I saw a video once with an expert on the subject who said that ADHD is misnamed, it should be called Intention Deficit Disorder, because the real main side effect is that all of the things that you intend to do are made difficult to impossible because of a variety of factors that affect your executive function.
That was quite likely Dr. Russell Barkley you saw.
Just the first 56 seconds of this video (by one of the foremost researchers) explains 100% of what the problem with adhd is. Symptomatically, adhd isn't even named for what it does to a person. Instead it's named for how it inconveniences others. Gee, thanks! I bet it was the same person who named the speech impediment "lisp". Jerk. 😅
I like this one. I tried to explain to my doctor (who was writing a letter for my workplace) that it takes me 3x as long to get ready in the morning (causing lateness) because it’s like trying to do a series of tasks while in a tornado.
Something my wife once told me that really stuck with was;
Your job is just how you afford to pay for the things you like to do.
And that really helped me to reframe how I view my working life.
At the time I was a welder, earning reasonable, but not mind-blowing money, doing a job that I never really liked. I hated coming home filthy every night, I hated sweating my arse off during the warm months, freezing it off when it was cold, because you can't carry out my line of work in an air conditioned office. After she told me that, it helped me to look at my work life from a different angle, which bizarrely had the effect of chilling me the fuck out, to the point that, while I didn't love what I was doing, I came to accept that I was good at it. And if I didn't like it, I had the power to find a job doing something else. Hell, I could stack shelves at a supermarket for only a little less than I was earning at the time.
Then I got promoted into the office, because that mindset change apparently made me a more reliable worker.
I've been with this company for five years now, and have managed to wiggle into a space where my job is neither one thing nor another. One day I'll be devising training plans for the guys on the shop floor, the next I'm creating valuable documentation that they need, then I'm helping out the Health & Safety manager with audits. And while I don't love working here, I've finally got to a place where I can see a future where I'm not in my 60s, clambering about under rusty old railway wagons, welding up cracks, fucking my back and knees.
i love this advice, jobs just pay for me to live the life close to how i wanna live. i understand that getting a job i actually like is slim to none in this world, i just ask that its bearable. i agree totally with your advice, i think i could do okay in such a situation if i kept taking my medication and it paid good enough to support myself (which jobs dont seem to do anymore). my main issue then is,, which do i go for? i truly have 0 clue what direction to point in at this point in time. i love art and creation but i refuse to pursue something so unstable. that leaves the options for 'careers that get you by' wiiiide open. i also dont wanna be in school forever. soo much to consider, but im rambling now lol. thanks for your advice, it struck a cord with me 💜
Is there any class in school you’ve done that’s been sustainable for you? If you feel like coding/art is more like a hobby and you don’t want to be stuck doing it forever, maybe there’s something else out there for you that you’d feel content working on a little every day.
If you’re worried about coding as a job from competitiveness though, I think don’t worry too much about it. It’ll work out if you just try your best. Even you doing coding for fun is pretty cool :o
I'm glad you were able to take something from my comment.
If I might suggest; perhaps you're overthinking somewhat? Think about where your skills lie, and think about what that enables you to do, then approach a job that makes the most of you at this moment in time.
That job might only see you through the next six months, but the experience you gain from it will carry you into wherever you go next. And so on, and so on... And that's fine. We tend to strive for a career because we've been trained to see that as the most profitable way of being, an attempt to set in stone the next 40/50 years of our lives in as predictable way as possible. And that worked fine for our parents and grandparents, but isn't necessarily the case now.
So whatever you're doing a year from now might not be what you're doing in five years. But as long as your bills are paid, and you're able to live in this world, then that's ok.
How would you explain green to someone who has no concept of colour? The basic otherness of neurodiversity is simultaneously the defining characteristic, overarching difficulty, and blocker to understanding by neurotypicals. I very much like these ideas on how to make the effect of this affliction relatable to others.
You might also ask them to play this little game (takes 5 mins) about a little adhdinosaur who is really, really trying to do his best. However, as good as this game is, it may be too whimsical for its own good as people might not take it serious. Yes, the idea is to give the player a sense of frustration, but there's not really anything there to make them think deeply about why and how this affects people like us. But at least, the game page links to a "making of" presentation by the author, as well as other games and resources for/by neurodiverse folk.
I'm not diagnosed with any form of neurodivergence (I hesitate to say neurotypical. I just manage any "weirdness" well enough to get by).
I played the dinosaur game for a little while. With the exception of the "notes" suddenly becoming a huge mess, it just feels like "Gaslighting: The Game". I get the frustration, but I agree that it doesn't help me understand ADHD any better.
Gaslighting is actually pretty close in terms of what short term memory issues are like. Except you can never be sure if it's just ADHD brain, or something is actually different.
I have been there. More jobs than years on the planet. Dozens of hobbies and interests picked up and put down. Four changes of majors in college. It was frustrating and exhausting.
And then this miraculous thing happened: all of that knowledge and all of those skills coalesced into what I needed to build my own business. Each thing I picked up along the way I needed to learn and had no better way to learn them.
That six weeks of fascination with photography gave me the skills to do my own product photography. Eight weeks of obsession with graphic design made my website beautiful. The two week rabbit hole I went down on light and lighting became the basis of my whole business. Each area of study for the four attempts over 19 years it took to get my degree gives me a huge advantage over my competitors that only understand one subject. Two tax seasons of tax preparation prepared me for handling my own taxes. Retail work gave me the skills in purchasing and planning. Customer service is the single most useful skill set I have ever acquired.
I really could go on, but I am now boring myself. My personal goal for my life was to set up a way to support myself while accepting and accommodating my neurodivergence. It took me a long time to gather all of the knowledge I needed to achieve that, but damn when it all came together it was awesome.
My point is that nothing you are doing, or have done, is a waste. It all adds up. It is all useful. It will all add up into something worthwhile. Hell, you would do really well selling hobbyist stuff. You have familiarity with so many different kinds of hobbies and interests you could assemble an amazing storefront.
Obviously, there's a lot going on here, so right off the bat:
Give yourself time to change, don't expect everything to be different right away. Every day, what you do adjusts your ship's direction like maybe 1° lol. Maybe 0.0001°.
The goal is to eventually be aiming somewhere that you like, but it's okay if you're having trouble steering today. If you had a shit day yesterday, and you steered 3° the wrong way... It's okay. Today, it's time to steer a tiny bit back. Just a bit of work. Tomorrow hopefully a little more work, we'll find out when we get there.
Good luck, captain!
It's okay to ask for help with this. Therapy is professionally trained help so that's extra good, but asking someone you trust for support can make a big difference.
I'M SERIOUS THOUGH, IT'S YEARS MAYBE DECADES OF GENTLE STEERING. WORKING SLOWLY BUT SURELY. GOOD LUCK CAPTAIN.
So two things helped me, and maybe they'll help you too.
The most ideal thing would be to discover the exact perfect career that you love forever, one that perfectly syncs with your unique brain lol. But... Well, I'm not you, so I can't know what that would be. I'd be very happy for you if you did find your holy grail though!
Buuuut. A single, super-perfect career is a very high bar. It might not even exist right now.
So screw that, don't look for perfection. Don't look for most optimized career path.
Right now, look for the most accessible job that you can tolerate. That's where we're starting, path of least resistance. Something you can do, anything, so you don't go straight up homeless. Don't sink the ship lol.
For me, my tolerable job involves moving most of the day, a bit of actual thinking every now and then, and never starts before noon lmao. For me, jobs that don't hit those marks are intolerable. For me, this is good enough.
My tolerable job doesn't make a heck of a lot of money. But it covers the basics for me, and I try to plan out my savings for exciting expensive new hobbies in detailed, step-by-step shopping-order lists that I eventually forget about anyways lmao.
For now, find your good enough.
I think you are (as I was) panicking about being a sinking ship. You're right, that is not ideal. Out of your available options, pick the one that seems the most tolerable and start there. You get better at recognizing jobs you can tolerate with experience, but job hopping is work so do tryyy to pick the one that you'll stay at the longest. Job hopping monthly is... exhausting.
@shepherd has captured my sentiments on this, existing in a similar boat of hobby fixation and jumping.
I found something tolerable that has enough day to day variation, [usually] weekly mental challenges that involve my problem solving skills (I'm a software project manager), and enough communication-based activities that I'm mostly okay with it nearly 10 years in. Caveat: I have been working remotely since late 2016 and this is probably a huge part of staying with it for me. I stumbled into this career path in 2008 via a temp role for sales admin at a software company that then became a full time role. That I then automated 90% of and earned myself an opportunity to move into support which eventually got me where I am now.
All that said - I am bored. I'd like to do something else. I don't know what that looks like. But I have [very slowly] accepted that it's okay to be bored and that all the new skills and hobbies I like to acquire and dabble in will slowly paint a picture of new, unconsidered possibilities for future opportunities. Heck, I joined up with a volunteer fire department last year and that is scratching so many itches: constantly learning, regular training and meetings, no call is ever the same, I get to leverage skills I've been developing and using for decades, I get some socializing, and I get to help people. I'm exploring this chaos with my regular, boring job and I'm hoping to find that balance.
@brownpaperbag No apology needed. I read your ramble, and your thoughts have worth!
It sounds like you've been guiding your ship for a long time, that's great to hear! I'm really happy for you, that's actually a really big deal lol.
And oh man, I'm thrilled to hear that firefighting is working out for you. I don't need it right now, but it's something I've thought about often and I guess I'm saving it for when I need to shake things up again.
Brownpaperbag is a great example of someone who's picked something tolerable for them, and is now exploring the world.
They initially picked a part-time temp job that seemed okay, and then gently bounced around as they dialled in how much responsibility they can handle vs what they can tolerate. That's just right! That's what I want for you minnieo.
And they're also working out the chaos part, but because they're not on a sinking ship, they get to take their time with the journey. Take their time exploring. Brown has space for their chaos, and that's the goal here.
@shepherd thank you for that extremely thoughtful, supportive, and kind reply!
If you do ever head the firefighting direction, feel free to reach out! I'm still a probie for another 3 months but happy to share anything I'm able to.
So Step One keeps you afloat. You need to not sink, because Step Two could take years or decades. My tolerable job keeps me afloat, and staying afloat means I have the space to work on this step.
I use this mantra: What if chaos was the goal?
This takes some unpacking because it's not what you've been told before. Everyone tells you to stuff all your uncontrollable creative manic learning into a tidy box, and put your stupid box into a neat cubicle beside all the other tidy boxes that aren't supposed to be dripping in this weeks paint-pouring hyperfixation.
Nah.
What if chaos was the goal?
What if you were supposed to be chaos?
What if your brand of chaos is what people want?
Our life's work is figuring out how to harness some of your unstoppable creative output into... literally anything that will help you make money lmao.
Your chaos output? It's not useless, that's the plan, man. CHAOS IS THE GOAL.
I can't help you with this either, you gotta figure it out for yourself. Figure out how to turn your brand of weird brain into something that someone wants.
Yes, you jump around a lot. WHAT IF THAT'S WHOLE THE POINT? Some people do it, and a lot of folks really like that apparently.
MAKE CHAOS THE GOAL.
To be responsible here, you gotta find your tolerable survival baseline. But outside of that, you neeeeed to be figuring out how to convert your chaos energy into something that's going to help you out.
It's not going to be an easy job. You're a ship full of TNT. Everyone else is saying you need to keep a lid on that exploding shit. I'm telling you, keep your boat steady, and let's figure out how to focus your exploding shit into a damn rocketship.
I love every part of this @Shepherd and I love that you asked this @minnieo. I needed this from you both... To know I'm not alone here.
I've been leaning into that chaos more and realizing that hey, so what if I'm painting my basement ceiling at 2am? I'm getting something done, no one's getting hurt, and I'm off tomorrow.
I'm feeling less stress because I'm not trying to force myself into the structure of how I'm "supposed" to be doing things
It's GPL3 and the source code is available on GitLab, so it's open source. That's usually a good sign as far as software safety goes, since it's harder to sneak nasty things in when your code is out in the open than it is with a closed-source app.
Okay, but what about all the unfinished projects I have at work? I feel nonstop stress about nearly finished documents I was supposed to have finished weeks ago. It keeps piling and I wonder if maybe I’m not cut out for it. Maybe I need a manual labor job instead of an engineering role. I can go out on my lunch break and run 3 miles or spend endless hours picking up trash off my street, but when I sit down to work I’ll do anything but.
I sympathise; this also happens to me. It's true we don't always have the luxury of leaving a project when it no longer holds interest -- especially at work. And yes, the harsh but ideal solution is to find a job that supports an ever curious mind ... which is obviously extremely difficult to achieve in practice. You're not the first to express an affinity for monotone tasks (running, picking up litter, washing dishes) -- I think it lets us get into a zen or spaced-out state where we "just do". If only washing dishes were as lucrative as an engineering position!
Any chance you can apply some "agile" methodologies to your engineering role? My point is, if you work on a series of tasks with a narrow scope and an imminent deadline, that might be more overcomeable (yes, that's a word ... now) than having fewer, larger projects that seemingly drag out endlessly. You know, get the drop on your eventually dwindling motivation by being done before that even has time to kick in.
First, maybe Godot would be easier when knowing either C or Java, since, iirc, it can use either.
But on the matter of learning, I learn when I feel like it, and when I feel like learning, I jump head on. While I can't perfect any specific subjects that way, at least in a timely manner, random subjects can some times add up to other subjects I try or previously tried to learn (possibly how I learned to use Linux quickly despite being a big learning curve).
I normally stop if I can't concentrate. And do pretty much the same as Auster to learn stuff. Also I find it easier to learn if I do it without pressure.
Don't put too much pressure on yourself. Learn at your own pace. Being neurodivergent means taking detours.
I’ve got a good memory, but talking with my partner he will often say “I told you this before” and it’s just completely gone over my head cause I’ve been slightly distracted. I’ll be listening but things don’t seem to register and it’s worse when I’m distracted by the fact that I am having to put so much effort into listening. Edit: typo
Talking over people and interrupting them. I try to be aware of it and just listen more and talk less, but it’s REALLY HARD. My train of thought just moves way faster than the conversation.
I managed to touch the neighborhood stray cat this morning. “Smokey” (named by someone else) has been a stray living nearby for at least 5 years now that I know of. She will not let anyone close to her, but I’ve been working on that for the last while now. After countless bags of treats tuna and ham, I’m the only person she trusts enough to get close to and she even comes running when I call her. (Expecting treats of course.) She still takes offense to me trying to pet her, but we’re working on that. (I can’t home her as I have several cats already, but at least I can try and make her semi-comfy as she is getting old.)
I managed to germinate a couple peach seeds, and planted them today. I’ll probably end up killing them by over or under watering, but for now I consider the fact I got this far great success.
Those are huge wins, congratulations! I have spent many hours trying to make friends with random cats too, it's so good to have your patience and bribery finally pay off like that.
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