I’ll start! There was a lot of absolutist rhetoric there that said things along the lines of “All Christians are terrible, horrible, no good, very bad people!” I think a little nuance is in order, no?
I personally have adopted an “as long as it’s not hurting anyone” view of religions for individuals and smaller local groups, but I recognize that there’s a lot of factual hurtfulness that goes on systemically. That inherently will try and make this community devolve into intolerance, so there’s a tricky balance of moderating intolerance and welcoming open conversations that I don’t have the answer to.
Full disclosure, I’ve been labeled as an astroturfer because of my optimism for Threads federating. So, take that as you will.
But I think that there’s a lot more nuance to it than what you’ve said. I personally don’t defend Threads, but I do defend Threads federating. I’m on Lemmy specifically because I don’t want to be on Threads. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want to connect with Threads content and users.
For me, it was the top google result for “Reddit Alternative”. There was a github post explaining the basics of Lemmy and essentially said if I wasn’t sure where to sign up, just head over to lemmy.world.
Now that I’m here I can safely say the interface feels like an improved old.reddit.com and am quite pleased.
There’s a specific comment I’m trying to reply to in the lemmy.world/c/games community, agreeing with how much I love a game they mentioned. But after drafting the message, on mobile it just acts like I haven’t pressed the button. On desktop, there’s and endless loading circle....
Mine has to be Dragon Quest: Rocket Slime, a DS spin off of the Dragon Quest series that sees you playing as a slime operating a tank and rescuing the people from your town. You run around the overworld, collecting items to use as ammunition and saving money to upgrade your tank. The art and music are just as great as you’d...
Hey guys. I admittedly am mostly a layman to the Fediverse as a concept. So I am coming into this post with the knowledge that I don’t understand the technical intricacies of it....
I came over as a Reddit refugee, and really like the idea of fostering communities with like-minded individuals. That’s why I have founded 5 already, which replicate what I was missing from Reddit.
The last few comments directly before/after this post are the result of continuing my full train of thought, looking for clear answers, in a more visible format than the comments of a lemmy.ca post. From what I understood about the fediverse, I was surprised to see communities blindly defederating when it didn’t seem to be fully thought through (although I admittedly am new here, so I may just not understand). But that was the impetus of my questions.
As of me writing this comment, I have not found understandable answers to my questions yet.
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I did read all of it, and was planning on responding to each individual point, but it all kind of melded into one combined thought.
I guess from what I’m thinking, it’s sounding like this is the pessimistic expectation:
Threads will do all that they can to entice people onto their platform.
They will go for people with low standards of privacy and high expectations of networking, and try and win them over with features.
Once they’ve been won over, they become Meta’s product, and once they have enough products they will cut ties and leave us high and dry.
But, if we “make a stand” against it now, because we expect to be a frog in boiled water if we don’t, how exactly does that improve the above outlook? We’ve walled the garden for them. The people with lower standards will be won over by default.
I guess it may just be a difference of opinion, where you think it protects us, but in my view it just makes the decision easier for those individuals since they are forced to choose. I’m thinking that with coexistence comes the opportunity to rip users of similar ideologies over to our side while Threads grows.
I guess anytime I say “we”, I mean people who value freedom, privacy, self-reliance, and decentralization. The kinds of people who the Fediverse purports to attract. I guess my questions mainly stem from a lack of understanding of how blind defederation is supposed to be a tactic to protect people who I’ve classified as the group “we”. We’re not going to ever go to threads. Others here may, because they are willing to forfeit their personal data, but not us.
Most of the sentiment I’ve seen demanding defederation seems to imply that our group and ideologies of freedom/privacy/self-reliance will be undermined by the mere connection with the Threads userbase. You mention that people on Threads will likely stay on Threads. Why would we expect differently for “us” staying on non-corporate Fediverse?
What I do know is that the concept of the Fediverse is very novel for the vast majority of people, even to people who value their freedom (but just hasn’t thought to look, or what to look for). That will not be the case much longer now that the big guys have stepped in.
I guess it boils down to pessimism vs optimism. In my optimistic view (even with a pessimistic understanding of corporates greed) there’s no harm in establishing the connection and playing it by ear as an opportunity to educate. And if we “wall the garden” for them, I don’t see how that would protect the Fediverse, aside from perhaps preventing new flavors of content.
It’s not the company I’m interested in connecting with, it their users. If my friend opts to join Threads, I won’t be holding him against Meta’s collaboration with Rohingya’s genocide, but would love to still be able to interact directly with their content (and vice versa).
Not quite sure how to get you past feeling like I’m astroturfing. I guess take a look at my 11 years of Reddit history under the same username?
Also, how can you claim I can’t comprehend your points if this is your first comment you’ve sent me 😅
To clarify, my post is trying to highlight that Threads will exist with or without us. If they want to join the Fediverse, and we refuse and wall their garden for them, that does nothing to stop their growth and profit immensely. However, we lose the opportunity to connect with their users and content, and we lose any chance we have to convince them off of Threads. If they remain federated, we can offer the identical content they’re used to while promoting privacy and self reliance.
I’m new to federation as a concept, but isn’t the only thing you accomplish from defederating Threads is that this community will miss the opportunity to grow its userbase? Isn’t the whole point of the fediverse that anyone can be anywhere and access anything from anywhere else?
If so, the only people who come out behind are the people signing up on Threads specifically, who are granting every piece of personal data to Meta. But people signed up on other instances are protected.
As far as I understand, the existing fediverse is not at risk of anything, correct?
But isn’t the core design of the fediverse resistant, if not immune, to those sorts of tactics? Should Threads be allowed in the federation, the only thing they can do is defederate, right? That means we may get used to the increased userbase and become disappointed when a large chunk of their traffic goes dark, but the remaining fediverse will have grown and benefited until then.
Good-faith question for you admins to laymen like myself; what do you believe you are protecting yourselves from by blocking Threads? Isn’t the nature of the Fediverse resistant, if not immune, to corotate shenanigans? Isn’t the only thing you’re accomplishing by defederating Theads is that you’re just making yourselves invisible to a large userbase who are too lazy to care about their own personal data?
But… if we defederate now, won’t we just be trying to create a walled garden of a tiny userbase?
If the goal is to grow the non-corporate Fediverse and encourage privacy and self-hosting, I would imagine that the best way to do that is to connect with the corporate Fediverse and proselytize the benefits of moving off of Threads. In the end, the non-corporate federation will grow immensely, I imagine. Whereas if we cut ourselves off now, I fear we will actually drive people to Threads, and make it nearly impossible to convince people to get off of Threads.
Hmm, perhaps. Although if we never federate in the first place, I guess we’ll never know. It seems like if we tested the waters, what we could gain could far outweigh what we could lose, and we could always cut the line if we see it clearly isn’t working out.
Yeah I’m assuming they’re operating is as-bad of faith as possible myself.
As far as moderating their users, I’m don’t necessarily know to what extent you mean. But I would assume that since they’re a publicly traded company who wants to foster their relationships with ad providers, that they wouldn’t let it devolve into something newsworthy; that’s bad for business.
Sorry if I’m repeating myself too much (I mentioned this in another comment below), but if the goal is to grow the non-corporate Fediverse and encourage privacy and self-hosting, I would imagine that the best way to do that is to connect with the corporate Fediverse and proselytize the benefits of moving off of Threads. If we tested the waters and decided it wasn’t for us after some interaction, I imagine the non-corporate federation could grow immensely by that point. Whereas if we cut ourselves off now, I fear we will actually drive people to Threads, and make it nearly impossible to convince people to get off of Threads.
I’m aware of that concept, but I’m having a hard time understanding how that applies to the Fediverse. It seems like we have an inherent protection from that tactic, even if we disregard defederation as an option.
That actually doesn’t seem to give any context of HOW it could work for the Fediverse. All I see is “we are certain to lose”, but doesn’t go into what sort of mechanisms or tactics could be implemented to do a takeover.
What from r/atheism at the old place do we want to avoid here in c/atheism?
I’ll start! There was a lot of absolutist rhetoric there that said things along the lines of “All Christians are terrible, horrible, no good, very bad people!” I think a little nuance is in order, no?
Why people keep defending Meta/Threads?
(Sorry for bad english not my first language)...
What do you think is responsible for lemmy’s growth over other alternatives like KBin and Tildes?
Is it speed? Features? Ease of development? Just curious why lemmy is seeing more activity as opposed to other networks.
It is 2023, Please stop blowing into Nintendo Consoles (kotaku.com)
I really can’t believe folks are doing this on electronics that aren’t sealed 😂
[Solved] Is there anything funky going on with comment replies?
There’s a specific comment I’m trying to reply to in the lemmy.world/c/games community, agreeing with how much I love a game they mentioned. But after drafting the message, on mobile it just acts like I haven’t pressed the button. On desktop, there’s and endless loading circle....
18+ The ALL timeline is supposed to be weird / have content you don't like
I don’t think instance admin should mute or block communities just because people don’t like that some content shows up on their ALL timeline....
What's your favorite game you never hear anybody talk about?
Mine has to be Dragon Quest: Rocket Slime, a DS spin off of the Dragon Quest series that sees you playing as a slime operating a tank and rescuing the people from your town. You run around the overworld, collecting items to use as ammunition and saving money to upgrade your tank. The art and music are just as great as you’d...
Some good-faith questions of some seemingly apparent benefits of a potential Corporate Fediverse, and the detriments of defederating from a Corporate Fediverse. Could I get some answers?
Hey guys. I admittedly am mostly a layman to the Fediverse as a concept. So I am coming into this post with the knowledge that I don’t understand the technical intricacies of it....
Are we defederating from Threads?
I’ve seen that some instances have already done it preemptively.
Starbucks notification settings — only 1: "promotions and order status" (lemmy.world)
Calculating 25 minutes by burning 2 inconsistently burning 1-hour ropes
Calculating 25 minutes by burning 2 inconsistently burning 1-hour ropes...