@ppatel@freakyfwoof I had figured this was going to happen eventually. There had to be a reason for the fact that, in recent months, accidentally switching to standard view traps you in standard view without visiting a specific gmail url, even if you set basic html back to default. It's goodbye to chronological email timeline unless you have a client. It's a safe bet that now there won't be a single one of us not using a client.
@ppatel Does using an email client like @thunderbird help? Not that anyone should have to. This is a terrible decision by google. But solutions for folk are needed.
@fluffgar@thunderbird It does help. The problem is that it's not always a choice when someone is using shared computers like the ones available at libraries.
@ppatel I've used the basic HTML version on one account because it's efficient.
That account is mostly for email lists that I've been since way before Gmail was even a thing. I can run through my various filters & right click subjects and open threads into separate tabs and quickly run through everything in just a matter of minutes. Can't do that in the standard version last I checked.
@ppatel I think we should advocate for improvements to the standard view, rather than insisting on continuing to use a separate front-end that presumably gets much less attention from the developers. I mean, we generally consider separate accessible or text-only websites a bad idea.
@ppatel There's always choices, even if your company straight up makes you have a Google email address (which is itself something to bring up to a labour rights board). There are portable versions of applications, and so forth. Google doesn't care about any of us, and that isn't going to change. We've become complacent, but there is always a choice, it just depends on how much effort we are willing to put in.
@ppatel I know, that's the sad thing. they will have to either learn or get left behind. I decided to learn so I would not be left behind, I did this kicking and screaming but now I quite like it. btw this basic mode was supposed to go away sometime 2 years ago, it never did so we'll see.
@ke7zum Some people will never be skilled enough or have the ability to gain the skills to be effective browsers for the standard interface. As much as I like and use that interface, it's not consistent. There's too much to remember.
@ppatel Not really, j and k for movement, x for select, * a for select all, etc. I don't remember all the shortcuts, just the ones I need. same witht heother web platforms. I get yah though.
@ppatel@ke7zum and it's so much faster to do certain things like search with the html view and it applies all my browser presentation settings unlike the standard view
@ppatel Wow, that many use the web view instead of an email client? I had no idea. I can't imagine doing that, would drive me up a wall. We use google workspace at work too and if I had to use a website to check my work mail, ugh.
@Faylen Not having a powerful enough device to have something like Thunderbird or outlook work efficiently, being forced to use a library computer or another shared device. You can't always manage GMail's labels properly with clients.
@ppatel@Faylen I've noticed that the standard interface has become more and more usable but people still stick to the basic HTML interface because that's what they know. So there are probably a tiny number of people actually using the standard one. I wouldn't be surprised if Google has done actual studies of the standard one to determine whether it's good enough for screen reader users--which it is, last time I checked--and is deciding to discontinue the basic interface in the hopes that more people will try out the standard one and provide feedback. nothing notable has been done to basic HTMl for over a decade, it lacks many actual useful features of standard, and I am honestly shocked it stuck around this long. I don't know how the standard one is doing now, but if it's not up to snuff, we have almost half a year to write comprehensive feedback to Google about it. I do know there are people working there who actually give a damn.
@simon@Faylen I'm not arguing or saying that the standard interface isn't accessible. I find it a pretty good one and I've been using it for many many years. It has a certain cognetive load over the HTML interface. Some people will not be ready or able to use the standard interface.
@simon For what it's worth, many of my problems with the standard view could not be distilled down into run-of-the-mill accessibility bugs, or WCAG violations. They are mostly usability related, but have a serious impact on my ability to effectively manage email nonetheless.
For instance, the selection model is ludicrous. You have to explicitly select an email to take certain actions on it, like delete; moving focus to it is not enough even though that works for certain other actions like opening a message for reading. Meanwhile, if you forget to de-select a message you ended up not taking an action on, you will take the action on it by accident later, and then spend half an hour trying to work out exactly which changes you want to undo and how.
This is not the sort of feedback Google is interested in. I don't use any of their web-based UIs, so it's also not something I care about, beyond having to constantly tell clients that Gmail's selection model is probably not something they should be emulating.
For all I know, this is also an issue in the Basic HTML view. But people are pretty religious about how they manage thousands of work emails, and Google isn't going to change it for them.
@Faylen@ppatel no, me either. I like my email clients. a bit sad about the current state of thunderbird my preferred one but still usable. Outlook works but doesn't handle multiple accounts as gracefully.
@Faylen@bmoore123 I'm using Betterbird, a TB alternative, which has the older TB 102 based code base still under active development. They're experimenting with TB's new 115 design. They tend to fix a lot of bugs from the original.
@ppatel@Faylen yes, I am using that too. It has a few issues too that I have discovered but it is better than 115 or the later betas which I am still trying on another machine.
@ppatel Thanks for mentioning this. I haven't upgraded to TB 115 yet because I fear it will break so many things I rely on. Will check out Betterbird now. 🌼
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