The high prevalence of #ADHD in Autistics might be just the symptoms of an overstimulated life, misunderstood communications and lots of trauma that led to cPTSD.
Would also explain why ADHD meds very often don't work for Autistics - but certain antidepressants do.
I find that unlikely, especially since we already know, that there is a genetic overlap between autism and ADHD.
It just sounds like the "ADHD isn't real/overdiagnosed"-discussion, except for misunderstood communication.
I think that both in allistic and autistic people ADHD is exacerbated, but not caused by the environment and someones history.
@hauchvonstaub@actuallyautistic I agree. And at the same time more precisely the hypothesis is meant as to imply that the ADHD symptoms at least [genetic overlap exists, right, I forgot] would be non existent if it wasn't for the NT environmental pressure... But this is driving into some corner, will think more about it.
The question is, how you want to define ADHD and according to what symptoms.
If you'd diagnose lactose intolerance like ADHD, a person that had a vegan diet couldn't be lactose intolerant, because they don't have any symptoms.
I find it more helpful to see ADHD as a neurotype, with a higher susceptibility for certain problems, that can often be adressed before they cause a person to suffer and seem obvious enough for a doctor to recognise them as impairing.
@hauchvonstaub@actuallyautistic good comparison with the lactose intolerance, brings me to the somewhat more specific argumentation that in comparison with non autistic ADHDers the autistics show ADHD symptoms VERY early if NOT adhering to a "vegan diet", and that would mean they have even more ADHD than... Grrrrrrrrrrroar. Can't pinpoint it, this stupid unscientific feeling of mine -.-, sorry.
@rebekka_m@hauchvonstaub@actuallyautistic Can you talk about what led you to this hypothesis? I'm AuDHD. I wasnt diagnosed till I was 26 but the medication was definitely a life changer for me. I went from not being able to hold down a job to being successfully self employed. I've also eaten meat my whole life. As for earliness of symptoms, I was a nightmare for teachers the second I started school (which I think is the usual pattern anyway) :p
@RavenLuni@actuallyautistic my "non vegan" reference was just a metaphor, so in my toot it stands for a non autistic-friendly environment, because @hauchvonstaub referenced that somewhere above ... Did not mean to claim anything regarding any diet in relation to autism!
Thanks for the hint that this can be misunderstood, @nellie_m !
I think it just means that ADHD and autism as a neurotype can both lead to similar promlems in some areas and can both have a synergy effect.
You can have lactose intolerance, but still get digestion problems from milk without lactose.
This is the case for me, milk leads to digestion problems for me, but it can become really painful without lactase pills, so it's lactose intolerance, but not only lactose intolerance.
I also think that this is similar to the "can autism be cured"-discussion, where certain adults don't reacht the diagnostic threshold for ASD anymore, so depending on who you ask, they're officially "cured from autism".
Same with people who get diagnosed later in life, who officially only had "autistic traits" or no diagnosis at all until they reach burnout and suddenly have enough symptoms to be diagnosed according to current diagnostic criteria.
@hauchvonstaub@actuallyautistic ok, but what do you think about the antidepressants that actually help autistics with the ADHD, and the fact that usual ADHD meds very often do not have any effect? Maybe we can't argue about the overlap in genes as if the "outer" parts were adjunct...
From what I know, ADHD meds often help autistic people with ADHD, just that they usually need a lower dose and they can have additional negative effects.
The first antidepressant I found, that is used to treat ADHD is Bupropion, which is basically an amphetamin.
Some non-autistic people with ADHD also claim that 5-HTP is enough to deal with their ADHD, so just increasing serotonin.
ADHD is more complex than just a lack of dopamin/noradrenalin.
@hauchvonstaub@rebekka_m@actuallyautistic interesting. I am both, and I take small dose Prozac and pretty low dose concerta. Amazing change in being able to deal with work. Never thought about the meds helping me with my autism as well as ADHD. Course I didn’t self diagnose autism till about 3 years ago. But it does help me deal with peopling to a point. Don’t like to up my meds much cause things just get grey.
@rebekka_m@actuallyautistic
I don't know. I don't think I have cPTSD. My mother doesn't believe I was ADHD as a kid and thinks it's all "the media and electronics". But I have evidence for such behavior as kid in elementary from school reports.
OTOH some behavior might also be explained by autism. Like being chatty or not sticking to school rules and expected behavior.
I am still curious what meds will do, but didn't have a psychatrist for that yet.
@Dr_Obvious@actuallyautistic concerning ADHD I didn't have had any of the symptoms until my late teens or earliest 20ies, but the diagnosing physician nevertheless dx'd me with medium/severe ADHD... I won't conclude from me to many or all - but the med thing as well as an article that I've read that suggests there are environments that even don't enforce the typical autism symptoms brought this hypothesis to my mind...
@rebekka_m@actuallyautistic
I was struggling with ADHD questions for childhood too. I have verbose Waldorfzeugnisse that are a hint in that direction. And later in school I never did Homework etc. couldn't force myself to do boring stuff. But trying to remember how certain things were as child was really complicated. My list of more clear autism traits as child is much more detailed. I explain it to me that I grew up in a ND family, so there was sometimes lack of reference.
@rebekka_m@actuallyautistic
I am also getting familar with the believe that I will probably never disentangle what behavior belongs to which degree to which diagnosis. I probably have to just see myself as neurospicy with my own secret mixture. OTOH I am still interested in getting the other diagnosis for probably some autistic reasons.
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