Publisher states a payment has been made + sent remittance.
I have not received the funds (after six weeks now) and my (UK) bank’s customer services, fraud and international teams have all stated they cannot see any payment and that I do not have a block on my account.
Any advice on what to do? I’ve never been in this situation before, and the amount of money is not insignificant. But also, the publisher appears to be very much in “we’ve paid so nothing we can do” mode now.
Thanks to folks who’ve provided thoughts. A quick follow-up:
Big company. It has funds. Not stonewalling me because of that.
Emailed snr editor/snr ops/accounts payable.
Asked for but haven’t received routing info. Accounts points at remittance doc, which my bank cannot use.
My hope is latest email, specifically asking for routing info (UETR, MT103, etc) will get me what I need. My fear is it won’t. Although, frankly, the publisher should be doing this, not me.
@craiggrannell If this was an American company, email would probably be OK. For a UK company, it’s got to be phone.
The one time this happened to me, the problem was at the sender’s end. Only the sender and their bank could fix it. There’s always the suggestion that waiting longer will magically fix things. It didn’t in my case. Sender had to take the trouble to look closely at what they’d done and recognise they’d sent the money to the wrong place.
@callionica Not sure where the payment came from. I’ve asked for confirmation. It’s a USD payment but remittance came from .co.uk. However, I suspect it’s an international transaction (and those are much more prone to error).
@craiggrannell Have you received payment from this payee before?
If no, then ask them to show you via screenshot the payee set up they've used, Sort, Acc, IBAN, all of the references used, to allow you to get your bank to investigate.
If yes, then ask them to provide the above plus a full statement showing all payments made, to enable your bank to use a successful payment to help find the unsuccessful one.
Both of these should enable you to check their homework whilst (con't)
@FionaCraig Well, yes, you’d hope their people would be able to do that. I literally listed the things I needed in a previous email, but didn’t get them. But perhaps they were buried. So I was very, very clear about what I require in my most recent one.
@FionaCraig I’ve received previous successful payments, yes. And I’ve asked for more details. The accounts payable team repeated to provide my bank with the “payment ID” that my bank pointed out is totally useless, since it has no routing info. :/
@simon I’d like to leave the nuclear option until all others have been exhausted. I don’t really want to destroy a relationship with a publisher I’d very much like to continue working with. But yeah.
@callionica Accounts payable, senior editorial and senior ops so far. But accounts payable is just an email address. No phone number. Although I think if this rattles on much longer, I’ll figure out a way to speak to someone.
@craiggrannell I’d see if you can speak to someone in accounts. If the money’s gone missing they’ll want to track it down and will be best able to. Speaking to anyone else is likely to be too indirect.
@callionica Yeah, that’s what I’ll ultimately have to do, I think. Although their attitude appears to not be that the money’s gone missing, but that they’ve paid and I should now figure this out myself.
@craiggrannell If it’s a regular and otherwise good client, I wouldn’t necessarily upset the apple cart after six weeks. As bad as it is, I find myself waiting far longer for payment from some clients…
I would keep it friendly for now. Ask them to send a copy of the transaction details to help you understand what has happened, in case there’s an error with your bank. (There isn’t an error with your bank, of course, but it may flag something simple like they’ve paid the wrong person.)
@rowan_johnson They sent remittance, but that’s just the usual slip that doesn’t actually have any details other than the value and their own reference. Which my bank quite rightly pointed out isn’t any help in tracking a payment. They need routing info. I’m not sure the publisher understands this. I’ve asked again, very clearly, for this information.
But, yes, either they paid the wrong person, or there was a routing fuck-up. Without the data, though, who can say?
@craiggrannell If they’re cagey about helping you, then chances are they’re just fobbing you off for some reason. Either they’re delaying paying (because they have no money, probably) or they’re going to see if they can kick it so far down the road that you’ll give up.
In which case, you need to get firm and inform them that you will need to start formal recovery proceedings to ensure you receive the money you’re owed.
@rowan_johnson 100% certain they have the money. They are… not a small publisher.
I just find this baffling. I’ve had late payments before. I’ve had publishers who just haven’t paid – the longest took over two years to get my money out of. But I’ve never had one send remittance but the money not rock up in my account.
It’s doubly shite because I love writing for this particular publisher and the folks there are great to work with.
@craiggrannell In my experience, I wouldn’t threaten court. “Recovery proceedings” keeps your options open so that they can’t accuse you of being unfair if you do something else. E.g. assuming it’s writing, you must own the copyright on the work you’ve done. Not sure what options you have, but for me (with video) I can submit a copyright claim with YouTube for example – which has sometimes pushed the right buttons to make an overdue bank transfer happen.
@craiggrannell If it is looking like you need to take action, you’ll need to give them a fair notice. So you might still be tussling this one for a few weeks or even months, because if they genuinely have tried to make a payment then you would appear unreasonable to not at least try to be cooperative in finding a resolution.
Give them a few weeks after you issue your final notice before taking any action.
If there are no other options, your nuclear option is Money Claim Online. (Small claims.)
@craiggrannell I’ve used MCO a few times and I’ve found the process easy. You have to pay a fee to file a claim, but the company you’re claiming from will need to reimburse you if you’re successful.
Of course, it’s a risk as it’s taking them to court, and therefore it is very serious, but if it’s a case of delayed payment then it should be cut and dry in your favour, and the company you’re claiming against should simply settle before it goes to court. (You then tell the court you’ve settled.)
@craiggrannell A few times I’ve used MCO and the company has gone into administration, which is why they didn’t pay me.
When that happens you’ll be added to the list of unsecured creditors so if there is anything to dish out after the liquidation then you might get something for your trouble. But in reality you won’t, because they’ll owe money to their administrators, financiers and HMRC who’ll take priority. But you do get regular updates about their liquidation though, which is… fun?
@rowan_johnson Not much chance of this company going into administration, unless something very, very strange is happening behind the scenes that I’m not aware of. This isn’t one of the world’s biggest companies, but it’s still a sizeable and reputable publisher.
@craiggrannell@rowan_johnson I think a first port of call is just a simple letter “you’re outside business terms. Please settle the invoice/provide proof of payment within 7 days or we will be obliged to apply statutory interest to the invoice”. Google the details, but its several % above BoE rate and I believe you can backdate it. Its protected in law. Funny how people can owe £1000 but freak about paying 8.5%pa more. Tend to pay quick. https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-recovery/charging-interest-commercial-debt
@marcpalmer@rowan_johnson Problem isn’t that they haven’t paid – it’s that they claim they have (and have sent remittance advice) but that the money is not in my account. So they’ll argue they’ve paid.
And I love Mike’s video. It’s great. I’ve… done that kind of thing in the past. Bit of a different situation here though.
@craiggrannell They sent remittance? That’s really odd because I’m pretty sure that’s generated by Sage/Xero/etc when they schedule the payment within the software.
This is a super silly question, but have you checked all of the dates on the remittance advice? Are you definitely past the payment arrival date? (And have you had payments from this client before?)
Doesn’t sound like a fob off job to me, now. If it’s a big company that’s someone’s job on the line if they’ve faked remittance.
@rowan_johnson Payment advice was sent to me on 3 April. I emailed on 12 April, asking for expectation in how long it should take for payment to arrive. It’s now 13 May. No idea what system they’re using, but, yes, it’s got to be something biggish.
I’ve experienced some messing around from one or two big companies, but not to a point of sending bogus remittance. (That would surely be fraud.)
I’d assume for now that something has fallen through the cracks somewhere. I think you’re just going to need to be persistent. Definitely worth being firm with them to get them to take you seriously, though. Regardless of what they think they’ve done, you haven’t received the payment.
@craiggrannell Initially I'd go with the 'my bank must have made an error, but can you help me out?' approach, asking if they can provide a screen grab of the transaction. If they play ball, at least that'll have them confirm things one way or the other at their end.
I guess you don't want to endanger an ongoing relationship, but if that's not a concern, then send the boys round. No, sorry, I mean it may be small claims court time.
Edit: Do you have a non-finance contact there to help out?
@pete My editor’s boss has stuck his nose in so far to help. Escalated to someone very senior in ops. But they then just pinged my stuff to accounts payable, which is literally an email address with no sign off. I fear accounts payable is looking on its system and going: PAID! When it needs to be getting a UETR and MT103 and sending them to me.
And, yes, I don’t want to damage the working relationship, if possible.
@craiggrannell It's no consolation at all but I used to hate dealing with this kind of thing from the other side when there were delays or cockups. It's never 'Finance' who are trying to maintain a relationship with those affected, and likely why they hide behind an email.
I know of people successfully contacting CEOs who can be shocked into taking action on learning their staff are treating people like crap, but again, that's gonna rock the boat. I hope you get it sorted.
@pete My editor is a boat rocker. I suspect once he hears what’s going on, he might be a bit annoyed. Holding that back for now, mind, because he’s stupidly busy and his boss has already been on the case.
@craiggrannell Send them a late payment reminder, late payment demand then a letter notifying them of the intention to take them to small claims court.
Until the money is in your account they’ve not paid you, no matter what they think.
And if indeed it has been lost on your side they should be able to provide you evidence of the payment exiting their accounts to yours.
@digitalpardoe Yeah, that’s the thing that’s pissing me off more than anything. I’ve asked for the UETR and MT103 and just been given the payment ID number from the publisher. I have the feeling accounts payable sees “payment sent” on its system, but hasn’t actually contacted the publisher’s bank.
Occam’s Razor suggests there are only two possibilities here:
Sent to wrong place
Routed incorrectly
Either way, I need the documents to give to my bank to show that.
@digitalpardoe Late payment reminder won’t work. They sent remittance and are heading very close to “We paid so case closed”. Small claims would be a last resort. I don’t want to burn a bridge with this publisher, if that can be avoided.
@craiggrannell I’d be surprised if it’s gone missing on your bank’s side TBH, I bet they’ve keyed it wrong and it’s either gone elsewhere or been returned to them by now.
I’m sure when you keep pressing them a payment will magically drop into your account with a “we’re not sure what happened” when they find the mistake on their side.
@digitalpardoe They are pushing very hard with the “get your bank to open an investigation” angle, despite me having told them my bank cannot investigate without any data.
I think human error is likely too. But regardless, I need proof of payment, rather than notification of payment, which is all I have right now.
@craiggrannell It’s ridiculous that they think your bank can investigate anything without some sort of technical reference, like they’re going to go through the likely hundreds of thousands of payments they get in a day to find a random one 🙄.
@digitalpardoe My guess is there’s a fundamental misunderstanding coming from some rando in accounts payable who’s just checking the payment “went through” and confirming as such. If not and they do have information, that doesn’t put the publisher in a good light, frankly.
@craiggrannell sounds like they sent the money to the wrong person. I used to use the Late Payment of Commercials Debts Act as leverage when I was contracting and needed to twist someone’s arm.
@craiggrannell my play was to keep sending invoices with increasing interest applied, not to get the extra money but to be able to say “well I can let the interest slide if you pay all my outstanding invoices this week”. It was to deal with clients that didn’t pay on time though, not clients that claimed they already have paid
@ellneal Yeah. If they’d not paid, I’d just nudge. Thing is, they’ve always been fine previously. So clearly something’s gone wrong here. But the problem is that the publisher’s accounts payable team isn’t now providing the information I need to fix things. Or to at least send my bank.
Your relationship is almost certainly already f%cked up.
Why?
Because if you do not fix it, chances are good that they will again use the wrong way to pay, and you won't get your money.
So chances are you'll end up fixing this via the legal department.
We had it once the other way around, when our ISP was swallowed by a bigger one, the new accounting Dept was incapable of assigning payments correctly. (Yes we have a complicated address.)
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