and was confused thinking this was the Star Iris which was also attacked recently.

    I will correct my comments.

    notsofunnycomment, (edited )
    @notsofunnycomment@mander.xyz avatar

    Exactly. There is plenty of blame to put on the people who - in the face of a freaking climate crisis - still decide to ship shitloads shiploads of fossil fuel through a warzone.

    TWeaK,

    America isn’t blowing up Palestine. That is a fascist talking point, to try and shoehorn the US and NATO as the villains into any and every situation.

    kurwa,

    Where’d the bombs come from? Who fund’s the Israeli military?

    Nudding,

    America literally sends billions of dollars in arms and bombs to Israel. Who do you fucking think they use those on?

    Landsharkgun,

    Israel wouldn’t have a single fricking bullet without the funding of the US and other Western powers. It is very much America that is committing genocide in Palestine, we’re just letting someone else’s finger pull the trigger.

    TWeaK,

    It’s also someone else aiming the gun. You don’t charge the guy in Walmart for a customer shooting someone.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Actually if you supply weapons to people knowing they will murder others with them you will be held responsible.

    TWeaK,

    But if you supply them under the knowledge they will “defend themselves”, that doesn’t put you in trouble.

    Not saying I agree with Israel or the US providing them weapons, but there’s a bit of (perhaps bullshit) plausible deniability involved, and also the US is Israel’s ally so they’re supposed to support them in some manner (although I would say this should stop at providing naval support and generally protecting trade through the region, rather than providing weapons that are obviously being used for genocide).

    It must also be remembered that these are not donations, even though politicians seem to frame them that way. Weapons and support is provided under bilateral aid agreements - it is a two way deal, and one that almost always favours the country that’s giving. Israel is effectively taking out long term loans with the US to buy weapons.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Pleading ignorance worked wonders during Neurenberg trials right? Just following orders or something?

    ParsnipWitch,

    If they didn’t have the funding they would all be dead already because they are regularly under fire from rockets. Not only now, but also before the last attack of the Hamas.

    TheDankHold,

    This just in, different things have differences.

    aniki,

    Belize-flagged, UK-registered, Lebanese-owned vessel

    I have zero fucks to give.

    JackFrostNCola,

    About who owns or runs the ship? If this is the case i agree, doesnt matter whos ship it is, these dickheads are just polluting the environment for the sake of it.

    aniki,

    It’s just a thing. I don’t care.

    Ross_audio,

    The Houthis are trying to stop moving polluting ships through those waters. Are you blaming the ship or the ones trying to stop the ship?

    This isn’t about pollution or the environment, everyone knows that.

    Trying to shoehorn environmentalism as a justification to keep bombing Yemen is a hilarious mental leap into the abyss.

    Start by asking “the coalition” to clear up the depleted uranium they leave lying around the place in the middle east.

    squiblet,
    squiblet avatar

    Your belief is that the Houthis are doing this to stop pollution? I thought it was supposed to be on behalf of Palestinians.

    Ross_audio,

    I don’t believe that at all.

    I stated that as an absurdist position in comparison to the absurdist position of complaining about an oil slick in a war.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    So why do you believe that they are actually doing it?

    Ross_audio,

    You stating what I apparently believe is one of the red flags for someone not engaging in critical thinking.

    I’ve told you I don’t believe that, if you still believe I do you’re trying to construct an argument against the evidence.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    I am asking why you think the houthis are shooting the missiles.

    You said that you don’t believe their stated reason, so I am asking what you believe the reason is, the next question is why you believe that, I am asking your side and for evidence.

    No side in this is perfect by far, other than the innocents, who by definition have done nothing wrong

    I don’t see what reason the houthis have to lie about this, what would they have to gain by lying?

    Ross_audio,

    They wish to disrupt trade. And disrupt the narrative of the war.

    Evidence: they’re disrupting trade. We’re talking about this.

    My entire point is that pollution and article is irrelevant.

    No side is perfect but there’s one side who have ultimately orchestrated that part of the world to the place it’s in now.

    The US put the extremists in charge in Iran because of the Red scare.

    The US put the extremists in charge in Saudi Arabia for the oil supply.

    The US has supported Israel’s stance against any non-jew in creating an apartheid state.

    The US has given weapons to several sides.

    The US has directly bombed several countries.

    All while not supporting the Arab spring and grass roots push for democracy.

    “Not perfect” doesn’t cut it. The US is aggressively colonialist, just as the British were before them.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    Ah, agreed

    Edit: About the US

    ULS,

    BP.

    Kase,

    Yo can somebody tell me what this means/why it’s so heavily downvoted?

    livus,
    livus avatar

    @Kase omg is it downvoted, that's crazy.

    Here on kbin it's upvoted to + 7. Kbin doesn't federate downvotes so we don't see any downvotes given by lemmy users, only upvotes.

    ULS, (edited )

    Basically means nothing. I just said BP because BP has oil spills. It’s irrelevant.

    …noaa.gov/…/10-years-noaas-work-after-deepwater-h…

    Kase,

    Ah, that answers the first question. Thanks! :)

    GiuseppeAndTheYeti,

    What does this have to do with BP? A cargo ship was hit by a ballistic missile you fucking moron. Are you trying to suggest all cargo ships be retrofitted with missile defense systems or you just saying shit to be heard?

    ULS,

    BP.

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