"Because the truth be told, White supremacy is not a mental health issue," Jones said on the House floor. "It is about terrorism, and the shooting that happened in Jacksonville, Florida, was not quote-unquote racially motivated. It was racial terrorism, and until we acknowledge that fact, until we act on that fact, it will continue to happen."
'White supremacy is not a mental health issue': Justin Jones scolds GOP after Jacksonville shooting
@StillIRise1963 same with the bomb threats of libraries, synagogues, abortion clinics, etc - terrorism is the choice of the minority with no ideas except their own supremacy over people of different genders or gender identities, faith, race, national origin, political affiliation.. .
It's both!
White supremacy is a European fascist ideology, the application of which has brought great suffering to mankind (genocide, slavery, racism, holocaust, wars, etc.). It is not an abstraction, because it is predominantly white men who are obsessed with authority and who commit crimes under this ideology.
This only works if hate and contempt for others have been burned into the psyche of the perpetrators, making it an individual mental issue for each fascist involved. Fascist white supremacist groups and individuals are active in many countries, but only in the US is it so easy to obtain arms as a private citizen. Each assassin not only kills African Americans, Jews, students, and children, but at the same time contributes to the advancement of fascism.
The only realistic response to these dire conditions would be radical 2nd Amendment reform and popular disarmament, as has happened in the UK and AUS, for example. The likelihood of this happening in the US is about as great as the likelihood of D. Trump pleading guilty to his crimes.
@StillIRise1963 I had hopes in my early years. Now, pushing 75, isolated by my own unwellness, having only my vote to arm me to assist to lift, I am discouraged. But I will also rise. Maybe tomorrow. xo
@StillIRise1963@Lizette603_23 I am thankful for his courage. I see the ribbons on mailboxes for Covenant victims around town and then signs for politicians who will absolutely do nothing in the same yards.
@StillIRise1963 any kind of racism (supremacy) is born of whatever community you're used to. Then, insert a community you're not used to, throw in some MSM hit pieces on said inserted community and...you have "racism" which people love to call supremacy.
@StillIRise1963 I think we should go back to shooting right wing politicians at baseball games. That used to be popular. Well once. It never became a trend.
@StillIRise1963 bravo! when Trump said mass shootings was a "mental health issue", what he was really saying was "We're not getting rid of guns, we're not prosecuting the shooters as hate crimes, and we're not funding any mental health crises either. It's open season on anybody who is not a white christian GOP male"... Get rid of guns and get rid of fascists and get rid of Trump/GOP
@StillIRise1963 speeches from government officials sound a lot better when they come from the mouths of regular people instead of rich, old, white businessmen. #sortition#uspol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder "Sadistic personality disorder ... defined by pervasive pattern of sadistic & cruel behavior. People w/this disorder were thought to desire to control others. It was believed they (did) this thru ... physical or emotional violence ... diagnosis appeared in ... Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III-R) ... DSM-IV, DSM-IV-TR & DSM-5 do not include it ... removed as psychiatrists believed it would be used to legally excuse (it)"
@StillIRise1963 White or Aryan supremacy ideology is an expression of depraved indifference to & contempt for human life & humanity. As are (mass) shootings.
Guns don't belong into the hands of domestic extremists & terrorists.
Allowing them to purchase & possess guns means facilitating crimes.
No matter how the 2nd Amendment is interpreted.
@StillIRise1963 These arent mutual exclusive... If someone wants to be a terrorist, that is a mental health issue. Anyone who behaves this way has mental health issues.
As a so-called "mentally ill" person, I'm sick of gun violence being framed as a "mental health" issue. The vast majority of mass shooters have never been diagnosed with any psychiatric condition. So-called "mentally ill" people are far, far more likely to be victimized by so-called "mentally well" people than vice versa.
Stop blaming this shit on mentally ill people when it is, in fact, sane racists who are doing this.
Thats some broken logic. Just because virtually all people who are violent have mental health issues does not mean that simply because you have a mental health issue you are violent or more likely to be violent.
You are sick of gun violence, great, being mentally doesnt mean you get to speak for all mentally ill people.
Sure, I certainly agree children should have ample access to mental health.
Thing is it doesnt work that way. Most people with mental illness will never be diagnosed, especially when they arent seeking it out. Even when someone thinks they have a mental illness it can take many sessions and back and forth and several failed diagnosis before you settle on some diagnosis. Now if someone is resisting the process, well there isnt much hope.
Its not about identifying and "flagging" the mentally ill, that is just adding a taboo. What we need to do is offer talk therapy (and access to medication if needed) to address their mental health issues and be healthier better members of society, regardless of if their mental health issues is tagged with a specific name or condition.
No all around.. I mean your right you dont create layers of excuses or stigma, but you also dont "focus on the sociopath" as a mental illness and leave out all the other mental illness that is equally at play.
No the solution is simple, you make mental health accessible, you encourage everyone to see a psychiatrist, talk, and work on yourself. You create these same environments in the home...
You do it without stigmas and without the intent of taking away rights or punishing someone for havin a mental illness.. you focus on good happy, healthy people, everything else will come from that as needed.
And for the record being mentally ill doesnt mean you "dont make the choice".. you can still be responsible for your actions and mentally ill at the same time.
We shouldnt use it as an excuse or a free pass... it should be used as a focus on where our energy should go, in helping to make people mentally healthy so they dont do this sort of stuff, not as an excuse to give them a pass.
@freemo@sidereal@StillIRise1963 It's a comforting myth to believe that people only do this kind of stuff because they're not functioning properly. It's part of the just world fallacy, the same comforting myth that leaves actual mentally ill people fending for themselves on the streets because we believe that only bad and/or lazy people end up homeless. It's difficult to accept that people can and do make the choice to do bad things, because that means those people need to be actively opposed
> It's a comforting myth to believe that people only do this kind of stuff because they're not functioning properly.
If you want to kill people then you already arent "functioning properly"... if your mental health issue is the result of your dad being a piece of shit and pouring racist shit on you, that is still mental health.
I suspect you are confusing genetic disorders you are born with with behavior disorders that result in exposure with an unhealthy environment.
yea no thats just wrong. Anyone who can behave in a racist way in the modern world is mentally ill.. In fact I'd go so far as to say anyone who is cruel and evil to others is mentally ill, no exceptions.
@freemo@StillIRise1963@sidereal People are cruel and evil because they believe they are justified in doing so, full stop. Racism is not a mental illness, because illness implies something physically wrong. Mental illness is something physically wrong with your nervous/hormonal systems, racism is a false belief. It's no more a mental illness than believing in fairies, or that politicians half a country away care about your best interests. Being wrong is not the same as being ill.
@freemo@StillIRise1963@Vincarsi@sidereal so if racists are insane, that would make them not culpable for their conduct. Which means that we can’t legally punish them when they commit criminal acts because of their racism (because it’s a mental illness). The racists would LOVE that excuse. And it would basically create open season on anyone not a white cis-straight, able-bodied Christian male.
@StillIRise1963@freemo@Vincarsi People can do or think shitty things without being mentally ill, and not everything that mentally ill people do or think is shitty. This isn't actually that complicated we just live in a deeply ableist society.
Acting like racism is a symptom of mental illness ignores that mentally ill people didn't choose to be the way they are, and racists did.
I started to jump in this argument then realized, it's not worth it. They're trying to somehow justify racism and violence. And that's what it is by excusing it as mental illness
@freemo@Vincarsi@sidereal@StillIRise1963 you are wrong all around. If everyone who murdered was insane, then why do we have a not guilty by reason of insanity defense? No, people who murder are sane. People who want to kill people based on their religion or race are sane. The Nazis are sane. To say they aren’t is to let them morally off the hook and that is indefensible. Sane people commit murder all the time.
@freemo@sidereal@StillIRise1963
Citation needed. Citation required, in fact. Are you defining terrorism or gun violence as a mental illness? That dog won't hunt.
Making morally wrong choices isn't a mental illness. Full stop.
@freemo@sidereal@StillIRise1963
What diagnosis? "Mentally ill" is such a broad category. What disease is the person who carries out violence suffering from?
No you are just hung up on words... I am talking "mentally unhealthy"... you are talking "Pyschosis" which is an entierly different medical category. While I am not claiming everyone who is violent has psychosis they are mentally ill as wanting to hurt people is, by definition, a mentally unhealthy trait.
then your definition of “mentally ill” is so broad as to be meaningless.
Yes, as with many valid concepts it is very broad and effects a lot of people. Hardly meaningless because it represents people who could be helped by therapy and a conscious attempt to be a mentally healthy individual. So while broadly applicable it is quite meaningful.
And it ignores completely justifiable violence, such as self-defense.
Doesnt ignore it at all. I never said all violent acts, I said violent people. Someone who only commits violence to prevent a greater violence is not a violent person.
@sfrazer434 I beg to differ. If a nazi is actively seeking therapy it is very likely they are going to change their ways. I cant tell you how many times ive seen a horribly racist and violent person change their ways after a serious commitment to therapy.
@freemo here’s the thing. You responded to an article about a man standing up to a bunch of white people excusing another white person’s violent behavior against black people as a fault of their mental health. And you stepped in not to say: that violent individual should have sought therapy for their issue, but to say: the black guy is wrong. Your optics are bad, and if you don’t feel bad about that we’re now in a “physician, heal thyself” situation.
@sfrazer434 Heres the thing, you heard exactly what you wanted to with no connection to reality…
What I did say:
If someone wants to be a terrorist, that is a mental health issue.
Never said anything about right or wrong, black or white… I said there was a health issue at play, essentially what you said I should say, that he should have sought therapy (what is implied by saying they had a mental health issue).
At no point did I “defend” the actions in any way, in fact later I even reiterated quite the opposite with:
We shouldnt use it as an excuse or a free pass… it should be used as a focus on where our energy should go, in helping to make people mentally healthy so they dont do this sort of stuff, not as an excuse to give them a pass.
> “These arent mutual exclusive... “ your failure to communicate is on you, not the people who read your words.
Spoken like someone who hears what they want to hear rather than what is being said.
The failure to communicate is on both of us. It is up to me to communicate clearly and up to you to ask questions if you dont understand something.
In this case since I have direct quotes of whatI said that directly contradict your claim it seems to me the fialure is on you for not taking the time to carefully read what was said
@freemo maybe if this was a conversation. It’s not. No one asked for your input, you gave it and that puts the onus on you to be clear. And to be clear: I’m done trying to educate you. I’ve got more important work to do. Have a good day
You are a pro at moving that goal post... First it was because I said the black person was wrong.. then when i showed you quotes saying just the opposite now its "not a conversation" lolol.. just keep moving those goal posts till your right!
Sadly your right this isnt a conversation, because im the only one actually trying to engage in good faith here.
@freemo@sfrazer434 your good faith is not in evidence. You’ve been arguing in bad faith the whole time with your pro-Nazi “just asking questions” rhetoric.
@freemo@sfrazer434 terrorists and Nazis CANNOT be therapized out of their genocidal ambitions. It is NOT a mental illness; it is a choice. Just like it was a choice for so many people to try to kill me because they believed an autistic child should not be suffered to live. If it wasn’t a choice, then you would have to say that the entire school system, and the police department was mentally ill, and that I did not actually suffer 300+ crimes against my person because of their mental illness. If I ended up dead, why no one would be charged with my murder! (No one would have anyway. I was not recognized as a human being and I had fewer rights than my pet cats. If I had been murdered, no judge in the land would have ruled that a homicide since I wasn’t considered human to begin with.)
@freemo@sfrazer434 yeah, that will NEVER happen. You are either a sealioning apologist for Nazis or you’ve never actually met one. Being a Nazi is not a mental disorder; it’s a choice. And you can’t be a Nazi unless you actively want genocide.
@freemo@intransitivelie@sidereal@StillIRise1963 yeah this is absolutely not true, violence for vengeance and violence over money, for example, happen every day and are undertaken by rational actors under our current extremely violent system called capitalism, chalking every violent act up to mental illness is so beyond baseless as to be frankly bizarre! I'm also dying to know what you think of the police whose entire job is enacting violence on a captive population 👀
This is a self validating premise from a pretty useless and solipsistic position though.
"Dr. Freemo, why did you let that crowd beat my ass within an inch of my life?"
"Because one does not engage in mentally ill acts to stop the mentally ill acting mentally ill" and then you nod assuredly and contented that YOU remained morally and mentally intact through another's suffering.
@freemo@intransitivelie@sidereal@StillIRise1963 You. Are. Wrong. Mentally well people commit violence all the time. Or was all 300+ attemots on my life before the age of 12 committed by people with diagnosable mental illnesses? Every single adult with the exception of my family wanted me dead. Every teacher refused to teach me because for me to be alive was a moral abomination. Cops tried to convince my mother (in front of me) that she should just let people kill me because they weren’t in the business of protecting retards and the world would be far better off without me in it. I was told every day by literally everyone that I had no right to exist. Does that mean that every single person I had the misfortune of interacting with as a child and who attempted to murder me was mentally ill? Sane people are perfectly capable of atrocities. The Nazi party was quite adept at getting perfectly normal sane people to kill on their behalf. 1/
@freemo@intransitivelie@sidereal@StillIRise1963 Also, the Milgrim experiment proves you wrong. It was amazingly easy to get sane people to “torture” and even “kill” their subject just because someone in authority told them to. Btw, if you have to be insane to kill, how do you think the military even functions? 2/
People with mental health issues are more likely to be the victims of violence. I am worried about the implication here, because this would seem to excuse all crimes as being symptoms of mental illness.
There are limitations, I believe the mental health exemption comes into play when the perpetrator is delusional enough that they are not aware of what they are doing.
Nah, They arent just related, they are nearly 100% related.. if you are violent you are almost certainly mentally ill, regardless of diagnosis (in fact I'd say the vast majority of mentally ill people dont have a formal diagnosis and may never get one).
The relationship is one way though. While being violent virtually garuntees mental illness, being mentally ill is not suggested of violence.
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