mastodonmigration

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@FediThing @rysiek @boud @lightone @hrefna @tchambers @Lucinda @ramsey @strypey @feditips

Just spit-balling here, but maybe rather than assume this will be a showstopper issue, we could get a pro-active proposal together and ask him?

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mastodonmigration, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

@FediThing @rysiek @boud @lightone @hrefna @tchambers @Lucinda @ramsey @strypey @feditips

This explainer is great, but the practical issue is that the world and the media are aware of Mastodon, but not the Fediverse.

It is a pretty high hill to climb, from a marketing point of view, to both introduce a new platform name and get new users to sign up, particularly if the objective is to "reduce friction" in the sign up process.

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mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@rysiek @tchambers Perhaps "fracturing the fediverse" is a poor choice of words. What Tim seems to be advocating generally is positive actions like his round robin portal idea to approach new users. Everyone seems to be on the same side here.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@tchambers @rysiek The alternative portal idea seems like a really good one. Let's see if we can get some momentum behind it. It could also serve the purpose of generally promoting Mastodon and the Fediverse as the real open distributed social media platform, a concept which has some currency these days. Don't think it is controversial to say, PR has not been Mastodon GmbH's strong suit. What do you think?

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@tchambers @FediThing @Lucinda @ramsey @strypey @rysiek @feditips Absolutely. This is a great idea. There is really no reason why joinmastodon.org has to be the only portal into Mastodon.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@FediThing @rysiek @boud @lightone @hrefna @tchambers @Lucinda @ramsey @strypey @feditips

Also, the software is called Mastodon. It seems like there is no avoiding using the name when getting people to sign up for the service.

It would be good to understand more about this trademark restriction and why you think it would be a problem. Would you anticipate Eugen opposing some sort of open instance group providing an alternative portal, and demand that it not use the name Mastodon?

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mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@feditips @daniel Generally support your campaign here, but it would be much better to encourage people to move to smaller instances for the many reasons you spell out very well than to try to make them afraid that mastodon.social will be isolated, which simply is not going to happen.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@bhawthorne @feditips @daniel Sorry if it it was not clear. Exactly the opposite. By organization here, what is meant is some sort of group of instance operators and users that together have the weight to promote the principles of restricting the concentration of the Fediverse. It is one thing for individual efforts like feditips to advocate alone, but it would hold much more sway if there were some sort of coordinated effort to address the matter.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@rysiek Will do. Thank you for the recommendation, and apologies for the misuse of the term.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@bhawthorne @feditips @daniel @Gargron A clear and sufficient consensus among instances and users through organization would give recommendations some force. In addition, there would be actions that the group could take, or threaten to take that would help to compel the goals of the organization. If you really want to threaten m.s with defederation due to too much concentration, get a sufficient segment of the Fediverse on board and make the threat explicit.

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#moderation #concentration

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

@bhawthorne @feditips @daniel Fedi.Tips @feditips https://fedi.garden/ is an excellent resource and should be used in conjunction with reaching out to new users to help educate them on their myriad exciting options. Let's get people excited about moving around the Fediverse.

What else could we do?

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#moderation #concentration

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

@bhawthorne @feditips @daniel We can get organized. You are already doing some of this, and great credit to your efforts, because organizing in the Fediverse is like hearding cats. But if you really want to get @Gargron 's attention and collaboration in efforts to control concentration of the Fediverse, other major stakeholders need to come together and approach him with constructive recommendations for how to control concentration while fostering growth.

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#moderation #concentration

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@jwildeboer @Gargron That is because they hackers are currently targeting mastodon.social. The next attack could be against another instance. Would the extra work then be caused by that instance. No. In both cases it is caused by the hackers. What they want to do is to get us blaming each other, when it is the invader that is at blame.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@bhawthorne @feditips @daniel Get what you are saying here, but trying to frighten new users is not the way to get what you are after. In fact, it is counterproductive to your very important cause and bad for the Fediverse generally. Let's look at the objective. It is much better for the future of the Fediverse if users are not concentrated in one, or even a few large instances. Currently, new users are being funneled into mastodon.social. So, what's the challenge?

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#moderation #concentration

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@daniel @feditips Regarding the "not at risk" statement. People on mastodon.social are simply not at risk of being permanently fediblocked isolated from large parts of the Fediverse. They simply are not, and to suggest they are is a scare tactic.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@jwildeboer @Gargron Absolutely!

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@bhawthorne @feditips @daniel @Gargron It should never come to this, of course, and not advocating a confrontational approach. We are all in this together and the principle of distributed systems and strong community are powerful motivators. But getting organized to advocate for the principles of the open Fediverse seems like a necessary first step to help guide our growth going forward.

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#moderation #concentration

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@jwildeboer @Gargron Seems like a great suggestion.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@bassim Thank you too! Truly believe we have a chance to build something very special and consequential for our collective futures here. It's not often ordinary people get such an opportunity. We can do this if we continue to work together and solve problems with a spirit of community, good will, hope and understanding.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@feditips @daniel Again, your work on this issue is commendable. But misleadingly telling people they will be isolated if they don't move, will not help your cause.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@mikka @Gargron Good points about risks associated with too much concentration. For the Fediverse to grow successfully as an open network this will be a major issue. Likewise, your experience and insight into other systems and what makes a good administrator vs. developer is certainly pertinent. The megalomaniacal conflation of Musk and Eugen at this point seems like a stretch, but guess we will find out. In any case, complete agreement on the need to the address max size and concentration.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@cmonster @feditips This is certainly one of the suggestions, and there is absolutely no technical reason it would not work.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

@mikka @Gargron This is your opinion. Not sure how you have this insight into his motivations and plans, but you are certainly free to voice your concerns. Whatever is inside his mind, we are going to need to reconcile how big an instance can reasonably be from a technical perspective and what percentage of the Fediverse is too much concentration of power and influence. We need to have these discussions, and there are plenty of forums where these issues are being raised.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@billyjoebowers It's a good analog. A good way to think about the Fediverse is as a bunch of interconnected cities, towns and villages. Governance of each locality has its own complexities, and requires different resources, but they all have a common need to stop bad actors and maintain good communication amongst themselves about threats to public safety.

mastodonmigration, 1 year ago

@bhawthorne @feditips @daniel The challenge is to communicate the value proposition to new users, once they get their bearings. As they say, you catch more flies with honey than with poop. Educating new users about the amazing benefits (longer post lengths, more or less restrictive moderation, community) of the Fediverse that they can unlock by opening accounts on other smaller instances is a positive approach that will bear more fruit.

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#moderation #concentration