@freemo@generationX Agree, religion cited in such circumstances is a mode of control, not at all the kind of religion that people doing it for themselfs have.
@admitsWrongIfProven@freemo I would even say that people are selfish into their most inner beeing. No matter what they are doing. Belief and religious obey is only to escape the fear of eternal punishment through some "god".
I think you have some crusade against religion and it is just painting your perspective on everything...r ather than the other way around, trying to learn the situation and concluding it is religion.
@freemo@generationX Not sure i understand the point you wanted to make, generation. I do not see religion as the root cause of violence here, even though i think religion is dangerous. So pointing out the selfishnes of people involved would open a lot of debate and looking at details, which i do not find explained in your post.
So generally, it leaves me a bit wondering if we talk about the same thing, or what exactly is missing here.
@jgg@freemo I strongly disagree. Almost all conflicts in the world are fired with religion. Without stupid religious feelings the fire would stop burning. Maybe people will find different reasons but for now its religion.
History shows religion as a mixed bag. Sometimes, reinforces conflicts, sometimes, deflate them and even unify peoples.
Wars are always about economy: land, resources, workforce, political power...
Politicians have used religion as any of the other tools they have to lead/fool people: nations, revenge, fear, ancient grievances, false fatherhoods...
@jgg@freemo it a nice view that religion was used by the powerful, the bad to control people. The small little innocent religion. But what else would they use without the existance of religion?
Political parties seem to be doing a wonderful job at controlling atheists in almost the same ways (functionally speaking) as religion. At least in the USA, the parties havent quite gotten that bad in other countries (though they too have their own things that are used to take advantage)
You clearly never lived there... Religion has nothing to do with the hatred.
I am guessing you also have a highly biased view towards religion and thus blame a lot of the worlds problems on it.. you are probably trying to justify that beleif rather than understand what is going on there (which would lead you to the clear answer that it has nothing to do with religion).
Anyone who spent time there wouldnt even think it was a religious thing.. cultural maybe, but not religious.
@freemo from outside its about ministers walking to religious places and dissing others while smiling into tv cameras. Complete population with one belief hacks on the other popularion with different belief. One population takes the space of the other and thats a problem because they have different beliefs. If they were the same nothing would happen. What other reasons do you see?
@generationX It has little to nothing to do with religion.. Many on both sides are non-religious and they have just as much hate for the other side. You will not find that the hate is in any way concentrated among the religious over there.
The reasons are quite obvious.. because the other side killed their friend and family, nothing more, nothing less... so now they want them dead in return.
Even the start of it had nothing to do with religion, it had to do with a country being occupied by another, and that occupation was not one related to religion (it was about relocating them post nazis since so many were displaced).
@freemo that "the other side killed their friend" is a good point. And the relocation after Nazi defeat as well. But the root cause of hatred is religion. Sorry but Im really biased in that direction.
If you think the root cause of all hatred is religion then yea, I dont think your going to be able to approach this discussing in a objective way obviously.
I mean it doesnt add up, if that were true we wouldnt have so many hateful atheists, in fact atheists wouldnt demonstrate hate at all. But they do.
@freemo you are mixing necessity and sufficiency in your conclusion about atheists. And by the way I don't know many hateful of them. I never heard of atheists occupying a country and killing non atheists living there.
@freemo my statement was that religion is found almost necessarily in most conflicts. And your conclusion is that there is only hate with religion.
Thats silly we know the religion is not the only reason for hate. I also reject your try to absolutise or exaggerate my words just for the sake of your objective view.
You are the one who made the argument, I was using it as an axiom.. you asserted:
But the root cause of hatred is religion
I was disproving that it was the root cause of hatred by showing examples of hatred where religion is not involved as a cause, and therefore is not the root cause of all hatred.
Seems you were trying to say something other than what you said.
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