Brilliant proposal by German politicians: Let us place air defence systems inside NATO, and have these systems save civilian lives by shooting down missiles over western Ukraine.
This is pretty clever because
Russia cannot bomb these systems as that would be an act of war against the entire NATO alliance.
The systems cannot trigger a war with Russia themselves, as they are not attacking Russia.
This discussion has been going on in Poland for quite a while and is revived each time a Russian cruise missile crosses into Polish air space. There’s a depressing amount of debate around whether Poland should even down these rockets that crossed into its air space, not to mentions those that remain in Ukrainian air space. Everyone has now forgotten it, but in the first months of the full-scale war everyone was calling to “close sky above Ukraine”, and that was pretty much the same idea - for NATO to provide air defense cover for Ukraine.
Unfortunately, it never happened and the argument was that NATO even remotely engaging with Russian missiles is equivalent to engaging in the war with Russia as a combatant, with all the consequences, such as your own military installations being targeted.
Russians are probably laughing at these deliberations as they have been already targeting NATO military installations and killing people on EU/NATO soil since 2010’s, but that’s how it is for now. This attitude is only encouraging Russians and I’m pretty sure they will only increase the number of sabotages, killings and interference in EU.
russia started a war, but if the west ever fought back, certain voices would blame the west. such voices are ignorant fools or outright apologists for russian mass murdering imperialism
i'm reminded of those videos you see online where a bully pummels and abuses a victim, while other people just stand around and watch
then the moment the victim fights back, those quiet witnesses are suddenly shouting "hey! hey! stop!"
@benroyce The Musk cult, a few hundred years ago, would consist of people picking up goat poo and telling everyone the berries are delicious. And misunderstood because people are too stupid to recognized good quality goat berries when they see them.
is it just me or did we used to laugh at that tiny social fringe or strange far off hinterland where people in weird cults put all faith in dear leader
oh we laughed and we laughed
and now they seem to be everywhere, threatening democracy and civilization itself
@thepoliticalcat@benroyce the masses aren't paid at all. They just want to believe the possibility that they could have what he has. That they are all temporarily inconvenienced billionaires. He gives them hope for a world that they want for themselves.
The media can't stop talking about him even when they should.
Now, if we replace 'Musk' with 'Trump', you will begin to see the pattern.
Everyone wants hope. It's what they hope for that is telling.
@randahl Are they going to attack Russian planes over Ukraine? The first one they shoot down, Russia is going to attack their bases. Even if they shoot down missile Russia has an obligation to attack. Total irresponsibility. World War III. I am not going to go to fight, let those 'shiny-headed' politicians go, that's for sure.
@randahl It is the same, it would be a direct and flagrant involvement... Last week Russia threatened the ambassadors of France and the United Kingdom. The bases of Toulon or The Falklands with submarines from the middle of the Atlantic, 3000 km away. Stop playing war games from the comfort of home, come on. See the Fallout series on Amazon about the consequences.
how come accounts like yours are always angry about the west "provoking" russia by protecting civilians but never angry at moscow's mass murdering imperialist aggression?
what kind of world do you think it will be if russia invades and invades and the west goes "oh no, can't defend anyone, russia might get mad"?
it's already mad. it's already escalated. russia did all of the escalation already
@randahl@benroyce@juancho_me Russia has been putting red lines everywhere, and when we crossed them, it didn’t fucking change a thing, because putin is a bully who absolutely can’t afford a war against NATO and does all he can to look scary to avoid it, his bluff needs to be called, what is he going to do if we shoot down missiles? Nothing, absolutely nothing, because if he escalate against NATO states, he’s at war with them, plain and simple, and he’s already struggling with "just" Ukraine.
@Uair sure, europe is not blameless in any way, but we are talking geopolitics here, not morals, putin doesn't care about morals in the slightest, only what he can or cannot achieve, he's been led to believe that what he couldn't achieve by military or economic might, it could by simple bravado, because we flinched that many time against his mostly empty threats, and were naive enough to think that cooperation would make him a friend, which was largely a failure to understand his ethos.
@Uair I think invading russia would be a terrible idea, even if prigojin made it look a lot easier than we thought, the element of surprise played a big role, building and moving an army close enough to russia to invade would not work the same. Russia could hit a lot deeper in its population for mobilisation if the war they told themselves for decades was coming, happened.
I doubt europe would be able to mobilise and train a millions' people army any time soon.
it's always the same first-world privileged mentality: everything everywhere and always depends on what the superior people of the West think and do: any other people who is not Western world can't have any agency of their own, only react.
according to these western bigots or cosplaying tankies/ vatniks, ukrainians do not have their own agenda, their own desires, their own agency
the bigots only see china russia or the west/ usa acting. ukrainians are merely cardboard cut out automatons obeying some grand scheme from the west via the CIA pushing magic buttons
ukrainians are dying, fighting for their own land by their choice
but no. it's "the west did this, the west did that"
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