How very evil of them. I personally don’t think smoking, or any other substances should be banned. But they just admitted they think they should be banned, but won’t ban them because they’d rather have the money. Exchanging people’s lives for profit.
Smoking is awful, disgusting, and through the diseases it causes puts a massive burden on the healthcare system… buuuut, educational campaigns to encourage people to stop and limiting it in media/banning advertisements is definitely the way to go over yet another prohibition law.
I think governments should always ban everything they don’t like. Next up: alcohol, candy and snacks. Then maybe bars, motor sports and sex for unmarried people.
educational campaigns to encourage people to stop and limiting it in media/banning advertisements is definitely the way to go
I don't really understand why you think New Zealand hasn't already done that. It banned all tobacco advertising decades ago. Including shops have to keep them out of sight and no signs.
Starting from the 1990s tobacco had to have gruesome pictures of diseased lungs, rotting diabetic toes, etc all over it, and health warnings.
Then they banned companies from using their own fonts, colours or logos and standardised it. Then they made the warnings take up all the pack.
Modern tobacco packs in New Zealand look like this and costs two hours' wages for just one packet.
There are gruesome PSAs about it as well.
Unfortunately it's highly addictive and it kills people.
So it’s conservative to refuse to ban tobacco? Do you agree with the general consensus that it’s also conservative to ban marijuana? How do you square those two attitudes, if so?
Tobacco causes mass amounts of death and warps entire societies and economies from killing so many older people. Also, massive tobacco companies break any law they want virtually and have for the entirety of their existence as massive corporations marketed cigarettes to kids.
So yes, I consider it conservative to refuse to ban tobacco and see no conflict with marijuana because marijuana doesn’t cause mass amounts of death and suffering (and before you say it does, give me proof).
What is concerning about spliff is the tendency to facilitate descent into abnormal mental states.
I enjoy good relations with a few healthcare professionals and the general consensus is, at this point, spliff has more potential benefits to explore than bad effects, so it makes sense to explore it, never overlooking the continuous use has been linked with some serious mental inbalances and even some physical syndromes.
Just a few days ago, here, on Lemmy, there was a lemming talking about a strange condition where continuous use over decades can trigger extremer pain and discomfort episodes, due to deposit of substances on fat tissue.
Tobacco is a proven killer, yes, but who knows what weird side effets we may be yet to discover connected with mary jane.
Tobacco is a proven killer, yes, but who knows what weird side effets we may be yet to discover connected with mary jane.
I am sure there are weird effects to uncover with modern science, but it isn’t like people just started smoking weed and nobody knows what happens to people who smoke weed their whole lives… and the consequences are quite clearly a universe away from alcohol and tobacco.
It’s conservative to bend over and spread `em for the benefit of the owning class at the expense of everyone else - chiefly the workers those politicians claim to represent.
Others have pointed out the gaping differences in the health outcomes (including the burden that places on the healthcare system), addiction rates, etc.
You said they’re providing tax cuts for the bottom 3 brackets when the reality is that that don’t make a jot of difference for anyone but that rich. I don’t take an issue with your assertion that that the tax cuts exist, i take exception to you implying that it especially targets the lowest brackets
From memory minimum wage earners get something like $25 per week, which I know isn’t much. Middle income earners ($120k+ combined) get $120 per fortnight back. People earning over $80k don’t get any additional cuts.
Their policy specifically states tax cuts for the bottom 3 brackets. I don’t know why the calculator isn’t showing any cuts for min wage.
The part you seem to be misunderstanding is that by stopping people at “a young age” you would be targeting non-voters. You are taking rights away from a future generation while protecting the current voting adults to have that same right. Even if that right is to slowly kill yourself while costing the tax payer, you are still being a coward and honestly a bit authoritarian by literally using a part of the population that has no voice instead of a full ban.
FDA’s job is to tell corporations what they can and can’t put in your body. You’re still welcome to seek out those poisons and consume them. Cigarettes should be no different.
Agree with this. All the pro weed and pro other drug people need to realize they are making the opposite argument to support banning smoking. All substances carry some intrinsic risk and the externalities must be managed, but its up to consenting adults to make their own choices about what they will consume.
There have been more than 10 years of targetted ads telling Maori not to smoke, appealing to specifically Maori concepts like whanau and manaaakitanga.
What the people in this thread don't realise is that this law was part of Smokefree Aotearoa, an initiative invented by The Maori Party (a party whose main voters are Maori) to gradually phase out smoking.
I think it’s more that pro-smoking plays better with their right wing voter base than taxes. That and the fact that ciggies can still be bought, so the younger generation will still be able to get them. I mean, it being illegal has never stopped any drug. The best way to get rid of smoking is just to ramp up the tax and wait for everyone to take up something cheaper. Even the most hardened smoker at my work now vape instead. Not amazing for you, but got to be better than inhaling all the crap in cigarettes.
Only the mega rich have a solid reason for caring about tax cuts. Everybody else should be clamouring for better services, as that is what will really be cut to give those billionaires more money to hoard.
I’ve always supported this approach too but I have to wonder… is there a point where it gets taxed so high that people will just go back to the black market? What would prevent anyone from going black (heh) if it’s cheaper than the legal option?
There’s already plenty of black market ciggies in both NZ and AU. Just watch one of the border patrol shows and every second person they catch is a suitcase full of cigarettes.
The black market in australia is huge. Almost everyone i see smoking at work or at pubs is smoking black market cigarettes or using illegal vapes. If they crack down on the black market i expect to see a large rise in robberies of shops selling cigarettes. The taxes have gone too far. This is also why they won’t ban smoking. Billions in tax revenue.
Perhaps it’s not the right to harm ones self that’s the issue. Should you have the right to manufacture, sell, and profit from harm to others? Be it environmental, oral health, lung health, or heart health, cigarettes are a net negative to any citizenry. Seems in a governments best interest to try and greatly reduce and/or eliminate this leech.
Unlike cigarettes, cannabis has medical uses and is not nearly as harmful especially if you don’t smoke it (vaping or edibles). It’s not completely safe (hardly any drug is) but it’s on a different level of safe compared to tobacco.
New Zealand, highly conservative about drug use, driving, security and relationships, yet will also go to ridiculous lengths to show how cleaning with a wet mop could be better than with a broom, or using one extra layer of building paper is absolutely essential for the structural integrity of the very work flow process that the entire company follows and is actually part of the new management SIX SIGMA protocol.
Me: “dude, don’t do it, the last guy who touched that broom, he got lost, we haven’t seen him since, but now the brooms come back”
The thing I find hilarious is that a few weeks ago, when there was talk of the UK doing the same sort of thing, everyone was pointing to this legislation as an example of how it has worked elsewhere.
It didn’t even last a year! All it’s done is slightly annoyed a handful of teenagers for a few months.
It was 2020. It’s honestly been interesting to see. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31348515/ is a study from before 2020 stating that 4% less of 18-20 year olds smoked when the age limit is increased to 21. I couldn’t find any specifics on Washington state though.
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