Small, well-built Chinese EV called the Seagull poses a big threat to the US auto industry

A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.

The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S.-made electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000.

Tariffs on imported Chinese vehicles probably will keep the Seagull away from America’s shores for now, and it likely would sell for more than 12 grand if imported.

But the rapid emergence of low-priced EVs from China could shake up the global auto industry in ways not seen since Japanese makers exploded on the scene during the oil crises of the 1970s. BYD, which stands for “Build Your Dreams,” could be a nightmare for the U.S. auto industry.

“Any car company that’s not paying attention to them as a competitor is going to be lost when they hit their market,” said Sam Fiorani, a vice president at AutoForecast Solutions near Philadelphia. “BYD’s entry into the U.S. market isn’t an if. It’s a when.”

MagicShel,

A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.

Hyperbole as rhetorical device is getting exhausting and makes me extremely skeptical.

JCreazy,

I stopped reading there.

steakmeoutt,

Thanks for letting us know.

JCreazy,

You’re welcome

Rolder,

Specially when you see the stats and it has a 190-250 mile range and a max speed of 81 MPH. And even the article points out they cut costs with things like having only one windshield wiper.

KISSmyOSFeddit,

it has a 190-250 mile range and a max speed of 81 MPH

That’s further than I’d drive before a 20 minute rest stop, and faster than it’s legal to drive anywhere in the US, except for Texas State Highway 130.

And even the article points out they cut costs with things like having only one windshield wiper.

As opposed to the Cybertruck, which has a revolutionary, but very expensive, design featuring only one windshield wiper.

ChonkyOwlbear,

It also doesn’t meet US auto safety standards.

Rolder,

Cybertruck is a bad comparison, everyone already knows that thing is a steaming pile of hot garbage.

VirtualOdour, (edited )

Yeah here in the uk there’s plenty of good charging points, woodland trust and national trust are putting them in at a lot of locations so I could plan a relaxing walk in the woods with my journey if I ever needed to go more than 150 miles, I think that would be really nice.

Supermarkets have tave them too, so I could plan getting the shopping I need for the trip while it charges, this would allow me to avoid predatory pricing at garages too.

I just looked on a road distance map and it’s about where I would normally stop for a break, I’ve done longer drives but only rarely and I can’t think of a time an excuse to stop for a walk in the woods wouldn’t have been welcomed.

Oh and I only have one wiper but it was made by Hyundai so I guess it gets a pass lol

MagicShel,

I don’t think comparing it to cybertruck is really a win. I could be in a bubble, but I hear nothing but terrible things about them.

Also, anecdotally, going on long family trips in my van, I frequently do 350 miles between stops on 900 mile trips. I’d say 80 is a typical speed on the Ohio turnpike, but I’d be a little worried about driving that thing pedal to the floor for 2-3 hours straight (no worries though, it’ll never get that range at full speed).

That said, hey if this car meets your needs I’m all for that. Everyone should have options. I would consider buying one for my kids when they start driving as long as it’s safe in accidents.

ShepherdPie,

This whole article is just paid marketing. Some AP journalist didn’t tear this car down and analyze its build quality.

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

No, but UBS did, on its teardown of the BYD Seal.

yamanii,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not hard to beat “US craftsmanship”, did the writer saw anything about the cybertruck?

lagomorphlecture,

I don’t want a Chinese car but at the same time if American automakers are going to continue refusing to make affordable electric cars and only give massive SUVs and trucks as our gas options then it seems like that’s pretty much the choice we’ll be left with.

Edit: if this frightens the Biden administration then they need to find a way to put pressure on American manufacturers to make some decent vehicles.

Wahots,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

I’m really not a fan of China, but I’m inclined to agree. We need smaller, more affordable vehicles. SUVs are antiquated, and trucks are largely decorative for most of the population. We need smaller, lighter vehicles. Though we also should be investing much more into mass transit rather than (largely redundant) highways and roads anyways, as it’s a huge waste of taxpayer money. Keep the key highways, build rail to reduce reliance on shit we shouldn’t really be rebuilding anyways. A lot of highways are going to be hitting the end of their useful lives soon, anyways, and require rebuilds.

art,
@art@lemmy.world avatar

Just want to remind people that BYD has been in the American market since 2011. They’ve been involved with building industrial vehicles like trucks and buses.

RandomGuy79,

I don’t even like buying Chinese shoes because they fall apart before the season ends. Do these shoes spy on us as well ?

mightyfoolish,

Yes but all cars with smart software or trackers such as OnStar spy on you and sell your data. A car that won’t spy on you is that $12000 Toyota pickup that lacks most of these features designed for spy use (which won’t come to the US even though I want one).

Smart shoes are a thing and probably collect data as well.

ansiz,

I’ve seen enough QA issues with most of the Chinese EVs I would highly doubt any of them make it to the USA for consumer sale at any scale. Some have overheating issues, panels fall off, cheap seat belts, uncomfortable seats, sizing issues (too small for larger Americans), goofy AC vents that blow weak when pointed downward and high when pointed at your face but don’t allow for other adjustments.

rowinxavier,

I agree with many of these points, but have two thoughts here. First, the same was true of many items being produced in China in the past, but quality control got better and honestly most of the products you can buy for a reasonable price are partly or wholly made in China. Second, Tesla is a good example of a US based company with many of the same issues. Loose panels, door handles that fall off, accelerators that get stuck, and so on. Bad engineering is not only available in Mandarin.

I hope they can produce a good quality electric car and help accelerate the transition.

Ozone6363,

1000% this.

This article is fuckin ridiculous. There hasn’t been a Chinese auto manufacturer that is even CLOSE.

GoofSchmoofer,
@GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world avatar

I mean at those prices you don’t expect too much quality. Unlike Teslas that are poorly built but priced like the aren’t

art,
@art@lemmy.world avatar

BYD has been making buses and work trucks for the US market for years. I’ve only had a ride on a few BYD buses, but they seem to be quality.

ChewTiger,

Good to hear they’ve had some success in the US, but I do worry about the quality of their consumer products. Too many companies can’t translate success in onr section of a market into another section.

I really want a small EV.

Darkscryber,

A electric car that is not a SUV? I am in!!! Here in Canada the only option for EV are Prius and SUV. No small EV car under 20k. I say bring them on!! Otherwise I will continue to buy juices from arabian country.

m13,

Americans forced the world into the capitalist system, and now they don’t like it when China does capitalism. Why are they so afraid of the free market?

thr0w4w4y2,

Except it’s not capitalism when China does it, it’s socialism. The EV manufacturers like BYD have had massive subsidies from the state to bring those products to market, and that level of state support and intervention is not palatable to Americans.

Political, Climate change and National Security concerns aside, the subsidies are how the US government are about to justify the tariffs.

moitoi,
@moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

We can talk about the massive subsidies the US government did and do to the automakers. The propaganda paid with tax money to have a centered car environment.

Each country subsidies its automaker but doesn’t want the other to do so because “Free market™”. It’s at best hypocrite.

Wogi,

So are massive subsidies only socialism when China does it?

The US has been doing that for decades.

thr0w4w4y2,

yes but then the US doesn’t expect to sell huge quantities of its cars in China and upset the market. Nor would China permit that.

Wogi,

They not only sell huge quantities of cars in China, they export new and used cars to China for sale.

They’re not upsetting the market because they’re already a huge part of it.

Upsetting the market is generally good for consumers. Why exactly would you want to lick the boots of American auto manufacturers when they’re actively price gouging in the absence of any competition?

rapechildren,

www.vidlii.com/watch?v=-HkErc-xfRK

hightrix,

Ahh yes, when a product advertises that it is “well built” that is a massive red flag.

Heavybell,
@Heavybell@lemmy.world avatar

It was an American company doing a teardown of the vehicle that said it was well built.

ouRKaoS,

So now we have Americans reverse-engineering Chinese products?

This timeline is definitely off the rails!

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

UBS on its teardown of the BYD Seal.

Heavybell,
@Heavybell@lemmy.world avatar

Why is it so shocking? Has the US car industry meaningfully evolved in the past several decades, pre-Musk Tesla aside? :P

squirrelwithnut,

“well built” … “Chinese” 🤔

ChonkyOwlbear,

It’s easy to build a cheap car when you ignore the human rights of your workers and the environmental damage of your production process.

Numenor,

Where is your evidence of these claims

ChonkyOwlbear,

I’ve been online long enough to know a sealion is coming when I see one. Not engaging.

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

Riiight. Running from providing actual proof isn’t the own you think it is.

ChonkyOwlbear,

I addressed it in another comment

lemmy.world/comment/10040038

umulu,
@umulu@lemmy.world avatar

Exactly!

Yawweee877h444,

Or our businesses don’t want this type of competition? An affordable and reliable sub 10k EV? This would hurt our businesses and billionaire class, no?

If I needed a new car, and had a 10k EV as an option, it’d be my first choice to look into.

Por que no los dos, though.

ChonkyOwlbear,

Our businesses can’t compete because we don’t want poison in our air/water, cars made with child labor, or factories that regularly maim or kill employees.

Cypher,

… are you from the USA?

ChonkyOwlbear,

Yes. As bad as you think we are, China is worse.

msage,

You manufacture EVERYTHING in China.

WTF

VirtualOdour,

Translation: I’ve brought into the idea that america is the best and therfore without any evidence I’ll assume that every bad thing that happens is worse in China.

It’s weird that people acknowledge china has made huge investments in modernizing industry while america has not but then act like investing trillions in high tech manifacturing has changed nothing and the country is still just guys in pointy straw hats scratching at the dirt.

Go look at the dji factory, it’s a beautifully elegant engineering masterpiece as or more advanced than any western factory. The design is efficient, robust, and retoolable with workers getting good wages and a range of benefits that rival or exceed similar employment in Europe or the US, most working 9-5 in good safe conditions with adequate breaks.

MiC25 the project to invest in and promote Chinese tech manifacturing is reaching maturity and exactly what was intended and expected is happening. The lesson should be that investing in infrastructure and modernization is a great idea but instead people want to dismiss that and say ‘no surely things are always better here in the west where the only investments we make are bailing out the rich every time they fuck up’

Yes china has a lot of problems like any county, just assuming that everything they do is evil and terrible makes no sense.

ChonkyOwlbear,

I don’t think America is the best either, just less bad than China in most cases.

still just guys in pointy straw hats scratching at the dirt.

As of 2023, 40% of the Chinese workforce is engaged in farming, primarily at the small scale. Your racist implications aside, a large portion of the country is still relatively undeveloped.

China executes more than 1000 people every year, sometimes for things which are protected rights in the US like political dissidence (aka free speech). They are the #1 country in numbers of executions. They kill more people than the next 10 countries on the list combined.

China is the world’s largest emitter of greenhouse gases; the largest source of marine debris; the worst perpetrators of illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing; and the world’s largest consumer of trafficked wildlife and timber products.

The Chinese government regularly spies on its own citizens, censors what their citizens know, and manipulates them with propaganda.

China has 5 times the workforce as the US but 16 times the workplace fatality rate. More than 225 Chinese people die from workplace accidents.

China regularly holds more than 1 million people in internment camps. In these camps many are abused, tortured, raped, or used as slave labor. That is on top of the 1.7 million people in the penal system where torture is regularly used as punishment.

But yeah, they have one or two nice looking factories.

BowtiesAreCool,

It’s okay when we do it because our factories at least looks clean and modern despite all that shit happening anyway.

exanime,

Is that why all the manufacturing of every industry (including most of the parts for the cars assembled in USA) was sent from America to China?

ChonkyOwlbear,

?

Bytemeister,

Our businesses can’t compete because we spent the last 30 years outsourcing all of our manufacturing and production to cut cost.

Look at the rivers here and tell me with a straight face that we give a meaningful pity fuck about the environment.

ChonkyOwlbear,

Do you have any idea how bad the rivers used to be? A river outside Cleveland used to catch on fire and a river in Chicago used to bubble due to all the rotting slaughterhouse runoff.

fine_sandy_bottom,

You’d seriously consider buying the cheapest car on the market?

Blackmist,

Problem is, that goes for expensive cars as well.

At some point we need to decide are we in the West are either (a) importing cheap small cars from China, or (b) stopping poor people from driving. Because petrol is on the way out.

ChonkyOwlbear,

That’s why ebikes and scooters are becoming so popular. Small short range mobility vehicles are filling the gap.

Blackmist,

I think that’s the key tbh. Most people aren’t going to need a massive car for going about town. Just something that can carry your shopping and get you to work and back will do.

ChonkyOwlbear,

I just wish I didn’t have to choose between a small car and a car that won’t get stuck in the snow. I don’t know why they think small cars must also have a small ground clearance.

db0,

Lol western nations dint give a fuck about that. They just externalized the environmental costs to China and other poor nations until now and then sold the end result to their customers. The only problem is that that US doesn’t own the company.

Son_of_dad,

Western auto workers weren’t and aren’t anywhere near ethical with their workers. Also Western automakers do have plenty of wiggle room, but they’re not charities.

ChonkyOwlbear,

Agreed on both accounts. Still us manufacturing is nowhere near as bad with workers rights and pollution as China. The smog is often so bad over Beijing that it blocks out the sun.

huffpost.com/…/beijing-air-pollution-photos_n_569…

China has a workplace fatality rate of around 10-15 per 100k workers compared to 5-6 for the US.

arinite.co.uk/the-worlds-most-dangerous-countries…

Kanda,

But hey, the US is only half as bad as what they call the literal devil

Ozone6363,

The car still sucks ass, dude. Literally no one is buying cheap Chinese shit that has a million problems. They’re not even close.

fine_sandy_bottom,

They seem pretty popular here in Australia.

I’d never buy one but I’m glad they’ll bring down the prices of proper cars.

mlg,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Ford when they outsourced to South Africa during their apartheid for cheap exploit labor

All 3 American automakers who already outsourced to Mexico right now to do the exact same thing

Yellen telling China to scale back eco tech production to protect American profits

Ah yes America, the global leader in human rights and environmental protection.

killjuden,

www.vidlii.com/watch?v=A500uuWTk1S

curiousaur,

Leverage your precious free market capitalism and compete, assholes. It’s not a threat, it’s an opportunity.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

So, there’s a guy Silicon Valley Billionaire named Peter Thiel who released a book back in 2014 called “Zero to One”, in which he advocates for the monopoly system and claims any good businessman ultimately seeks to corner the market.

The US car market has been consolidating over the last 40 years, in an effort to cartelize and ultimately monopolize the automotive industry. We’ve passed a host of regulations and taxes that compel foreign manufacturers to build and assemble cars domestically, to partner with US car firms, and to absorb parts of the market American firms don’t want to occupy (US firms have functionally given up making small cars - almost everything is a truck or an SUV now). And we’ve unleashed our investment banks on East Asian industries, guaranteeing financial control of the largest firms in Korea, Japan, The Phillipines, and Taiwan via our international system of credits and debits.

The goal was never free markets, it was captured revenue streams. As we enter a new high surveillance age, vehicles are increasingly part of the always-on Internet Of Things information network used to continuously monitor anyone with enough money to afford a cellular device.

Excising firms like Huawei, ByteDance, and now BYD from the US marketplace is about cementing that captured state of the American economy and tightening the surveillance network. These are absolutely perceived of as threats, because they don’t integrate into our controlled networks. Until Chinese businesses are willing to submit to Five-Eyes surveillance and the Chicago School Economics of the New York banks, they’re not welcome in our country.

homesweethomeMrL,

China: offers affordable EV

US Auto: NOoooooooooooooo!!

mox,

I won’t defend the US auto industry, but there are issues in play here that might not be obvious. For example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance

homesweethomeMrL,

I see your reasonable, logical arguments, and raise another Affordable EV.

Quexotic,

Those are probably both totally relevant points but it’s not going to matter because everyone’s suffering so much from inflation that they’ll go ahead and take the bait and buy it anyway. Even those that are aware of the intentional nature of the dumping and aware of the risks of surveillance won’t be able to responsibly buy a car that cost $60,000 when they can get one for 12k.

mox,

everyone’s suffering so much from inflation that they’ll go ahead

That, along with a bloated auto industry and terribly underdeveloped public transit. Here’s hoping this turn of events will lead to real progress in fixing these problems.

Quexotic,

If so, it’ll be because enough people discover that the problem is the system itself.

AA5B,

Those are just excuses:

  • Dumping: US auto industry is enjoying significant protectionism right now, with the excuse of combatting dumping. They have a grace period to catch up, but instead they’re backing off, retreating into their shells. We’re spending hundreds of billions of dollars to give them a chance to compete fairly and they’re throwing it away. I’ll have sympathy if they at least try.
  • Surveillance: US auto industry and especially EVs are horrible with surveillance right now. You not only have no privacy, they commonly have cameras inside and can control your vehicle remotely. Those Chinese surveillance devices aren’t doing anything different from anyone else: they’re all violating our privacy and we have no protection. It’s not that I’m not afraid of Chinese surveillance devices but that I’m also afraid of US corporate surveillance devices. Let a have some actual privacy protections we can apply equally and fairly to all of them
mox, (edited )

Those are just excuses

They might be used as excuses by a complacent industry, but they are not just excuses. They are also valid reasons for concern, and would still be so even if not used as talking points for Detroit lobbyists.

US auto industry is enjoying significant protectionism right now

Regardless of that, China’s government has spent more than a few years subsidizing products and services in order to make their exports dirt cheap abroad, eventually making other nations dependent on them. (See also: the Belt and Road Initiative.) This fits the same pattern, and would still be a problem even if US auto industry protectionism didn’t exist.

US auto industry and especially EVs are horrible with surveillance right now.

Agreed, but once again, that doesn’t invalidate the problem that I mentioned. A foreign adversary having deep, real-time access to the nation’s infrastructure, traffic patterns, sensitive information revealed through conversations and cameras, etc. is a larger problem than the personal privacy issues that already exist domestically.

Chinese surveillance devices aren’t doing anything different from anyone else: they’re all violating our privacy and we have no protection.

The difference lies in where the collected information goes. That might not matter to some people on a personal level, but on a national scale, handing all that info to an adversary nation is cause for concern.

AA5B,

As opposed to them buying it from data brokers? There’s a difference in responsiveness and I’m sure data brokers make a pretense of anonymizing that will need a bit of adjustment, but I’m not convinced it’s as different as everyone is afraid of

mox,

As opposed to them buying it from data brokers?

That would also be a cause for concern. Both should be addressed.

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