I had this solution in mind for #Mastodon on #iOS, but I guess its somewhat transferrable to #PixelFed too if you are willing to maintain a list of instances.
We do maintain a list of instance that are used in the app, but we only have a few generic categories so maybe I'll work on improving the pixelfed.org Directory to support more categories and implement something like that design.
My suggestion might need some improvements, but as a starting point; I think its okay.
I like that it avoids speaking about servers and federation and just asks people to pick a username - something everyone can understand. 😎
Alternative servers are just a click away, and you get a little preview of what that server is about before you confirm your selection - so you can quickly switch again if it wasn't what you expected.
@dragfyre Since the official #Mastodon app is not going to implement this, any other third-party app developers should feel free to steal it and try it out if they like the idea.
Maybe someone could run it on their TestFlight / Beta channel to get some feedback from users?
@matt I understand you want to avoid talking about federation and I get why, but I imagine it would be good to (somehow) mention one can change servers easily... I've noticed that many people were overwhelmed with signing up because they were worried the server choice mattered too much (they wouldn't be able to talk to people on another instance).
I don't know how to communicate this without scaring people with "fedi talk", but if we could find some balance, I think that'd help.
@bugbear I agree - but I think that can come later. I could imagine that you sign up and we get the user into the app.
The first-run experience thereon can explain that you can change your server/username. It doesn't need to be bundled in pre-signup. It can be attacked post-signup.
@dansup@pixelfed This looks vary nice @matt, much better then what is currently being done, the only worry I have here if the second dropdown is preselected without an explanation of what it means then why would someone unfamiliar with the nature of how instances work change to another instance?
@matt@dansup@pixelfed I think if it was randomized that would solve most of my concerns. Actually as opposed to randomized what it it was like slowly scrolling through options until you clicked on it, either linearly like a stock ticker or like it was a rolodex. And then when you clicked on it, it would either stopped right then or showed a drop down or search field.
@matt hmm the screen reader situation is definitely a good one to consider, though tbf I think what you have in the third screenshot would already not really work well for a screen reader, as it would just read a never ending list of thousands of servers you could scroll through. I think asking people who use screen readers on a daily basis for ideas for this case would be the best bet to get ideas that neither of us are going to even think of.
@matt@dansup@pixelfed because of the in-familiarity of people joining with the idea that a username is locked to a server (with email the only thing most people have used with this type of pattern) this interface still does not show the weight of this decision. Also most other things that people are familiar with (like instagram) allow changing of the actual username later, and thus would be under the assumption that this could always be changed later without loosing all their content.
@liaizon@dansup@pixelfed I personally don't think that needs to be explained up-front. I try to avoid anything that will start to explain the technology to avoid a steep learning curve.
Migrating account is possible for Mastodon and that user-experience also needs some improvements on the design front.
I'd say the priority here is getting people in the door and lowering the barrier of entry for sign-up (whilst also trying to keep a decentralised service).
@matt@dansup@pixelfed Even for Mastodon migrating accounts means you loose all your history and the fact that one doesn't now that until its basically too late is a really big issue. I personally think growth of the network should not take priority over health of the network and the idea of funneling people into servers without their understanding of what that means is very unhealthy for the fediverse.
@liaizon I am not disagreeing with you here - I think educating users is important. But I just don't think that should be put on people BEFORE they sign up.
There's many incremental steps you can take AFTER the sign up process to educate people about how to use the network.
Sometimes I accept registrations on oslo.town from people who say its "the only Norwegian instance" but the first thing I do is message them to tell them about other Norsk instances and how to move to them.
@matt (totally appreciate having this conversation btw, don't want it to seem like I am trying to argue or disagree)
I personally think this education can really only happen before people sign up. Especially for Pixelfed since it is not so much a place for discussions as it is for showcasing photos.
@liaizon I really appreciate the conversation too and hearing your views.
I think on this one we just have different opinions - and that's okay. 🙃
We both agree that educating people is important; I just think when it comes to signing up to and using web services, people aren't wanting to learn something.
I do think people should understand what's happening with their data, for instance, but millions use TikTok, Instagram, etc. daily without a care.
@liaizon And so, I think I consider those services and how easily people can sign up.
That's really the competing experience - the one people find easy and are used to.
So, I don't think its about onboarding the masses, I think its about making the sign-up as frictionless as [chosen bad service] to encourage people to use the more ethical choice instead.
@matt Just out of curiosity I went to TikTok to see what their signup flow looks like and was greeted with this screen which is just unimaginably bad. So I think in this case basically anything we do is a better (:
@dansup@pixelfed The ! icon makes the note look like it’s a warning. Why not lay out the note naturally following the main text, and skip the rectangle and icon altogether?
@dansup What about reversing the two buttons? It would match the order described in the text. First you mention choosing a community, then pixelfed.social as a fallback. The buttons should probably match this order.
@nclm Hows this? The first screenshot will be shown when pixelfed.social is reachable and has registrations open, and the second one will be displayed if that isn't the case!
@dansup I like the revised version in general but on the scond screen you might want to give some positive reasons for looking at other communities. @pixelfed
@dansup@pixelfed Ya. Just signed up. Process was mostly smooth. Joining a community was straightforward and clear. Getting told my username was already in use, and then having to retype my password twice seems like unnecessary friction.
@dansup@pixelfed it's a lot of text so I skipped right over it and read the buttons. With just reading the buttons is not clear that pixelfed.social is a community and the explore button is to look at alternatives. So I might change it to "Explore other communities" to imply that pixelfed.social is a community.
@dansup@pixelfed the people who are put off by a small friction of signing up or understanding the #fediverse are not worth compromising the very essence of this platform for. those are the million accounts who registered after the #twittermigration then abandoned them.
I think #mastodon 's official app is in the wrong, and other software devs shouldn't follow suit.
I would like to see the fediverse grow but not at the cost of decentralization.
Yes, it does for a user who is already familiar with the workflow. There's a fair amount of empty space though that could conceivably be used to explain or reinforce the concept of federating possibly by (re?) using a diagram used in documentation and setting opacity. This then maintains that clean open look by pushing that image back, but serves as a helpful recall to a new user who is learning that "Hey, this is where you pick your server to log in to."
@dansup@pixelfed im gonna say something extremely controversial, but i think its better to join pixelfed.social
why? because pixelfed is moving very fast, these past few months have been prolific with pixelfed updates, and not every instance is able to catch up with the current pixelfed version, or it will catch up slowly and for a long time probably youre gonna stay behind in your instance because your admin didnt update when the new version was released coughcough pixey.org cough cough*
and because the flagship instance is maintained by the actual creator of the whole project you are gonna rest assured you will be always get whats new and never stay behind, at least if you care about this stuff
@dansup Looks good and simple to understand. That said, most people would probably just go with the default black button and join pixelfed.social. If you're okay with that, it should be fine.
Otherwise, maybe consider showcasing servers on the same screen with the Join button? I'm thinking tiles in a scrolling fashion. I'm terrible at UI though, so this may be too much.
@dansup I think the latest version looks good, and it is clear.
I do have a tweak for the final part to clarify account migration a little. If uptake of account migration support is widespread, it would be clearer to omit the “if….” clause in parentheses below.
“You can follow and interact with accounts in other communities. You can also easily change communities, keeping your posts and followers (if your community supports account migration).”
@dansup@pixelfed honestly love the 1st screen with the vibrant text. Helps onboarding very well. 2nd screenshot is suggesting pixelfed.social which is fine, but you don't want to risk a similar situation to what @Gargron had with the @Mastodon app.
@dansup@pixelfed It should just go straight into a list of instances with descriptions about their purposed and the general pixelfed.social displayed prominently at the top with a description like that.
@dansup@pixelfed How aobut instead of "Join pixelfed.social" you display a list of 3 servers or something? Maybe the one of the country of which one is connected from, pixelfed.social and a randomly picked one from pixtagram, fedifilm, privagram and other instances that are more specially focused on something instead of a general-purpose instance?
@dansup@pixelfed I think “explore communities” sounds too much like just browsing the photos. And the “join” button looks like the only join button. This is knowing that most people won’t read the text.
@dansup@pixelfed IMO many new users won’t read all that text and are likely to think “communities” is a feature, rather than alternate servers. I suggest adjusting the title for that button to make it feel more like an alternative: “join a different community” or “explore my options” or something.
@andrewabernathy@dansup@pixelfed agreed. In addition, the key problem I had when joining Pixelfed was working out what was special about each server so it would be great if you can show basic info about each server: do they have a blurb that explains who they are? Do they specify what is allowed or not on their instance?
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