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bstix, in How do you guys remember the early days of the internet? What do you miss about it?

I miss written tutorials. I hate how every tutorial is a YouTube now. I don’t want to watch 15 minutes and forget to pay attention for the second that has the detail that I am missing or it just doesn’t show. Even short tutorials are 3 minutes when it could have been a ten second read. I want to skim a page and go directly to the point. Has writing really become that hard to do?

opentype,

@bstix @Provider From a creator’s perspective that sounds rather ungrateful. Why not be happy that people take the time to create free tutorials at all – in the way they see fit? We look for tutorials because they shorten the time we would otherwise need to figure things out. So it’s weird to say “you helped me save 2 hours of trial-and-error, but it took 3 minutes instead of 1, so damn you!”.

bstix,

I get what you’re saying; but it often feels like a “bears favour”. The content creator wants to help and promises to help, but end up just wasting my time and not helping at all. It’s a lot easier to glance a document or webpage to see if it contains the thing you’re interested in, whereas in a video you’ll have to sit through it all before you can tell if it even contains the information.

WhatTheChel,
@WhatTheChel@mas.to avatar

@bstix @Provider This! I'm not sure who is more at fault. Is it that writers don't want to write or that readers don't want to read (causing writers to shift from writing)? Either way it is torture. I'm a fast reader. Videos go at their own agonizing pace. Who thought this was a good idea???

mjgardner,
@mjgardner@social.sdf.org avatar

@WhatTheChel @bstix It’s not about whether people want to read or write, it’s what can be monetized by providing enough runtime to allow the platform to insert more

WhatTheChel,
@WhatTheChel@mas.to avatar

@mjgardner @bstix Oh, there's definitely that! And I rarely watch videos (even when downloaded and sent to me), because I just don't have the patience to sit through what I could read in mere seconds...

Wintermute_BBS,

@mjgardner @WhatTheChel @bstix which tells us there's something very wrong with the internet.

ApisNecros,
@ApisNecros@ioc.exchange avatar

@mjgardner @bstix
It's exactly this. Just look at recipes. They have to be 5+ paragraph essays about the author's family history, or else they won't get picked up by search engines (read: Google). And if you don't get on the top 5 results, you may as well not exist. Even if written tutorials were more common, they'd also be pressured to be word salads that make it tedious to get the info you actually want.

loshmi,
@loshmi@social.coop avatar

@bstix not hard, just hard to monetize

KathyReid,
@KathyReid@aus.social avatar

@bstix @Provider it's harder to stuff ads in written docs 🤮

dusnm,
@dusnm@fosstodon.org avatar

@bstix @Provider Half of it is SEO garbage and no substance. The other half is written by people who're apparently completely incompetent.

WhyNotZoidberg,
@WhyNotZoidberg@topspicy.social avatar

@bstix @Provider

Agree 100%.

ONLY time video is better is when it's a navigation guide. Like for a game.

Much easier to find that hidden bonus item if you follow a video than to try to follow a description.

ProtonBadger,

Yeah, you could skim pages, or read thoroughly, search in the text, easily jump back to the previous paragraph to skim a bit again, google (or DDG) for terms you remember from an article to find it again, etc.

Not just tutorials, I enjoyed reading tech or product reviews, like the original Anandtech when Anand was there, that all seems to be going the way of obnoxious youtubers.

publicvoit,
@publicvoit@graz.social avatar
sadmac356,
@sadmac356@restless.systems avatar

@bstix this, but also sometimes I do need the video tutorial for certain things

oclsc,
@oclsc@mstdn.ca avatar

@bstix @Provider Strongly endorsed. For me, watching a video is possibly the least-effective way to learn how to do something. Learn to write or find someone to write for you if you want me to use your stuff.

ByMatthewPorter,
@ByMatthewPorter@mastodon.social avatar

@bstix

I know what you mean. “-site:youtube.com” has become part of a lot of my Google searches.

Tooden,
@Tooden@aus.social avatar

@bstix Is it due to a higher preponderance of visual learners? There should be both. Text, and video.🤔@Provider

skquinn,

@bstix @Provider video is better for certain things, but does not replace a written tutorial at all. If anything, they complement each other.

SebinNyshkim,
@SebinNyshkim@meow.social avatar

@bstix I don’t think it’s because writing things is hard but people have become increasingly passive. Why sit down and read for an hour when you can just have someone explain it to you in only 15 minutes

bstix,

Personally I prefer to go at my own pace when I have to learn something. Videos just aren’t good for that.

mwfc,
@mwfc@chaos.social avatar

@bstix

Worst I remember was a printer Manual that explains the error codes. As Slides, in a video. So you cannot even really google it.

@Provider

Neverfadingwood,
@Neverfadingwood@lingo.lol avatar

@bstix @Provider I miss the writing, too.

tomcrinstam,

@bstix @Provider I wish the videos would all simply have the written directions in the description so regardless of how a person absorbs best it's there.

dairpo,
@dairpo@ottawa.place avatar

@bstix A friend once said "videos are for marketing; text is for instruction" and it made it all make sense.

SamYourEyes,
@SamYourEyes@mas.to avatar

@bstix @Provider
Totally agree, it's awful. I recently noticed that the YouTube android app seems to have built in auto-transcription that is often (but not always) searchable. I haven't been able to find this on the desktop webpage, only on the mobile app.

eldadoinquieto,
@eldadoinquieto@mastorol.es avatar

@bstix @Provider

It seems so, and this is not good because many times written tutorials (including technical ones) are better.

maddad,
@maddad@mastodon.world avatar

@bstix @Provider

I find that very annoying too... The search engines are not like they used to be. They are all turning into clickbait sites.

bernieecclestoned,

Wikihow is pretty good. Most offer a written and illustrated article as well as a video

n3wjack,
@n3wjack@mastodon.social avatar

@bernieecclestoned @bstix they are letting AI do the writing now, so bye bye to that too

joat,
@joat@mastodon.scot avatar

@bernieecclestoned @bstix let's go meta with a link to a Wikihow article on how to download YouTube video subtitles: https://www.wikihow.com/Download-YouTube-Video-Subtitles

amoroso,
@amoroso@fosstodon.org avatar

@joat @bernieecclestoned @bstix Video subtitles are a terrible substitute for written text.

ontheotherside,

@x0 I love Whisper for this. Turns these videos into nice transcripts that I can search through.

chemoelectric,
@chemoelectric@masto.ai avatar

@bstix @Provider I almost never will give a video presentation even a smidgen of attention. I AM NOT INTERESTED! Give me something to read, and please make it succinct.

weipah,
@weipah@chaos.social avatar

@bstix 💯 embedded videos forced to fit into 256x256 pixels where you can't read shit.

SnowBunting,

Same. I missed those days where you can just control F to the part of the page and get the info you wanted. Now it’s wait for 2 ads to play, scroll through the intro and then a bunch of scrubbing to find it.

cohomologyisFUN,
@cohomologyisFUN@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@bstix @Provider it would be great to have the best of both worlds: written instructions supplemented by short videos of the most complicated steps. By short, I mean a minute at most— probably no longer than 30 seconds in most cases, only illustrating a single step.

tantramar,
@tantramar@nojack.easydns.ca avatar

@bstix been using a new piece of software, and its documentation is entirely video-based. That said, they’re much better than average — no like-&-subscribe nonsense — and they’re generally short (2–3 min).

BUT I COULD GET THE SAME ANSWER IN 10 SECONDS’ READING.

I get the engagement/metrics argument; maybe they could post the video transcripts, too? This would be a win for everyone — the hurried/impatient and those with accessibility needs.

nyrath,
@nyrath@spacey.space avatar

@bstix @Provider

I hate YouTube tutorials. Because I can read a lot faster than the tutorials can speak.
I am also perplexed by the rise of audio books. It is not a good idea for a driver of an automobile to listen to an audio book. Otherwise I do not see the point

Deus,
@Deus@charcha.cc avatar

The ‘30 seconds of acting like jester’ in the intro and outro annoy me the most. Have a Dislike, I’ll move on.

MashedPotato,

@bstix @Provider 👏👏👏👏

I have resorted to going to the YouTube video page and reading the garbled bot translation underneath because it's still better than sitting through a video with a bunch of filler.

noctiswhole,

Has writing really become that hard to do?

It's probably more to do with discoverability and monetization. I'm generalizing a ton, but I feel like there isn't even a ton of super useful YouTube tutorials outside of beginner content because that gets the most views.

frankboon,

@noctiswhole
Yes, plus especially craters have discovered that tutorial on YT are more discoverable than their sites in the still so called search engine - as those sites are commonly found only after a more specific query, and mostly only after going through a dozen of pages of sponsored and irrelevant search results. Google's enshittification of the search engine in all of its glory!
@Provider @bstix

Slowy,
@Slowy@lemmy.world avatar

Tons of interesting niche stuff exists, it’s good for minor car repairs for example, but I avoid it as much as possible anyway

patterfloof,
@patterfloof@meow.social avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • radicalresilience,
    @radicalresilience@todon.nl avatar

    @patterfloof @bstix @Provider Although there are a lot of AI-written tutorials nowadays that seem to take up the first search page. I have already abandoned several tutorials because usually there just isnt the insight I need because they missed out the actual important parts of how to do the task.

    So yes between the many video tutorials, and the AI tutorials, it has become very hard to find a quality tutorial from a person who actually knows what they are talking about.

    finthechat,
    finthechat avatar

    Has writing really become that hard to do?

    The cynic in me says yes.

    zeolith,

    @bstix @Provider

    Oh gosh, this! I am way better at picking up what is relevant to me in a text article while scanning a text than waiting for thing to happen in a video. It's so infuriating sometimes. Also, video streaming is using so much data that I would rather not do it when I am using mobile internet... So yeah, bring back text based tutorials...

    mlevison,
    @mlevison@agilealliance.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider writing is hard, recording a stream of random stuff is easy.

    drahardja,
    @drahardja@sfba.social avatar

    @bstix Oh my god yes. I spent $60 every few months on one of those thick-ass “How to Adobe Photoshop” books with an included CD, and worked through the tutorials chapter by chapter, and that’s how I learned every computer skill until the early 2000s. Textual tutorials that are well-written and well-edited are POTENT because they deliver skills into your head as quickly as you can absorb it.

    Bonus: paper books have the advantage of sitting NEXT to your computer and not taking up a third of your screen real estate, which was super important 30 years ago when screens were tiny.

    finnhaddie,

    @bstix @Provider God yes. I recently bought a bottle of rum that has a ridiculous ball valve built into the neck so my first attempt to pour it yielded nothing. Googled it & a YT video came up—something ridiculous like 7 minutes or longer—that could have been handled by a single sentence on the label. (Or better yet, not using a ball valve)

    Threadbane,
    @Threadbane@newsie.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider
    Heard on NPR this morning, that UNESCO has declared "computer learning" ineffectual. It goes with a study I read some years back that showed that retention is poor when reading from a computer screen instead of textbooks containing the same information. Physiologically speaking (brain function), a textbook provides tactile and spatial memory "hooks" that the sameness of a computer screen does not, that enable superior recall at a physical level. "Muscle memory" if you will.

    tony,
    @tony@hoyle.me.uk avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Threadbane,
    @Threadbane@newsie.social avatar

    @tony @bstix @Provider
    Then you have nothing to compare it with, do you?
    Take it up with UNESCO and the French scientists who did the study.

    tony,
    @tony@hoyle.me.uk avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Threadbane,
    @Threadbane@newsie.social avatar

    @tony @bstix @Provider
    Special pleading, generalizing from the specific (your own experience). A book is a far more useful learning tool than a computer, because you can flip back and forth, underline important items for later reference, and physically handling a book sets memory recall markers. I have known about this for decades and it's good to see the science finally being recognized. Playing cards, say duplicate bridge, on a computer is a shallow experience relative to the real thing.

    tony,
    @tony@hoyle.me.uk avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Threadbane,
    @Threadbane@newsie.social avatar

    @tony @bstix @Provider
    Computers are far more efficient than libraries of books, obviously, but that is not the point. The content of a HS math text does not need updating, nor a history book, a book of literature. One doesn't "search" a textbook, one learns the material. You have changed the context to suit your vision of what I was talking about. We're not talking about research, we're talking about K-12 schoolbooks. You don't need to update how to add and subtract or Shakespeare's poems.

    tony,
    @tony@hoyle.me.uk avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Threadbane,
    @Threadbane@newsie.social avatar

    @tony @bstix @Provider
    A school situation is EXACTLY what we're talking about, elementary and grade school especially. Children using remote learning during covid fared miserably. And you CAN search textbooks by underlining, bookmarking with tabs, etc. For some subjects, say history, using different colored markers to emphasize certain paragraphs heading, names, dates, etc. made it possible for me to memorize the essential facts in a history book in a day or two before an exam.

    Threadbane,
    @Threadbane@newsie.social avatar

    @tony @bstix @Provider
    Why update elementary math texts, to give "educators" something to do and keep the publishing industry afloat? In 1976, a friend asked me to teach her 15 yo daughter about lowest common denominators and prime numbers. The textbook, unlike the one I used in high school, was gobbledygook. No wonder she couldn't understand it! I couldn't figure out what they were saying and I have a masters in radio engineering! Within an hour she understood it and made an A on her test.

    progressivecat,

    @bstix @TechEnthusiast 100% This is especially annoying when I’m trying to find out how to do something in Python or whatever programming language I happen to be playing with. I am blind and use a screen reader. If the text is written, I can review word by word, line by line, character by character, ETC. This is important when trying to learn programming.

    Anders429,

    Drives me crazy when I see this kind of format for things like programming. Nothing like pausing the video and trying to see what their code says.

    Thaurin,

    Reading documentation is still king here.

    svenja,
    @svenja@fedisabled.social avatar

    @Anders429 @bstix for me its even not accessible then, because I can't see the Code in the Video on Screen, ocr is also not reliable there.

    janananena,

    @Anders429 @bstix lol actually i watch videos for programming sometimes - what is really bad is getting a good look at that one knitting stitch that has a six letter abbreviation and only the worst text explanations WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH TAKING A PICTURE OF THIS

    Nepenthe,
    Nepenthe avatar

    I was all set to start bitching about the obligatory 10-15 minutes of "older, medicated suburban housewife shows off her whole yarn closet, every needle, which needle she likes (it's not better, it's just pretty), her fingernails, pushes her state-mandated store, and then finishes off with an internet recipe story about how her gramgram was fleeing the war and had to knit jasmine stitch backwards to survive......before fucking up the stitch and never editing that part out. But it's ok because her hands were in the way the whole time anyway."

    But I think you've found the only thing that has me beat.

    I will at least use this time to implore any knitting/crochet peeps on the fediverse that if you or someone you love is uploading how-to videos anywhere on the web.....SHOW ME THE DAMN STITCH SO I CAN LEAVE. I HAVE PROJECTS, I DO NOT CARE.

    alexblock,
    @alexblock@mstdn.ca avatar

    @Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 I need a tutorial to show me how you added bolded text to your post!

    Nepenthe, (edited )
    Nepenthe avatar

    I assume it all works the same on mastodon, if it's showing up ok, so:

    Bold is 2 asterisks on either side
    like ** this **

    Italics is either one asterisk on each side like * this * or underscores _ like this _ (does this show up italicized for you?)

    • Strikethrough is ~~ two tildes ~~ and looks like this

    Obviously just remove the spaces in between the symbols and letters, because I can't figure out yet how to stop markdown from working on here any other way, in order to depict it precisely

    alexblock,
    @alexblock@mstdn.ca avatar

    @Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 Thanks for the tips, handy to know!

    webhat,
    @webhat@infosec.exchange avatar

    @Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @alexblock bold italic strikethrough

    Does this look MD to you?

    spinni81,
    @spinni81@mastodon.social avatar

    @Nepenthe The only thing worse are patterns with only a video and no written instructions or charts (I love charts, much easier to read than text).

    I actually learned to knit with YT but everything else I want it in writing or charted.

    FanCityKnits,
    @FanCityKnits@troet.cafe avatar

    @spinni81 @Nepenthe patterns that are only video are a thing?

    And here I'm bitching about overly wordy patterns. At least it's easy to skim over text to find the relevant parts.

    I really can't see why it worked make sense to make a whole pattern a video.

    spinni81,
    @spinni81@mastodon.social avatar

    @FanCityKnits @Nepenthe Unfortunately, yes, there are. I don't come across them often because I mostly search for patterns on Rav but I've seen them there too. To be fair, though, there is a substantial number of crafters (mostly crochet) who prefer videos because they can't read charts and don't understand written instructions. For them YT is crafting heaven.

    acmeworks,
    @acmeworks@social.tchncs.de avatar

    @Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 Haha, I'm tempted to turn that whole thread into a piece of music with "I HAVE PROJECTS I DO NOT CARE" as the chorus. (I'm hearing it as some sort of electronic hardcore punk.)

    Nepenthe,
    Nepenthe avatar

    If you can pull it off, you have my blessing. Better post it when you're done, though.

    tsherrygeo,
    @tsherrygeo@mastodon.radio avatar

    @Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 that's why I made a 2-minute how to series for the FT-60r. Each video has to show how to do something on the radio in 2 minutes or less.

    swan_pr,
    swan_pr avatar

    I'll usually go with the length of the video in cases like this. Anything above 5 minutes is a red flag!

    4am,
    @4am@lemmy.world avatar

    YT algorithm favors videos that are at least 10 minutes (they fit more ads in) so those get recommended more. As a result, runtimes get padded with fluff so you get recommended to more viewers.

    kelvin0mql,
    @kelvin0mql@mastodon.hams.social avatar

    @4am @swan_pr
    Except now they're also pushing shorts (which is so stupid).

    flipthetube,

    That’s disgusting.

    I feel like relying on the algorithms completely misses the human elements.

    If I need an answer to something, I want my top results to be short and sweet. If I want a documentary or dj set, I don’t want a 3-10 minute version.

    AT1ST,
    @AT1ST@mstdn.ca avatar

    @4am @swan_pr It'd be nice if they do that padding at the end, not the beginning.

    codefolio,
    @codefolio@ruby.social avatar

    @4am @swan_pr And it's much harder to sell ads on text instructions 😞

    The ad-driven nature of the internet means we get that instead of what we want.

    keith,

    @codefolio @4am @swan_pr which is fine, if people want to get paid for providing tutorials or instructions, then that's good for them, if advertising is the mechanism to allow that, then so be it.

    codefolio,
    @codefolio@ruby.social avatar

    @keith @4am @swan_pr

    It's still hard that it cuts off the early internet. Ads driven by search engines means SEO, which mean making it very hard to find the kind of instructions you can't sell ads on.

    It's understandable that people write what they can get paid for. It's hard that the early Internet methods of doing this are now effectively dead, with no replacement.

    Tooden,
    @Tooden@aus.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • codefolio,
    @codefolio@ruby.social avatar

    @Tooden @keith @4am @swan_pr

    Unfortunately, no. The answer to "ads drive off good content with ad-friendly content" is not going to be more ad-friendly content.

    That's already driven the payments for ads down well below liveable levels. Making the content more cheaply is only going to increase that trend.

    You can still make content better than what makes sense for ad-supported. But it's going to be buried even deeper in the ad-ecosystem deluge, so it won't really be findable.

    lazysupper,
    @lazysupper@famichiki.jp avatar

    @keith @codefolio @4am @swan_pr people should get paid for their efforts, but advertising and algorithms negatively impact the quality of what they produce.

    wladimirfischer,

    @4am @swan_pr :masto_flushed:

    fasnix,

    deleted_by_author

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  • swan_pr,
    swan_pr avatar

    Of course, it all depends on the context. A tutorial for a specific knitting stitch can be done in under 5 minutes, other stuff not so much! There was also an interesting thread somewhere yesterday asking why don't people use their subscription feed on YT and the answers were a good representation of the user base here, ie: most do use it and avoid the algo at all costs! So I think we're all on the same page here, we search and use YT in a way that is most efficient but not the most common :)

    TorbenI,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Nepenthe,
    Nepenthe avatar

    You asked for doughy buns, you got doughy buns

    Nepenthe,
    Nepenthe avatar

    I still remember a video I found a year ago that was just barely over a whole minute. It was a guy doing one single really clear cable stitch in complete silence, and then the video cuts out.

    I do not know who they are, but I will vouch for that man before god.

    Doing a cursory search to see if I can find it again, the second video suggested to me is 26:44 long.

    swan_pr,
    swan_pr avatar

    It probably disappeared into the ether because it was too short or lacked a backdrop of dried flowers and a cup of tea.

    jeroenvanbergen,
    @jeroenvanbergen@mstdn.social avatar

    @Nepenthe @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @swan_pr some procedures are easier to understand when you see how it is done. Like changing the battery in the key of a car.

    flopperdog,

    @swan_pr @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @Nepenthe
    A five minute video is the WORST because it's going to be four minutes of branding, then 12 seconds of them showing me where in the menu the option I need was buried, then 48 seconds of Don't Forget To Like And Subscribe Kay Thanks Bye!

    2CB,
    @2CB@urbanists.social avatar

    @swan_pr @Provider @bstix @Anders429 @Nepenthe
    I generally don't view them all, just keep searching for a text-only explanation. Even those have a lot of blabbity blab to scroll past.
    If I DO launch a vid, i jump through hoping to find the worthwhile part.

    artcollisions,
    @artcollisions@vis.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Nepenthe,
    Nepenthe avatar

    Ok, explain. Link me. I've been turning this over in my head. I cannot fathom what "fabric artist trading card" could possibly be

    scottcain,
    @scottcain@genomic.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider I can’t see any of the responses (must be a mastodon thing) but I can tell you that this not the first time I’ve seen this complaint and it has had an impact: I had several tutorials to produce this summer and planned on doing them as videos. As the summer approached I saw comments like this and switched to blog posts instead. So, I just wanted to let you know you’re not shouting into the void.

    bstix,

    I can’t see any of the responses (must be a mastodon thing)

    This explains a lot. Most of the replies to this comment here on Lemmy are from Mastodon users stating the same thing about video monetization.

    There’s a few good comments from people who actually do need video tutorials for crafting, sports and DIY, or from being dyslexic, but most don’t like the YouTube format.

    One big hurdle for written blogs is to attract readers when Googles search engine has a preference for videos that makes them more money.

    typographica,
    @typographica@typo.social avatar

    @bstix It’s that writing doesn’t earn money like YT does. :(

    StewartLynch, (edited )
    @StewartLynch@iosdev.space avatar

    @typographica @bstix One does not earn much money from YouTube videos at all. Those of us that do YouTube videos don’t do it for the money. We do it because there are a lot of people who prefer videos over written. This is not right or wrong. People learn in different ways. There is lots of great written content in the Swift world. It is just not as easy to search for as a YouTube video is, but I have no problem finding what I want if I am looking for written content..

    gaydarless,

    YES, this is such a peeve for me!!! I’ve developed an aversion to viewing video content unless it’s for something I truly need to see done. And even then, I’m more likely to check wikihow and endure their gifs than I am to watch someone’s video. It’s just so overdone.

    Metamere,
    @Metamere@genart.social avatar

    @bstix Sometimes it really is easier to show than to tell. Video tutorials make a lot of sense for navigating complex bike maintenance procedures. Much easier than reading the documentation provided by SRAM, for example.

    isagalaev,
    @isagalaev@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider writing a blog post doesn't pay writer's bills, YouTube does. Most people who can afford blogging for free are busy. So most blogging now happens on YouTube, where creators can actually make some non-trivial money. It sucks but us geeks seem to have given up on inventing a good way to pay authors.

    xorn,
    @xorn@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider A 3 minute video where someone shows you how to change your car's headlights does tend to be better than a text description.

    But it's no longer a 3 minute video. It's 25 minutes with a 5 minute sponsor segment, 15 minutes of faffing about, 3 minutes to plug pateron, 1 minute of intro and outro, and then 1 minute where they show the changing of the lightbulb but they cut away to a wide shot so the host can be shown clowning around and you can't tell what he did.

    stphrolland,

    @xorn @bstix @Provider

    I think you may have forgotten the 1 minute part advertising other of their videos that they have done and are really proud of, some of which much probably deserve your attention and time and +1 and subscribe ;-)

    archeokluit,
    @archeokluit@mastodon.chasalin.nl avatar

    @xorn @bstix @Provider ueah, it depends on what you are looking for. I mostly like a combination of the two: a good description, followed by a clear video, that shows it.
    Let me read what I have to do, before or after the tutorial. And make it short, skip the tales about your uncle doing it wrong all the time, or why you are so good at this or whatever story you want to tell.

    bobthomson70,
    @bobthomson70@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix soon will be very hard to find written ones that aren’t done by AI and full of dubious info.

    Setok,
    @Setok@attractive.space avatar

    @bstix damn, I thought I was alone with this. It’s incredibly frustrating that everything is a bloody YouTube. My theory is that people dream of those €€€s coming in from viewers.

    foolishowl,
    @foolishowl@social.coop avatar

    @bstix @Provider I was trying to work through an online class on Python, and every hour video included ten minutes of encouraging the viewer to keep at it, and five minutes of lame puns. The actual instruction was fine, but text would have been much easier.

    jstevenyork,
    @jstevenyork@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider I was one of the guys who used to write those, for Microsoft and others. I was at Microsoft when the boom dropped and most and most written documentation projects in favor of minimal on line help files and CBT (pre-video scripted feature demonstrations. The project (the Word for Windows technical manual) was shuffled to Microsoft Press, which didn't want it, leaving me in the middle. Fun.

    KaraLG84,
    @KaraLG84@dragonscave.space avatar

    @bstix Yes. Also when you're blind, software tutorials in particular are either 15 minutes of nothing but music, or someone going "to do x thing, all you need to do is click this button, drag this slider to here, click this until it says this, type this into there, and you're done."

    sortius,
    @sortius@mstdn.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider I don't mind some video tutorials. When you're learning a specific technique or it's a more thinky thing, sure. When I'm trying to configure a device/program, or doing builds for characters in a game, yeh, it's bloody annoying.

    I'm just thankful the cooking world still relies on written recipes. To the point that almost all recipe articles have a "jump to recipe" button these days. Hell, any video of a recipe worth its salt has a link to a written recipe 😆

    MrF,
    @MrF@podvibes.co avatar

    @sortius @bstix @Provider I stumbled upon the "original" recipe for Fettuccine Alfredo a week or two ago. It was pages of exposition about the history of the dish, and then the recipe. First, ingredients: pasta, parmesan, butter.

    I didn't read past that. I don't need 20 pages of exposition and 2 pages of recipe for pasta, parmesan, and butter. Just tell me pasta, parmesan, and butter, and I got it from there. Four words and a couple commas. That's it.

    sortius,
    @sortius@mstdn.social avatar

    @MrF for me the first hit is Recipe Tin Eats, it has a short article before the recipe, and a button at the top to jump to the recipe 🤷

    Chancerubbage,
    @Chancerubbage@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @WideAperture

    It has always been an issue for published tech writing, that it is often obsolete by the time it hits the shelf.

    But the bigger problem is that developers began to nurture an ‘oh, they’ll figure it out’ attitude and stopped thinking of instructions as necessary.

    My biggest issue is interfaces have become some international secret code of mystery glyphs hiding functions several levels down in unexpected corners.

    bstix,

    I mean written on a webpage, not published in book. The early Internet had lots of pages where people would write tutorials about their hobbies and tech instead of filming themselves mumbling into a headset.

    malin,
    @malin@dice.camp avatar

    @bstix Yea, searching is basically slow, and unsearchable.

    However, a proper setup tutorial has the virtue of being complete. People will typically forget to write 'import random' in their python docs, or 'systemctl restart transmission', because they think it's obvious.

    With video tutorials, you get the whole thing, and you can literally see where you're deviating from the script.

    Of course that's possible with written text, but I seldom find it.

    rrwo,

    @bstix @Provider

    They're awful if you are looking for something that requires you to type commands into a keyboard or code into an editor.

    The video window needs to be large enough to read it, and even then, you can't copy/paste anything from a video.

    aapis,
    @aapis@mastodon.world avatar

    @bstix @Provider I’ve been a programmer for over a decade. I inevitably spend part of every day searching the web for very specific or very general problems. Not once have I watched a video to find those answers. There is nothing more boring than watching someone else write a todo list app (seriously, stop making these) for exactly 10:01 minutes.

    mansr,
    @mansr@society.oftrolls.com avatar

    @bstix @Provider Not hard to do, but hard to monetise.

    elkepattyn,

    @bstix @Provider hear hear. Fucking video tutorials... they always skip over the one tiny thing you need to know ...

    shadyspotlight,

    @bstix @Provider it drives me insane that I can't type text into a box and have an article come back to me. I've found videos that explained a thing beautifully, and then I can never find it again because the phrase I remember wasn't in the tags.

    Mechanismatic,
    @Mechanismatic@lemmy.ml avatar

    Video title: “How to unlock the demon door on the fourth level of Demon Smasher Elite”

    “Hello, video game fans! Don’t forget to like and subscribe! Last week I posted a video that isn’t relevant to this video, but I need to drag out the time on this one to game the algorithm, so I’m going to rehash and plug that video. I’m going to shout out to my Patreon subscribers with ridiculous usernames I won’t pronounce well. Now let’s get to the part you’ve waiting for: I’m going to play through the entire thirty minutes worth of level four before you get to the demon door and I will stop to make useless commentary on the bad guys you encounter. Okay, now you’ve skipped forward to what looks like the area before the demon door part of the stage, but I’m going to talk about some unrelated anecdote about this game or maybe the game devs, and then plug my Patreon account and mention a completely different game that I’ll be streaming next. Oh and here’s the five seconds of the video you wanted to see when I tell you to click the right mouse button on the hidden lever next to the demon door in order to open it, except you aren’t seeing it because you skipped forward too far and gave up. Don’t forget to like and subscribe! This video has been brought to you by Nord VPN.”

    Nepenthe,
    Nepenthe avatar

    Now let’s get to the part you’ve waiting for: I’m going to play through the entire thirty minutes worth of level four before you get to the demon door and I will stop to make useless commentary on the bad guys you encounter.

    About a month ago, I'd gotten back to replaying Suikoden Tactics, and there's this whole quest-accepting mechanic that's the easiest way to rack up skill points. But one of them is a series of "go get X out of the murder death ruins for me."

    That place is pure ass and permadeath is a thing, so I'm not just going to go jaunting down to the final floor because I'm bored. And for the life of me, I could not remember which floor whatever item was even on in order to know whether it was worth trying for right now.

    This game is old enough that there are almost no discussions about it. I'm rooting through abandoned forums from 2005 looking for gems. God bless forums from 2005 btw.

    Somehow, there is a single video on this subject. It is a series of videos as the youtuber fights through the entire dungeon in one go. There is commentary. There are no timestamps. He does not split the videos according to floor. The information I'm looking for is somewhere in here, but I have zero guarantee he's even treasure hunting, so he may not mention it.

    I could have cried.

    cowvin,
    @cowvin@retro.pizza avatar

    @bstix @Provider I read considerably faster than people talk, so written information is a lot faster for me to get. Written tutorials are way better too because you can easily re-read difficult parts.

    blindbat84,

    @bstix The ones that annoy me are the youTube videos that are text on the video but just a music overlay... no verbal instructions at all and since Ic an't see the video period it is useless to me.

    Breefolk,

    @bstix @Provider Same. I hate video tutorials. I play a lot of video games and sometimes I need to look something up, which sometimes means I get lucky and someone has written a decent walkthrough down, but often times means I have to start and stop a damn video over and over and over to get the information at the pace I need.

    Lolors17,
    @Lolors17@feddit.de avatar

    This is one oft the longest Threads I’ve eher Seen in lemmy.

    bstix,

    Yes. Unfortunately many comments are the same, because the mastodon users can’t see each others replies. This comment somehow got trendy over there.

    My inbox has about 200 replies telling me about video monetization and 100 just tagging my username.

    loudfpv,

    @bstix
    And wondering why you need X or Y that doesnt relate to what youre doing only to find out it was a commercial 🙃
    @Provider @rhinocratic

    nazokiyoubinbou,
    @nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider oh god I hate it when I try to look something up and the only thing I can find is some awkward person going "so uh, you uh, click on this and then, uh, type uh that." Like why can't they just type somewhere in a blog or forum or something "type X in a console"?

    george,
    @george@a2mi.social avatar

    @bstix I agree, but note that YouTube pays people who create popular tutorials, something that was never as lucrative for people writing

    dl2jml,
    @dl2jml@mastodon.radio avatar

    @bstix @george Most YouTubers are never paid. It's a rigged game and the only party laughing all the way to the bank is alphabet, youtube and google's parent company,

    jake4480,
    @jake4480@c.im avatar

    @dl2jml @bstix @george yeah, I was looking for the comment about YouTubers trying to get clout, attention, etc - the big YouTube "influencer" culture that is just 🤮 desperately trying to get views, likes, and HIT THAT SUBCRIBE BELL/BUTTON

    DarthYoshiBoy,
    DarthYoshiBoy avatar

    1996 is on the latter end of what I consider the early internet, but I really miss the Video Game FAQ Archive (GameFAQs) which was murdered by a thousand cuts culminating in the death of the gamefaqs.com domain. FAQs used to be so good, these days the same information is dispersed over 50 pages of an HTML "guide" that is more ads than information, and often for less complete information, if it's not just a YouTube video that's even worse and shows you things but doesn't explain them at all.

    flameeyes,
    @flameeyes@mastodon.social avatar
    mikemathia,
    @mikemathia@ioc.exchange avatar

    @bstix @Provider

    I'm with ya here. I should have the option to, not HAVE to, watch a video on something. I'd rather skim text.

    tinebeest,
    @tinebeest@mstdn.social avatar

    @bstix couldn’t agree more!

    Most of my students preferred video, even if with very few exceptions slides + text was better for them (for the stuff we did).

    Also good video takes forever to make, good text+image tutorials slightly less forever but the search is much easier!

    damianogerli,
    @damianogerli@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix if people don't read articles, more than "hard", writing has become not sustainable.

    reddog,

    @bstix @Provider Trying to copy snippets of code to try / adapt out of the video sucks as well. I often don't need/want to download an entire sample project from a link in the description.
    Plus, given time constraints, I occasionally try to grab a few moments for tutorials while hanging out with family, sitting at a restaurant, or whatever else, so I'd have to watch videos muted as well.
    Definitely always look for written form.

    gamesbymanuel,
    @gamesbymanuel@peoplemaking.games avatar

    @bstix
    @Provider @bursaar Agreed! There's no CTRL+F on a video, either!

    patpro,
    @patpro@mastodon.green avatar
    palhargitai,

    @bstix @Provider I’m dyslexic and even I can’t stand these Youtube tutorials. The irony is probably that the script they write to make said tutorial is likely many times more useful than the tutorial itself, just because it’s a video…

    cynblogger,
    @cynblogger@sfba.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider
    Many YouTube tutorial videos include the transcript in the “comment” or “description” areas of the video. (I agree with you.) Reddit is also a good source for this kind of info.

    TeaKayB,
    @TeaKayB@mathstodon.xyz avatar

    @bstix

    YES. And when you find a written version you have to scroll past a mile of backstory to get to the point.

    Jgmeadows,
    @Jgmeadows@mstdn.ca avatar

    @bstix @Provider Amen!!!!

    richieadler,

    The worst are the videos that are little more than a Windows desktop and a syntesized voice of a tutorial that could be written. Additional negative points for instructions writen on Notepad on the screen on that video.

    signalthirteen,
    @signalthirteen@mstdn.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider I'm not sure if it's my neural divergence, but I actually find YouTube demos/tutorials quite intimidating. I will always pick a written one if I can find it.

    dahukanna,
    @dahukanna@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider @benjiweber

    You also can’t “copy and paste” code from their video screen.

    glyph,
    @glyph@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider @gvwilson writing is as hard as it ever was, but monetization of ad-hoc tutorial content is far easier and more lucrative on youtube. People are literally being paid to pollute your search results with video.

    I’m actually optimistic; I think eventually youtube will face too much flak for this kind of garbage, it’ll start affecting viewership, they’ll tweak the algorithm or the partner program to punish bad tutorials and there’ll be a renaissance of the written stuff.

    glyph,
    @glyph@mastodon.social avatar

    @bstix @Provider @gvwilson It’s even still out there if you can make it past the first page of results, usually. And it’s not all hobby labors of love. Polygon still published text guides for everything, for example.

    Mikal,
    @Mikal@sfba.social avatar

    @bstix

    OMFG this so much. Especially since most tutorials are ponderously slow and tedious. At the other extreme, are the ones with no subtitles and no sound where you are expected to follow a cursor flying around the screen clicking on things and are supposed to understand what happens. Those in particular should die in a fire.

    loke,
    @loke@functional.cafe avatar

    @bstix @Provider Even better. 99% of the ones you do find are LLM generated nonsense.

    christianschwaegerl,
    @christianschwaegerl@mastodon.social avatar
    dbc3,
    @dbc3@mastodon.world avatar

    @bstix everyone wants to be a movie star

    DrTautology, in Why are folks so anti-capitalist?

    The income gap between executive and median salary employees is around 32,000%. I guess the question is, what planet do you live on where a system that allows for this kind of inequity is okay?

    relative_iterator,
    @relative_iterator@sh.itjust.works avatar

    This any many other issues with capitalism could be solved with better legislation and regulations.

    Cryst,

    Which is controlled by those with capital.

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    The problem is getting and keeping people in power who actually want to reign in capitalism.

    jerrimu,

    But now in almost every country, the capitalists are the ones making regulations. They’re not going to do it to themselves.

    Devi,

    But then that's not capitalism. Capitalism is making as much money as possible unrestricted as much as possible. If you start doing things like putting a maximum wage in, or taxing the highest earners and giving back to the lowest, that's socialism.

    Turkey_Titty_city,

    There are countries with way better CEO to work pay ratios. But in the USA we act like it's totally normal to have these huge wealth gaps, when in reality they are recent phenonemon and the only other era they were repeated was the gilded age which resulted in a decades long depression that was only ended by a world war.

    PyroNeurosis,
    @PyroNeurosis@lemmy.world avatar

    So you’re telling me i need to store a lot of canned beans in a nearby cave system?

    gigachad,

    A CEO earns 354x the income of a normal worker in the US. It’s really insane what happens over there. I’m really glad a CEO in Germany only earns 154x the income of a normal worker, much more fair over here!

    I’m kidding, we are all fucked. US citizen say a ratio 6.7 would be justified, Germans say 6.3.

    MomoTimeToDie,

    Why should I give a fuck about inequity?

    Niello,

    Yes, why the fuxk should you care about making society better when you live in one. Might as well go live in a jungle or something so you don’t get to benefit from improvements.

    kimli, in Tips for a new user!

    This is not complete by any means but this is what I did (recently):

    • Explore around: Currently there's an influx of new user and communities (subreddits) being created. Total users has doubled (give it take) in 10 days. Active monthly users has increased 6x in the same 10 days
    • Try to engage: For many (most?) of us this is a brand new place. Not so long ago it felt rather quiet (I remember taking a look a few months back and thinking "It's a cool idea but there's not enough content") As a forever lurker, this has been easier said than done. The vibe I get (YMMV) is from early Slashdot / Slashdot clones, only much more vibrant. I haven't seen something similar in a really long time
    • Missing content? Either you wait (keep exploring) or become proactive. Even if you intend to hand it over down the line, create/start building any community you are missing. For those that are joining after you, it's reassuring having a moment of "Hey, here there's also interest in $RANDOM_THING"
    • Be aware of size: Recently I was taking about this. Some "not so large subreddits " have 10x users subscribed as users in the whole "lemmyverse"? "lemmy ecosystem"? (I'm still not sure how it's named)
    • The system is quite new and has had a sudden explosion in popularity. Be prepared to see some rough edges here and there.

    A couple of things that might be odd to get your head around:

    • Instances: Although you can think of instances as a "whole reddit" they all work together. Both of us are on different instances and I'm commenting on your post. I'm not even sure without scrolling on which server resides the post
    • Fediverse: The collaboration is not constrained to instances alone. I was engaging (from Lemmy) with a post originating on a different platform (kbin) and checking how it looks on a third platform (Mastodon). The analogy might be bad, but think of commenting from Reddit on a post originated on digg and checking how you see/comment on it from Twitter.

    But the most important part, enjoy your time here

    Saturdaycat,
    Saturdaycat avatar

    Hello! Should I be posting threads or micro blogs? I am not sure which is used for what purpose

    SpacemanSpiff,
    SpacemanSpiff avatar

    You can do either. Think of threads as Reddit posts, with threaded replies etc (kbin, lemmy). Think of posts as Twitter tweets (Mastodon), replies are @ a user.

    lisboneye,
    lisboneye avatar

    Do you know how I can save a thread? In Reddit I’d save a post or a reply that has some useful info. With all these tutorials I’d like to have them saved (threads and replies).

    gus,