Can you separate the artist as a person from the music?
For example, I personally can’t listen to Guns and Roses without immediately thinking “that Axl sure is an asshole”, and that sours the entire experience.
I think it depends on the person, what they’ve done, if they’ve been convicted and individual tolerance.
Many people shrug when they learn that John Lennon was an abusive asshole who used to beat his wife. Many more wilfully let Chris Brown back into the industry after how badly he beat the shit out of Rihanna. Even artists like Michael Jackson and R Kelly managed to avoid child molestation accusations for years, and likewise more people rushed to cancel 6ix9ine for snitching on the Nine Trey Gangsters than they did when he was convicted of doing inappropriate sexual things to a 13 year old girl and somehow only landing probation.
Then you have truly bad cases like Ian Watkins, former leader singer of LostProphets. The band had effectively been disavowed from the moment of his arrest.
Eric Clapton is an anti-VAX conspiracy theorist and a racist. Van Morrison is anti-VAX conspiracy theorist and a racist. John Lennon is a serial abuser drug addict, beat women and abandoned his own son. Steven Tyler from Aerosmith is a pedophile. Anthony Kiedis from the Red Hot chili peppers is a pedophile.
Etc.
Anytime I learned something horrible about someone famous, I write them off completely.
It was to me too, had to go looking - guessing this from Wikipedia is what it was:
Kiedis acknowledges in his autobiography Scar Tissue that he had sexual relations with a 14-year-old girl when he was 23, before and after learning of her age, in the 1980s. This inspired him to write the song “Catholic School Girls Rule”.
Not defending anyone here, but a paedophile is someone who’s sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I believe these days it’s extended to the early stages of puberty as well.
Most girls are well over that phase at age 14.
A 23 year-old having sex with a 14 year old may be morally and legally wrong depending on culture and jurisdiction, but the cases where it’s actual paedophilia are likely a small minority.
Again, I’m not defending anyone, but calling every person who’s attracted to minors a paedophile only serves to diminish the effect of the actual ones.
Don’t forget Ted Nugent helped funnel Russian money through the NRA for Trump and is a pedophile, Meatloaf is anti-vax, and Roger Waters openly supports Putin’s actions in Ukraine.
Seems to me Waters has walked back that remark about Ukraine. His schtick is generally that he says provocative stuff that opposes western power structures, which sometimes causes him to overcompensate and say something in favour of, say, Putin.
I was at his concert last year and he was hardcore antifa, anti-supreme court, anti-establishment, anti-billionaires, anti-zionist, anti-nazi, pro-choice, and so on. Pictures of every U.S. president with the words “war criminal” captioning them. He seems like a class act to me.
In fairness to Eric Clapton, he did have an extremely rare life-threatening reaction to the vaccine. He may be off the deep end now, but I think at the time of recording Layla etc. he was a fine guy as far as I know.
In 1976, on stage, Clapton praised Tory MP Enoch Powell, and declared that Britain must stop itself from becoming a “black colony,” and said “England is for white people, man.”
He went on to say:
“I don’t want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch’s our man. I think Enoch’s right, I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking wogs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans and fucking… don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don’t want fucking wogs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country. What is happening to us, for fuck’s sake?”
Generally I don’t have a hard time separating the art from the artist. And it’s probably bad and selfish, but if I had to stop listening to David Bowie, Eric Clapton, and John Lennon, I’d be so depressed. The world is deeply shitty, so I’m hanging on to whatever happiness I can find. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I had to look this up, didn’t know about Bowie. He had underage groupies, at least as young as 15 (Lori Mattix). Apparently she remembers that time fondly, but today we would rightly call it coercion and pedophilia. She was treated kindly, probably given all the drugs she “wanted”, but that’s still a child.
There’s a counter argument about how later in life, he refused a kissing scene between him and Jennifer Connelly during Labyrinthe, and that shows he understands the age gap is wrong.
I don’t regularly listen to David Bowie. I can sometimes separate the art from artist, but I’m now gonna have trouble knowing he was having sex with (raping) a 15 year old girl.
Just today I wanted to show a friend UnDeadwood, a western horror one shot by the critical role crew, and learned they’ve removed ALL content with Brian W. Foster because he turned out to be an abusive piece of shit. I understand it on a certain level, but at the same time that’s an INSANE amount of actually amazing content just gone because one dude turned out to be a piece of shit.
So many musicians and other artists are not only complete assholes, but also complete morons. But, I don’t listen to their music for their antics or their intelligence, I listen for the music.
I still listen to Johnny Craig and the Lost Prophets even though I know how horrible they are in real life. Because to me, the music is about the feeling that it elicits in me, not about the creator. I don’t care who made a thing, I care about the thing.
Edit: that said, I’ve not purchased music by those two, and instead pirated it.
To an extent I can, like Axl is a complicated one given his mental health issues. Nothing excuses his behaviour but he seems to have grown as a person and managed to somewhat control his shittier side.
But there’s definitely a line. I can’t really enjoy rammstein or die antwoord anymore
Die antwoord also adopted, abused and abandoned an albino (Edit: my mistake, he has hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia) child, Tokkie, who spoke out a few years ago. They're truly awful and Tokkie's documentary is worth watching.
Also Marilyn Manson has been evicted from my music library for sexual abuse. I have no interest in supporting known exploiters, and I can't listen to their music without thinking about how awful they are as people. No regrets, there's plenty more musicians out there worth my time.
This is the first band that came to mind when I saw this thread. Even though I liked their music when it came out, I would feel gross listening to it now.
Same. I listen to a few bands that have had a member accused of sexual assault and of emotional abuse.
But Lostprophets are beyond tainted because Watkins is one of the most deranged convicted paedos in British legal history. It’s impossible for me to separate his music from his utterly sick crimes. Gary Glitter is up there too.
Unless you’re around your more sanctimonious friends, then you can but you’ll never hear the end of it, and they won’t apologize when, after deriding you for hours, it turns out Bob Dylan wasn’t even in the same country at the time he was accused of committing those improprieties.
Yes. You listen to music without knowing anything about who wrote it and you feel something. That feeling has nothing to do with the composer or performer. Now if you find out the composer/performer is a “bad” person, I would recommend not giving them any money that could contribute to them spreading their “bad stuff”. I’d still enjoy the music because your enjoyment isn’t furthering their bad agenda.
That’s fair, but could still be undermined depending on the content of the music itself - eg if the music was all about respect for women, and then it turned out the person singing was an exploitative abuser, then wouldn’t your feeling about the music still be coloured by that, because it’d now seem insincere?
If I like the song then I don’t care who the artist is but if I really don’t like the artist and feel so strongly about it that I want to make a statement then I simply don’t listen to them.
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